Talk about a guy with Hall of Fame talent but a Hall of Very Good career. I'm a weird fan, in that, I usually end up developing a great degree of admiration for great players from division rivals. Randall Cunningham is tops on the list of players who I rooted for, on teams I rooted against. The flawed case that people make against Emmitt Smith for Barry Sanders (better overall team) is the same flawed case I make for Randall--admittedly. In the 90s, an era of exciting players, I thought Randall was king. Below are some of his greatest hits, and, for me, quite simply one of the greatest feats of football athleticism every committed.
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Had he been able to win two more playoff games as a Viking, perhaps there would not be such a solid asterisk beside his name. As it stands today, I remember his attitude the most which was unfortunately not team orientated most of his career. Amazing athlete yes, hall of fame material?, sadly no.
Again, being a Houston fan, just like I'm a big Earl Campbell (I'm the Juggernaut!) guy, I'm a BIG Warren Moon guy.
If he had had those 1st five year in the NFL, instead of the CFL, it is very possible he would have LED the league in passing yards, up until Brett Favre, recently.
Again, being a Houston fan, just like I'm a big Earl Campbell (I'm the Juggernaut!) guy, I'm a BIG Warren Moon guy.
If he had had those 1st five year in the NFL, instead of the CFL, it is very possible he would have LED the league in passing yards, up until Brett Favre, recently.
Apologies for the double-post...
The only aspect of Cunningham's play that bothered me consistently (I never thought of him as being less team oriented than other qbs) was the big wind up. Maybe I'm too partial to offensive linemen but, a qb with a big throwing motion just drives me nuts. As a Vikings rooter, his severe underthrow of a wide open Randy Moss, fifty yards downfield, in overtime in the Conference Championship against the Falcons, is something I will always hold against him, but that's just irrational fandom speaking.
Love the look on Jim Kelly's face. He can't believe it...
JC, I'm a huge Warren Moon fan as well, but I think you have your black QB's confused. This was a post about Randall Cunningham.
Also, wouldn't the 'greatest player who never was' have to be Bo Jackson?
Nope, I don't. I suppose it's wrong, mentally, for a discussion about the underrated black quarterback, Randall Cunningham, to then, in my mind, flash to the underrated black quarterback Warren Moon, but really, it was always a crime that Warren Moon didn't get in the league sooner.
Mostly this post makes me think:
(1) it is a shame Vick is such an idiot. He had even more potential (a combination of Sanders and Marino) and even less expression of that potential.
(2) I love basketball, and loved Yglesias on basketball, but these posts remind me why I love football even more. Thanks for that, Ta-Nehisi.
Great post. The first video is maybe the greatest play I've ever seen. Cunningham was the man- even late in his career on the Vikings he could flick his wrist and the ball would sail 40 yards on a line. He used to win the longest throw contest at the QB challenge every year without a problem. The only guy I've seen with comparable arm strength is JaMarcus Russell, and well he's like twice as big as Randall and not nearly as athletic.
Does anyone remember the time they asked Randall to punt it out of the end zone and he kicked it like 90 yards? They later asked the coach why Cunningham didn't punt more often, and he said it was because he could only kick it like 70 yards at a time.
JC,
Like I said, I'm a huge Warren Moon fan as well. The Oilers were my favorite team growing up. But Warren Moon is in the HOF, right? I'm not sure how underrated you can be as a member of the Hall. But I suppose a lot of people don't even realize how many of his years were wasted in the CFL, so maybe your point is valid...
Randall was the fuckin man for a while there. IIRC, they said stupid-ass, brilliant fuckin Buddy Ryan's offensive gameplan generally consisted of asking Randall to make something happen a couple of times a game, and the defense would take care of the rest.
I remember early in his career, the Lions sack Randall something like 11 times in a game. I had doubts that he would any good, but I was proven wrong pretty quickly. He was way better than any Lion's QB in my lifetime.
I always love watching the play against the Giants that leads off the second video.
The difference between the flawed argument about Cunningham and the one about Sanders v. Smith is that Sanders was better than Smith even on terrible teams. With the entire defense knowing he was the only member of the other team that could hurt them, he averaged about a half a yard more per carry than Smith, who had a truly great quarterback, offensive line and wide receiver on his team. For anyone who spent much time watching the two there was just no comparison between the two.
I root for rival players the same way. As a West Virginia fan, I first learned to love Donovan McNabb when he was playing for the hated 'Cuse. Maybe it's because we come to expect so little from our teams' rivals that when a good, likeable player comes along, we're caught off-guard and end up going completely in the tank for him/her.
You're right - Cunningham's the man. Of course, I never really appreciated him at the time. My team had a Neil O'Donnell and Bubby Brister situation going on, so I sort of resented every half-decent QB in the league (compared to Brister, that's every starter and 3/4 of the backups) on principle.
The perfect counterpoint to that look of exasperation from Carl Banks after Randall denies him the sack in that super-human move is the clip of Lawrence Taylor (who was miked for NFL Films at the time) sitting on top of Randall after a play, shaking his head, and saying, "Randall, y'all gotta do better than that!"
This reminds me: wasn't Carl Banks the target of one of the more vicious blocks in NFL history? Wasn't it an Eagles tight end that leveled him? Anyone remember?
He was a very good player who could have been... - well who the hell knows how good he could have been? Personally, I'd bet on double plus extra good.
nahnah bro, you go too far by a mile on this one. RC belongs in the same over-hyped underachieving class as Ryan Leaf. Yea the guy had the motorboat only problem was that he was a QB, not a HB. :P RC is not even close to being in Warren Moon's league.
-Mike who grew up watching LT pwn RC on Sundays.
Having an appreciation for a player on a rival team does not make you a "weird fan." On the contrary, it denotes a deeper love of the game itself. As a Fins fan, I was lucky enough to bear witness to every play of Marino's career. But I always had a soft spot in my heart for Marv Levy's Bills and really liked watching guys like Jim Kelly and Thurman Thomas. Now Belichick and Brady is another story...
DaveinHackensack:
The perfect counterpoint to that look of exasperation from Carl Banks after Randall denies him the sack in that super-human move is the clip of Lawrence Taylor (who was miked for NFL Films at the time) sitting on top of Randall after a play, shaking his head, and saying, "Randall, y'all gotta do better than that!"
This reminds me: wasn't Carl Banks the target of one of the more vicious blocks in NFL history? Wasn't it an Eagles tight end that leveled him? Anyone remember?
I think that it was Keith Byars in the same game as the Banks play.
"nahnah bro, you go too far by a mile on this one. RC belongs in the same over-hyped underachieving class as Ryan Leaf"
No disrespect, but are you familiar with Leaf's stats? Did Ryan Leaf ever in start a full season, much less a playoff game? I'm pretty sure Randall wasn't drafted number two overall.
Randall should make the hall...what is he, a 3 time MVP? Easily won of the most exciting players of all time and he has the numbers to back it up. The only thing he doesnt have is playoffs wins.
Ok that was a silly and gross over-exageration but you get where I was going. Into the history books of overall busts for the home team.
Randal was good on the run but no Warren Moon and no way HOF. He played for his stats and his teams lost in the end, always. BC Plan said it all, no playoff wins and that's what counts in the big show.
A Warren Moon fan saying that playoff wins is the only thing that counts? Really? The only memorable Warren Moon playoff moment was giving up a 35-3 lead in the biggest playoff collapse ever.
btw, according to pro-football-reference.com, Randall Cunningham's playoff record was 5-7. Warren Moon's playoff record was 3-7.
Sorry, a closer look shows Randall was 3-7 in the playoffs as a starter. The point remains, though, that if playoff wins is what matters, then Warren Moon shouldn't be the counter-example.
Mike,
You gonna have to come harder than that kid. We got some serious football geeks in the house. You are now rocking with the best :)
That was in '86 when Philly set an NFL record by getting their QBs sacked 104 times. Poor Cunningham got sacked 72 times that year. I was only in 6th grade at the time, but my dad was a huge fan of his from the start, which naturally made me a fan. I remember dad constantly telling me Cunningham would be incredible if Philly would ever manage to put a half=decent line in front of him, but they never did.
Luis writes: "(1) it is a shame Vick is such an idiot. He had even more potential (a combination of Sanders and Marino) and even less expression of that potential."
Unfortunately intelligence seems to be required to be a really good quarterback, and Vick doesn't seem to have ever had much of it. I didn't understand the fascination with him because he just never really showed any signs of getting it in the passing game. He may be comparable to Marino in terms of arm strength but never in accuracy.
I would never compare him to Cunningham, who DID know what he was doing and who had some great years. I think a little too much running hurt Randall as the injuries piled up, but at his best he was an elite QB. He's likely to fall short for the Hall but he didn't waste his talent.
From what I've read, many in the NFL think that the "greatest player who never was" was Greg Cook, who was QB for the Bengals in 1969, led the AFL in passer rating as a rookie and set the rookie records (which still stand) for yards per attempt and yards per completion.
Moe,etc.: I think we're mostly agreed. Obviously Vick did not have the football brains nor the accuracy of a Marino, though he did have a gun and a great intuition for the field as a runner. So I'm not saying he was as good as Cunningham or Moon. But those things (brains, accuracy) can be learned and improved with time, so I think he had the potential to have been great- quite possibly better and more explosive than either of them. Obviously he didn't take that advantage, so this is purely speculation and we'll never know.
DaveinHackensack:
"The perfect counterpoint to that look of exasperation from Carl Banks after Randall denies him the sack in that super-human move is the clip of Lawrence Taylor (who was miked for NFL Films at the time) sitting on top of Randall after a play, shaking his head, and saying, "Randall, y'all gotta do better than that!"
This reminds me: wasn't Carl Banks the target of one of the more vicious blocks in NFL history? Wasn't it an Eagles tight end that leveled him? Anyone remember?"
Actually Dave, it was Pepper Johnson who got blocked on the play by Byers, who happened to be Johnson's best man at his wedding.
Ryan Leaf? That guy was a bigger bust than Jeff George. If the topic was about Todd Marinovich, then it would be alright to mention Ryan Leaf.
pesto, that would be "greg cook, as coached by the young bill walsh."
roger, those ohio state guys always did stick together!
in fact, pesto, you inspired me to dig up a tribute that dr. z. wrote to cook:
The man who changed the face of pro football as we know it today is Greg Cook.
Not many people outside of his native state of Ohio remember him these days, but in Cincinnati, where he starred at the University and then with the Bengals in 1969, he is still a legendary figure, still a topic of conversation. There has never been an NFL rookie like him, and almost everyone who saw him play has some personal memory -- the 70-yarder he threw to Bob Trumpy, the 60-yarder to Eric Crabtree, the deep passes that came off his arm like rockets, but rockets delivered with perfect touch and timing. They remembered his poise and savvy and instinctive knowledge of how to attack a defense.
He was a 6-foot-4, 220-pound, blond-haired football god who was going to rewrite all the records, whose future was unlimited, but when people talk about him today, the inevitable note of sadness comes in, because Greg Cook's functional career ended after one season.
A misdiagnosed and mistreated shoulder injury, years of pain and frustration and rehabs that always ended with more pain and frustration. This lasted for five miserable years, and then he was through. A legend, an unfulfilled dream, a shake of the head. Oh, man, what a quarterback this kid was gonna be.
He had all the skills, including great athletic ability, but his true gift was the way he could throw the deep ball. He averaged 17.5 yards per completion during that 1969 season. That's an unheard of figure, a mark no one has come close to since.
(snip)
And who was the architect of that greedy offense? Think of the most unlikely name you can find. That's right, Bill Walsh. He was in his second year as receivers coach for the Bengals, after having served an apprenticeship in the Oakland Raiders' long-ball system, and then putting in a year with the San Jose Apaches in the Continental League. Receivers coach was his official designation, but Paul Brown had turned the design of the offense over to him.
(snip)
"I think that when I first started working with Bill Walsh," Cook says, "it was a pleasant surprise for him that I was ahead of the game, for a rookie. Otto Graham, who'd been Paul Brown's great quarterback in Cleveland, was our coach at the college all star game. He took me aside and told me, 'You know, I think coach Brown's probably going to let you call your own plays. He's gotten to that stage of his life.
"Then he said, 'If you see something that's not in the plan, do it anyway. Always remember to do something against the trend, against the down and distance conditions. You'll be surprised how successful you'll be, because everyone's always working off tendencies."
Except Walsh. He hated tendencies. He wouldn't repeat himself.
"He could see into the future," Cook says. "Everything he did was based on setting someone up for future meetings. He'd hold stuff back, he'd go against tendencies. I loved his system.
"His philosophy was based on stretching the field, which would force the linebackers deeper and open things up underneath. Then he'd go deep again. He always liked deep receivers. He liked to force the cornerbacks downfield, then go short to bring 'em up, then go deep again. It was like the horse on the merry-go-round, up and down, up and down. With the DBs, it was up and back, up and back. It was merciless. He had people worn out by halftime. By the end of the half, they didn't know what they were doing.
"It was never a take-what-they-give-us philosophy. It was make them take what we give them. And it gave me a feeling of invincibility. I felt I could make any throw he wanted me to make."
(snip)
So how did he change the face of NFL football, you ask. Well, in 1970 the Bengals traded with Buffalo for Virgil Carter, a small, active, very heady quarterback originally from the Brigham Young passing factory, a guy who taught math in the offseason at Xavier University. And Walsh designed a system to take advantage of his talents.
A lot of motion. "Swooping and swerving," as Paul Brown called it. A lot of rollouts, underneath throwing, maximum use of backs running horizontal routes off lots of picks. Not entirely gone, but certainly no longer a prime factor, was the deep attack. A year after he joined the team, Carter led the NFL with a 62.2 percent completion rate and an offense was born. It achieved perfection with Joe Montana and the Walsh 49ers.
Walsh termed it "the Cincinnati offense" and got annoyed when people started referring to it as the West Coast offense later on, since that really wasn't its birthplace. But the phrase caught on, and that's what is sweeping the NFL today, with variations, of course.
Once not too long ago I asked Walsh what would his offense have been like if Greg Cook had been his quarterback for 14 or 15 years.
"Completely different," he said. "It would have started with the deep strike, and everything would have played off that. It would have set records that never would be broken.
"Greg Cook," he said nostalgically, his eyes getting a little misty. "What a great, great talent. What a terrible shame."
ttp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/dr_z/news/2001/10/10/drz_insider/
At the risk of sounding like Limbaugh. RC was a prototype of a proven failure in QB design. Perhaps, had he not taken to torturing dogs for a hobby, Michael Vick might have disproven this theory, but as it stands, RC is an early example of black players who insist on being a QBs despite being manifestly better suited to RB, all because of an ancient prejudice against black QBs. It's a counterproductive cultural imperative.
Going back to Vick, who was an solid, albeit, average proQB, but a preternatural RB (had he only given it a chance): Imagine a backfield with a genuine QB with legs (e.g., Steve Young, John Elway) and Vick, standing side by side in the shotgun. No defense on Earth could game plan such an option.
Getting back to RC. Qbs of any color who play the position as he did are always one play away from retirement. If the knees don't getcha the noggin will. And a guy like RC never had a chance against that reality. He just wasn't big enough.
That said, he was a hoot to watch while he lasted.
Luis writes: "But those things (brains, accuracy) can be learned and improved with time, so I think he had the potential to have been great- quite possibly better and more explosive than either of them. Obviously he didn't take that advantage, so this is purely speculation and we'll never know."
Maybe, but I think Vick's other life choices sort of suggest he wasn't ever going to improve his brains. And it's not like he was only around for a couple of years
unclesmedley says: "RC is an early example of black players who insist on being a QBs despite being manifestly better suited to RB, all because of an ancient prejudice against black QBs. It's a counterproductive cultural imperative.
Going back to Vick, who was an solid, albeit, average proQB, but a preternatural RB (had he only given it a chance): Imagine a backfield with a genuine QB with legs (e.g., Steve Young, John Elway) and Vick, standing side by side in the shotgun. No defense on Earth could game plan such an option. "
Cunningham never looked like a running back to me too long and lean. And he was a much better than average QB for a lot of years. I think he made the right choice.
The difference is that running QBs have a lot of situations where they get 10 FREE YARDS. The really quick ones can turn that into 15 with no problem. RBs never have that 10 yard luxury.
Vick might have been best used in some sort of hybrid offense, but he wasn't the most durable guy as a QB. Hard to say how he would have held up. We may get a chance to find out when he comes back. And I do hope he gets a chance to rebuild his ruined, broke life some.
Firstly, to the haters, this is a guy who was four times All-Pro and two time NFL MVP. Yeah, that's a real bust. Give me one of those any days of the week.
Ta-Nehisi, I understand your admiration for rivals. As a life long Eagles fan (Dallas sucks), I will still defend Troy Aikman as the most underrated QB ever. I think the familiarity with doing emotional battles with them twice a year every year makes you both hate some opponents (Michael Irvin) and gain amazing respect for others (Emmitt Smith).
But, you neglected to show Randall's most amazing play, which, like most Eagles plays, occurred against the Giants:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQKHOMHKT00
I can watch that for hours.
Right on. His career passing stats are in the same neighborhood as guys like Kerry Collins and Mark Brunell. Not one of the greats, but pretty damn good. Half the GM's in the league right now would sell their souls to draft the next Brunell, Collins, or Cunningham.
Cunningham also put those numbers up while running for his life behind some of the worst offensive lines ever fielded in the NFL. He only started 5 games when he was sacked 72 times in '86, but he played in 15 games because poor, immobile starter Ron Jaworski kept getting pummeled senseless. In the season Philly did the best job protecting him Cunningham was still sacked more than Aikman was in any season of his career. Cunningham could have been one of the greats if he'd had half a chance to develop from a running quarterback that could pass into a drop-back passer that could run like McNabb or Young.
Slightly off topic, but Dr. Z is so far the best football columnist working today that nobody else is even in the picture.
Racist Moe writes:
"Unfortunately intelligence seems to be required to be a really good quarterback, and Vick doesn't seem to have ever had much of it."
Way to perpetuate a false stereotype, Moe. That's the kind of thinking that kept blacks out of the QB position for too many years.
Yes, unclesmedley, you do sound a bit like Rush. Or maybe just someone who never actually had the chance to watch RC play. The dude was a two-time MVP, for fuck's sake. I think one of those might have been split, but whatever. To suggest that he should have been an RB is beyond dumb. Name me another successful RB that is built like Michael Vick, or Randall Cunningham? Now granted, they both probably could have been amazing receivers, but lets not suggest that Vick wasn't an above average QB. That's silly.
Also, saying that Vick had "taken to torturing dogs for a hobby" is a bit trite. And stupid. He trained dogs to fight, so lets not start tripping over each other to pretend how appalled we are.
Enjoy your McChicken.
Fred,
Pointing out that intelligence is required to be a successful QB in the NFL isn't perpetuating any racial stereotypes. The fact that you think it does probably says more about you than it does about Moe. Its not as though he said blacks can't succeed as QB's in the NFL because the position requires a higher IQ.
Stacy,
Moe has accused others of racism for less, so I see no reason to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Fred,
Please don't derail this thread.
No problem, Ta-Nehisi. I've made my point and I'm done.
in fact, pesto, you inspired me to dig up a tribute that dr. z. wrote to cook
Gee, howard, you coulda just clicked on the link I provided to that article in my comment! ;)
Oh, and for the college division of "best career that never was" I nominate Joe Roth, successor to #1 pick Steve Bartkowski as Cal's QB. With Roth under center, and Chuck Muncie at RB and Wesley Walker and Steve Rivera at WR, Cal led the nation in offense in 1975 and tied for the Pac 8 title. Roth was an All-American the next year, even though he played nearly the entire season knowing that he was suffering from a recurrence of melanoma, and knowing that it was incurable. The cancer would eventually kill him at age 21 -- just a month after he played in the Japan Bowl for seniors in February of 1977.
Another a remembrance of Joe Roth is here.
Kind of curious that there isn't more discussion about Cunningham's knee injury. It's the axis on which his career turned. He was noticeably less of a player after that.
The 1992 Philadelphia Eagles team had the second best defense in the history of the NFL.
Had it not been for Green Bay's Bryce Paup slamming into Cunningham's knee, in what I believe was the 1st or 2nd game of the season, those Eagles would have been Super Bowl Champions, and the back-end of Cunningham's career would have had a much different arc.
Dry, I remember that hit. It broke my heart--as a Cowboys fan. That was the greatest defense I've ever personally watched. The Ravens were great, but that D was just impenetrable. I think that--and the year the Viking lost to the Falcons in the title game--were probably Cunningham's best chances. It's also true that he wasn't the same after that.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't Randall and All-America at UNLV as a PUNTER?
(also...E-A-G-L-E-S...EAGLES!!!!)
pesto (i'm probably too late with this since i've been travelling today) but...how embarassing! i took it for granted that your link was to his stats so i didn't bother to click it!
Ta-Nehisi, you're a young man, but take my word for it: as i suspect dry_fish is suggesting, the best defense in NFL history in my estimation was the championship Bears defense (also coached by buddy ryan, after all). The Ravens had the quickest defense i've ever seen, and for year-in, year-out greatness, of course, we have to talk about the Steel Curtain, but for a one-year deal, da bears is it....
the best defense ever was the 1992 eagles. They had ZERO offensive support because cunningham went down just like brady just did. mcmahon was adequate at best for a few games but then he fell apart. then it was some of the worst QBing I ever saw at any level. jeff kemp, brad goebels, and finally pat ryan who they hired off of a roof to play. yet the eagles still went 10-6 SOLEY on the back of the defense.
I remember that defense giving the offense the ball on the 5 yard line and the offense wouldn't score. I remember in the last game of the year that the redskins were going for some least number of sacks record and were denied. i remember that defense leading the league in rushing and passing defense with the offense going 3 and out over and over and over again when they werent turning it over some ungodly amount of times.
it doesnt happen often at all with philadelphia teams, but i really felt proud about that defense's effort and achievement.