« A point about the beauty of blogging | Main | Beef is not what Jay said to Nas... » McCain Thuggism Pt.34848409 Oct 2008 01:12 pm OK, not so much thuggism. But incredible, incredible ignorance. Courtesy of Andrew, of course, who's been on it when it comes to the thug-watch. I'm working hard here not to slander conservatives. This isn't the whole base, but this is pretty vile, and its McCain's most motivated supporters. Incredible. Note how she buys the CRA line that conservatives have been pushing. UPDATE: Again, watching this, I'm not feeling much anger. It's just incredibly sad. Just really sad. This is either 1.) The past, and this is sad, because these guys are being left behind or 2.) The end. And thus sad because this country is going to eat itself. Also, as I've said before, I don't ever want to hear any talk about conspiracy theories, culture of ignorance, or anything like that in reference to that black community. We've all got our issues. Comments (79)Comments on this entry have been closed. |
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Andrew just posted:
I think Palin was a reverse enema, where everything but the shit leaves.
They can see she is one of 'them', and so they are shouting louder and louder.
But it's the silence which will decide it.
t-nc,
it is pure thuggism.
you had it right at first.
just because she isn't throwing gang signs, it doesn't mean she isn't conducting herself in a thuggish manner.
No wonder they think Barack is "elitist." You can't get much more lowest-common-denominator than these yokels and rubes.
It's like this New Yorker article come to life: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/10/13/081013fa_fact_packer
So Obama is a foreign Muslim domestic terrorist who believes in European socialism?
Holy cow, that's hilarious.
Can we just call this what it is? McCain/Palin are legitimizing this kind of stuff with their rhetoric and this rhetoric is actually PUTTING THEIR OPPONENT'S LIFE AT RISK.
It may not be "the whole base," but I'm quite sure it's what most of the base is like. And about 20% of them are worse than anyone shown in those videos.
That guy with the Acorn sign was the best/worst. Talk about clueless. Hearing these people try to come up with the reasons for their hatred would be hilarious if it wasn't so terrifying.
Couple of things. As somebody who makes documentaries this is a pretty easy thing to manipulate. If you pay attention to the questioner/cameraman he is asking combative questions meant to illicit a visceral and angry response. Also, the questions themselves are pretty shallow. How long have you known Palin and how long have you known Obama are pretty stupid questions. I believe there is a much better way to achieve what he wants to achieve without being combative.
Second, this does not excuse the responses he does get, especially the woman bringing up ACORN. As Ta-Nehisi points out this is a consistent and very dangerous seed the right has planted, spearheaded on the lovely blogs over at National Review, of course. It is reminiscent of the Nazis in the twenties blaming their economic strife on the Jews. When things get tough find a marginalized people to blame it on. This is expected of some grass roots right radicals, but it is being institutionalized within the Republican party. These are very dangerous waters they are treading on and they may have gone too far to come back.
I agree with Chrs. This is dangerous to Obama, and to our democratic process.
A candidate cannot have a policy designed to make it look like their opponent is an active enemy of America. McCain says nothing when his supporters call Obama a terrorist. Palin says nothing when their supporters say "kill him." Because that's what they want people to think.
Are they just trusting that the secret service will prevent any assassination attempts, so that there will be no blood on their hands?
This is crazy and destabalizing. They are playing with fire, and all of America could get burned.
McCain needs to say that Barrack is a good man who loves his country, and he needs to repeate it constantly in order to calm things down.
It's the past.
The results of the primary, the polls... they indicate that it is - demonstrably - the past.
If there’s any solace to be had in all this, it’s that these people are driving a lot of more moderate Republicans out of the party. Take my step-father for example. He’s close to 70 and has never voted for ANYONE other than a Republican for president his entire life.
Last night he called me and was beside himself over the level of hate, ignorance and vitriol being spewed by McCain/Palin and their supporters. He will now be voting for Obama and wants nothing to do with the Republican Party ever again.
He lives in Colorado too, so that should help!
While it's indeed very scary to see the xenophobia exhibited by many of these McCain supporters in addition to their misunderstanding of the facts, the producers of these videos too often ask loaded questions with an almost combative tone: "Is Obama a terrorist? Then why did John McCain stand on stage with him the other night." Repeat, and repeat.
This borders on belligerent reporting and will do nothing to help viewers better understand the perspectives of these supporters, nor get the supporters to realize their flawed logic.
I agree with Dustin, this is instigatory. Yes, these people are vile, but its not fair to the other supporters to paint them with the brush that colors these clowns.
You're going to wear yourself out (and the rest of us faithful RSS readers) by focusing on the most scared American voters.
I just wanted to add this observation; would these people sing, "God Bless America" if they knew it was penned by a Jew (Irving Berlin)?
Andrew,
do you honestly think that the supporters would realize their 'flawed logic' if the reporter was kinder to them?
Most of them had no grasp of logic as an idea, let alone a practice. They are chanting hate, and yet the questions are too 'combative'?
The terrorist one was very soft and easy to answer. He isn't. Perhaps when someone then says he is, or words to that manner, they deserve slightly tougher questions?
unless you feel Sarah Palin interviews have been unfair.
I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to be shocked about here. I think I understand your one point: you want to use this video to trade as a hostage for portrayal of ignorance in the black community. That makes some sense.
The maker of the video is very hostile, and is trying to breed contempt. He's not exposing anything surprising, is he?
TNC, I speak as someone on the center-left. Have you heard the things people have said during the Bush administration? He should be assassinated, he's a terrorist, he's a criminal, etc.
I don't care what the candidate is, we're in a state of extreme polarization now. Do you think they would have been any lighter on Hillary? What if Biden had won the nomination? Richardson? Edwards?
This is the state of discourse in this country, and the filmmaker is part of the problem. Do you know how many doors he could have knocked on by now? Or he could have worked part-time and contributed the money to Obama, etc. I think these actions would have been much more laudable.
foo
These people are the ULTIMATE LOW INFORMATION VOTERS. They are knuckle dragging neanderthals who are living in their own private Stone Age.
Kuros,
Depends really - how many people are going to donate or up their existing donation have watched this?
Personally, I think it's great - for months we've heard this overreaction blah blah - now all that's left is that the interviewer wasn't being nice to the people spewing hate.
These videos show you what has been festering under a rock the GOP put down decades ago. I'm surprised anyone would be surprised at how ugly it is.
And I don't have any sorrow or pity for them; they sold themselves for the easy option of racism, and now they have literally nothing but hate, as they watch a black man become president.
James,
Of course I thought the Palin interviews were fair. And I certainly agree with the themes of this interviewer's questions, but I didn't think his tone and phrasing were conducive in eliciting both honest and detailed responses.
to be fair though, these are folks going into a RALLY being "confronted" with protesters who support the other side.
i wouldn't be surprised if mccain supporters at an obama rally were subjected to the same level of verbal abuse or "thuggism" (though the args are clearly different) because there are narrow-minded assholes on both sides.
that said, these folks are scary ignorant, and it's sad to think that this is the "base" the repubs are so desperately trying to motivate by playing into their fears and hatred. an entire political machine has positioned itself so that THESE folks are at its core. there's something tragic about that.
Dustin is right, I think. The guy clearly isn't impartial. But that doesn't mean that he isn't exposing some ugly, ugly isht.
TNC, have you seen the footage of Madonna cursing at Sarah Palin from onstage? And everyone cheering as she whips them into a frenzy with her claims of how she will kick Palin's ass? This is no different.
Dustin Park has it right ... this is clearly manipulative. This guy went out looking for people to say crazy things and they went along with it. People will do anything for a few seconds of attention.
Guarantee that if you went to an Obama rally you could generate the same kind of vitriol from liberals with the right questioning. Look at some of the comments on this thread, which you elicited just by running this video! You are basically doing the same thing as the guy with the camera.
There are loons on both sides of the political spectrum in this country. Is that a surprise to you?
By the way, not sure I understand what difference it makes when you first "heard" of a politician.
I think the first video is clearly more instigatory (is that a word?) than the second.
In the first, the videographer appears to be going around looking for the most ignorant people he can find.
In the second, the majority of the time, the people in line are responding to the folks across the street (apparently unprompted, except in the case of the rape kit question). The videographer then follows up on the statements.
What baffles me is the fact that, if you are a Republican, a conservative, there are substantial issues that can be discussed and debated. But what is shown here is voluntary buying into vile and dangerous rhetoric.
Look - the rape kit story has been questioned, and some have called it a smear, but nobody is going to threaten Palin's life over it. Implying that Obama is a terrorist, however, incites violence and a desire to hurt the man. And that is despicable and dangerous.
Kuros,
I agree that there is a sentiment on the left that the Bush Administration committed war crimes. From this, mostly constructive efforts have been launched at analyzing the records/statements of Cheney/Yoo/Gonzales/etc. What constructive effort do you think the right is trying to launch re: Ayers? This is about stoking fear/racism/xenophobia/religious hatred at the most base level. Kristol, Hannity and every other commentator urging McCain to "take the gloves off" should be cognizant of the effect this stuff is having on the base. And re: the "crowd control" issue. I've watched many a stump speech where Obama has paused to dial down reaction from a crowd to something. For McCain and Palin to just sit there while their crowd says "kill him", "terrorist", "treason"...it makes you wonder doesn't it?
"confronted", "instigatory" ?
since when does a camera make the person being recorded no longer responsible for their words and actions?
this is the same bullshit excuse Palin and her defenders tried to use about Palin's interview with Couric - Oh, Couric was being all annoying and playing gotcha so Palin couldn't come up with decent answers!
I grant you that the questions may have been combative therefore eliciting an angry response. However, wasn't the irony of people not at work telling other people not at work to get a job priceless?
This is indeed the past. These are the same type of people who would have been protesting school integration in the 60s...sorry, it's the past.
The people in these videos may well be scared, but they are foremost angry. I question exactly what they are angry about...what is feeding that anger.
I wonder if some of these people even believe what they're saying. I think part of it is they just like being a part of something, albeit something vile. Mob metality I guess.
The campaign is giving people easy thoughts to latch onto and a punching bag to release their anger.
But there are unstable people out there, which is why all of this is so dangerous. And what does this do for an Obama presidency?
One of the sadder comments about portrayals like this is that the Republican Power Brokers don't care about the people who vote for them.
The Republican Party is at base the more elitist organization of the two. I wonder if the people in these videos realize they are being used?
After 8 years of Bush divisness no candidate was going to be able to bring the country together. This would be happening even if Chris Dodd was the democratic nominee. The same angry mobs would be out there shouting about other things.
My problem with this video and others like it is that these people spout this racist crap with a smile on their face in front of a camera person who clearly is on the other side. In other words, THEY ARE PROUD OF THEMSELVES. A bigger problem for me is that it is making me poor because I can not watch this garbage without feeling I need to donate more money.
It's not that this doesn't expose some sort of ugliness out there, it's that it's easy. I love the Daily Show and they have been very good lately, but they fell into the same trap this week as well when they reported the VP debate from a bar in Wasilla. It's easy to produce an ethnographic portrait of the ignorant rural white voter, but it's not only preaching to the choir, on boards like these, but also completely ineffective. It is much more effective to identify with the people you supposedly hate, because once you identify with them, it is easier to understand where that anger may come from. I grew up in a small town in a conservative household and now live in a large city surrounded by liberals, and I can tell you, there is ignorance on both sides. If each side where to have a better understanding of the other we may actually be able to have constructive conversations in this country. However, both campaigns, some more than others, take the easy route of pushing hatred and contempt for the other side.
I second Sorn.
These people deserve our sympathy, not our scorn. Leaders of government and industry have much to gain by ginning up voters with fear and ignorance. But what do these voters have to gain from their own fear and ignorance? They are victims. We need to train our disgust and scorn on those in power that are thriving from this crap.
Hi Mr. Coates --
First of all, let's not feel sorry for these people. These are the people who'd throw us into the ovens if their leaders told them to. If something happened to Obama, they would rejoice.
As ugly as this is, this presents the rest of us an opportunity. Moderate Republicans don't want to be smeared with these crazy lunatics' brush. But they also benefit from stoking such racial animosity.
We shouldn't let them have it both ways. Reporters should be asking moderate Repubs such as Arnold in CA, Charlie Crist in FL and the like whether they agree that Obama has "terrorist bloodlines." Somebody, please ask John Boener if Obama is a terrorist sympathizer.
The only way we got rid of Joe McCarthy is by putting moderate Republicans on the spot and forcing them to censure one of their own. It's reaching a point -- and will go even further over the next weeks -- where we can demand moderate Republicans to either condone or condemn this kind of demagoguery.
Democrats have a chance to drive a permanent wedge between business-type Republicans and illiterate Christianist-type Republicans. While horrible, vile and dangerous, this is also an opportunity that Democrats should exploit.
re: These videos eliciting sympathy.
It's not like these folks can't figure things out for themselves if they so choose. We live in the era of Google. 55% of American households have internet, which is widely available for free at public libraries. I can't feel sympathy for the willfully ignorant.
Despite our disagreement about whether we should feel sorry for these people, Jimmyvanl's thinking is tactically astute. I want to hear what moderate Republicans have to say.
What is scary is that some of these people seem to take true pride in their ignorance. I guess if the bottom really falls out, they at least will have that left.
As a side note, I remember when the toxicity of violent tv and videogames on youth behavior was a front page discussion. Limbaugh, the fair and balanced Fox News, Coulter and others seem to be having a similarly dangerous effect on people's intelligence.
Obviously the worst, most rabid partisans of any cause look bad. Is it really constructive to focus on these clowns? I've met Obama supporters who call McCain a traitor and a coward for breaking under torture - but those jackasses certainly never changed my opinion that most Obama supporters are good and respectful people.
MikeF - I've never heard a single Obama supporter say that, myself. But taking your premise at face value, would it be responsible of Obama's campaign to feed into that sentiment by airing a commercial with innuendo about McCain's time in the POW camp and having Michelle say that McCain put her children in danger by his actions? Of course it wouldn't be. Schmidt is "feeding the beast" as a tactic of last resort. This is clearly the October Surprise in it's dumbest, most bludgeoning form. And it's a line of attack that "crosses the Rubicon". There's no coming back from calling your opponent a friend to terrorists. I want McCain to own up to this at the next debate. He will be eviscerated for it.
W.B. Yeats 'Second Coming' has come to mind a lot in the past 8 years.
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Europe seems, finally, to be recovering from the bloody 20th century, thank God. I pray that the center can hold in North America.
"By the way, not sure I understand what difference it makes when you first "heard" of a politician."
It makes a difference because these people claim they don't 'know' Barack Obama, yet claim Sarah Palin is one of them. Its a joke.
"This would be happening even if Chris Dodd was the democratic nominee."
Maybe, but probably not with this type of hatred. These people are literally furious that Obama is succeeding. All these people claiming that he's a radical and a terrorist really, really, really wish that WAS the type of candidate they were running against. I almost think deep down they know he's not. But man, oh man, that would make it so much easier if he was.
I agree with an earlier commenter: it's pretty easy for documentary makers to ask combative questions and edit out the intelligent responses. On the opposite side, the ignorant responses liberals/radicals give in interviews at protests are often cringe-worthy as well. The sad fact of the matter is that most people - not just Republicans - are pretty poorly-informed on issues, and many people do not reflect on why they hold the opinions they hold. So, to me, what is most remarkable about videos like this is, first, the seeming pride in being uninformed (people "just know" he's got terrorist connections!), and, second, the undercurrent of meanness, prejudice, and leaps of logic which fuel the ignorance.
I can understand a lot of you trying to see this ignorance and anger from different sides of the coin. But it seems to me that some of you are trying to parse a kinky hair. I think what Mister Coate's point is that when the Black community is faced with harsh judgements and condemned unilaterally as being less than and ignorant then the worse flotsam from the Black community is held up as an example of this never ending trope, don't get upset when the same judgements are used on the white community and Republicans. {Bell Curve anyone} Yes these examples are not all white people, they are not all Republicans, that is implicit. However if this were a group of Black folks running around talking about white people in the same manner you can bet your bottom dollar that this would elicit calls of how narrow minded and ignorant we ALL are. Sort of like that "Black people are the most Homophobic" line from Mister Sullivan. If you can make excuses for those white fools at the Palin rally then please next time give Black folks the same consideration the next time you watch COPS. But realize as well, that these people are part of the white community and they have these views and that you as a White community need to forcefully tell these people that this kind of incendiary, divisive, hate speech has no place in our political life. And then you need to ask yourself why this has come out of your houses and from around your dinner tables. Why does Obama have to denounce just about everybody he's been associated with and Moosey and McCain get a pass on this? Check yourselves and check your double standards.
MM
I think you're on the wrong board, MM. It seems to me that nearly everyone that reads TNC clearly understands the hypocrisies that he's pointing out.
TNC:
Here's part two of the Hatefest:
http://bloggerinterrupted.com/2008/10/video-mccain-palin-mob-part-2-womans-child-says-of-barack-you-need-gloves-to-touch-him
The child of a woman interviewed can clearly be heard saying of Obama, "you need gloves to touch him." (The child went uncorrected by any parent.)
This is what we're up against.
This is the Republican Base.
As heartland goobers make clear, there's plenty of fear and loathing for Obama out there.
But what do they really mean? All this invective about Obama as a “terrorist” or “communist” is really camouflage. What they're really thinking? “He's an uppity n----r.” Of course, they won't come out on camera with their racist tendencies, so they resort to code.
Palin, of course, is constantly using this code. Does she realize what she's saying? Perhaps, perhaps not. What she does know is an overweening will to power, which she'll stop at nothing to get.
I think Dustin's got it right. Similar situation here - I grew up in Erie, PA, and now live in the DC area. People who live in the cities, for the most part really have no idea what life is like for people in the Great Lakes area. (I can't speak to the south and middle of the country, but I suspect something similar's going on there). They have no idea what it's like to feel the resentment against people who seem to think that if it's not from some ritzy shop in New York or Los Angeles, it's not worth squat; that our art and talent and fashions were worthless. (Not that we could afford the New York stuff, when our wages are that far below the national average). No idea what it's like when the local politicians of both parties are so corrupt, connected, and wealthy that it seems that nothing can get accomplished to fix the situation. (Not that the local news would ever put a fresh young challenger in a good light, unless he were from the right family).
I grew up around people of both parties who were perfectly willing to believe in vile nonsense. The "Democrats" just had a different flavor of nonsense. It didn't really matter if you intellectually considered any of it. It was one of the few ways you had of feeling at all like you're affecting the world, or of being heroic. Religion was another way. In my opinion, so was hunting. We had a joke about the world's fourth-largest standing army being in the Pennsylvania woods first day of buck season. I don't think it's that far from true.
But if people don't have that sense of heroism and purpose, they'll do anything and believe anybody to get it. God knows working for beans in a dead-end job (that might be going to Mexico or China or some other godforsaken place next year anyway) didn't do it for most people.
It saddens me to say it, but the more of these videos I see, the less I agree with Senator Obama that "there is more that unites us than divides us", and the more inclined I am to agree with Bill Maher's perspective that there are 2 Americas.
As a Moderate conservative I cringe when I see where the Republican Party is going. Somewhere along the way the Republican Party went from Nixon's Silent Majority to being a intellectual heirs of the dixiecrats.
What has happened? Where have the old values of Pluralism, the right to disagree with your neighbor, Balanced Budgets, and smaller more effective government gone?
William Jefferson Clinton was more of an Eisenhower Republican than Either Reagan or G.W. Bush. Am I the only disaffected conservative who can no longer vote Republican?
Dude Where's my Party? I am sick of the anti-intellectualism, the absence of reasoned considered debate, and the swift-boating tactics of the Republican Party.
The time used to be long before I was born when a person could be resonably proud of being a conservative in this country. Not anymore. When asked to define my political views I now either tell people that I'm a pluralist or that I am a cautious liberal. I was hoping that John McCain would be the dude who said that "We should not tolerate the forces of intollerance be they Lewis Farakhan or Pat Robertson." Alas he was swift-boated and lost his soul in South Carolina in 2000.
Thank God I can vote for Obama with a clear conscience. I probably would have voted for Nader Again in 2008 (voted for him in 2004) had Hillary won the nomination. I honestly believe that Obama is about as un-ideological as a candidate can be. As a resonably conservative person that is everything that I can hope for.
Here's to hoping for a pluralistic society. Not a society in which freedom degenerates into the freedom of the strong to opress the weak, or a society which sacrifices opportunity in the name of equality.
i love all the people yelling "get a job"
what is this the '50's? these people think they are yelling at beatniks & hippies.
One of the sadder comments about portrayals like this is that the Republican Power Brokers don't care about the people who vote for them.
The Republican Party is at base the more elitist organization of the two. I wonder if the people in these videos realize they are being used?
I wonder if the Democratic base realizes it's being used. What has any Democratic President done really since Johnson for minorities or the poor? What will Obama do? In a two-party system, neither party's going to act to benefit its most enthusiastic supporters.
Are they just trusting that the secret service will prevent any assassination attempts, so that there will be no blood on their hands?
Did Newt Gingrich and Rush Limbaugh take any responsibility for the Oklahoma City bombings?
I agree with Dustin's first observation (that the documenter is effectively working the crowd and cherry-picking responses) but I have to quibble somewhat with this:
"I grew up in a small town in a conservative household and now live in a large city surrounded by liberals, and I can tell you, there is ignorance on both sides."
Well yes, I do think it reflects poorly on urban leftists when they thoughtlessly decry the problems of globalization, republicanism, and other leftist ills. It reflects very poorly on young radicals when they smash the window of a Starbucks. But for all of their blather, it doesn't compare to the kind of shit we're hearing at these McCain and Palin rallies. Not just because people are talking about Obama as a terrorist and another is threatening to kill him, but because they're being legitimized by one of this country's two major parties!
If the Democrats sanctioned this kind of behavior from their base, I think you'd have a better point. But right now, the difference in scale between the actions of the extreme right and the extreme left in this country make a diluted comparison. I think in the name of being fair, people try to rationalize away critical differences. I understand the temptation. But we have to be vigilant against this kind of behavior, no matter who its coming from.
Lastly, I do agree that its important to empathize with one's political adversaries, even in the face of hateful resistance. But that's not an easy. In fact, I would say its far more difficult to moderate an extremist than to achieve the opposite.
Anectodes are not evidence. The relative "thuggishness" of supporters of each respective campaign cannot be evaluated (if it could be at all) based on highlighting particularly bad fans. I'm sure you'll find some people voting for Obama for objectionable reasons, and if we went around with a video camera, I'm sure we would find such people. Millions of people will vote for each candidate, and the reasons for their particular votes don't necessarily have anything to do with the candidates. If you believe McCain is a thug, fine, but that statement cannot be supported based on interviews with some people who will be voting for him.
"If you believe McCain is a thug, fine, but that statement cannot be supported based on interviews with some people who will be voting for him."
McCain is not a thug. McCain is standing idly by while the thugs at his rallies are using blatantly inciting language and allowing them to turn into a lynch mob. Everyone has supporters they'd probably rather not have. McCain is far off-base here by tacitly supporting what they're saying.
I think I've fallen down the rabbit hole. I am watching CNN and they are talking about the people at McCain rallies being angry and frustrated, and that anger and frustration is leading them to shout "intemperate" things. This was said as though shouting, "off with his head" and "kill him" were more like mere booing. WTF!!! Why can't inappropriate speech be called inappropriate speech? How can anyone defend this kind of speech??? I just can't believe this. They are being kind of apologetic to these people. Give me an f=ing break!
dustin/elisabeth OTM.
i've only watched part 1 so far- basically, you have folks answering loaded questions at a glorified tail-gate party; the spicy language kinda comes with the vibe, and the camera loves ignoramus white folks about as much as it does wild-haired screaming black crime scene witnesses.
i need some footage of the upscale version of this... bring a camera over to the higher tax bracket crowd of whatever town this video was shot in and get me some reaction to better questions, or at least the boorish behavior.
Re: Are they just trusting that the secret service will prevent any assassination attempts, so that there will be no blood on their hands?
I'm not too woried about Obama: the Secret Service, bolstered by the technological innovations of the last two generations, has its work down pat. How else to explain the fact that no one has gotten far enough through the "bubble" to even threaten a president, despute the fact that the last two presidensts have been cordially hated by significant segments of the population with a hatred that easily matches these ranters?
I'm far more worried about what these people will do after Obama becomes president. Sure, 99.9999% of them will go back to their sullen resentments, their crystal meth and their 40 ouncers, their abusive relationships and dead-end jobs, their angry, self-righteous preachers and their tin-foil hat websites. But somewhere right now a new Tim McVeigh could be aborning in their ranks, and who's to say his atrocity won't put even 9-11 in the shade?
Their lives are punishment enough. Go after the people who become wealthy and powerful planting these lunatic views--they're the ones who need a thrashing. These folks are meaningless; they'll either change or they won't, but what they will most certainly do is die out.
JonF writes: "I'm not too woried about Obama: the Secret Service, bolstered by the technological innovations of the last two generations, has its work down pat. How else to explain the fact that no one has gotten far enough through the "bubble" to even threaten a president, despute the fact that the last two presidensts have been cordially hated by significant segments of the population with a hatred that easily matches these ranters?"
I'm not as sanguine as you are on this topic. Under Clinton times were mostly good in terms of the economy, so the anger was suppressed. Under Dumbya most of the violent, murderous wackos were/are on his side. You might disagree with me here, but there is no significant leftist violence in America today - likely domestic terrorists are on the right. (And no, I don't think the Earth Firsters and so on really count. Crimes against property don't worry me much on this score.)
So a President Obama, inheriting an economy that's in the shitter, will also see a rising violent wingnut contingent. I think it's inevitable. I hope the Secret Service is everything you think it is and more.
As I was watching these, I had a sense of deja vu, and it took me a minute to place these faces...they are the same faces as those in the background as Elizabeth Eckford walks to Central High in Little Rock. Some of these faces are in the pictures from the lynching of Tommy Shipp and Abe Smith in Marion, IN. These folks always have been- maybe always will be with us. They are so sure of their own superiority, so narrow-minded, so ignorant that it is truly frightening. What is more disturbing is that McCain is willing to summon these demons from our past, when he has to know that it's too late for it to do him any good. Once again, he makes it clear that "Country First" is an empty slogan. Barack Obama is going to be John McCain's President in a few months. He (McCain) should be thinking about how he can help his President lead the country in the right direction, as befits a U.S. Senator. I'm disgusted and dismayed...
A fish flails hardest just before it dies.
Steel7,
My thoughts exactly.
This could be mid-60s Birmingham except we watched that film footage on a black and white TV. Nothing has changed but the technology.
It was painful for me to watch these videos. Back in the early 70's I wouldn't have imagined that these people would still be out there in the 21st century.
I have been afraid for Obama since he won Iowa. These people are ignorant, to be sure, and some of them are dangerous.
I'm not sure what we can do, but we have to do more than express our understanding of their ignorance.
If anything were to happen to Obama, I would never feel the same about this country. It would affect the rest of my life. That's the first time I've put that into words, but it has been on my mind for a long time.
Well, Ta-Nehisi, I can appreciate your level-headed take on these vids and they're surely saddening to watch. And I get your point from an earlier post about finding the dumbest person available for the man on the street segments. But as a person, as a human being, I'm offended and pissed off by these trogolodytes.
Look, I'm a white dude from the midwest myself, and the pathetic ignorance these people display—no, glory in— sickens me. Sickens me. They, and the culture they create, are the main reason I had to get the frak out of Ohio and head out West. (Not that we don't have 'em out here, too, but there's fewer of them.)
Maybe it's nothing compared to what you've seen in your life and that's the cause for your mellow reaction, but I'm thinking you're being too forgiving of their assholishness.
OTOH, maybe treating them with the pity they deserve is exactly the correct response.
Loving your blog...
Steel7: "They are so sure of their own superiority.."
The irony.
The interviewer himself came up with the word "terrorist," and the interviewees were clearly reluctant the follow the leading question (one said, "your word, not mine"). The producers almost certainly approached far more people than the video showed, and this is the best (i.e. worst) they can come up with?
Thugs? Who's more confrontational in the video, the interviewer or the interviewees?
What kind of response would you get from asking selected Obama supporters, "is Patraeus a traitor?" (And how long have you known Patraeus?)
Better yet, is 9/11 an inside job? Does God damn America? Nobody needs to plant these words in Rev. Wright's mouth.
And by the way, I don't ever want to hear any talk about NBA players being taller, okay? Have you ever heard of Muggsie Bogues? He's far shorter than me! We've all got our height issues.
With his rhetorical gifts, does anyone doubt that if Obama *wanted* to whip his crowds into a rage-fueled frenzy, he *could*? He couldn't get elected that way, but he could certainly start some pretty nasty riots. If he really were any of the things he's been accused of being, he could do a whole lot of damage.
That's the fear that McCain's camp is playing on. Poor whites already feel (and are) pretty powerless, and then they see someone who is "not like them" drawing huge crowds of people who are *also* in many cases "not like them," and getting closer by the day to really significant power... I can see how that would be a deeply scary prospect.
For most people, it has become less scary as Obama has become more familiar and has shown how basically normal he is. That's why he's leading in the polls. (And why this line of attack probably won't work.) But for some, his rise in the polls is just another reason to be afraid, just another sign of his sinister powers. So it's not really surprising that the nuts are getting nuttier as we go along.
What *is* surprising is that the McCain camp is encouraging the nuts. Not because it's irresponsible (even though it is), but because the nuts aren't going to win him the election. To turn this thing around, he doesn't need to solidify the base, he needs to bring in the moderates. Whipping the wingnuts into a frenzy is a great way to make the moderates run for the hills. McCain can't get elected that way any more than Obama could.
Only political rally I ever went to was one for Dole. I didn't enjoy it, but I don't recall anything like this stuff. Sad, disturbing.
However on the first one the people who gave more boring responses probably wouldn't be put in. If I were asked the questions it'd go like this.
When did you first hear of Sarah Palin?: April of this year, after Trig was born.
When did you first hear of Obama?: 2004 DNC convention.
Is Obama a terrorist?: No. And he's not a Muslim either.
After that the only reason to keep me in, in such a case, is that I'm a tiny deformed man in a wheelchair so some people find me interesting to look at. However that could theoretically make me come off more sympathetic, it depends, so I'd probably be nixed.
(Granted there are follow-ups I could imagine after the terrorist one. "Why are you voting for McCain" - I agree more with his policies even if I hate his campaign. "Do you really think Palin would do anything for disabled people like yourself?" Maybe not, I can hope though and maybe be a reminder.)
Re: Under Clinton times were mostly good in terms of the economy, so the anger was suppressed.
Yes, Tim McVeigh was the poster child for anger management! (See also: militias, "Clinton Chronicles", etc.)
Re: Under Dumbya most of the violent, murderous wackos were/are on his side.
I know people who fantasize about George Bush's murder. And do you really think Bush isn't Target No 1 for Middle Eastern terrorists if only they could get at him?
Re: So a President Obama, inheriting an economy that's in the shitter, will also see a rising violent wingnut contingent.
I didn't disgaree on that at all. My point is that the President is excedingly well protected. The rest of us are not. "Soft" targets abound. Violent nutcases are far more likely to take out their rage on some McVeigh-style act where they can kill a lot of people than by taking pot-shots at the president.
The GOP has been winning elections since Nixon's day by scaring people about The Great Other. Usually this is done very subtly and the candidate himself keeps a healthy distance. This year the subtle uses of the tactic have failed. So they've turned up the heat and volume, not realizing they will lose more votes than they gain. Moreover dredging up some utterly obscure 60s radical to play the boogeyman role is not cutting it either: more than half the eletorate has no recollection of the 60s; those battles have finally faded into history and using them in current politics is as dumb as trying to revive Bryan's "Cross Of Gold" rhetoric.
TomV- I must have missed the "reluctance"- if there was any, I'm sure it was reluctance to express politically incorrect views- but their true state of mind shines through nonetheless. These weren't "selected" Mccain supporters- these were ordinary folks lined up to get into a rally, I believe. A run of the mill Obama supporter would not call Petraeus a traitor, or a terrorist, most would agree that he did a great job in a difficult environment. You can throw Wright and Ayers and whoever else you want at us, it keeps you from having to explain why McCain has been enabling the greed and lack of foresight that got us where we are today. McCain is raising the mob against Obama, damn the consequences for the nation as a whole. I spent 22 years defending this country- and I am utterly convinced that Obama is far the better man to lead us forward. It's a shame really, I used to think highly of McCain, and would have voted for him in 2000. Not the only bullet I've ever dodged...
Re: dp,
This video was filmed in an upscale suburb about 20 minutes outside Cleveland that actually does have a higher tax bracket than the area in the previously posted video. Not that everyone on camera is probably wealthy by any means, but if anything, this is much more typically suburban: lots of subdivisions, gas-guzzlers, chain stores, congestion, etc.
This hits home a lot more, and it's profoundly painful and frustrating to watch (especially being one of your more socially conservative (pro-life) but not Republican readers).
Look at the liberal hatred in this clip ... is this not a "rage-fueled frenzy?" Is it not "thuggism?"
Where are the intelligent, thoughtful liberals in this crowd?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D74Xs1VuYAE&feature=related
The interviewer did not come up with the word "terrorist." Sarah Palin has been stating at her rallies that "Obama pals around with terrorists." She did not say that Obama pals around with a former 60's radical.
"Terrorist" is the word used by Palin because the GOP has gotten a lot of mileage out of that word. Low information voters make an immediate association to Muslim extremists and 9/11. The message being framed by McCain/Palin and other GOP wingnuts is, "the economy and healthcare don't matter a whole lot if you're killed by Muslim terrorists." That's all they're selling.
And they go on to say that Obama is really a Muslim and the batshit crazy ones go on to say that he will allow Muslim terrorists to take over the country.
This thing about Obama causing the global financial meltdown would ordinarily have me laughing hysterically, but this kind of ignorance is frightening right now.
God bless you, Ta Nehisi, for rising above anger and seeing this for the sadness that it is.
It needs to be dealt with, countered, for sure. But now is a moment to see the next steps for our society, to understand this and lead forward. We're on the right track.
Dear John McCain:
Do the right thing. Not talking about a black or white thing, because that would cause conflict and make this illegit. Now, your definition of legit or illegitimate is confusing. So the Redhead One was sent to make things clearer, because in about a year or two, what you'll do is take a look upon the mirror. And what you'll see is an image of hate...
More liberal acceptance of other points of view ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI
There is stupidity and hatred on both sides of the political spectrum. Ta-nehisi, you are being disingenuous as usual here.
On a different board a white-male Obama supporter told me that Palin should've aborted her last child because congenitally disabled kids lives aren't worth living. In case he didn't know my situation I explained that I'm mentally fine, but I am congenitally disabled. In the past people who said what he said would back down when I explained my situation, but he didn't. He just kept going on about "breeders" and that it's cruel to let certain kinds of people be born. And yet, and yet...
I will admit there is a difference. McCain/Palin do seem to be fueling some of the hate on their side. Obama I don't believe is. In fact I think I told the guy something like "Obama would reject you as much as I do" and I meant it.
The exception to that is age. I think, in a quiet way, Obama is fueling a bit of an "old white people are racist and kind of useless" vibe. There was the computer ad for example.
It almost seems unreal to me--like it's staged or something. Surely there are some people in that crowd that know better, but instead are just preying on the weak-minded by instigating hatred and lies. I wonder what it is in human nature that causes us to want to go with the flow and to not question authority. The best explanation I can think of is that it is centered mostly in pride. If some figure of authority suggests an idea, it is human nature to accept it. Once this idea is challenged, it becomes human nature to defend it regardless of rationality and morality because above these virtues, pride always takes precedence. I think it is shameful that such human flaws are exploited in an election like this one. Elections should be about appealing to the virtuous qualities within humanity. And in fact, pride could be used in this way--give people a sense of pride about their party and for what it stands for. This is just as powerful. I would challenge both parties to win votes fairly and morally in this way.
First, let's stop calling these people "ignorant." At best they are "willfully ignorant" which of course is really plain old stupid. Second, remember that scene in "In The Heat of the Night" when Sidney slapped that old White man back? It appears that's what a lot of Obama's White supporters want him to do to McCain in the debates. Obama knows, however, that this race is no movie.
I would like to hear the sound bites from the Obama crowd. I don't believe he is Muslim, nor a terrorist. though i do believe many of his ideas are socialistic and his associations leave alot to be desired they are a reflection of his judgment, Ayers, Wright, Farrakhan ( who recently referred to him as the Messiah . His tax break for 95% of Americans is a load of crap that will never happen & when was the last time a DEM cut taxes ? NEVER !!!!