It's amazing to me that this dude didn't know that a lot of military cats play D&D. I would estimate my old guild in WOW (Gnomeland Security for the win!) was about ten percent military. On another note,you like that Tucker's Kobolds reference, don't you. Once again to quote Ghostface--My remarkable armor is supreme.Yes, Mr. Goldfarb, I play Dungeons and Dragons. And I have, in my home, a very large box filled with medals and decorations that prove my service to this nation. Where were you, sir, when your country called? Oh yes, writing for the Weekly Standard.
While gaming geeks rallied around the flag.
« Randall Cunningham--The greatest player who never was | Main | McWhorter v. Loury on Obama » Greatest PWNAGE of ALL TIME20 Aug 2008 05:29 pm
LOL! Courtesy of Hilzoy. Robert Mackey, who actually served in the military, sends Tucker's Kobolds after Michael "Uncle Tom of nerds" Goldfarb:
Comments (33)
D&D pretty much evolved out of military boardgames like Pegasus and First Battle that division and subordinate unit staffs played back in the early 80's. They were called gameboard exercises. People took them pretty seriously - they were a method of wargaming battle plans at a fairly tense point in the Cold War. who is this little dweeb to sniff at D&D? 
I wish Obama's surrogates had that guys wit and fearlessness.
Good thing you aren't prone to exaggeration.
I nearly snorked my drink at the Tuckers Kobolds reference. You, good sir, are old school, and I salute you.
I don't about all that D&D stuff... I'm much too manly and militaristic to have read the entire post... but any reference to Supreme Clientele must be conspicuously applauded.
I don't know about all that D&D stuff... I'm much too manly and militaristic to have read the entire post... but any reference to Supreme Clientele must be conspicuously applauded.
Hm... a guild named Gnomeland Security that has a high percentage of military personnel... I don't know how I never made this connection before! :)
Before I read that response i thought that Goldfarb's main thrust was about whether, given the evidence, it is appropriate to question McCain's account of his time as a POW, b/c you dont think hed make a good president. Obviously... I was being silly as then Goldfarb's comment would have NOTHING to do with what Ta did between 7 and 9 pm last night. (should not sound indignant, hope it came across)
I haven't thought of D&D for years but of all my high school D&D group, all bar one joined the army reserve and one is still serving as a special forces Lt Col - D&D doesn't necessarily select for fitness but the army can and does quite effectively give you that but as other commentators have suggested it does promote some quite militarily useful ways of thinking.
This is friggin awesome. I remember reading letters from WAY back in the day in Dragon magazine from military dudes who had big campaigns going...
Interesting on the WoW point. I played Horde and don't remember there being too many military guys. To go on a super nerdy tangent here, Gnomeland Security sounds like an Ally guild. Might it be that military guys are disinclined from joining the bad guys, i.e. Horde? You do see different types of people choosing Horde/Ally. Very few children on Horde. Just some food for thought.
It's all very good that patriotic Americans play D&D. I'm just not sure how that, you know, detracts from Goldfarb's point that the Andrew Sullivan led attack on McCain's Cross story has absolutely no backing in fact and that their original effort (the Solzhenitsyn angle) proved to be embarrassingly false. Now that D&D players everywhere have been avenged, can we get back to the inconvenient fact that the people who are attacking McCain's Cross story are simply political hacks who have no evidence or reason to call the story into question? But hey, you PWNED!!! (or however you spell it) Goldfarb so good for you!
"Now that D&D players everywhere have been avenged, can we get back to the inconvenient fact that the people who are attacking McCain's Cross story are simply political hacks who have no evidence or reason to call the story into question?" Uhm, no. Because it was never a topic over this way. D&D has been for some time. Scroll back through the archives. "But hey, you PWNED!!! (or however you spell it)" Indeed, he did. And for the record making fun of gamers is a bannable offense over in these parts. Get your jokes at the expense of the black, the gay, the women or "the disabled." We draw the line at the 20-sided dice, Drw. Or however you spell it.
Awesome post. Can you explain to Andrew that he (since he's blatantly someone who's never gamed--table top, video or otherwise) really should avoid l33t? He's been known to pwn people time and again, but it sounds rather awkward for him to refer to it as such.
It's all very good that patriotic Americans play D&D. I'm just not sure how that, you know, detracts from Goldfarb's point that the Andrew Sullivan led attack on McCain's Cross story has absolutely no backing in fact and that their original effort (the Solzhenitsyn angle) proved to be embarrassingly false. Now that D&D players everywhere have been avenged, can we get back to the inconvenient fact that the people who are attacking McCain's Cross story are simply political hacks who have no evidence or reason to call the story into question? But hey, you PWNED!!! (or however you spell it) Goldfarb so good for you!
Add me to the list of GIs that played the hell out of D&D back when I was a 31C/19D at Fort Polk and Fort Hood. It was an enormously popular pastime.
Add me to the list of GIs that played the hell out of D&D back when I was a 31C/19D at Fort Polk and Fort Hood. It was an enormously popular pastime.
I played Horde and don't remember there being too many military guys. Our Horde guild had quite a few military guys in it. To one up the nerdiness of you, I'd disagree that the Horde is necessarily the bad guys. The Allies certainly have done their fair share of evil over time.
For those D&D-ers out there who didn't read the title of Mackey's post, it's a classic:
There was actually a whole gaming con (in which D&D figured quite prominently) in Iraq for soldiers there a few years ago. It was called Ziggura-Con or something like that.
Wrong. Gary Gygax founded his company, TSR (Tactical Studies Rules), and published D&D in the early '70s. He acknowledged the classic '60s-era Avalon Hill games as a primary source for his basic gaming principles (separate from the fantasy world themes that came later). The AH games are worth tracking down; their catalog of historical game themes and subjects was really pretty sophisticated. --{snip}--
Our Horde guild had quite a few military guys in it. To one up the nerdiness of you, I'd disagree that the Horde is necessarily the bad guys. The Allies certainly have done their fair share of evil over time. Heck, the first big instance for Alliance players is a union-busting mission.
I thought the best PWNing of Goldfarb was Ace, who described Goldfarb as follows: Obviously this guy knows his way around a d20. He looks like the sort of guy most comfortable viewing the world over the top of a Dungeon Masters Screen. The sort of guy who carries 4d6 in his pocket "just in case." The sort of guy who still remembers the name of his Top Secret character ("Brock Cordite") and his weapon of choice (12mm gyrojet with plutonium "hot rounds"). http://ace.mu.nu/archives/271095.php Ace also got an apology out of Goldfarb, which (1) is very funny and (2) should really have defused the whole thing.
Wrong. Gary Gygax founded his company, TSR (Tactical Studies Rules), and published D&D in the early '70s. He acknowledged the classic '60s-era Avalon Hill games as a primary source for his basic gaming principles (separate from the fantasy world themes that came later). The AH games are worth tracking down; their catalog of historical game themes and subjects was really pretty sophisticated. --{snip}--
Really, greatest "PWNAGE"? Are you sure you want to set a precedent of granting a giant trump card to all of us who have served in the military? What will you say when it works against you? E.g., what if McCain says to Obama, "I've got a box full of medals that demonstrate my service to my country; what have you done besides being a street agitator in Chicago?" Or, "While you were smoking dope on Waikiki, I was serving my country in the Navy. You haven't earned the right to run for president". Something tells me you won't consider those two examples great "PWNAGE". It's only PWNAGE when it's used against some nerdy Jew armchair warrior, right? No fun when it's used against your guy. Don't worry though: McCain is too classy to drop the hammer on Obama like that.
To be fair, it's not quite as useful for McCain to lay the hammer on someone who DOESN'T want endless war. It's more hypocritical for those who define this war as 'the most important in our time' or whatnot but wish not to participate. Also, I'm a military guy who played DnD, but then realized I could choose between that or females. I'm an undercover nerd now... thank goodness video games are relatively acceptable now.
LnGrrR, "To be fair, it's not quite as useful for McCain to lay the hammer on someone who DOESN'T want endless war." What about Obama's Afghanistan policy makes you think he'd extricate us from that war in a pre-determined, finite period of time? At this point, there isn't much daylight between Obama and McCain on the wars, in practical terms. Both will stay in Iraq as long as the Iraqi government wants us there (the better things continue to go in Iraq, the shorter that will be), and both are committed to essentially endless war in the fourth world wastelands of Afghanistan.
"Don't worry though: McCain is too classy to drop the hammer on Obama like that." Posted by Fred So, comparing Obama to Britney and Paris Hilton, making fun of his supporters as fawning cultists, and claiming that he is putting his ambition to be President ahead of wanting to win in Iraq is "class"? I'd hate to see what not classy looks like.
Kat, Politics ain't beanbag, and if Obama can't take those humorous and relatively inoffensive ads, he's got a glass jaw.
You'd be surprised, Andrew, how this story is burning through the gaming blogosphere. Goldfarb, it's safe to say, made a critical miss on his to-hit roll.
"To one up the nerdiness of you, I'd disagree that the Horde is necessarily the bad guys. The Allies certainly have done their fair share of evil over time." Oh, without a doubt, my moral sympathies definitely lie with the downtrodden Horde. But for people who haven't immersed themselves in the game, and just cave to that WoW ad for the first time after resisting for months, it seems like they will often pick Allies for their first avatar because they seem like the good guys. Props to Blizzard for having some moral dynamism.
I believe the proper construct for expressing the sentiment "uncle tom of nerds" is "jock-sucker".
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I think that's the best D&D reference I've seen on a politics blog thus far. Well played, sir.
Posted by Ricky | August 20, 2008 6:16 PM