« These are not the minorities you're looking for... | Main | The arrogance of Rangel » More thoughts on T.R.O.Y.14 Aug 2008 02:02 pm Fred asked for the lyrics so here they are. Also below is the video. Hearing this song makes me sad because it really displays the sort of humanity that, as the 90s wore on, it just became hard to get away with in hip-hop. This is more about the business than the people. Pop music is, at its core, almost always hedonistic. And hip-hop was always targeted at the hedonism of young men. As time went on, I think, the business folks just excelled at pinning down the sort of things that occupy the thoughts of boys and men in their teens and early 20s--namely sex, money and power. I'm not sure how much difference there is between say Maxim and hip-hop at this point. Hip-hop may be more profane, but that's about it. I don't know that T.R.O.Y. is the greatest hip-hop song ever made, but it ranks in my top five. It comes from a place of pure emotion--it's an ode to Pete Rock and C.L. Smooth's friend Trouble T Roy, a dancer for Heavy D and The Boyz, who died in a complete freak accident. But the beauty of the song--the incredible horn loop aside--is that C.L. expands it beyond the sort of soppy elegies put out by rappers grappling with death (Dead Homiez, Six Feet Deep etc.) and turns it into a portrait of an American family. And there are all kinds there--his mother, who had children by C.L.'s less than ideal father, Papa Doc who stands in for C.L.'s Dad (and gives him arguably the best advice ever recorded in music--"use your condoms and take sips of the brew"), his entrepreneurial Aunt Joyce, his car-collecting Uncle Sterling. This song always hit me hard--it gives the sort of complete portrait of the black family that I so rarely see out in the world, and always, always makes me think of my own flawed and incredibly beautiful family. T.R.O.Y. is wholly unconcerned with giving a "positive portrayal" of black people--it just lays out out the unsensational truth. I spent most of last year working the last half of my memoir, and I swear, I rocked this joint nonstop. All I wanted to do--all I've ever wanted to do--was write something that hit people the way T.R.O.Y. hit me. This is what I mean when I say hip-hop taught me how think and how to write. It was the first poetry I ever knew, the first attempt to capture something deep and unsaid about humanity, and do it in rhythm and in a condensed powerful form, that I ever heard. The great M.C. is like the author of a great sonnet--he operates in a constricted space, and works to get as much emotional resonance as possible out of every word. I learned that basic lesson first from Rakim and later from Nas, from C.L. Smooth, from Kool G. Rap. People who think these dudes are just picking up a mic and saying whatever should give T.R.O.Y. a few sustained listens, and see if they can do the same. I've been trying it for years now. I'm trying in this post you're reading right now. I can tell you, it's not easy. Comments (38)Comments on this entry have been closed. |
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Wow, your giving me flash backs...
I realize it sounds like a conspiracy theory, but I do think it's a little weird that hip hop didn't really start getting big time label support until artists started speaking about committing acts of violence against one another...
Thanks for putting that up. Old news for many, mayhap, but enlightenment for some.
You don't need to be conspiratorial. It's quite simple. Corporations are in it for the money. I don't begrudge them for this. But if you get into bed with them, you should understand that the profit-motive is king. Sensationalism is an easy way to grab attention, and hopefully, record sales. It is no mistake that gangsta rap's rise to dominance in the 90s directly tracks with major label investment in hip-hop. Again, I don't begrudge big labels--they're doing what they do. But the effects of the marriage are obvious.
This period of Hip-hop (89-94ish) was really blessed with sensational rapping: Gangstarr, Jeru, early Nas. Post-old school, pre-mainstream, I like to call this era "Middle School" Almost no one recognizes it because of the overarching media fascination with concurrent gangsta rap.
For a lot of black east-coasters, this was our first impression of wordsmith-ing. How words could tell something in a stupendously concise manner.
T.R.O.Y. was the song I played for my music loving, hip-hop hating old man to convince him that there was more to the genera than he assumed. It moved a 50 something white dude from Denton TX. It didn't turn him into a hip-hop junkie by any means, but it opened his mind to its potential as an art form. That's powerful stuff in my book.
I can't load the T.R.O.Y. video for some reason right now (work computer screwey). But to share, I'm loving these guys right now, Blue Scholars.
"Loyalty". Something ethereal about this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHDyPvF0KL8&feature=related
And "Joe Metro"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wz79goWQrYU
I don't know that T.R.O.Y. is the greatest hip-hop song ever made, but it ranks in my top five.
So let's have it...
What are your top five hip hop tracks of all time?
That Pete Rock & CL Smooth album was the last hip-hop album I bought. After that, everything that reached the masses seemed so contrived, formulaic, and phony, despite the all real bullet scars and the actual violence and whatnot. (Or maybe the problem was that even the violence seemed contrived, hence that great "Sopranos" subplot involving the pseudo-gangsta asking Bobby to shoot him in the leg to give him more street cred.) Hip-hop had me at Public Enemy's "Here it is...", but eventually Sean Combs and the cascade of garbage that he and the big labels wrought was too much to bear. Meanwhile, Chris Rock's parody "Champagne" somehow became a template for non-parody videos and songs.
I mean, how does one even begin to compare the substance and value of lyrics in T.R.O.Y. or Rakim's body of work with 50 Cent?
"I'm into having sex, I ain't into making love
So come give me a hug if you into getting rubbed."
It's kind of like what happened to metal. At first it was a real art form, and then the labels got hold of the language and the looks, and we had clown shows like Poison and Winger on MTV advertised as Winger. Only later were people able to look back and label those acts as hair bands rather than heavy metal groups.
1) La Di Da Di by Doug E. Fresh and Slick Rick
2) Eric B. for President by Eric B. and Rakim
3) My Mind's Playin Tricks on Me by The Geto Boys
4) Funky Beat by Whodini
5) Welcome to the Terrordome by Public Enemy
Ok--since we're diggin in the crates--Any of you out there who were watching Ralph McDaniels and Video Music Box way back will remember this one, it closed out every show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxyYP_bS_6s
"Self Destruction"
Ok--since we're diggin in the crates--Any of you out there who were watching Ralph McDaniels and Video Music Box way back will remember this one, it closed out every show:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxyYP_bS_6s
"Self Destruction"
Sorry for the double post--I'm not sure how that happened.
I agree with everyone on Corporate Hip Hop. I would even go one farther to say the "gangsta" (errr) 'rap' is ultimately the most conservative form, despite all the talk of sex and violence (nothing new to hollywood) the values espoused are 'work hard and make a lot of money' 'crush the competition' 'enjoy the utility of your hard work'. Sounds like it could come right out of an MBA program...
Hot- on the ipod right now. Close, on the top 10 for sure, just the single though.
And yes, the best MCs like Mos or Rakim are poets with few rivals. Its emotional, meaningful and so important.
My top 5 singles list is constantly changing and never includes anything post 1990-ish. Today's list is(no BDP today):
1. Microphone Fiend- Rakim
2. Mathmatics- Mos Def
3. Ain't Hard to tell- Nas
4. Bonita remix- Tribe
5. I got u opin remix- Black Moon
Sorry for the double post--I'm not sure how that happened.
I agree with everyone on Corporate Hip Hop. I would even go one farther to say the "gangsta" (errr) 'rap' is ultimately the most conservative form, despite all the talk of sex and violence (nothing new to hollywood) the values espoused are 'work hard and make a lot of money' 'crush the competition' 'enjoy the utility of your hard work'. Sounds like it could come right out of an MBA program...
thanks for the post, as someone who grew up a young teen in the late 80's - early 90's, this song brought me back. Slick Rick had the same kind of effect on me. I was attracted to "Children's Story", and it was because of that song that I discovered the greatness that is "Hey Young World".
Then there is KRS-One, "Love's Gonna Getcha", and the genius behind "Self Destruction", the hoods answer to We Are the World.
thanks for the post, as someone who grew up a young teen in the late 80's - early 90's, this song brought me back. Slick Rick had the same kind of effect on me. I was attracted to "Children's Story", and it was because of that song that I discovered the greatness that is "Hey Young World".
Then there is KRS-One, "Love's Gonna Getcha", and the genius behind "Self Destruction", the hoods answer to We Are the World.
Great tune. Check out the Vibes Remix if you haven't already.
I dont think its a conspiracy.
Str8 Outta Compton went platinum with minimal corporate backing and no radio airplay.
Corporations would have been negligent not to sell it. They are just not setup to ignore demand.
There was still alot of non-Gangsta rap playing in the 90's. I frankly dont see why alot of white kids would buy PE's Fear of a Black Planet. Same goes for Dead Prez or X-Clan. They bought alot of Nas, Fugees, Lauren Hill, Common, Jay Z, and OutKast, probably just not as much as Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, and Wu Tang though.
I just think white kids and kids in general were able to relate more to the authenticity, rebelliousness and hedonism of The Chronic. They of course ignored the violence. They are just as desensitized to the violence and criminality as any American is. I saw more murder in "No Country for Old Men" than I heard about on the Chronic. But, thought it was a great movie. Also, when it comes to a young adult party, you can quickly fill the dance floor with "Nothin But A G Thang".
The Chronic was also musical genius. Even Quincy Jones recognizes that. It was bound to influence the evolution of rap, no matter how you slice it. N*GGAZ4LIFE, NWA's even harder and more racial follow up to Str8 Outta Compton, didnt sell as well,although it did hit #1 on Billboard, and was IMO well produced. The Chronic was a little less racial and alot more hedonistic thanks to the influence of Snoop Dogg - who was as gangsta as say MC Ren, less racial, and more interested in partying. His charisma, Dre's production, and Interscope's distribution is what really took Gangsta rap to the top of the charts in the 90's.
How about this. Maybe "Gangsta Rap" is contrived and dead on arrival. I also grew up in the late eighties-early nineties and saw the evolution of Rap/Hip Hop over time. I would sooner cut my ears off then buy a rap album today. The stuff coming out today is PURE UNADULTERATED GARBAAAAGE. Anyways, the main point is that there is nothing that will ever compare to NWA and the breath taking explosion that catapulted them onto the scene. However, just like in real life, you can only DIE once, hence, there really is no need to say how you can kill someone over and over. When it comes right down to it, that is what "Gangsta Rap" is all about (Power, and the ultimate power is to take someone's life). There are a million+ ways that you can say/show love, feeling (empathy), release from oppression, and all that other stuff the "conscience rap/hip hop" was trying to do. In the end, after middle and corporate america fought the craze, they did as they always do, they co-opted it and packaged it into some slick crap that was easily consumed by another generation of the MAJORITY, that would put plenty of dollars in their own pockets. Now, we have the crap that we have. Just like Michael Jackson was not made rich by black folks, 50 cent owes the majority of his success (financially) to suburban white kids living vicariously through his urban orgy of violence.
How about this. Maybe "Gangsta Rap" is contrived and dead on arrival. I also grew up in the late eighties-early nineties and saw the evolution of Rap/Hip Hop over time. I would sooner cut my ears off then buy a rap album today. The stuff coming out today is PURE UNADULTERATED GARBAAAAGE. Anyways, the main point is that there is nothing that will ever compare to NWA and the breath taking explosion that catapulted them onto the scene. However, just like in real life, you can only DIE once, hence, there really is no need to say how you can kill someone over and over. When it comes right down to it, that is what "Gangsta Rap" is all about (Power, and the ultimate power is to take someone's life). There are a million+ ways that you can say/show love, feeling (empathy), release from oppression, and all that other stuff the "conscience rap/hip hop" was trying to do. In the end, after middle and corporate america fought the craze, they did as they always do, they co-opted it and packaged it into some slick crap that was easily consumed by another generation of the MAJORITY, that would put plenty of dollars in their own pockets. Now, we have the crap that we have. Just like Michael Jackson was not made rich by black folks, 50 cent owes the majority of his success (financially) to suburban white kids living vicariously through his urban orgy of violence.
1) Jazz (We Got) - Tribe Called Quest
2) C.R.E.A.M. – Wu-Tang Clan
3) Bring the Noise – P.E.
4) Lil’ Ghetto Boy – Dr. Dre w/ Snoop (hattip to the great Donny Hathaway)
5) I Used to Love H.E.R. - Common (T.R.O.Y. is the better song, but this seemed appropriate for the topic)
Quick iPod shuffle test: Flip the Script – Gangstarr.
1) Gin & Juice - Snoop Dogg
2) Stranded on Death Row - The Chronic
3) Get The F--- Outta Dodge - PE
4) Once Upon A Time In The Projects 2 - Ice Cube
5) Party & Bullshit - Notorious BIG
hey t-n
you may be pushing it comparing the best of rap to sonnets: the purpose of the two things is so different that any comparison is surely moot. but i am prepared to say that it is certainly MUCH harder to write a shakespearean or petrarchan sonnet at a technical level than it is write a rap: the rules of sonnet writing are exceedingly strict. the metre and rhyme work as a means of crystallising a certain thought or feeling. rap is the opposite: it's strength is its looseness: in fact seems to put almost no emphasis on concentration of mood or meaning whatsoever: e.g., the T.R.O.Y. lyrics are a pretty random collection of unconnected thoughts. in fact, isn't this when rap works best, i.e. as a series of one liners? or at least a series of wildly contrasting items? i offer in support of my argument compelling melnges such as chuck d / flavor flav and the wu tangs, but any dozen or so examples are to hand.
the blog is a thing of great beauty.
Listen, just listen / To the funky song / As I rock on / And that's word is bond
"It is no mistake that gangsta rap's rise to dominance in the 90s directly tracks with major label investment in hip-hop. Again, I don't begrudge labels--they're doing what they do. But the effects of the marriage are obvious."
TC, i would absolutely love to see these "obvious effects" laid out in a detailed post. i don't think i get what your trying to imply. i do hope that should you choose to write such a post, it will stand to criticism and be shown as more than 30 something awash resentment. also, I would hope you and many in your audience would agree that the music is still quite relevant today. Though much of its current styling may offend you and your audiences' lustful nostalgia for psuedo-revolutionaries stepping with plastic rifles.
"the metre and rhyme work as a means of crystallising a certain thought or feeling. rap is the opposite"
I disagree. Rap is the same.
"isn't this when rap works best, i.e. as a series of one liners? or at least a series of wildly contrasting items?"
No. Try listening to the story tellers: Tupac, Biggie, Ice Cube, etc.
Here are the Ice Cubes lyrics to Superstar - a song about fake gangsta rappers who try to boost their street cred to sell records
"While you're shuckin' and jivin'
howdy drivin'
Rollin' in my SUV
All my plus three thugs
on the way to the club
And when I come
you got love for me
Cause I'm a super
superstar
You know we're super
superstars
Everybody know jail records
sell records
I'ma catch a case
come to court ni**a
bail naked
I got the formula
double murder
equal double platinum
I know these b*tch ni**az
wonderin' why I'm bustin' at 'em
The rich an' famous
ignoramus
It's kind of heinous
with the picture of the world
that he paint us
The most dangerous angriest lyrics
that a thug got
Ain't enough ni**a
where your mug shot?
Where's your drug spot
ni**a you's a was-not
I can't bump your shit
if you never was shot
Before you bust a verse
ni**a go snatch a purse
You ain't my dogg
till you laid up in a herse
And you'll learn about loyalty
when the record company
Try to f*ck your family
out the royalty
Your number one with a bullet
and you took it in the back
Goddamn that ni**a can rap"
Just as an ode to hip-hop, great post. I grew up in Vermont, and needless to say, it's beyond the Whitest place. This isn't to say that people didn't like rap--it was just that the most popular pop station in my area used to advertise "100% rap free." You had to seek it out, and I wasn't at that point in my life yet.
Then I went to summer camp, and I heard Biggie, and I heard Wu-Tang, and Snoop and Pac and Dre. Needless to say, things haven't been the same since.
Best songs of latter have of the 20th Century:
-'A Day in the Life' by the Beatles
-'Man on the Moon' by R.E.M.
-'T.R.O.Y.' by Pete Rock and CL Smooth
Random Geek Moment:
The Boondocks TV show used the original song Pete Rock sampled in a goofy tale involving graffiti and that crazy guy from PBS who used to do painting lessons. A crappy TV show but a great use of a song where it's sample meant a lot more than the song itself.
TROY is probably my favorite hip hop song of all time (definately battling for top spot). Thanks to Ta-n for giving it, and its subject, the treatment they deserve.
There is something in the song, transmitted through the beat,the guitar riff, the sax, the choir note, and the lyrics that expresses and invokes in the listener, the unique and universally recognized (color is irrelevant) feelings of Love and Loss of family. The only other song that I can think of that invokes an even similar feeling (and to a lesser degree even with my Irish blood) is "My Father" (if that is the title) by the Cranberries.
I just noticed that I somehow screwed up my link from earlier. That should have been Lil’ Ghetto Boy.
Thanks for that, Ta-Nehesi. I feel as if I'm a little closer to understanding what you see in this, but to be honest, it still doesn't translate. I get how you could be moved by the seemingly authentic, unvarnished family portrait in the lyrics, but the way those lyrics are delivered in essentially a monotone chant drains them of emotion to my ears. It's not angry like some rap, but the tone seems stuck in a shell-shocked neutral, as if this is as high as the emotional range of rap goes.
"TC, i would absolutely love to see these "obvious effects" laid out in a detailed post. i don't think i get what your trying to imply. i do hope that should you choose to write such a post, it will stand to criticism and be shown as more than 30 something awash resentment. also, I would hope you and many in your audience would agree that the music is still quite relevant today. Though much of its current styling may offend you and your audiences' lustful nostalgia for psuedo-revolutionaries stepping with plastic rifles."
Oh that's easy--a narrowing in the range of what can and can't be said. You don't have to think that Public Enemy was the height of Western art to see that. It happens with any art form that meets a better developed business model. What is less profitable is cleared out for what's more profitable. Necessarily that requires less diversity of voice. This isn't confined to hip-hop--there a reason the summer blockbuster season is dominated by, say, big budget action movies
Check out the range of hip-hop that existed at the start of the 90s with what existed by the end. The effect is clear. I should add that this isn't simply speculation. I've heard this from lips of people actually in the business of selling records.
"It happens with any art form that meets a better developed business model. What is less profitable is cleared out for what's more profitable. Necessarily that requires less diversity of voice."
"Sensationalism is an easy way to grab attention, and hopefully, record sales. It is no mistake that gangsta rap's rise to dominance in the 90s directly tracks with major label investment in hip-hop. Again, I don't begrudge big labels--they're doing what they do. But the effects of the marriage are obvious."
A simple google search (lest i be shown incorrect) will reveal the majority of top-seller hip-hop albums over the last eighteen years or of the 1990s or post 2000 are not in the gangsta-rap mode. These lists are dominated by a variety of artists like Will Smith, The Fugees, Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer, and Eminem, none of whom to my mind resemble a gansta-rap act. If i am to believe the marriage of gansta-rap and commercialism is what crowded out hip-hop, wouldn't i expect to see the top-selling albums over some significant period of time largely represented by gansta-rap albums? The reasoning in your prior comments seems to say the industry was influenced by the successes of gangsta-rap to such a point that other types of hip-hop were forced out by the very nature of business. I'm not saying a crowding out of some sort did not occur, but me think you're laying too much at the feet of gansta-rap's influence while at the same time denigrating much of the music that followed the so called "golden age."
I'm not sure who you're arguing with. I never claimed that gangsta rap crowded out the rest of hip-hop. I made a very specific point--that the influence of corporate labels have narrowed the voice, and that a large part of what's left is gangsta rap. That doesn't mean that's all that left.
The point is very specific--that the late 80s to the early 90s represented a relatively brief moment of diversity in the art-form and that as time went on, that was less true. Citing artists from that period--like Vanilla Ice and Hammer--doesn't disprove that case. Nor does citing the Fugees, who last released a record in the mid-90s.
maybe im wrong to read your comments in such a way but this is what i responded to:
"It is no mistake that gangsta rap's rise to dominance in the 90s directly tracks with major label investment in hip-hop... the effects of the marriage are obvious."
then in order to elaborate on these said effects, you used the example of summer movies being dominated by action flicks.
"What is less profitable is cleared out for what's more profitable. Necessarily that requires less diversity of voice. This isn't confined to hip-hop--there a reason the summer blockbuster season is dominated by, say, big budget action movies"
Given your earlier comments, i assumed (and perhaps wrongly) you said this to demonstrate the analogous role of gangsta-rap in hip-hop to action movies in the summer movie season. If i have given your comparison a fair-minded reading then the analogy is not apt because the top hip-hop sellers are not and have not been dominated by gangsta-rap. just look at the top-sellers over any arbitrarily significant period within the last eighteen years. the top selling albums in rap are not chiefly gangsta-rap in the way your analogy states summer movies are dominated by action films. maybe i read too much in to this or have failed to do my argument justice, but in any case i digress.
much love/respect due
Back at you kid :)