Was hilarious. One thing that I was reminded of. Spike was asked if he ever thought he'd see this day. He responded "Never." That is the difference between black men/women and white women. I think a large number of Hillary supporters believe that a white woman could actually be nominated, and Hillary seemed perfectly set up for it. She's also been known among feminists since her college days.
But, as much as Barack came out of nowhere for the country, he completely snuck up on black folks. We never saw this coming. I think that explains a lot of the bitterness. It's not like we've been waiting 30 years for this. A "black president" was the sort of thing you used as a punchline, or as like a cultural symbol of something. But we didn't really think about it as a literal reality. I would not have been surprised--or particularly upset--if I had died without their ever being a black president. But that's the trouble with expectations. I may be now.
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Copyright © 2009 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
Dear Mr. Coates:
Respectfully, the phrase, "he snuck up on black folks. We never saw this coming" makes no sense. There is no such thing as "black folks." I think in any other context - like if anyone else but you were making this statement - you'd probably agree with the notion that turning voices of blacks into a monolith isn't a good idea. Perhaps what you're trying to express is the notion that Obama wasn't really a member of major black activist groups or political communities. But even that doesn't quite work because he was a 20 year member of a major black church, and on top of that, organized in a predominantly black area, and on top of that, wrote a book similar to yours (in terms of influence), about his search for a black identity. I think the bitterness you are trying to put a finger on is not a purely black phenomenon. It is, anecdotally speaking, a part of nearly every minority community in the US to drag down people who go 'mainstream.'
Ali: I think Ta-Nehisi was referring to the bitterness of Clinton supporters, not Obama's? And saying that Clinton supporters (rightfully and understandably!) think of a woman president as something they're entitled to have, and are in fact long overdue for.. whereas many Black people (just as understandably) have thought of a Black president as something that just straight-up wasn't happening, end of story.
So that sense of being deserving of & overdue for winning *might* help to explain how deep the bitterness runs with Clinton's tantalizing near-miss..
Yeah, sorry Ali but as Jay said you need to reread the post. You misinterpreted. It's the fact of Barack, and the success of Barack that snuck up, not the literal person of Barack.
But I do appreciate props on the book:)
"I would not have been surprised--or particularly upset--if I had died without their ever being a black president. But that's the trouble with expectations. I may be now."
You may be what? Surprised now? Or five years ago? No way. Obama will be prez on January 20, 2009. I'll bet you $1000, even odds.
Ali, of course there are "black folks," just as there are white folks. It's not as complex as your analysis. It's a unique American colloquialism, an over-arching cultural, racial term without the baggage of a monolithic construct. At least that's my experience. Obama did come out of left field in any reasonable presidential historical context. Whether it was more of a surprise to black Americans, white Americans, or the ruling class of Planet X, is beyond me. I always thought a white woman would become president long before a black American. I mean take a look at the senate over the past 50 years. How many black senators have there been?
Adin
PS. Is that Jimi in the background? If a 6 turned out to be 9...
"I would not have been surprised--or particularly upset--if I had died without their ever being a black president. But that's the trouble with expectations. I may be now."
This, along with a lot of the other personal aspects you can find in Obama's two books is what makes me as a ridiculously progressive liberal back this not so unconventional politician.
On the one hand, I wish that the Democrats were running a(n) "universal health care, pro-gay marriage, decriminalizer of non-violent drug offenses, hard cap and trade or carbon tax, redefiner of what the goal of public school systems should be" liberal.
On the other is that this is a real chance to press a case that would be weaker in the building. We don't have to suffer through what the conventional wisdom would have the first viable black candidate be- a Colin or a Condi or a newer Keyes.
Remember this and remember this always-
He took on and defeated what the Right has considered the toughest version of the Democratic party since FDR. He in your own words out-Sistah Soljahed Bill. He has basically rendered Jesse and Al mute. And while he may never bring the Malcolm on a national stage, surely it is true that he will not be relegated by his opponents into the same slot as a Martin Jr.
He is not *my* ideal, but he has every ounce of backing I can give him. In a swing state. You couldn't bribe a statement like that out of me in 2004 or 2000.
Yes, we can.
Thanks for clarification.
Marc.
I always felt that a black man would be President before a white woman.
I based this on:
i) black men getting the right to vote before white women
&
ii) black man getting to be on supreme court before woman
&
iii) black men getting far, far ahead than white women in the armed forces.
Of course, that is a completely idiosyncratic bit of reasoning, because you can come up with various examples of there being a white woman preceding a black man i.e. there was a white woman secretary of state before a black man. Also in other parts of the world women of the dominant group came to power before men from the minority groups i.e. Pakistan, UK and India (all three are actually still waiting for the minority group male leader).
I'm 46 years old, and my parents are from County Galway in Ireland. They did a great thing for me and my 4 siblings when I was a kid - they took us to Ireland for long vacations starting in 1969 - every couple of years some of us would go.
My relatives lived in deep rural locations back then - in 1969 electricity hadn't reached many of them, though it had by 1974. But here's the relevant observation.
In almost every one of my relative's homes - and there were a lot - the portrait of JFK was present. More common than the Pope.
This sort of thing matters.
As a very white, middle aged guy, let me say that I definitely will be very disappointed if I do not see a black president in my life time. In either of the two scenarios my family is seriously screwed.
Late in his career Howlin'Wolf did a great song called "Coon On The Moon." I wish I could find the complete lyrics online but I haven't been able to. Here's a portion:
"“You know they call us coons/Say we don’t have no sense/You gonna wake up one morning/And the old coon gonna be the president.”"
And then there's this:
""Just One Big Heart"
for Michael Erlewine
On August 2, 1969,
at the first Ann Arbor Blues Festival,
in an interview with Michael Erlewine
just recently published in Living Blues,
the Howlin' Wolf,
referring to his new song
"Coon on the Moon"
testified as follows:
"Some of them said years ago,
'We will never make it to the moon.' I said:
'You never know.' Today,
we settin' on the moon
& got a flag up there. You understand?
But they told me
that we couldn't do that. Don't never say
what we can't do.
"Next thing,
I'm looking for a man
walkin' down the street
with no head on his body. And
if they say they can't do it,
I'm gonna tell 'em,
'You're wrong. He gonna come down
sooner or later.'
"That's right.
He will have no head
& be all heart,
just one big heart.
Thousands of hippies,
hipped up children,
with great big heads
& tiny hearts,
trying to lose that big head
& get that big heart. The big head
& the hard heart
of rock & roll
& psychedelic music
has gone as far
as it will go. The heart
just has to be developed.
"I'm not a smart man. You see,
I got a little head
& a big heart. That's all I need.
You take people - when they got a big head,
they don't make it far. I'm not
a smart man. You see,
I got a little head
& a big heart.
"You got to know your keynote.
You got to know your notes
from staff to staff. If you don't know your notes
from staff to staff, I can tell
when you pick up your guitar,
you really don't know
what your doin'. I don't mean to be funny,
but if you let me,
I'll show you,
& tell you,
if you will accept it. But if you think
because I'm a Negro,
& you're not supposed to be told nothin',
you understand,
you're wrong. You're supposed to be
told somethin'
by anybody
when you're doin' wrong. Take a learnin'
from anybody. Somebody
can always tell you something.
"I don't have no education, see.
Now you can take my sense
& put it in a paper bag
& it'll rattle like two nickels. But you see,
understandin',
that's all I need. Common sense,
that's all a man needs now-
just get you some common sense
& pass on by.""
I thought Obama would flame out by Super Tuesday.
After that, I thought Obama would muddle through the Potomac Primaries.
Then I thought he wouldn't survive the big Wright shitpile.
I would have shrugged, muttered "we're not ready" and would have voted for HRC without a second thought.
The entitlement of some of the more vocal PUMA-types is astounding. I'm a woman with a lot of opinions. Therefore I grew up with a good idea of how any woman with an opinion is greeted.
However, as a person of color, I also have an idea of what Obama might face.
In terms of personal ambition, however, the baggage that comes along with being a woman of color is mine to deal with. My mother had less opportunities, and I know my job, if I want more, is to carve out more.
It's a test. There was nothing that HRC faced in the primary -- either the negativity of gender issues or her connection to Bill -- that she would not have faced in the general or in the presidency if she had won it. Ditto Obama and race. To shelter them from their responsibilities with special pleading for -isms that no one can control is to deny the fact that they are adults and also seasoned politicians.
i agree with you. i never ever ever EVERRRRRRRRR thought i would see a day where a black man has a serious chance to become president. i always assumed a White Woman would be president long before any person of color.
btw, i am a black woman.
I think the reason people thought a woman would go first is that women are actually the majority of the population. Women could theoretically put one of their own into office without the support of any men at all. This doesn't happen in practice because women don't organize politically on this basis, but it's a theoretical possibility.
African Americans don't have the numbers to pull this off, even in theory. So the question there was how long it would take to find a black candidate with wide appeal to non-black voters. This is hard to predict, because it depends on random "star" qualities of individuals.
Eventually there will have to be room for more female and black politicians who are non-stars. Solid legislators with good committee jobs, viable VPs, and so on. A single star doesn't populate the ranks or get you more votes on legislation. It's a good thing, of course, and it helps move us towards that goal, but the ultimate goal is better representation at all levels. I was thrilled once to vote in a city election that had three women running against each other for mayor, on very different platforms.
For what it's worth:
1) I'm a white male, in my late 30's.
2) I grew up in a very liberal family.
3) I became a conservative in my college years.
4) I have voted for Republicans ever since.
5) I voted for Bush twice. (Um, sorry 'bout that.)
6) I am voting for Obama, and know many other Republicans and conservatives who are doing the same.
I love the man. I love his wife and his family. I look at him, and while disagreeing with many of his actual political beliefs, I see a man of character, integrity, decency, and thoughtfulness. I'm not naive, and don't think Obama can change the world. But I think in his own way, he can heal this country, and restore America's reputation, after 8 years of Bush.
During the (Ohio) primary, I changed my registration from Republican to Democrat so that I could vote for Obama. (The opposite of Limbaugh's "Operation Chaos.")
I will happily vote for Obama as President.
I never saw this coming either.
Actually, Black folk have been waiting for longer than 30 years, Ta-Nehisi.
Did you watch the TVOne Afterparty?
Most of it's drivel, but in between, some good nuggets. Last night's good nugget was Dyson interviewing Charles Barkley. It was pretty moving and on point.
I said awhile ago, whatever my reservations about Obama, the bottom line for me with regards to my vote, was that it was for Mama and for my great-niece. And, I could live with my reasoning for it. Barkley talked about what this race has meant to 'The Elders', and I was feeling him all the way on it.
I think you underestimate. There are plenty of women, even as we sit here today, who remain convinced that they will never see a female President in their lifetimes, that this year was basically their perfect storm and it still didn't happen. You and I may think "oh come on, sure it will happen either with Hillary or with someone else" but in a sense, it's easy for us guys to say.
You're right that a black President was not on anyone's radar screen other than the producers of "24." Even when Obama gave his speech in 2004, the general sentiment was "this guy could be President someday," like, you know, sometime way off in the distant future once we've finally conquered racism. I don't think many people at all thought bang, next cycle, he's the one.
I think Hillary took a lot of hits from people who have had enough of dynasties. The name "Clinton" counted against her as much as it counted for her, and perhaps more.
But I, as a woman, expect to see some serious female contenders come out of the generation after the Baby Boomers. The people in question are probably in their state legislature phase now. Politicians who don't come from dynasties can't start in the Senate.
To Ali: Black men may have had the legal right to vote before women, but anyone with an ounce of intellectual honesty would have to acknowledge that their chances of exercising that vote were slim to none in many parts of the country. Why else did we need to pass the Voting Rights Act?
As for a black man getting on the Supreme Court before a woman -- the hell? Haven't you heard of Sandra Day O'Connor? She was there about a decade before Thomas was appointed.
So yeah -- your argument would be more persuasive if you used actual, you know, FACTS.
Thurgood Marshall started in 1967. Sandra Day O'Connor started in 1981.
As for a black man getting on the Supreme Court before a woman -- the hell? Haven't you heard of Sandra Day O'Connor? She was there about a decade before Thomas was appointed.
Are you joking? Or do you genuinely think Thurgood Marshall wasn't an African-American?
Kerry Reid, what about Thurgood Marshall? He was on the Supreme Court long before both O'Connor and Thomas.
"Also in other parts of the world women of the dominant group came to power before men from the minority groups i.e. Pakistan, UK and India (all three are actually still waiting for the minority group male leader).
Posted by Ali | August 27, 2008 12:03 AM"
I agree with your main point about having long thought a black male president was going to happen before a white female president (my thinking was that a black man, as a man, could still be seen as a protector, while the nation needs to do some growing before they could see a woman that way).
However, India' current Prime Minister is a Sikh and Benjamin Disraeli of the UK, while a practicing Christian, also considered himself culturally Jewish. Identity is too complicated in South Asia and the historical legacy too different for American ideas about what makes one a minority to be much useful in a South Asian context.
I wouldn't say no one saw Obama coming.
Ralph Ellison did.
I won't be voting for Obama, but I do take some small solace in knowing that, even if he wins, a lot of people who have discarded (or completely ignored) politics will take a renewed interest. As a moderate conservative, this may be the short-term detriment of many of the things I believe, but is probably of long-term benefit to the entire country.
I'm still voting for McCain, of course, because he aligns with my ideology far, far, more...but there are some silver linings for folks like myself, even if our guy doesn't win.
I totally agree with you, as a fellow black folk. This is a point that you can seriously generalize on and be right to do so. I'm still expecting him to be assassinated just to keep myself prepared for the worse. This crazy ride has also forced all of us to observe how important race still is and to stop pretending it doesn't exist. We're in an age of denial that is stunting our growth. The bandaid has been ripped off and its hard to watch and acknowledge but its created some good and necessary dialogue.
I was Howlin' Wolf 's chosen photographer, music student and, in some profound ways... he was like a step-father to me
see my site www.howlingwolfphotos.com
99 iconic rare images of Wolf (concert, home, portraits) and a 10 page story about his and my
special connection.. and more
in fact, the man was brilliant and progressive as you can imagine, and all from the heart, as the above article references in his humble words.
Better to have heard and seen him speak that if you ever want to have seen what charisma is and a souldepth beyond what most can imagine.
please add my site as a link on your site if you have any and would, or pass the word.
and if you wish to talk about the mighty Wolf, I'm glad to, anytime.
best regards,
Sandy Schoenfeld