For me, the most interesting part of this deal isn't Brett Favre, but Chad Pennington. There is exactly one way that the Brett Favre trade could go bad for Green Bay--if Pennington gets traded, or picked up by, the Vikings. That will be a disaster for Green Bay, because the Vikings--with Pennington--will likely stomp a mudhole in that division, and much of the NFC (Cowboys included). Here is my case for Pennington, courtesy of CHFF:
...he boasts the 7th best passer rating in NFL history (88.89) and the No. 5 mark among active players. Believe it or not, Pennington had a better career passer rating than Tom Brady heading into the 2007 season.Of course all of that rests on Pennington not getting hurt. Yeah, that's a big qualifier hanging out there.Pennington is also the most accurate passer in league history, with a record 65.61 career completion percentage. Hard to believe, considering he puts up so many parabolas that the networks want to hire him as a sideline sound man following his next rotator cuff injury in October.And the lack of a laser, rocket arm is compounded by the quality of the offensive talent around him, which has never been spectacular.But proof of Pennington's proficiency is evidenced by the fortunes of the Jets when he plays and when he doesn't: Pennington has played in 12 or more games just three times in a season since replacing Vinny Testaverde in 2002. The Jets have made the playoffs all three of those seasons (2002, 2004, 2006). They failed to win even half their games every other season (2003, 2005, 2007).Head coach Eric Mangini was "Man-Genius" in his rookie season at the helm in 2006. Pennington, not so coincidentally, played every single game for the one and only time in his career that year. Mangini became a duplicitous rat turncoat in 2007 while his team struggled through a 4-12 sophomore campaign - and Pennington started just 8 games.
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Yes, but what about the real story? Will Favre allow his name to be put in nomination at the convention? That's what matters!
This deal SUCKS for the Jets. Brett Favre has had one good season out of his past 4. He's coming to a team late and getting acquainted with new receivers, coaches, and playbook. Now, granted, he's been doing this a long time, and I obviously could be completely wrong. I would just be willing to bet that Brett Favre will not be starting for the Jets by the end of the season. He might not even be on the roster.
Also, I'm not sure how this affects the cap, but the Jets would be crazy to trade Chad Pennington at this point. For a lot of the reasons that TC mentioned above.
This trade is great for the Jets if only because it allows them to divorce themselves from Chad Pennington. Pennington has a water pistol for an arm. His completion rate is so high because everything he throws is a lateral. See my take here: www.theeliotinside.com
I'm just wondering how Brett will handle the fishbowl that's New York. The attention he's getting now isn't universally positive, but it'll be nothing compared to what he'll be getting if the Jets - and thus by extension him - have a bad year. And by bad year, I mean not making the playoffs.
Short-term fix for the Jets to make sure they can field a decent team and maybe save Mangini's job in the process. They could end up in the exact same situation as the Packers in a year or two though, with Favre hovering on the brink of retirement and stifling the attempts to transition to a young new QB.
"Favre won't take them to the Super Bowl. But he might take them to the AFC championship--where he will promptly throw a 4th quarter pick."
I am SO &%$#@! sick of seeing and hearing from so-called "journalists" who harp on the interceptions thing with Favre. The guy threw the ball 8758 times and has ONLY 288 interceptions. If he threw the ball 4-5000 times you'd have an arguement. And the last interception against the Giants was a bad throw, but last I saw Favre doesn't play defense, Al Harris does and Burress made him look like a girl AND Favre doesn't run the ball Ryan Grant does and he didn't do it that day. The Giants just outplayed them that day.
If this were baseball and Favre had struck out 288 times, he'd be hailed as the greatest contact hitter of all time. Sit down and shut up.
Nah, I think this trade can go bad if we find out Aaron Rodgers is a terrible quarterback. My understanding is that no one really knows exactly how good or bad he'll be because he has exactly 15 seconds of NFL experience.
Also, I think the QB rating is overrated and I think completion percentage is a bit overrated. Thus, Pennington is pretty well rated by the media, Jets. Air it out, throw me some touchdowns, and open up that running game.
Sonny, I'm sorry, but you sound as though you are a bit delusional. But the past four seasons, Brett Favre's pick totals have been 21, 17, 29, 18, 15. He just hasn't been that good the past few years. Also, people aren't imagining that a lot of those picks have been VERY costly. A lot of them have come at times where Brett Favre is trying to win the game and tries to squeeze in pass he shouldn't have. As far as your following quote...
"If this were baseball and Favre had struck out 288 times, he'd be hailed as the greatest contact hitter of all time."
This is so dumb on so many levels, that I don't even know where to begin. No one is doubting Brett Favre's greatness, but your rant sounds incredibly uninformed.
@Sonny: Maybe if he wasn't leading in career interceptions, the joke would be harder to make. The New York game wasn't the only time he's forced a late game pass. If you want another specific example, look at the Eagles-Packers playoff game from a few years back. End of the game - overtime, if I'm not mistaken - he lofts up a pass that might as well have been thrown underhand. Safety fields it like a center fielder and sets up the game-winning field goal.
If this were baseball and Favre had struck out 288 times, he'd be hailed as the greatest contact hitter of all time. Sit down and shut up.
Huh? A lot of stats, when compared to a completely unrelated stat from a different sport, would be good in said sport. I'm not sure what to make of this argument. Anyways, it puts his interception rate at about average for NFL QBs. It's not awful, but it's worse than other star QBs.
I have to agree @Brent. Rodgers has been hurt in practically every game he has played. Wonder why the Pack burned two picks in the draft on QB talent? I was pretty sure Favre would come back to the Pack, so I am a little disappointed.
Now don't get me wrong, Rodgers does appear to have a lot of talent and potential and I will be cheering for him. He could even be great, but he is untested and so far injury-prone. GB is not mentally ready to have a QB miss one or more games a season :). Favre has been too good to us, especially in that regard.
No one disputes he's made the occasional bonehead throw, but the stats don't lie. He's obviously done a HELL of alot more during his career than that. Also, no-one has done more with less. Name ONE other player aside from Reggie White who will go into the Hall Of Fame along side him. I'll wait. Again 8758 with 288 picks, I'll say I'm VERY informed. It's a stat that doesn't hold up, just like the QB rating. And Stacey when you got nothing, don't call it "dumb" makes you sound like someone who's just watched their first football game. And that Eagle game, bonehead throw, absolutely...but what LEAD to that? Anyone remember the fourth and 23 throw McNabb made in a defense that looked as if it was watching the game on the scoreboard?
Woof.......
Sonny,
You are very, very silly. You are the one who sounds like you just started watching sports. Again, let me repeat your quote about strikeouts...
"If this were baseball and Favre had struck out 288 times, he'd be hailed as the greatest contact hitter of all time."
Read it again. How could someone possibly make this statement and expect to be taken seriously. And who cares what the Packers defense did to allow McNabb to convert that? That doesn't change the play that Favre made.
Also, I'd like to let it be known that I had the pleasure of watching Brett Favre throw 5 interceptions in a playoff game against my Rams. Yes, you read that correctly. 5 interceptions. But I'm sure you remember the game.
Listen, I don't have anything against Favre, and he's obviously one of the best ever, but you sound like you have a poster hanging over your bed.
I'd like to point out this quote as well...
"And Stacey when you got nothing, don't call it "dumb" makes you sound like someone who's just watched their first football game."
I don't even know what this means. Its certainly not coherent.
I'd like to let it be known that I had the pleasure of watching Brett Favre throw 5 interceptions in a playoff game against my Rams. Yes, you read that correctly. 5 interceptions.
I thought it was 6.
Damn, Mark, I think you're right. I went back and forth in my mind before I wrote that, but I thought there was no way that he threw 6. But he did. Maybe I just subconsciously didn't want to make Sonny feel worse.
Pennington isn't any better than Tarvaris Jackson for the Vikings.
He can't throw the deep ball, so defenses can play 9 men in the box and attack Adrian Peterson. The Vikings need a guy that can make defenses keep an extra defender deep.
Favre would have been perfect for that. Which is why the Packers traded him to the Jets instead of releasing him to choose a team for himself.
Sonny,
Here's how Favre compares to other big number QB's:
Player Int %
Marino 3.02
Elway 3.12
Montana 2.58
Young 2.58
Aikman 2.99
Bledsoe 3.07
Favre 3.29
McNabb 2.12
Manning 2.83
Brady 2.36
Favre's interception percentage is 20 percent higher than the average of the rest of the list and 5 percent higher than the worst. He has a reputation for throwing picks because he's earned it. Stacy's dead right.
Favre is certainly one of the great quarterbacks, but for a great quarterback he has a problem throwing interceptions. The other elite quarterbacks in the NFL throw more touchdowns per pick that Favre. It's one area that he's more average than great.
He's certainly threw some crucial interceptions and people remember those type of moments. Even if he had the same interceptions, but they hadn't happened at crucial times, we probably wouldn't talk about it that much. Regardless of that, it still stands that the stats support the observation that Favre's weakness as a QB is throwing too many picks.
I'm setting the over/under for Favre INTs vs. New England this season at 7.
I'll take the under; they'll take him out when the games become blowouts.
Hey, I'm psyched to see Favre start for the Jets. I'm a Dolphin season tix holder and at least this gives me something to look forward to seeing at our opener.
I'd take either Favre or Pennington on the Lions in a second. But I have to say watching the Jets last year, as accurate as Pennington is, they looked better with Kellen Clemens under center. Defenses need to respect the threat of the deep ball, otherwise they can stack the box, stuff the run and allow the types of short dump-offs that Pennington excels at, but ultimately lead to punts or field goals instead of touchdowns.
Cottchery is sweet, btw. Something tells me Favre is going to be dropping bombs to him all season. The Packers? 6-10, Brohm is starting by week 12.
Spottie,
Why do you assume Brohm is any better than Rodgers? Or are you assuming Rodgers is going to get hurt? I think Aaron Rodgers has as good a chance of starting in week 17 as Favre does.
New team, new teammates, new offense, old body. Favre's done.
Maybe I just subconsciously didn't want to make Sonny feel worse.
If it makes you feel any better, I was the 2002 Superbowl as a Pats fan. (NB - I don't know how this was supposed to make you feel better; I just like telling people that)
Geez, Mark, I was gonna say...how does that make me feel better? Now if you told me that you taped the Rams walk-thru the day before, and that was somehow the reason we lost, that might actually make me feel better. Because I still can't wrap my mind around that game. But please, let's not get into it. It might ruin my day.
I don't think Brohm is better necessarily. I just think Rodgers is set up to fail. The first pick he throws, the first game he loses, they will be all over him like a Cheesehead on a bratwurst. Meanwhile Favre will be slingin the ball around to both his receivers and the defense in New York, extending the Streak and frustrating Packers' fans who never wanted him gone. At least Brohm has a clean slate and reasonable expectations upon him.
You might be right. What's that they say? You don't want to be the guy to follow THE GUY. You want to be the guy to follow the guy who followed THE GUY. Something like that.
Retired players:
Marino
8358 attempts, 252 picks.
Favre has 35 more picks than Marino,
but threw the ball 400 more times than Marino!
Elway
7250 attempts, 226 picks.
Favre has 62 more picks than Elway,
but threw the ball 1508 more times than Elway!
Montana
5391 attempts, 139 picks.
Favre has 149 more picks than Montana,
but threw the ball 3367 more times than Montana!
Steve Young
4149 attempts, 107 picks.
Favre has 181 more picks than Young,
but threw the ball 4609 more times then Young!
Troy Aikman
4715 attempts, 141 picks.
Favre has 147 more picks than Aikman,
but threw the ball 4043 more times than Aikman!
Drew Bledsoe
6717 attempts, 206 picks.
Favre has 82 more picks then Bledsoe,
but threw the ball 2041 more times than Bledsoe!
My point is made! Favre threw the ball MANY more times as is evident above. So of course he'll have more picks. It's a BS stat that doesn't hold any real weight. People just harp on Favre for it. Every QB has made bonehead throws, Favre's were just more fun and frustrating to watch. But NO-ONE has done more with less. Take Aikman a "good" QB with a nice endzone touch that will have, when all is said and done...6-7 guys, not including himself that will eventually be in the Hall Of Fame from his championship days. As I said previously, Favre will not. Favre did not have the benefit of having a Rice or any "A" guys.
He made everybody better.
And STACEY.........I didn't appreciate the "dumb" crack from you, but my response was rude and for that I appologize.
No "A" guys except for Reggie White as I said earlier. Sterling Sharpe was headed that waymaybe, but we'll never know.
Well, Stacy, it really might make you feel better to know that I remain a Patriots fan and therefore suffered an even more extreme version of your experience with the Rams this February.
And I'll note that I kept saying during the two weeks after the conference championships that the situation reminded me an awful lot of 2002.
Well, Stacy, it really might make you feel better to know that I remain a Patriots fan and therefore suffered an even more extreme version of your experience with the Rams this February.
And I'll note that I kept saying during the two weeks after the conference championships that the situation reminded me an awful lot of 2002.
No "A" guys except for Reggie White as I said earlier. Sterling Sharpe was headed that waymaybe, but we'll never know.
Sonny, your point is not made.
Look at the percentages of the QBs you wrote down, don't just glance an eye at attempts and interceptions. SeanH was smart enough to note them for you. Favre has the highest interception % among the top QBs historically and currently.
I cannot believe you called someone "dumb" with the tripe that you're throwing out there. Favre quite clearly has a higher interception rate than his historical peers.
mark f,
Actually, that does make me feel quite a bit better. Thanks! But yeah, it did seem pretty similar. And then the oddsmakers went and made the line way bigger than it should have been, just like in '02.
Sonny,
No need to apologize. We're talking about sports. Nothing wrong with offending people a bit.
Riise.........get a clue..........
I didn't call anyone dumb, I was called dumb.
My point was made as to the fact that it is a BS statistic, useless....just like the QB ranking....and your post.....
I'm done on this board.
Some just don't get it.
Stacey........your sweet and knowledgeable....
Sonny,
Your point really is not made. In my previous comment the interception percentages are interceptions per pass attempt which corrects for the difference in pass attempts. Favre threw more picks per attempt than any of those QBs.
To put it more clearly, every time he attempted a pass Favre was 9% more likely to throw a pick than Marino, 5% more likely than Elway, 28% more likely than Montana or Young, 10% more likely than Aikman, 7% more likely than Bledsoe, and 55% more likely than the terribly underrated McNabb.
LOL, i love that Sonny peaces out just when it becomes clear as day that he doesn't wtf he's talking talking about.
Sonny,
I really do appreciate the compliments. But before this goes too far and we start setting up a lunch date, I should probably let you know that I'm a dude. But I guess that's why you accused me earlier of just watching my first game. Now if you're still interested in that lunch date...
SeanH,
Gotta agree about McNabb. Due to recent injuries and a couple down years, I think many people forget just how efficient of a QB he was. He was/is awesome.
As a Pats fan, I'm more than happy seeing an old has-been start for the Jets.
Stacy, I've got to say that not only was that a very, very bold statement you made there, but you are sorely mistaken and I've got to say probably don't know that much about fooball. By no means whatsoever does this deal SUCK for the Jets. This is the best thing that's happened to the Jets since then getting to the 1998 AFC championship on the shoulders of Vinny Interceptaverdae. Why in god's name would the hold on to Pennington and pay him $6 Million this year to sit on the bench for 16-plus games, especially when Brett Favre hasn't missed a game in 16 years!?!? He's one of (if not the most) durable olayers in NFL history. In fact, I bet Pennington has missed more games in the last 6 seasons than Brett Favre has in his entire life. Does it make sense to you to keep him around paying him a buttload of money for nothing? Let me answer that for you - NO. Not only does it not make sense financially, but you are obviously not a Jet fan if you think keeping him around is going to do any good. It's not even like he could mentor Favre, he's one of the greatest of all time. Pennington's stats are misleading - I would really like to know what percentage of those passes completed were under 20, screw it, under 15 yards, and if you've watched him in recent years you know he throws like a paraplegic. As much as I loved and (still) respect Chad as a man, a player, a hard-worker, and an intelligent guy, he has nothing left in the tank. And even though Favre is 38, he's got at least two, if not three, seasons left in him. Lest we forget he was second in the league in MVP voting last year. Watch the Jets win at least 10 games this year. Good luck haters, keep on hating.
Whatever, G, enjoy your pickup. I don't know why you would possibly think that Brett Favre has two or three years left in him. They were writing him off a few years ago. Last season was the first good season he's had in four seasons. Of course what I said was bold, I refuse to get all over Favre's cock like the rest of the idiots. Come back on here in November when he's no longer starting for the Jets.
I do find if funny that you think me not liking the pickup somehow makes me a 'hater.' Typical of New York fans. I have nothing against the Jets, I just think Favre is done. Physically, but more importantly, mentally. The dude's become a head-case. Who else would enjoy ruining their reputation like this?
"Why in god's name would the hold on to Pennington and pay him $6 Million this year to sit on the bench for 16-plus games, especially when Brett Favre hasn't missed a game in 16 years!?!"
Hey, idiot, if you read what I actually wrote, I claimed to not have any idea how this affected their cap. I'm just saying, you guys are gonna suck this year. Trade him, and watch Favre realize he made a terrible mistake, and quit.
I do think its cute that you respect Chad(you're on a first name basis, right?) as a man.
Stacy, I've got to say that not only was that a very, very bold statement you made there, but you are sorely mistaken and I've got to say probably don't know that much about fooball. By no means whatsoever does this deal SUCK for the Jets. This is the best thing that's happened to the Jets since then getting to the 1998 AFC championship on the shoulders of Vinny Interceptaverdae. Why in god's name would the hold on to Pennington and pay him $6 Million this year to sit on the bench for 16-plus games, especially when Brett Favre hasn't missed a game in 16 years!?!? He's one of (if not the most) durable olayers in NFL history. In fact, I bet Pennington has missed more games in the last 6 seasons than Brett Favre has in his entire life. Does it make sense to you to keep him around paying him a buttload of money for nothing? Let me answer that for you - NO. Not only does it not make sense financially, but you are obviously not a Jet fan if you think keeping him around is going to do any good. It's not even like he could mentor Favre, he's one of the greatest of all time. Pennington's stats are misleading - I would really like to know what percentage of those passes completed were under 20, screw it, under 15 yards, and if you've watched him in recent years you know he throws like a paraplegic. As much as I loved and (still) respect Chad as a man, a player, a hard-worker, and an intelligent guy, he has nothing left in the tank. And even though Favre is 38, he's got at least two, if not three, seasons left in him. Lest we forget he was second in the league in MVP voting last year. Watch the Jets win at least 10 games this year. Good luck haters, keep on hating.
Stacy, I've got to say that not only was that a very, very bold statement you made there, but you are sorely mistaken and I've got to say probably don't know that much about fooball. By no means whatsoever does this deal SUCK for the Jets. This is the best thing that's happened to the Jets since then getting to the 1998 AFC championship on the shoulders of Vinny Interceptaverdae. Why in god's name would the hold on to Pennington and pay him $6 Million this year to sit on the bench for 16-plus games, especially when Brett Favre hasn't missed a game in 16 years!?!? He's one of (if not the most) durable olayers in NFL history. In fact, I bet Pennington has missed more games in the last 6 seasons than Brett Favre has in his entire life. Does it make sense to you to keep him around paying him a buttload of money for nothing? Let me answer that for you - NO. Not only does it not make sense financially, but you are obviously not a Jet fan if you think keeping him around is going to do any good. It's not even like he could mentor Favre, he's one of the greatest of all time. Pennington's stats are misleading - I would really like to know what percentage of those passes completed were under 20, screw it, under 15 yards, and if you've watched him in recent years you know he throws like a paraplegic. As much as I loved and (still) respect Chad as a man, a player, a hard-worker, and an intelligent guy, he has nothing left in the tank. And even though Favre is 38, he's got at least two, if not three, seasons left in him. Lest we forget he was second in the league in MVP voting last year. Watch the Jets win at least 10 games this year. Good luck haters, keep on hating.
Living in Wisconsin and being a Packer fan, by marriage, I have watched Packer football for some 30 odd years. Yes, I have even seen a few games at Lambeau. I wish Brett Favre only the best as the starting QB for the Jets. The Packer organization is in the wrong by releasing Favre. They screwed up royally. This can only be a good thing for the Jets. Favre plays football with raw emotion, plain & simple. He is a once in lifetime kind of athlete. Anyone questioning his abilities must not truly understand him and/or has never OBSERVED him playing the game, up close & personal! I will be watching Favre's Jets this year...
I think Farve is done. Someone was reporting recently that in the 2007 offseason Farve worked with trainers to keep in shape and keep his timing. He had not done that in the previous 3 offseasons. The result of his hard work was clearly evident in his great performance last year. In the 3 years before that he had more INTs than TDs. Without having worked out all spring, and being on a new team with new players, I expect Farve to revert to the player he was prior to 2007.
I dont' think Pennington would do much to help the Vikings. They invested in Bernard Berrian to stretch the field for AP. Berrian is not a possession receiver or a guy who will go across the middle. Pennington makes Berrian ineffective and allows defenses to crowd the box.
As a Dolphins fan, I firmly believe that NY Jets fans are the most ignorant fans of any team in any sport. G reinforces that belief.
In response to directconnect.com's:
"Pennington isn't any better than Tarvaris Jackson for the Vikings.
He can't throw the deep ball, so defenses can play 9 men in the box and attack Adrian Peterson. The Vikings need a guy that can make defenses keep an extra defender deep."
There is one thing about Chad that everyone is overlooking (sorry if someone mentioned this). BUT he runs the PLAY ACTION better than any quarterback in the league. that is a fact. watch what he did with curtis martin. it wasn't merely curtis martin who won the games, although it wouldn't have happened without him, but chad penneington sells the play action like no other. there are countless times watching him where you as the viewer are frozen, just like the defense, uncertain whether he's really handed it off or just tucked it behind his leg. i love chad, with all his weaknesses, and many claims about his arm and those stats being overrated are true. but you can't deny that for the vikings he would force the defense to keep men back because w/ adrian peterson he will beat them so damn bad with the play action.
Sonny I agree with you. Of course a persons interception percentage will be higher when they throw a ton of more passes than others. And for you people who keep saying that Bretts has a higher rating than other current qbs, here's a question for you. How many years have they played compared to Brett? You cant compare his interception percentage of 16 years to a twirp like Brady whos been playing for what 8 years. Really? Plus, Brady and Manning (who I think will be the greatest qb ever) have brick walls to hide behind. Of course when the defense is pressuring and your offensive line crumbles you scramble to make plays.
To put it more clearly, every time he attempted a pass Favre was 9% more likely to throw a pick than Marino, 5% more likely than Elway, 28% more likely than Montana or Young, 10% more likely than Aikman, 7% more likely than Bledsoe, and 55% more likely than the terribly underrated McNabb.
As an Eagles fan, I can tell you that McNabb's low int% doesn't take in to account all the squirrelly sprints out of the box, often leading to lost yardage or, worse, turnovers.
He may fare better with that particular stat than Brady, but at least the latter has the presence of mind to take his lump and lay down on the ball. An int with a reasonable return is still usually less costly than a turnover behind the line of scrimmage.
Why are you people even putting Bledsoe into the mix?? Or even McNabb?? Yes McNabb has done some good things but nothing impressive, except for stop playing in the fourth of the super bowl. Bledsoe what a joke, want to throw Rick Myer in there too. What about Jim Kelly or Warrne Moon?? Unitas, Starr, etc... Why only are you comparing to who is playing now?? And for Sonny you want to prove your point. Take everyone and look at their stats at where they were at a median # of throws. That way you can stop whining about he threw more so that's why he has more. Stacey got nothing but love for ya.
Why are you people even putting Bledsoe into the mix?? Or even McNabb?? Yes McNabb has done some good things but nothing impressive, except for stop playing in the fourth of the super bowl. Bledsoe what a joke, want to throw Rick Myer in there too. What about Jim Kelly or Warrne Moon?? Unitas, Starr, etc... Why only are you comparing to who is playing now?? And for Sonny you want to prove your point. Take everyone and look at their stats at where they were at a median # of throws. That way you can stop whining about he threw more so that's why he has more. Stacey got nothing but love for ya.