Too old school?
Moby.
You ain't gonna find whiter... and I don't recall a whole lotta guitar.
]]>And BTW, a lot of electronic music is "black" music. Do the history on Detroit Techno.
]]>The glaring absence in yr integration tale would seem to be the blues. Black folks with guitars. Discuss.
]]>What got me was the Beatles. Yes, the guitar is there, but it's melodic and lovely. Michelle? Girl? Hide Your Love Away? The reasons I started openng my mind. I was way more into r&b than hip-hop in my teens. They had songs I wanted to sing along to- the end.
I can't think of any white music without electric guitar. Except like, Enya, which no one should subject themselves to. And of course soft jazz, which IMO is white music now.
Hmm. I'll have to do some itunes review.
Also, how are you feeling about the fact that the white girls are kinda keeping r&b alive right now? Amy Winehouse? Black musicians don't really mke straight r&b a much as they used to even five years ago- it's all hip hop.
]]>Probably not. God help us when an entire generation of black folk don't know shit about real music. We're fucking doomed...
Best line ever!
]]>You can't say that it's only the white boys with the love of the guitar though. Throw on some Isley Brothers tracks from the 70s - full of blazing guitars and the wah wah peddles.
One thing it took me awhile to get used to about "white music" in college was the total lack of bass. My roommate 1st year introduced me to tons of music I love 'til this day, but man, he would kill my ears by turning the treble all the way up and the bass all the way down. We had good fun comparing record collections (yes, records - it was the mid 80s), and realizing my blues albums and his Zeppelin cuts were exactly the same. Literally.
One more thing on our musical apartheid - have you noticed that rock stations will occassionaly play The Beastie Boys (or Vanilla Ice back in the day) but no other hip-hop, yet you've never hear Lenny Kravitz or In Living Colour on a black station?
]]>Forget that - go straight to Betty LaVatte and Sharon Jones.
]]>It is truly terrifyingly bad. Almost as bad as most hip-hop now. Why is hip hop so terrible today? I remember when I loved it enough to look past they misogyny...
]]>I can't think of a whiter form of music than introverted, ambient electronic music. Guys like Aphex Twin, Autechre, and Boards of Canada.
]]>It's also interesting that you start off by mentioning Chuck Berry (though not Ike Turner, who literally invented piano-based rock)... Berry was key to almost everything in the indie-rock movement. Look at the garage bands throughout history, and they're still playing the same three chords he did on, well, every song. All the "white" bands that're considered '60s legends now (Led Zeppelin, the Beatles, the Who, the Rolling Stones -- hell, even ? and the Mysterians) were influenced more by black musicians than anything else.
Out of curiosity, just how deep have you dug, Ta-Nehisi? 'Cause there's loads of "white music" that doesn't necessarily sound as such. I mean, Van Morrison basically came up doing soul ballads. Most of the mid-'60s Beach Boys records (you know, the really GOOD ones) barely feature any guitar at all (or guitar in a very muted, almost orchestral sense). Same goes for the Zombies ("Odessey and Oracle" is a classic). For a more international fair, try Welsh rockers Gorky's Zygotic Mynci, who rock harder with a violin than just about anybody around (but no, it's not blaring; and they do some really "pretty" stuff, too).
Frankly, a lot of what I've called your attention to is "white shit." I wouldn't blame you for dismissing much of it as such. But if my best bud could find room in his heart for Weezer (does it get any whiter?), I can only presume that you can find some room in your heart for some white shit, too.
]]>Folk music: their guitars do not blare.
John Cage: probably no guitars, but may not be considered to be "music."
Polka: no guitars whatsoever.
Klezmer bands: no guitars, but may be considered "off-white" or something.
(This list will probably not help. Sorry.)
]]>Simon & Garfunkel. (Maybe too old?)
They Might Be Giants (Maybe too underground/dorky?)
Billy Joel (Maybe too Billy Joel?)
There's a lot of guitar-light hot alt-rock these days. Try New Pornographers or Shout Out Louds, Postal Service for a more electronica sound....
]]>Jens Lekman and Super Furry Animals are good examples from more recent times.
]]>Steely Dan should be the official band of whitedome.
]]>Rasputina is white girls with electric cellos, not guitars.
Does anyone know if Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds use lots of guitar? Or The Magnetic Fields? Or the Sparks, or Oingo Boingo, or Devo?
I really wish I could pull out the ipod and give them a listen before I post this, but work frowns on that. Those might be good places to look, at least.
]]>In terms of white artists that don't go guitar-crazy, how about R.E.M? Much U2? They Might Be Giants? (early) Dylan?
]]>More signs of the apocalypse.
]]>i think trying to find "white music" without guitars is like trying to find hip-hop without samples or drum loops. but if you are looking for bands that don't worship the guitar like the phallic symbol that it is i think you look no further than radiohead.
]]>See, intuitively, this may seem correct. But every single one of my black guy friends like Steely Dan a lot. Steely Dan are some groovy mothers. Kanye sample 'em!
]]>I did point out in your initial "get to know me" post that Kevin Saunderson, Derrick May and Juan Atkins (along with a whole host of others, lets not slight the plus-8 generation that followed) get very little attention (outside of simon reynolds--the 'white rave aesthete').
Reynolds talked about parties in suburban detroit that were 100% black, many were themed/tied into fashion posses, and incorporated alot of new wave and early krauty rock.
Lonnie B, who to my knowledge still does a good throwback show on 92.1 in the cap city (where Arthur Ashe and Stonewall shoot some stone silent shit), had some days where he was spinning Kraftwerk back-to-back-to-back...
recommendations for non-guitared 'white' tunes:
Estradasphere: Palace of Mirrors
Secret Chiefs Three: Book M
Benevento Russo Duo
but fergawd's sake don't get sucked into the indie-standard "distortion = call it a day" shite. There's more to life than frantically waving your guitar over an amp.
]]>Purple, of course.
Lots of great ripping guitar on those Funkadelic albums, too.
And there's always Love.
]]>When I made the jump, it was almost exclusively via instrumental music. I started listening to jazz, which is the best education in isolating each instrument. Listen to Coltrane and Ornette Coleman, listening to each track 4 times, each time isolating a different instrument. It wasn't that hard because it's the same as isolating samples and dats in hip-hop beats.
After that, I started listening to instrumental and instrumental-esque indie bands like Don Caballero, June of 44 and The Sea and Cake. Then post-OK computer Radiohead (Kid A mainly). Then lots of Nick Drake because I studied poetry and needed good lyrics.
]]>Ever since then, I have found the music snobbery from both sides as pretty ridiculous.
]]>One of my top 10 albums ever and nary a electric guitar (in fact, it was recorded with what was essential a Jazz quartet and a guitar).
The best piece of Music Journalism (or reviews) I've ever read is by Lester Bangs and is about that very album.
Google "Lester Bangs AND Astral Weeks review" and thank me......
As for non-guitar "white music"
THC:
I am a white boy who took the same journey you made in college. In my HS, only hip-hop and R&B was acceptable for my image, but once I decided that image based music preferences were Bullsh*t, I was free to truly enjoy my CD collection. I know not everyone is as susceptible to peer pressure as I was in High School, but I've had conversations with black peers in college and beyond that expressed a similiar concern with being seen as "white" or as corny.
]]>Guitars *and* beats.
(I love guitars. Maybe it's a west coast thing.)
]]>When I think of "white music" I think of two threads. Folk music from the British Isles, which came to America and became bluegrass. But that had some black music influence, I'll bet. And then there's the classical music: "pop" at the time, like Haydn, Mozart, Johann Strauss. That's authentically white.
These days, I think of bluegrass and C&W as "white music". But then when you consider artists such as Alison Kraus, and Nickel Creek it's more of a jambalaya. These artists listen to everything, including hip hop and heavy metal, and it all seems to filter back into a strict bluegrass/folk performance. You can hear the Beatles and Ray Charles in this stuff.
So, while I don't think there's any such thing as "white" or "black" music these days, there are definitely "white" and "black" artists. And I'm not talking about skin color.
It wasn't that I avoided the genre as a whole, I just didn't know what the good stuff was. It wasn't until I had college roommates and friends from the other side of town that I was introduced to Common, Fela, Rakim, etc.
Have you checked out the Dirtbombs at all? Fantastic garage rock from Detroit that pays homage to both the Stooges and Motown...
]]>They were OUT there for the late 60's early 70's and "Forever Changes" is one of the most underrated and underappreciated albums ever.
It always amazes me that somehow their story got lost in the mix......
]]>Tori Amos.
Liz Phair.
Ani DiFranco.
Jewel.
Indigo Girls.
Sarah McLachlan. (Hell, Lilith Fair)
White. Sensitive. New-Age.
]]>are quality bands that have no guitars, just to name a few. we could of course get into a whole electronica section that is "white" but has no or very few guitars.
]]>The Kinks belong on that list, especially since Dave Davies' riffs on "You Really Got Me" and "All Day and All of the Night" introduced power chords to the pop music masses. But their mid-late 60s output, all the way through the Preservation albums, has a lot of non-guitar-based songs.
And Ta-Nehisi, since you mentioned Bjork, you might want to listen to one of her musical ancestors: Essential Logic, headed by the brilliant Lora Logic (ex-sax player of X-Ray Spex). Still a fair number of guitar-based songs, but weird and inventive, especially vocally.
Jaybird,
Barbara Manning puts all of your mid-90s alt-rock women to shame.
]]>Charlie Pride.
For good "white" music sans gutair check out Let Love In by Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. Seriously I don't know why he doesn't get more play.
]]>Perhaps this is a question for Ta-Nehisi- what about Bjork was easy to get into? It can't just be the lack of guitars.
]]>I literally just went on Ebay and bought Love's "Forever Changes." I better not be disappointed or you owe me $13.88.
]]>I get your point and agree, but this whole idea that one culture created rock is bullshit. Like all great American art it was born of a fusion of influences. Hank Williams, Pentecostal crackers and American folk themes added just as much to the gumbo that is Rock. Black musicians stole from whites as much as white musicians stole from blacks. It's what musicians do. The problem was the white artists got paid for their thievery.
"See, intuitively, this may seem correct. But every single one of my black guy friends like Steely Dan a lot. Steely Dan are some groovy mothers. Kanye sample 'em!"
No argument here Stacy. To me they are proof that no race holds a monopoly on groovy. Which is why they should be our official band.
]]>Other than that, my opinion is that black people own American music, at least the American music that is worth listening to over time and I am talking about time in decades.
]]>Midlake(can be sampled on you-tube)
The Shins-"Pink Bullets"
Silversun Pickups
The Brian Jonestown Massacre
The Dandy Warhols
surprised nobody has mentioned Sublime
and last but not least-Rage Against The Machine
I promise, good stuff (if not, I'll paypal you)
Funny, someone said Radiohead is "good 'white music' w/out guitars." I am going to venture to say that to this person, Radiohead only exists between Kid A to the present (and this guy was apparently in a coma when Hail to the Thief was released in 2002).
If you buy the Bends, you will see the Radiohead essentially invented the 90's style GUITAR rock that Coldplay, Travis, and the like made popular in the late 90's. In fact, most think Kid A and to a lesser extent, OK Computer were made in response to all the biting by Guitar driven Brit-pop bands.
One final Gem, since we're talking about genere/race defying music: Shuggie Otis.
If you want to know what Prince would have been like, if he was born about 10 years earlier, here you go.
Nina Simone is hard to beat, and Sinner Man is her best song.
]]>A black co-worker asked me to burn some good "white boy music" CDs for a road trip she was taking. I threw here some Dylan, Bowie, Stones and Beatles mixes along with a few others. She dug most of it, but is now officially a huge Dylan fan.
]]>I think the formulation has a lot to do with the fact that much of American "white music" is a crass distillation of black musical tradition. I think there's a very real difference in holding onto one of the few things you got as an oppressed peole compared to lording your power over the oppressed. It is wrongheaded to equate white supremacist thinking with the black frustration with their art being appropriated at every point in history.
]]>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL4MbTGjB7U
Anyway, is it blaring guitars that are specifically objectionable, or simply music that is guitar-centered? A lot of non-blaring "white" music is still centered on the guitar, but these days it seems we are in a down cycle of guitar dominance. Bands like Animal Collective or any of their spin-offs have very little guitar going on.
I can appreciate a blaring guitar, but my favorite guitar music these days is all African - East African benga, soukous, and so-called "desert blues" from Mali and places north. Guitar yes, but there is not an iota of whiteness about it.
Other examples of no-guitar white-guy music:
Dave Brubeck (never heard a guitar in one of his compositions yet)
Herb Alpert (like the early Tijuana brass stuff, don't care for the '90s stuff so much)
Chuck Mangione
It's one of the very best 60s records. And I mentioned Love here first.
]]>If you want no guitars but more of the gritty vibe that might appeal to a hip-hop fan - check out Morphine - bass, sax and drums. No guitars, still rocks.
I think the reason "guitar" music is "white" music is because rock guitar bands often downplay rhythym and groove in favor of bombast, volume and unusual, and even dissonant, harmonic intervals. It's easier to do that with one amplified guitar than with a symphony orchestra. Hard rock and punk rock arguably owe more musically to Wagner, Beethoven and Central European brass bands than they do to the blues.
]]>I'd listen to "Nude" on the new album "In Rainbows." The track is a gem -- and possibly a doorway into the rest of their catalogue which is excitingly experimental, often moving, and never indulgently out there to the point of sacrificing musical interest and beauty. They are remarkable musicians.
The lyrics are often inaccessible, but not irritatingly so and they occasionally hit a nerve just right. From Nude: "Don't get any big ideas/they're not going to happen... Now that you've found it it's gone. Now that you feel it, you don't."
Finally: one of the great contributions of "white music" at least from the classical music world is its structure. Musical thoughts are developed through carefully conceived sequences (rather than repetitive loops and simple formulaic structures). I guess one of the appeals of a lot of "white" music is its architectural beauty in that regard. It doesn't make less structured music less beautiful, but it's another quality to appreciate.
Almost to a track, Radiohead has cleverly and interestingly constructed musical thoughts. If you can hear something appealing in Nude the rest of their catalogue is worth a deep dive. They are the last interesting major "rock" band for my money and they are still at their creative peak which is a kind of warm comfort in a bleak "rock" landscape where rock energy is largely splenetic anger and the excitement and sexuality of earlier rock has moved to hip-hop and left no forwarding address.
]]>I can't believe no one has mentioned this great Chappelle skit on exactly this subject:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL4MbTGjB7U
I ws just talking to some British dudes, trying to explain the genius of Chappelle, and seeing as how they'd never get the Wayne Brady or Rick James sagas, this was my example.
Love it!
]]>I don't miss music snobs (way more annoying that literary snobs) but I miss finding new good stuff.
]]>I knew this conversation reminded me of something. Peep this link to an article in the New Yorker last year by music critic Sascha Frere Jones.
It's about the trend of 'white music' or white musicians of modern times eschewing the rhythym based rock of their forefathers (i.e. Zepplin and the Stones and all the other great blues appropriators) and asks why groups like Arcade fire seem to have a real aversion to a good bassline.
http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/musical/2007/10/22/071022crmu_music_frerejones?currentPage=3
]]>Yeah, I saw you mention them earlier in the thread. I don't know much about them, but after two of you talked about how badass they are, I was sold...
RE: Radiohead
They have two of the best guitarists in rock. Not sure how anyone could listen to "In Rainbows," or "Hail to the Thief," and not saying they have a lot of guitars.
RE: Morphine
Can't believe I didn't think of them. Very white. Zero guitars. Lots of sadness. Lead singer died from a heart attack on stage. Love 'em.
]]>
that said, I'm not sure I'd call the Twin "ambient," (some of his work certainly is), but considering the term was coined by Brian Eno, yeah, white probably applies to much of ambient.
definitely check out Aphex Twin aka Richard D James aka AFX. The Analord series in particular includes some of the most intricate, intense, organic, beautiful music I've ever heard, and the dude is an absolute master of drum programming, so in some way he's tied at a deep structural level to hip hop.
relevantly, see his skewering of commercial hip hop video tropes in the probably NSFW video for Windowlicker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P3Wc-37pC4
also: not my favorite of the Analords, but a strong exemplar I think nonetheless: http://hypem.com/track/465766/AFX-Crying+In+Your+Face
]]>Dexy's Midnight Runners used nothing but horns and fiddles on their 2nd album "Too-Rye-Ay". Their overlooked first album was very soul influenced. It even had a song about Geno Washington.
XTC had an interesting guitar attack on the albums "Drums and Wires" and "Black Sea" before softening their sound on the excellent "English Settlement".
One of my favorite bands right now is a band called Let's Active, part 70's power pop and 80's college rock. The electric guitars are important here but have a real special, chiming sound to them. Mitch Easter is the mind behind this band and he might be the "whitest" man alive with his high nasaly vocals. Look for the album "Afoot" and/or "Cypress".
]]>Minus The Bear-"White Mystery" a good track
Modest Mouse
Mute Math
Primus
Speechwriters L.L.C.
and for those who haven't seen the original video, it's a can't miss: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjAoBKagWQA
]]>the tracks he released under this name are probably my favorites of his.
]]>But one can't mention Waits without mentioning Leonard Cohen. If Waits' smoke and whiskey ravaged sounding voice belongs to the Devil, then Cohen's voice is God's. Like Waits' "Rain Dogs", Cohen's "The Future" album must be heard to be believed; it stretches from pop, to blues, to country to something approaching gospel.
Both will speak to you, on so many occasions, for years to come.
]]>Crosby, Stills, Nash (and sometimes Young).
]]>http://hypem.com/track/577101/Animal+Collective-The+Purple+Bottle
http://hypem.com/track/529403/Animal+Collective-Reverend+Green
- pulp
- andrew bird
- brian eno
- serge gainsbourg
- the black keys
- detroit cobras
- the kinks
But more to the point: there may be white audiences and black audiences, but there sure ain't ever been black music and white music. Listen to Louis Armstrong and Jimmie Rodgers on "Blue Yodel #9" if you don't believe me.
]]>I also think the claim that white music is just "watered down black music" to be BS, because there has been plenty of mixing of musical traditions going back and forth many times over. And tons of white music derived from black music is amazing, not watered down, and it's insulting to say otherwise.
However, it's also a little insulting for you to say that because particular instruments are European in origin, the music is as white as it is black. You can make that argument the other way: bluegrass owes a ton to folk music of the British isles, but the banjo is an African instrument.
Also, the honky-tonkers who influenced Ray Charles got their sound from the blues originally, transformed it, and then Ray transformed it again. But it's black in origin.
The rhythms of Africa are the basis of nearly all non-classical music in the Americas, North and South. So, while "watered down" is arguable, the black foundation of music in this country is not.
]]>As others have mentioned (but I'll mention again), it is incredibly ironic that a black man from Chicago would complain about electric guitars, since modern electric guitar music was kinda invented by black men in Chicago. And Detroit (don't sleep on John Lee Hooker!!!). Iggy Pop basically conceived of the Stooges (arguably the greatest ROCK band of all time) while slumming in clubs on the South and West sides of Chicago.
]]>Also, to build off what Mad Mike said, anyone who thinks house or disco is gay Euro shit should come to Chicago.
]]>Incidentally, blaring guitar is also what separates a lot of European pop from American Pop.
]]>Can't believe I didn't think of them. Very white. Zero guitars. Lots of sadness. Lead singer died from a heart attack on stage. Love 'em. "
Mark Sandman, yeah - that was a big loss. I knew him a little bit, record store conversations over the years. I'd see him in a record store and then half an hour later we'd both be in a small mystery book store nearby.
]]>"Charlie Pride."
Stoney Edwards was a much hipper black country singer...check out "Blackbird" or his cover of Jesse Winchester's "Mississippi, You Been On My Mind."
Also, while Ray Charles is best known for his country and western "songbook" albums, soul singers from Solomon Burke, to Candi Staton to Joe Simon, Joe Tex and O.C. Smith have recorded killer country and western ballads that have authentic southern flavor.
The Brits are great for bridging the electro-pop/guitar rock divide. Massive Attack and Pop Will Eat Itself still stand up well on this score.
But eventually you're just going to have to lean into it, and listen to enough guitar to distinguish good from bad. Good punk (the Clash on London Calling, anything by Radio Birdman) post-punk (Pixies, My Bloody Valentine, Sonic Youth) or Frank Zappa create their own categories in your mind.
]]>How about Fat Boy Slim? He's a lad from Middle England, as white as anyone from the UK will ever be. Think: rainy afternoons,tepid beer and chips, or french fries, with vinegar splashed all over them.
But he is a great musician and dj, who did some brilliant stuff, esp on You've Come a Long Way, Baby, and his work for the Beat Boutique.
No guitars there. Well, maybe in the background, but no swinging around of long unwashed hair.
And how about Massive Attack? They are sort of post-racial, with black and white musicians doing a post-trip-hop-Pink-Floyd-meets-Marvin sound. Some very sharp music.
Maybe your answer lies in places like Britain and to a lesser extend in Holland and France, where the music scene is not as segregated and everybody plays with everybody else, and the public loves anything which is good and different and fresh. Regardless.
]]>No insult intended. I wish I had thought of the banjo reference. I didn't mean to imply that the instruments make the music white. My point was we never would have heard jazz or blues if African music traditions hadn't met European instruments and styles of playing. Just as Blue Grass wouldn't exist as it does today without the African banjo.
"Also, the honky-tonkers who influenced Ray Charles got their sound from the blues originally, transformed it, and then Ray transformed it again. But it's black in origin."
The fact that they transformed blues proves that they were melding black influences with an already existing white music tradition. Also, the Blues didn't arrive from Africa as a fully realized music style. It was born from African music mixing with the instruments and styles of what was already here. So yes the music was black in origin, but that was only part of the origin.
"The rhythms of Africa are the basis of nearly all non-classical music in the Americas, North and South. So, while "watered down" is arguable, the black foundation of music in this country is not."
Yes African rhythms are part of the foundation of American Music, but so are traditional folk imagery and lyricism, Anglo church hymns and Native American chants. My point is that music is not a one way street. Influences flow both ways.
And there are no guitars
]]>Keep bangin, TNC.
]]>Lyle Lovett. Great songwriting with wit, guitars always tastefully done.
The Band, especially "The Band": the greatest Americana record of all time, although it predates the term.
]]>Thanks for the info I will definately check out stoney edwards.
I also have to give a bump to paul simon's graceland album.
]]>Brian Auger's Oblivion Express is pretty damn cool, too.
Traffic is also a great band to check out.
Needless to say, I'm in my fifties.
]]>However, please allow me to throw some heretical ideas into the mix here. I believe, like Ayn Rand, that simply because you might be considered part of a race or group doesn't mean the feats of individuals within that group are any more your birthright than they are mine. So what if Marvin Gaye was black, if you can't sing like Marvin Gaye, then you get no credit. To paraphrase Ms. Rand: It is racism to ascribe moral, social or political significance to a man's genetic lineage, to judge a man, not by his own character and actions, but by the characters and actions of a collective of ancestors.
Don't get me wrong, I am no Objectivist, but I do appreciate her clear-headed attack on racist notions, whatever else she got wrong. This discussion reminds me of her warning not to boast about your ancestor's or your tribes achievements, "as if the achievements of one man could rub off on the mediocrity of another." In other words, if you wanna feel good about who you are, go out and do something instead of sitting around talking what a badass your daddy was or how someone who might be related to you built the pyramids or first sailed around the world. If you built a pyrmamd or a boat, great, if you didn't, you don't get any glory from those who did.
Now, as a musician, I suggest all forms of music belong to all men and women. This idea that Led Zeppelin or the Rolling Stones "stole" the blues chords and songs they were playing is only viable if you also indict every black blues player who heard a song from another black guitarist that he liked and played it. Did Wynton Marsalis "steal" that Bach stuff he plays? In this paradigm there can be no sharing of music that is not "stealing," except the racist underpinnings of this idea be exposed. Then black musicians can only play "black" music and white musicians play "white" music etc. And then we would have to fire Wynton Marsalis and restrict him to only playing jazz, and apparently only certain kinds of jazz, since other kinds are becoming "white." This is so stupid the whole notion always makes me angry. I am living in Japan and just saw a Japanese duo playing blues last night. I guess I should have gone on stage and taken their instruments until they were clear that they could play only Japanese traditionals. I can't object to this idea enough that there is "white" music or "black" music.
In fact, the fellow that noted that blues did not arrive formed and whole from Africa is absolutely right. The blues (minor) chord structure was infused with the English/Irish ballad form and produced what we know as the modern song structure. This kind of mixing is common and more recent example can be seen in Tejano music, which comes from the ranges of Texas, where the German immigrants had the accordians and polkas and the caballeros brought their Flamenco guitars and they mixed them. The result is neither polka nor flamenco, but something completly new. Music is a complete mix-up and no one idea is traceable whole and entire to a particular author. Music is about the blending of different sounds and notes to form a coherent whole, and all forms should be accepted and played or blended by whomever has the notion to, race or origin be damned.
...Except for that Bjork shit - that's too damn white. ;)
Judging by the post I'm going to assume acoustic guitars are okay unless someone can point me to something saying they aren't.
Rock/Alt-rock (Just any I can find that don't use electric guitars much or at all)
Tori Amos - There are occasional electric guitars, I think, but it's usually not central. At least not in the earlier albums.
Fiona Apple
Five for Fighting
Ben Folds
The Fray
Hmm my minds blanking.
Pop & Folk-rock
Vanessa Carlton
Judy Collins
Julee Cruise
Donovan
Nick Drake
Jewel
Gordon Lightfoot
Sarah MacLachlan
Don McLean
Van Morrison
Bonnie Raitt (I don't think she plays electric)
The Rascals (I don't think they were electric)
And I know tons of black people that worship Joni Mitchell and Kate Bush-you don't get whiter than them and they are brilliant.
I feel more and more that hip hop and R&B (I hate that term but I can't think of another one)aren't very imaginative and fun like they used to be in the late eighties/early nineties-so I have happily gone somewhere else to find interesting stuff.
]]>Half of beatport.com is white guys with no guitars.
]]>Mormon music from before 1970.
New England "roots music" whatever that might contain.
The "roots music" of Scandinavia, except maybe Finland which might be more Asian influenced.
Renaissance music (Asian influences I don't think occur as much as they would in the classical era)
]]>1. Robert Randolph and The Family Band (go to early material and archive.org shows)
2. Pnuma Trio
3. DJ Williams Projekt
...and Baroque, Classical, the Romantics, the Moderns, grand opera,.......
Enya? You mean Eithne, of Clannad. That's a whole separate classical tradition. And indeed, it is a little too refined for crude Saxon ears, so you really can't be blamed for your inability to appreciate it.
"But Negroes think they invented music, thus music that they don't see as there own is "white music," an exception, viewed skeptically and often derisively."
True, I once heard someone insist, insist, that "Amazing Grace" was actually an African tune that the writer heard while skippering a slave ship. And she had no excuse; she was a trained musician.
]]>I'm thinking of Ben Harper. He is a guitarist and most of his music features his abilities, but I would not call it "blaring"... Of course I've been listening to "white music" all my life, so my perspective might be off.
]]>The creators of the music, the instruments, the notation systems, the music theory, the recording gear, the reproduction systems, and all the other bits and pieces used to create and recreate music come from so many different ethnic groups that to "assign" them such rigid labels strikes me as wholly ridiculous.
Every musical composition depends on hundreds or thousands that came before it. The chain of creation goes back so far and in so many different directions that all this color-assignment is intellectually bankrupt.
]]>"Third-wave" ska changed this all for me. I began liking ska because of the horns and the reggae sounds and early Bob Marley songs. But MU330 and Mustard Plug mixed the horns with heavy guitars. And going to enough ska shows made me feel the power of a power chord.
I don't know if ska is still gonna convert anybody to guitar-heavy rock, since it isn't 1997 anymore. But it might not have been about the ska, but really about the live show. I find it hard to believe that anybody who is moved by music isn't going to be moved by the Hard Lessons or Imaad Wasif in a small bar.
But tastes change too. Now not a week goes by without Maggot Brain or Hardcore Jollies or some other Funkadelic in my cd player, but I can't remember the last time I played any Parliament.
I echo the klezmer comment as well. Golem, Gogol Bordello, Eastern Blok and others are making some funky, danceable, rocking music right now.
You make a good point, but there is something to tradition: in the South and occasionally the North, you had itinerant musicians, mostly black, playing blues, mixing and matching, and definitely "stealing" from one another - it's difficult to know how much was sharing versus stealing. And a few, very few, made some money.
The Stones and Zepp and other bands took songs from published records, recorded them, sometimes transformed and sometimes not, without giving any credit to the musicians who wrote them. And without credit, no royalties. Led Zep had to reinstate Willie Dixon's name on some of their classic songs recently after a lawsuit.
So yes, stealing.
No doubt all this music is the result of mixing. But it's no surprise to me that blacks may have a proprietary sense of "their" music given how much of it has been appropriated without credit.
]]>No blaring guitars and lots of left-wing lyrical content. You'll love it. He even has an anti-Bush song about Katrina.
]]>like, shit, you know: the british invasion and psychedelic aftermath of the mid to late 60s, UK and new york punk and post punk from the late 70s and early 80s, mid 80s indie and hardcore, early 90s "grunge" etc. there are outliers and whatnot, yeah, but music that was created around the same time and place carries a lot of the same touchstones and influences.
pick up some books on the different eras. or just do what i did and listen to your friends.
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