« Tina Fey--sexist | Main | That other bridge » Man, is Vince Young a bust?15 Sep 2008 03:54 pm
Sorry, meant to post this last week. But, really, it's hard to imagine him coming back from this and fulfilling his potential. There are plenty of dumb QBs in the NFL. There are some with weak arms. There are others who seem to always throw a pick at the worst time. But you can not be a QB in this league and be the sort of guy who doesn't want to go back in because you're getting booed. Ever. That just don't fly. It's inadvisable to conduct your life that way. It's impossible to conduct a life in the NFL that way.
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I'm only stating the obvious: Young has some serious emotional issues to deal with. He may end up being a bust (or perhaps he gets some help and pulls it together), but it seems to me like the guy deserves some compassion. That doesn't mean he should stay in the NFL, but I hope we don't go Ryan Leaf on his ass.
Too early to say but all signs point to yes.
He's gonna have his work cut out for him to win that locker room back. He may need to go somewhere else where he can start fresh.
Ironically he was replaced by Kerry Collins, who was ostracized from the Panthers due to if I recall correctly rampant alcoholism and what was perceived to be racism.
He ended up as a backup on the Giants a few years later, worked his ass off to prove the team could trust him, then took them to the Super Bowl.
His career in TN is done. He may be able to make it elsewhere, but I just don't see how he'll be able to get that team back. It seems like a tough situation for everyone...
Kerry Collins didn't just have alcohol problems, he flat out quit. Told his coach he didn't want to play anymore.
If he can cobble back a career, Young certainly can.
I can't see Vince Young's teammates trusting him after all of this stuff has gone on. The NFL isn't a very touchy, feely league, its full of men who think nothing of playing with serious injuries, broken bones, separated shoulders, etc. that would have most of us screaming for an ambulance...not to undercut depression as a serious illness, but its going to be very hard for him to overcome this, and that is assuming that he is mentally even able to overcome it, or wants to overcome it.
Having compassion for Vince Young as a human being is totally separate from whether or not he's a bust in the NFL.
Isn't it time the Houston Texans get mad props for passing on Vince and Reggie Bush to take Super Mario? In the weeks after that Rose Bowl performance, there was enormous pressure from fans to pick Vince (born in Houston and a huge Texans fan). And it's not like the Texans were in great shape at QB. I'm totally gobsmacked that draft turned out so well for Houston.
Vince was always going to be a poor man's Randall Cunningham without the throwing ability... I dont know why anyone seriously thought he'd have a serious career as a NFL QB...
If Young gets his shit together and starts playing well, the locker room will come back to him. That's just how it works. I remember reading that Collins was forever done when he had his problems.
In HS and college, Young was a man among boys. He's so naturally gifted that adversity was pretty minor. If he can learn to enjoy the grind a bit, his career will be fine.
As a Ravens fan, I've suffered through quite possibly the biggest QB bust: Kyle Boller. No matter how bad he played, though, he always at least showed up - even when the fans were booing the hell out of him for fumbling a snap, falling down while dropping back or throwing a ball right into double coverage.
(Of course, he was seeing Tara Reid at the time, so I'm sure he had an incentive to make tons of money playing in the NFL)
Vince Young just doesn't seem to want it enough, and it's sad.
It's possible he can turn things around somewhere else, but I sure don't expect it. There are a dozen Cade McNowns and Tim Couches for every guy like Collins that manages to sort things out and get the career back on track.
As a lifelong Texas Longhorn fan and Vince Young worshiper, I must say that this is both surprising and disturbing. I realize the scrutiny and talent difference is much greater in the NFL than it is in college. But Austin(and the state of Texas) is not a podunk little college town. It is home to rabid football fans, and there aren't much bigger stages than the UT-OU game and the National Championship game in the Rose Bowl against USC.
When he was freshman, and through most of his Soph. year he was considered a 1 trick pony, and there were many clamoring for him to be switched to reciever...until the Rose Bowl against Mich. Until that game all that was said of him was that he couldn't throw, and wasn't smart enough to pick up the finer points of being a QB. All he did his junior year was lead the country in passing effiency, and become the only player in HISTORY to pass for over 3000 yds and rush for over a 1000 yds in a single season(he also completed 65% of his passes).
After all he is only 25, obviously there are some issues goiong on with him. Needless to say I'm rooting for the guy, I just can't imagine someone that talented not ever being successful in the league. He was the R.O.Y. for god-sakes...sorry to get all sentimental, '05 was a magical year and while nothing will take away from that game and moment at the Rose Bowl, this is just depressing to see an icon wilt before ones eye...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8zZRBTOcnY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXKnuuBEZJ8&feature=related
Remember when Ricky Williams quit on his team? He was welcomed back because he has talent, and players, coaches, and teams accommodate talent. Vince will have to deliver on his talent at some point, and he may or may not succeed. But anyone with Vince Young's talent will have multiple opporunities.
Young's pro career has utterly baffled me, and I suspect that it has baffled him as well. At Texas, he was regarded as a minor deity; he made the college game, as he played it, look effortless. But at Texas he struggled as well until he persuaded Mack Brown to change the offense to take advantage of his talents. Texas switched to the zone-read, and it was Katie bar the door. But he was more than just a running quarterback; he also became a much better passer, in terms of efficiency, as a result of that switch.
The several times I've seen him play in the pros, it's always seemed to me that Young has been uncomfortable, that it's not a lack of ability but, as was the case at Texas, his not being in an offense that allows him to make decisions in the moment. But all that notwithstanding, he does indeed have to adjust to the fact that all that adulation from his college days is long past if he's going to make it in the NFL.
Stephen,
Not to minimize your pain and all, But you Raven's fans need some persepctive, yeah Boller was a bust, but biggest ever?
Uh Chargers fans are on line 1 (Do I even need to say the name). The Bengals are on line 2 with Akili Smith. The Lions are on hold and want to talk about Joey Harrington. The Raiders are getting a busy signal but they want to talk about Marinovich. And us Seahawks fans can mention quite a few 1st rouund picks, Mirer, McGwire, Stouffer. The 49ers look like they foudn a GEM in JT Sullivan, too bad they used the #1 overall pick on Smith a couple years ago:-)
Basically I'd say every NFL team has at least one 1st round QB bust in their history, welcome to the club.
By the way, as a Longhorn/Vince Young fan, I feel obligated to point out that Matt Leinart can't even get on the field.
I think a running back who wants to quit football to go smoke weed is not the same thing as a quarterback who wants to quit football in the middle of game because he's getting jeered.
Based on what I've seen and heard of his intelligence, work ethic and mindset, I think him coming back and succeeding is a huge long shot.
And let's face it, most 'successful' college stars are propped up with game schedules that ensure huge, lopsided wins and bowl games...maybe if the NCAA wasn't totally rigged in terms of schedule there wouldn't be so many college stars who turn out to be huge busts in the NFL.
But you Raven's fans need some persepctive, yeah Boller was a bust, but biggest ever?
Yeah. Boller has to fight with Rex Grossman for being the biggest bust in his draft class.
I'll throw my hometown team's pick of Heath Shuler into the eric's mix. Heath makes Kyle Boller look like, well, a starter, anyway.
Can't remember where I came across this Jason Whitlock article on the same topic, but it's really good.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8550254?MSNHPHMA
Brad,
Another good example, like I said every team in the league that has been around a while has at least 1 if not several.
These precious little expansion team fans thinking they are experiencing all these unique things:-) And yeah I know the Ravens aren't an expansion team technically, but come on they basically started over in Baltimore.
Brad L. beat me to it. Congressman Shuler makes a pretty strong case.
Coates, you're being way, way too credulous about what the media is telling you happened. You don't think the team is manipulating how the media perceives Young in this? Then you're very naive. The truth is, you don't know what happened, exactly, and neither do we. I believe in Vince Young. I also believe that a black quarterback in Tennessee is going to face an uphill battle to be accepted by the fanbase no matter what happens.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, the Titans want America to think that their starting quarterback who they drafted for millions is a mentally unstable, suicidal quitter. Makes perfect sense.
Jeff Fisher never struck me as a hysteric, he has to have been legitimately worried about Young or he would not have called the police.
I don't recall the Titans 'fanbase' having had any problems with Steve McNair, maybe because he was a warrior, not a fragile 'baby boy' who needs love and understanding.
Herb-
I read that article as well, I definitely think he has fallen victim to his own greatness. Believing his own hype if you will. I think he has hit rock bottom, not because he is getting booed - he's been booed before, but I think he simply can't seem to get his head wrapped around the NFL game and being an NFL QB. He's never had to push himself in order to succeed, and we'll see if he can figure out how to do that or if he even wants to.
"I also believe that a black quarterback in Tennessee is going to face an uphill battle to be accepted by the fanbase no matter what happens."
Tell that to Tee Martin!!!
"I definitely think he has fallen victim to his own greatness. Believing his own hype if you will..."
I can buy this. Remember when he lost the Heisman to Reggie Bush? Now Vince Young might have thought he was going to win, but no one else in the country really thought that. Yet he acted legitimately shocked and pissed that he got 2nd. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on this...
I gotta say I really feel for Vince Young. I don't think he quit on his team, or that it was just the boos that got to him. It appears the man has some emotional issues. You don't just talk suicide because of boos. You do that because you are likely suffering from some sort of clinical depression and are truly hurting inside.
Yes, I know that this is a big no no for an athlete, and I can't disagree with a lot of the sentiment here that Vince is done in TN. But as a man, I feel for him. I really do. He could be seriously sick. But because we live in a macho world, he won't be able to get the help he probably needs. And it could all spiral out of control and get truly dangerous.
But man, Vince Young was the VERY BEST college player I ever saw. And the proof for that to me is that he beat the very best college football team I ever saw, that Reggie Bush/Lienart USC team, in the best college football game I ever saw.
And Vince Young did it practically single-handedly.
I doubted him before that, but he rose above and proved all the haters wrong.
Now, I gotta believe that if Vince can get real help for his emotional problems - it's highly likely being medicated would help him with this - that he can come back from this.
Especially if he is traded to a team in Texas...
Stacy-
Let me first say that I am biased when it comes to Vince Young. But you are right, he thought he was going to win the Heisman. You are wrong in saying that no one else thought he was going to win. I thought he got robbed(again im biased), but he did lead the country in passing effiency, was the 1st player in NCAA history to have 3000 yds passing 1000 yds rushing. At the time of the Heisman ceremony he was the only player in NCAA history to pass for over 2500 yds and rush for 1000 yds(the Rose Bowl put him over 3000-1000). He led the Longhorns to an undefeated season, and was consistently a monster the whole season.
Reggie Bush was held to under a 100 yrds rushing and recieving 4 times, and didn't score a touchdown against Arizona, Wash. St., or California. I think after the Rose Bowl that year, which took place after the Heisman ceremony, most people will admit that Vince should have won the Heisman.
But as I have already said, I am extremely biased...
Keith,
I feel ya, and I actually wouldn't really argue with you. I'm not saying that no one felt Vince Young didn't DESERVE to win. I'm simply saying that I remember it being very, very clear as to who was GOING to win. I just thought it was amusing when Vince Young was the only person who couldn't believe that he didn't win.
But yeah, VY probably should have won...
But really, I kind of like that attitude out of athletes, and frankly, most great athletes typically act like that.
Jordan couldn't hide his anger those years when Barkley, and Malone robbed him. Jordan knew that he clearly deserved to win, and couldn't believe that everyone couldn't see that.
Pujols couldn't keep his mouth shut a few years ago when Ryan Howard stole an MVP from him.
VY seems to have the same competitive fire, but he seems to be lacking something else. Maybe its thick skin, but it seems like it might be something more troubling. I'd like to see him do well...
Stacy,
I understand and agree with ya. To be honest, looking back I'm glad he didn't win. I think it made him go into that Rose Bowl with an "I'm going to show them" attutude. Maybe all this "he's a bust" talk will have the same effect on him...us fans hope so anyway.
I'm not willing to call Vince a bust yet. In TN, possibly, but not overall. I have to believe a lot of his problems are based on a chemical imbalance. This behavior is just so different than how he was at Texas, and even at Tennessee his first two years.
The most amazing thing about VY was the attitude he brought to Texas fans, his teammates and even Mack Brown. Texas fans were used to the team losing games it should have won. We were some very nervous football fans, but VY changed that. VY got his teammates to believe that they would win the game. He even got Mack to trust him enough to change the offense and loosen up as a coach.
I was at the Texas v. Colorado Big XII Title Game when a win would have put us into the National Championship game and Chris Simms managed 4 turnovers in the 1st half. That was horrible because Simms let us down, but we almost expected it.
The stands at the Rose Bowl when Texas played Michigan were nervous, but we had a feeling we might win, even when we were down. VY didn't always look pretty, but he knew how to win.
By the time of the National Championship game versus USC the mantra had become "Trust in Vince."
Obviously he is having a hard time adjusting to life in the NFL, but I can't believe he could lose all that swagger without something being wrong with his brain chemistry. If that gets fixed, I think he'll be able to get his teammates back on his side.
It's sort of sad that so many people think this is a "football problem" when it's clearly a personal problem. The guy is crying out for help. And not help learning plays. The guy needs medical attention, that much is clear. Listen to his mom talk. Listen to what his coach told the cops. Listen to what Vince told his therapist about suicide.
This is a man who needs help, and it would be nice if for once people realized football is bullshit and there needs to be some concern for Vince Young as a man.
Re Young and Bush:
Just before the draft, a scout on ESPN said "If Reggie Bush can't make it in the NFL, then there is something wrong with the NFL." The same scout then opined that "if you can go to a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer, then there is no reason why you can't go to a Super Bowl with Vince Young."
I think the above quotes say a lot about the NFL, as well as college. In college, with a much more diffused talent levels, supreme physical talent wins out, and you can tailor the system to the talent. In the NFL, you need more than just physical talent, and you don't tailor the system to the talent.
"This is a man who needs help, and it would be nice if for once people realized football is bullshit and there needs to be some concern for Vince Young as a man."
If you are talking about this thread, everyone on here clearly acknowledged that something is wrong with his brain. I didn't see anyone make jokes about that. Everyone seems rather sympathetic, actually, but it doesn't change the fact that Vince Young regressed from season 1 to 2. Now, this may all be caused by a chemical imbalance, but that doesn't mean we can't comment on the different types of offenses he's ran. The sanctimonious bullshit needs to stop.
Now, if you weren't talking about this thread, and you were talking about TN fans in general, then I apologize!!
I didn't mean for it to sound like I was talking about people in this thread.
Mostly, people at ESPN. And granted, they get paid to talk about sports. So I'm not sure who my beef is with.
I guess I just think Vince is really in trouble personally, and the football stuff at this point just doesn't matter.
I totally agree Vince regressed from Year 1 to Year 2, and don't think it had anything at all to do with his emotional balance. Rather, I think he is highly talented but has never been great at schemes, and defenses in the NFL can overcome talent.
I do think that his physical struggles have likely accentuated his mental ones. It's easy to get by in your head when you're cruising, but hard times make the deep down hurt that much more painful.
And yes, I do distinguish between what I think it likely clinical depression of some sort (no, I have no professional expertise, just armchair analyst) from what another athlete, say Tom Brady, would feel after losing the superbowl.
One is normal, the other clinical.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, the Titans want America to think that their starting quarterback who they drafted for millions is a mentally unstable, suicidal quitter. Makes perfect sense.
Actually, it makes an enormous amount of sense, if you are a front office that is responsible for his drafting in the first place. If they can portray Vince Young as a head case, they can slither out of the responsibility for drafting him and the investment the franchise has in him. Which you would understand, if you knew anything about a)football or b)management.
No, it doesn't make any sense from either a football or a management standpoint, it does make a certain amount of sense from a black helicopter, tin hat, conspiracy theory perspective.
Laughs a Minute is right, you know. Some things ARE more serious than others.
As for his football talents?
My personal view as an ex-coach is that JOHN B is correct. Few coaches are willing to change their offenses to take advantage of a single player--and that's their blind spot. The New Orleans Saints tried to force Arron Brooks into the standard mold rather than design an offense suited to his unique talents, and he withered on the vine where his flaws were exposed under the "standard" system. Their new coach Sean Peyton has wisely altered their offense to take advantage of Reggie Bush's unique talents and simultaneously minimize his weak points--and their game performance shows the wisdom of that approach.
Moral? Don't draft a guy with totally unique talents, then strait-jacket him with a business as usually offense.
"If they can portray Vince Young as a head case, they can slither out of the responsibility for drafting him and the investment the franchise has in him."
I might agree with that if had already been made obvious that Vince Young was incapable of being a successful NFL QB. I don't think that's been shown yet. He was the rookie of year, but admittedly, hasn't looked good since then. But really, I think TN would be more worried about actually having their investment pay off as opposed to making him look like a complete head case.
um, did anyone just see that ridiculously horrible play by tony romo in his own end zone???!?!?!?!?!?!!?!
there should be a separate thread just for this game.
Ta-Nehisi:
I've become such a fan of yours, so I'm disappointed in the judgmental tone of this post. VY is obviously in some trouble not entirely of his own making, and I would have expected something a little kinder from you.
Of course, as a UT graduate, life-long Longhorn fan, and someone whose promising career was destroyed by mental illness, I'm not a neutral observer.
Vince has not done as well as expected. I think it goes to not having a support system to fall back on... but having heard him speak & play before I am sure he will bounce back. I dont see him as a quitter. Its just a question of how forgiving his team is and how well he plays when he does get his chance.
i have no special insight into vince young (i wish him well and that's about what i know), but i have felt, since seeing him in college, that what he needed in the nfl was a team with a drop-back qb that was willing to make him an option half.
as several people have already noted, actually finding a coach willing to build an offense around young's talents was, of course, the weakness in that concep.
I certainly hope VY gets whatever help he needs, and that this isn't the end of the line for him professionally. However, he was basically a one-year wonder in college, and even with the sudden surge in less leaden QBs in the NFL, few teams are going to pull an Atlanta and build the entire offense around the QB as principal ball carrier.
That said, I've often wondered why somebody in the NFL doesn't implement something with more option principles - the standard excuse I hear is that there's too much lateral speed on defense to allow an option offense to exploit gaps. But it'd be fun to see...good luck ever getting anyone in the No Fun League to try something more innovative than an extra receiver.
That said, I've often wondered why somebody in the NFL doesn't implement something with more option principles
I believe it's been tried, what happens is the QB gets hurt. What the linebackers will do is hit the QB on every plan and he'll get hurt. The NFL hits incredibly hard, and even much larger RB's last on average 5 years in the league. RB's also happen to be a much more fungible position than a QB. Look at LdT, he already seems to be breaking down and I don't think he's even 30.
JordanT, to follow up on your point, the nytimes yesterday did some back-of-the-envelope calcs based on increased size and speed in the NFL and concluded that they were hitting 25% harder than 30 years ago (F = MA, after all!).
When Vince Young flubbed the Wonderlic, a lot of folks were quick to downplay the importance of that sort of IQ test. His poor performance in the league supports the predictive value of the Wonderlic.
The pro play I remember best from VY was that time he through a long pass for an interception, and was so mad (at himself) that he beelined the length of the field and tackled the safety returning the pick.
He's obviously got issues, but it isn't his heart.
Fred,
The dude won the rookie of the year. He's only played two seaons. I wouldn't call that a poor perfomance. There have been a lot of very good QB's who have done shitty on the Wonderlic. I'm not saying it shouldn't be taken into account, but frankly they were talking about how wrong the Wonderlic was after his rookie season. So who the fuck knows?
When Vince Young flubbed the Wonderlic, a lot of folks were quick to downplay the importance of that sort of IQ test. His poor performance in the league supports the predictive value of the Wonderlic
To follow up on this, from looking at the Wonderlic by position, QBs and O-line score the highest, a few points above average RBs and Receivers score the lowest, a few points below average.
I'd be nervous drafting a QB with a poor Wonderlic score, but I wouldn't care so much if it was a RB.
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228.html
before we start talking about Wonderlic scores:
D.McNabb,Steve McNair,Heath Shuler(I know he sucked, but he is a congressman), Neil O'Donnel, Randall Cunningham, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and Terry Bradshaw all had lower Wonderlic scores than Vince Young.
http://www.macmirabile.com/Wonderlic.htm
When Vince Young flubbed the Wonderlic, a lot of folks were quick to downplay the importance of that sort of IQ test. His poor performance in the league supports the predictive value of the Wonderlic.
Fred seriously is in self-parody territory at all times. He really is.
No, it doesn't make any sense from either a football or a management standpoint, it does make a certain amount of sense from a black helicopter, tin hat, conspiracy theory perspective.
Content-free argument by assertion; everyone's favorite.
D.McNabb,Steve McNair,Heath Shuler(I know he sucked, but he is a congressman), Neil O'Donnel, Randall Cunningham, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and Terry Bradshaw all had lower Wonderlic scores than Vince Young.
Two of those QBs played in the modern NFL. The others played during a time where the offensive scheme was pound the run, and then throw deep.
I don't think era's had anything to do with it. A good QB is a good QB. But since you mentioned it, Jim Kelly through for over 35,000 yards and Dan Marino threw for more yards than anyone not named B.Favre. They hardly played in ground and pound offenses, neither did Randall Cunningham who has similar physical ability to Vince Young. Terry Bradshaw played in a run first offense but still managed to pass for over 27,000 yds.
Two of those QBs played in the modern NFL. The others played during a time where the offensive scheme was pound the run, and then throw deep
Saying that Neil O'Donnel, Randall Cunnigham, Jim Kelly, and Dan Marino didn't play in the modern NFL is one of the most absurdly ignorant things I've ever read. Cunnigham played on the second most prolific passing offense of all time!
VY was a supremely intelligent and confident football player through his first year in Tennessee. He made everyone around him better. Screw the Wonderlic. It is not clear to me what has happened, but the 'VY is done' assertions are a joke. If the VY of two years ago shows up his teammates will be thrilled to have him back.
Mental illness, if that is what is going on here, can strike anyone. I recall Earl Campbell, one of the true warriors of all time, has had issues. I hope Vince is back soon, at his best he is great fun to watch.
Yeah Jordan. "Pound the run and go deep" doesn't exactly describe Buffalo's K-Gun offense of the Jim Kelly era. Randall Cunningham was the Eagles offense. Who was he going to pound the run with? Anthony Tony? William Sherman? More importantly--who was gonna block for those dudes? Dan Marino wishes he could have had the luxury of pounding the ball. No disrespect to Tony Nathan, but come on dude. Furthermore, it's hard for me to fathom that Vince Young is being asked to do much more than Steve McNair, given that McNair was the starter just two years ago.
I think the Wonderlic should be taken into account--just like 40 times, and vertical leaps. But those don't make a great football player. And for the record let's get clear--Vince Young's problem isn't that he's stupid. It's not stupidity that causes you not to want to go back in the game after being booed.
On another note, I know some of you (Fred) want to troll this thread and make it a "black people are stupid" thing. But you should at least know the basic facts of your case.
"D.McNabb,Steve McNair,Heath Shuler(I know he sucked, but he is a congressman), Neil O'Donnel, Randall Cunningham, Jim Kelly, Dan Marino, and Terry Bradshaw all had lower Wonderlic scores than Vince Young"
How many of these guys won a Superbowl besides Bradshaw, who had the benefit of one of the best defenses ever in the NFL?
"I know some of you (Fred) want to troll this thread and make it a "black people are stupid" thing."
As you would say, T-NC, respond to what I said, not what you wish I said. I made a legitimate point in the context of this thread. I brought up the Wonderlic score not because Vince Young is black but because he scored so poorly on it. There have been black players who have done well on the test.
If TN doesn't want Vince Young, please send him to the Dolphins. We'll send you, um, whoever...
Touche Fred. And only Bradshaw won a Super Bowl--but he may the dumbest of the bunch. I don't think Marino or Kelly didn't win because they were stupid.
A fair point, T-NC. Kelly certainly came close to winning one. And I agree that Bradshaw is probably the dumbest of the bunch.
And for the record let's get clear--Vince Young's problem isn't that he's stupid.
The Wonderlic doesn't measure intelligence, the point is it measures your ability to learn. VY had a huge learning curve, since he was thrown into games his first year. Defenses have been able to adjust to him, and he hasn't been able to adjust or learn from it. The score is important for QBs because coaches like to throw them into games far before they are ready. It'd probably be less important if coaches were more willing to wait 2-3 years before putting a new QB in.
BTW, NFL teams in the 90's have no where near the complexity of the offensive or defensive schemes of the NFL today. Defenses especially have become a lot more complex versus those days.
O'Donnell, Marino, and Kelly all came close to winning one. That is a silly point. We could take a sub set of starting QB's who did really well on the Wonderlic, and I'm sure the winning percentages would be similar. But no, I'm not going to look it up...
For the record, he did go back i the game and did legitimately get hurt. But I completely understand the doubts, he has not gotten better and that speaks to his drive and work ethic.
On a seperate note, can we get a seperate thread about underated bad asses in the NFL. My early pick, Jason Witten. Dude seperates his shoulder in the 2nd quarter last night, goes to the locker room, pops it back in place takes a shot and comes out to catch 6 more passes for over 100 yards.
then ther is this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCVy8sVqBm4
"The Wonderlic doesn't measure intelligence, the point is it measures your ability to learn."
This is false. The Wonderlic test is an intelligence test by definition. It has nothing to do with your ability to learn.
Young is dumb, or possibly crazy. I'm not even talking about the Wonderlic thing, just look at his interviews, comments about retiring, etc. This isn't a white/black thing either; Coates rightly pointed out that Terry Bradshaw is a complete idiot.
Young also has a weak arm. It's true, seriously. That throwing motion just eliminates any possibility of firing it in there.
Young makes bad decisions.
Young is a great athlete and also does seem to perform well under pressure. He is also benefitted by a great defense.
As a commenter mentioned earlier, Young is still much better than Matt Leinart, who is basically Vince Young without athleticism.
Of course, my namesake will be the best quarterback from this draft.
Per wikipedia,
"The Wonderlic Personnel Test is a twelve-minute, fifty-question intelligence test used to assess the aptitude of prospective employees for learning and problem-solving in a wide range of occupations."