Mere confirmation bias? Or is Cashill onto something?In fairness, there's been some pushback over at The Corner about this latest nuttery. Still, I'm going to say this one last time--actually I'm going to say it until they put me under: I don't ever want to hear anyone complaining about black people and their conspiracy theories. The cat on the corner--or even the Reverend--yelling about the government inventing AIDS is off his rocker. But my God, all these people do is sit around think. And this is what they come up with--Bill Ayers wrote Barack's memoir. Wow.
« AV Club TVOTR Interview | Main | McCain telegraphing his punches » More GG right-wingers14 Oct 2008 11:14 am
Heh, Ann Althouse checks out Jack Cashill's theory that Ayers wrote Obama's bio, and comes up divided:
Comments (36)
Is that (prevalence of conspiracy theories) something that the American black community in particular gets criticized for? Even if it's true, I'd think it would be more corollated to lower education or to anti-intellectualism (as far as can be measured) than to culture. I guess a people who actually have been demonstrably oppressed through hypocracy and great lies by officialdom for centuries would be expected to have a culture which reflects a belief in secret oppressive conspiracies as commonplace; however, I thought the usual 'black helicopters' believer stereotype was supposed to be visualized as the Fox Mulder type or a left- or right-wing fringe white dude. Anyway, those I've personally met who believe in less believable stuff like the conspiracy theories mentioned here tend to be relatively uneducated - that's a better predictor than race in my personal experience. Blaming blacks in general for beliefs like Rev. Wright's seems more like political opportunism, culture-war-stoking ("if blacks believe that than of course they'll unthinkingly support their new black messiah Obama") than anything else. 
In fairness, there's been some pushback over at The Corner about this latest nuttery. Still, I'm going to say this one last time--actually I'm going to say it until they put me under: I don't ever want to hear anyone complaining about black people and their conspiracy theories. You gave me my laugh for the morning. LOL at this. I insist that their next 'theory' will be that Ayers took all of Obama's law school classes.
When the Republicans abandoned any pretense of fiscal conservativism (January 22nd, 2000, I think it was), they lost any sympathy I had for them. After 9/11, they got a little bit back... but they did a good job of pissing it away over the months that followed. I keep hoping that a decent 3rd party will spring up but one never does...
I insist that their next 'theory' will be that Ayers took all of Obama's law school classes. Too late. The theory actually goes that Bill Ayers paid for Barack Obama to go to Harvard. -- ACS
I don't know that conspiracy theories a largely the realm of the uneducated, I hear enough idiocy out of people I know who have solid educations. They just don't trust the official point of view. What most of them seem to think is that they are smarter than everyone else, more in tune, and less naive. So they think shit like there is a cure for cancer, but doctors hide it to make more money. Or the carburator sitting on GM's shelf that will let people get 85 MPG. It really ends up being self-serving, they don't have to live in a world of facts and when called on their bullshit, they label you as one of the "sheeple". The one I have heard the most from the local black community is that the lottery is rigged to only have winners in the suburbs. Guys I used to work with would buy tickets in the whiter neighborhoods rather than in the city because of this. Chappelle even made a joke about this in his Racial Draft skit.
Right. But it’s worth noting the difference in perspective. The conspiracy theories of black people give more power to the white-dominated government than it actually has. The conspiracy theories of white conservatives suggest that a black man needs a white man to write his book.
News Flash! Obama biography has been written by an evil combination of Satan, The Lochness Monster, Gengis Khan, Jack the Ripper, Benedict Arnold and the 76's Centre Line for the Philadelphia Flyers!
TNC - good point. But this post raises an important question - does the Atlantic pay you enough to keep track of Ann Althouse's drivel ? I certainly hope so.
This is the thought process of someone backed up against a wall who can't allow themselved to believe they yould lose. There's just an underlying primal scream of "ohshitoshitohshitTHISCAN'TBEHAPPENING" that requires them to believe that some electoral silver bullet is buried in the clip somewhere to keep from freaking out in public. The professional conservative movement is 22 days away from having all their toys taken away for the first time since 1996 and the only think keeping their brains from leaking out of their ears in abject panic is that Barack Obama Couldn't Possibly Win. If that means cobbling together the perfect October suprise out of imagination and cognitive dissonance, they will. It's just a response to psychological stress. Which is to say, if they were tied or ahead in the polls they wouldn't be capable of actually believing such nonsense (spreading it, on the other hand...). But hey, when the numbers look bad you need something to get ou out of bed in the morning
I'm mostly with Dougefresh on this one. The garbage you are seeing on the Corner is I think confined to a very large in number but comparatively small percentage of whites. The conspiracy theories that you hear from blacks tend to be held by a very large percentage, in my experience, across income and education levels. Sorry Coates, I will continue to complain about blacks and conspiracy theories whether you like it or not.
sv wrote: "Is that (prevalence of conspiracy theories) something that the American black community in particular gets criticized for? Even if it's true, I'd think it would be more corollated to lower education or to anti-intellectualism (as far as can be measured) than to culture." There was something interesting about this on NPR the other day. It discussed research that showed that when people are stressed and feel that events are out of their control, they are more likely to see patterns where none exist. This would explain why people in dangerous jobs or jobs that depend to a great degree on luck have wacky superstitions and rituals--they see a pattern that tells them that carrying their lucky penny when they climb on the back of that bull will help them stay on its back when the gate opens. Likewise, in a crisis situation, people will see patterns to explain what is happening--hence all the nutty theories about the causes of the financial crisis now. These are the coping mechanisms of the powerless. That is exactly how I would describe conspiracy theories from the black community (or any other stressed community). Just the same with conservative pundits. For so long, they felt as if they were actually in control. They had the answer. Their guys were going to be elected again and again. The rug has been pulled out from under them. In their helplessness, they--like the superstitious 18th century sailer or the cat on the corner with the explantion for AIDS--start to see patterns that don't exist.
I'd like to point out that government's involvement in various nefarious drug related enterprises brought about at least in some part the rise of an inner city drug culture and needle-related AIDS cases
laborlibert, As for conspiracy theories such as AIDS being caused by the government: sure, I've heard it. The rasta guy who sells me tea from the pushcart and the guy hawking "Mohammed Speaks" tell me about it. But either my friends, family and colleagues don't believe it, or they're keeping it to themselves. OTOH, the fear that someone might attempt to assassinate Obama has been expressed by numerous people I know.
"The conspiracy theories that you hear from blacks tend to be held by a very large percentage, in my experience, across income and education levels." Wow. Your prejudice is--there's no other way to say this--incredibly sad. You don't even bother to interrogate your own assumptions. Your experience equals THE experience. It's a useful corrective to those who think living in New York is automatically enlightening. "Sorry Coates, I will continue to complain about blacks and conspiracy theories whether you like it or not. " Dude, you owe yourself an apology--not me. All of us are ignorant some time. But not all of us mistake what we don't know--or even what we think we know--for actual reality. That's a sad place to be. You owe yourself more than mistaking your limited life experience for authority.
Daughter: I have also lived and worked in predominantly black communities, at least in my adult life. You're right of course that I can't say with any mathematical certainty that, percentage-wise, blacks believe in far-flung conspiracies more than whites, but this has been my experience. Our experiences simply differ. Just on the AIDS point that you mention, we had a huge blow-up in my office over this issue, with our black employees saying that there was at least a high probability that AIDS was created by the US government, probably to kill blacks. I think this is a pretty outrageous charge, but not a single black member of our staff (that would be 4, but we are a very small office and I was the only white involved in the argument since whites generally are wise enough to stear clear of this sort of thing) would argue against it. The fear of BO getting assassinated is not a conspiracy theory, it is a very real fear that is shared by blacks and whites I think.
Mr Coates: I don't make any apologies for stating my opinion, and I think its unfair for you to continually attack my experiential arguments when you frequently support your own posts with the flimsiest of evidence and personal feelings(the difference is I'm a shitheel commenter and you put yourself out as an expert). I was very clear that my view was based on my own experience( did you miss the words "in my experience"?). If I didn't base my views at least in part on my experience, what on earth should I base them on? Are their reliable studies out there on belief in conspiracy theories across races? If so you should cite to them, since you are, on this site, the authority. If you're going to hold your commenters to such a high standard, you should hold yourself to the same. And you should apply it across the board and not only to commenters that you disagree with. And that part about complaining about black conspiracies was supposed to be tongue in cheek. Take it easy. Respectfully, DM
How many people think the CIA killed JFK? Faked moonlanding? 9/11 Truthers, Protocols of Zion... the list goes on. It's a common thing. Hell, there's nothing necessarily WRONG with entertaining conspiracy theories either, as long as you remain open to contradictory evidence and are trying to get at the truth instead of thinking you've found it. Problem is most conspiracy nuts believe their theory on sketchy evidence and can't be dissuaded. Sometimes the CIA is doing mind control experiments, and sometimes Stalin and Hitler signed a secret non-aggression pact.
i would not say that "large percentages" of black folks believe in conspiracy theories, especially as if it's some black only affliction. lots of white folks believe crazy shit too: elvis is still alive, the moon landing was faked, waco, Obama is a muslim. the list is very, very, very long. here is the difference between whites & blacks though. our conspiracy theories come from 100's of years of actually being conspired against. whether it's tuskegee, cointelpro, black wall st or that little thing called slavery (chris rock definition) one point about the education thing. this has nothing to do with it. how educated are the folks at national review?
Yup, I do labor. But I know the limits of my personal experience. I know, for instance, that my personal experience can't tell me whether white people are more likely to believe conspiracy theories than black people. I'd never say that. Also, either it's wrong or it isn't. Even if I was a hypocrite, you'd still be wrong. We'd just be wrong together.
I can't believe everyone is missing the obvious on this one. Dreams from My Father was published in 1995. Fugitive Days was published in 2001. What incentive would Ayers have had to ghostwrite a book for Obama, six years before writing his own memoir? Really, what was in it for Ayers -- unless, perhaps, there might have been the fluke chance in 1995 that Obama would get to run for Senate in 2004 against a paranoid schizophrenic carpetbagger like Alan Keyes, and thence be tapped to give the keynote speech at the DNC, turning in a performance that instantly made him a possible presidential candidate? I mean, what are the odds? The truth is far more chilling: Obama is the secret author of Fugitive Days. The whole right-wing nuttery about Ayers writing Dreams is a DELIBERATE MISDIRECTION to blind us to the PLAIN TRUTH. Also, there is no way that moon landing really happened.
OMG! I think Mr. Berube has something there. Ayers memoir is actually Obama's dog whistle call to the radical element making sure that know he ain't gonna let his bomb-making thug homies down! I luv conspiracy theories! btw how does George Soros fit in all this?
I have no sense of the relative proclivities for conspiracy theories among black people or wingnuts or any other subset of the population, I just want to see Dave Chappelle do more Conspiracy Brother.
Conspiracy theories tend to arise whenever people see "bad things" happening (whatever their definition of "bad things"), and cannot reconcile those events with their prejudices and/or experiences. "It's a conspiracy" gives them a chance to accept what happens without having to reexamine their world view. In this particular case, "bad things" happens to be a candidate that they do not favor winning the Presidency. It seems pretty clear that Obama's books have played a significant part in getting his national political career launched. So how did that happen? Well, if your prejudices already have trouble with the idea that a black man can write something worth reading, how much easier to blame it on some white guy -- even if the white guy in question is a disgusting unreformed radical terrorist. Hey, at least he's from a "good family," even if his politics are unfortunate. Much easier fit for the world view. I mean, certain groups of people are just obviously incapable of writing anything good. Next you will be suggesting that some single mother on welfare (to pick another out group) can turn out a great novel. Obviously total nonsense -- unless you happen to have read Harry Potter.
btw how does George Soros fit in all this? Oh, please. Who do you think arranged for Jack Ryan to take his then-wife Jeri to those sex clubs, then arranged for his sealed custody documents to be released in 2004, thus eliminating Obama's only plausible challenger and ushering the lunatic Keyes into the race? Even a casual observer should have been able to spot Soros' hand in that one.
But my God, all these people do is sit around think. That's what they like to call it. I have a more scatalogical term for it.
good discussion here. I like the response from RWB, Jack, and others about recourse to conspiracy theories being one response to distress. That actually makes a lot of sense. I figured that collegiate education tends to include a fair amount of training in analytical thinking, which usually reduces conspiracy theories to shreds (while confirming a few), but of course, you have to know where to get information you can trust. College might also make you think you're smarter than you really are. Plus, sometimes big, hidden, lied-about conspiracies really happen, right, they're not just theories. that secret stalin-hitler pact someone mentioned was a good example. (Godwin!) I don't see a good reason to blame AIDS on the govt, but it probably did get less way attention from the govt than it should have because it was killing gays and drug users at first, not to mention the fact that it was an STD (just as the religous right really started to gain political power). The govt, especially the military part, really is massive and secretive and does engage in weird research and really did get involved in smuggling cocaine and really does disseminate propaganda disguised as news and start wars for false reasons etc.
Also - Coates, I am guessing when you say "GG conservatives" or "GG right-wingers" it's like, good game. As in, good game, it's over. "good game, it was sportsmanlike and no hard feelings (sike!)" Am I guessing wrong?
the stuff about ayers writing barack's books is just pure unadulterated racism: the nigger is just too dumb to have written such a beautifully crafted book.
Sike=Psyche I think that's what you meant.
Thanks to Michael Berube for alerting us to the PALIN TRUTH. These questions about who, what, when, why and where is Barack Obama are COMMON SCENTS. (Like when you open that tupperware that's been in the back of the fridge for 12 weeks.) In the Berubian spirit and apropos of this thread's mention of black folk's conspiracy theories, I've been hearing a bizarre one recently. Word's going around my little corner of West Oakland that the country is going so deep into the shitter for so long that they might actually hand the mess off to a black guy so there's somebody to blame it on beside the usual suspects. Something about manipulating computerized voter programs to get some unsuspecting black guy elected President, then dump the whole thing in his lap and start pointing fingers. Anyone heard of such a possibility ? Sounds pretty fantastical to me. What will black people come up with next ?
Wait, you guys! It's all clear to me now! George Soros wrote Harry Potter to further his Liberal anti-Muggle agenda! This is HUGE.
I feel compelled to say that I pointed out that Obama's memoir predates Ayers's memoir in a comment to one of Ta-Nehisi's earlier posts, and that the logical conspiracy theory would be that Obama ghostwrote Ayers rather than the other way around: Michael Bérubé just posted a very similar theory - which proves that I am Michael Bérubé, leader of the Communist plot to take over blogging, America's last growth industry! Only the Corner will be left to stage a Red Dawn-like futile resistance!
As I pointed out to Jonathan Adler at the Corner (the rational pushback that Coates graciously acknowledged): Cashill's analysis is incredibly bad. Yes, one does. There is a great deal of both the joking references to his wife in his off-the-cuff talk (in Dreams he talks about her annoyance with black men's basketball obsession) and of the more high-flown rhetoric in work like his speech on race. I change no names, create no composite characters, alter no chronologies. Most memoirs observe the same conventions. Bullshit. I've never heard of Jack Cashill, but some of the actually-well-known memoirists of our time do this. Pat Conroy does exactly this in "Water Is Wide." Maya Angelou's "I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings" alters chronology. Scott Turow's "One L" changes names. (A wise move when you're writing about lawyers.) David Sedaris goes even further and has been accused of outright fiction. Madeline L'Engle's children labeled her Crosswicks Journals fiction. Even Elie Wiesel's "Night," possibly the most important memoir ever written about the Holocaust, doesn't live up to what Cashill claims are the norms of memoirs. And this is just silly: In 1997, Obama was an obscure state senator, a lawyer, and a law school instructor with one book under his belt that had debuted two years earlier to little acclaim. Little acclaim? Compared to whom? "Dreams" got positive reviews from the NYT book review, which many writers would give up at least a thumb joint (you can hold a pen and tap a space bar with the nub) to get. It also was praised in the LA Times book review. Ayers referred to Obama as a writer in order to make the case that his neighborhood was rich in culture and thus a great environment for children's intellectual development. Cashill doesn't appear to know Obama's speaking or the memoir genre well enough to be analyzing Obama's work for signs of other authors.
I don't ever want to hear anyone complaining about black people and their conspiracy theories. The cat on the corner--or even the Reverend--yelling about the government inventing AIDS is off his rocker. But my God, all these people do is sit around think. And this is what they come up with--Bill Ayers wrote Barack's memoir. Wow. Delusions about HIV widespread among conservatives (God's punishment for promiscuity, etc.) have severely set back the US's public-health efforts to fight the disease. Other delusions about HIV widespread among black people (invented by the government, etc.) have done the same. I have great confidence that Barack Obama's election is going to usher in a period of non-delusional government, in which conspiracy theorists will be judged by the content of their craziness rather than the color of their skin.
Human Beings--Black and White alike--just create conspiracy theories. That's what they do. We all know about Vince Foster, Bill Clinton as complicit with cocaine dealers, and the PresiBill's plan to sell America to the Chinese. Good Times! I, for one, prefer the conspiracies concocted by my Afro-American brothers and sisters. They include:
Black, White, Latino, Asian Americans, and Native Americans all love conspiracies. Bottom line: People of all races are pretty dumb.
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"All these people do is sit around think..."
That's almost the exact opposite of what they do.
Posted by Elyas | October 14, 2008 11:34 AM