Sorry to steal from Andrew, but this demanded a reposting. I don't hold McCain or Palin accountable for the incredible hatred that we've seen at their rallies as of late. Let me rephrase--I don't think they're accountable for everything they're knucklehead supporters say, anymore than Obama is accountable for every comment on DailyKos. But they should be shook by the people they're attracting. We are getting a good look at the elements of the base now. These are not people just posting anonymously in internet forums--these are people who literally believe Obama is a terrorist and showing up at rallies. These guys need to watch what they say. Somewhere, slumbering in this country, there are men who aren't clued in that this whole "terrorist" thing is mere strategy. They have guns, and all their lives they've wanted to be famous. Don't give them a reason. This is still America. We are never that far from the past.
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
should be shaken, maybe? or shook is another way for the past participle of to shake? i don't know, honestly
It's not just Obama's safety I'm concerned about, either. I'm worried about some of these people instigating violence at the polls on election day.
There is a huge difference between a random person posting on the internet, or interviewed for a "why won't you vote for so and so" article, and someone screaming "terrorist" and "kill him" at a rally. Screaming in full earshot of the candidate and everyone else in the crowd. I know candidates are reluctant to speak poorly of a supporter, but in these cases it would do a lot to ameliorate the impression that they agree with the screeched suggestion.
This takes rallying the base and repelling the independents to a new order of magnitude, as only those who are unembarrassed to stand next to someone screaming "kill that unpatriotic traitor" remain.
I truly don't understand how they can think this is helping them.
According to the Patriot Act, the people shouting "kill him!" should be carted off to jail. Alas, they will probably be invited onto Fox News and eventually given a radio talk show.
Y'know, I remember reading Sinclair Lewis' "It can't happen here" more than a decade ago and thinking it a decent but ultimately far-fetched. Now I'm starting to wonder.
Your 538 post below reminded me of what I wanted to add. Sean described visiting the local offices of both campaigns in a number of swing states. The Obama offices hummed. The McCain offices had perhaps one person making phone calls while the rest sat and talked about how much they disliked the opposition.* The people who remain to cheer Palin and screech that Obama is a terrorist are the people who were motivated into the office by her addition to the ticket, but only to sit and gripe with like-minded individuals about how much they hate the Democrats.
*Worth noting that a commenter said this was par for the course in any such activity--one person working the front of the booth, 4 at the back dissing everyone on the other side of the issue or election. That Obama has campaign staff who can arrest this natural tendency and get everyone in the office onto the phone bank is a testament to how well they did with the Obama fellows program and other organizing.
So interesting. I was just at the Obama rally in Asheville on Sunday, and there was no hatred or hostility at all. Except for the references Obama made to McCain in his speech, and the McCain people holding signs outside, none of the rally attendees were interested in talking about McCain. They were excited about Obama. I find that really encouraging after reading this.
How long until we hear something like "you know what you have to do"? While I know this might be a bit of an exaggeration, the way this campaign is shaping up makes me worry...
I appreciate your comments on accountability, Ta-nehisi. Honestly, this account of the McCain rally has me reaching for the Pepto. I've become so invested in this election and I'm nervous, scared, and outraged that these ignorant people are getting all this attention. Instead of denouncing the comments, the Republicans seem to delight in finding a new rallying tool. It is frightening.
Shawn,
Wasn't it Sinclair Lewis who said something to the effect of: When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.
Those campaign rallies sound pretty scary to me.
Prime time debate in a southern state that is definitely going for McCain tonight...I certainly hope that the Secret Service is working that crowd security like it's nobody's business.
In one of my journalism classes today, we talked about the little episode that happened with the African-American camerman being told he was a "boy" and that he should sit down by a Palin supporter at one of her rallies. The same story also mentioned that the crowd booed and tossed nasty remarks at the other press members there. I can't help but wonder...is this really what these people want? Republicans are almost open courting acts of violence against the press and an opposing presidential candidate. Where do we live? What's going on here? I feel like I feel like "Once in a Lifetime" should be playing in the background or something...
Ugh. Despite my Gaelic roots, it's not often that I suddenly want to start punching things, but this picture clinches it. What a pair of d-bags.
I'm writing to the NYT Public Editor to protest Kristol's piece yesterday for inciting this kind of behavior by McCain/Palin. It's time for him to go. I would encourage others to do so. The piece received 100s of almost all negative comments, I am happy to say. I hope this is the lunatic fringe but it only takes one lunatic.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/06/opinion/06kristol.html?scp=1&sq=kristol%20palin&st=cse
It only takes one ignorant motherfucker who believes that their actions are "putting country first" - and there are a lot of ignorant motherfuckers out there.
The fact that this is occurring, that these things are being shouted out loud, is dangerous and frightening.
People may not believe that it is possible that something could happen - but it is possible, and it has happened before.
This type of behavior needs to be stopped, immediately, by the McCain-Palin campaign. And not in the common wink/nod way, that implies that they don't really mean it. It needs to be said clearly, forcefully, and repeatedly that this is not what the United States is.
In general, no, it is not the responsibility of McCain-Palin to police all of their supporters. But if the derogatory comments, violent thoughts, are said and acted out right in front of them, and they do nothing - then yes, they should be held responsible. Because they have an opportunity to stop it, to speak out against it - if they don't, they are condoning it through inaction.
All it takes for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing.
This crap makes me so angry I can hardly see straight.
I categorically refuse to pardon the McCain-Palin campaign for the disgusting behavior they are encouraging, legitimizing, maybe even hoping for.
Let's watch what national figures in the Republican party say and do over the next few days as this worsens. I'm sure people like Colin Powell or Bobby Jindal can't be too happy about it.
And let's hope for an even wider margin of victory for Obama to shut this shit down for a generation.
How long before someone responds to the implicit question being raised at these McCain/Palin rallies? "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest?" Indeed.
This is a bit of a stretch...but in the primary everyone said Hillary was hurting his chances in the General Elec. by running what could be characterized as a slum campaign...I think it ended up helping create huge margins in everything in registration, Obama voters' determination, excitement, etc...move forward to the general and McCain is in the midst of a slum campaign...now there are two ways at looking at this.
1) either with two weeks out and the polls over whelming show Obama as the likely winner, McCain should shut down the slum campaign and campaign by gentle bring the ship in...otherwise he's hurting America by making it more divisive... country first and all.
2) His campaign techniques really go south and he pisses the majority of the Americans off and the US is more united than they have been in the last 20 yrs.
C) neither, McCain keeps the slum campaign going and the country remains divisive..and Obama's Secret Service have to work three times as hard guarding him than any other president.
They have guns, and all their lives they've wanted to be famous. Don't give them a reason. This is still America. We are never that far from the past. – from Oct. 7. Is politics usually one part reason, two parts unreason, and three parts emotion? Is politics all about emotion? Are charisma, God, and placebo power essential for great, transformative politics? Is Obama’s charisma somewhat like a JFK psychic recall of Muhammad Ali’s charisma?
Is Muhammad Ali’s story of God, fighting, and transformation a major part of the karma of America? Is the truth about America always a good joke?
Boxing is a lot of white men watching two black men beat each other up.
It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up.
My way of joking is to tell the truth. That's the funniest joke in the world.
My toughest fight was with my first wife.
- Muhammad Ali
What are religion, inspiration, and America all about?
The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses - behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights.
No one knows what to say in the loser's locker room.
I believe in the religion of Islam. I believe in Allah and peace.
What keeps me going is goals.
I know I got it made while the masses of black people are catchin' hell, but as long as they ain't free, I ain't free.
I know where I'm going and I know the truth, and I don't have to be what you want me to be. I'm free to be what I want.
It isn't the mountains ahead to climb that wear you out; it's the pebble in your shoe.
It's lack of faith that makes people afraid of meeting challenges, and I believed in myself.
He who is not courageous enough to take risks will accomplish nothing in life.
I never thought of losing, but now that it' s happened, the only thing is to do it right. That's my obligation to all the people who believe in me. We all have to take defeats in life.
If they can make penicillin out of mouldy bread, they can sure make something out of you.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ''Don't quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.''
It's the repetition of affirmations that leads to belief. And once that belief becomes a deep conviction, things begin to happen.
I am the greatest. I said it even before I knew I was.
I figured that if I said it enough, I would convince the world that I really was the greatest.
It's not bragging if you can back it up.
Only a man who knows what it is like to be defeated can reach down to the bottom of his soul and come up with the extra ounce of power it takes to win when the match is even.
-Muhammad Ali
Is God good for both theists and atheists?
Consider the seven hypotheses of placebo power:
1. Miracles, immortal souls, and supernatural entities are total nonsense in terms of physics and chemistry, but God, Higher Power, and Divine Angels truly exist in terms of psychology and placebo power.
2. Everyone has won a great spiritual prize, but God might not reveal the prize.
3. Everyone has a soul linked to God.
4. Everyone is a mixture of intelligence and stupidity.
5. Everything is a mixture of myth, metaphor, and reality.
6. Those who speak of God never truly know God.
7. Those who truly know God must fail to truly speak what they truly know.
Do God and placebo power fundamentally motivate politics and spiritual striving? Does God give people humility, wisdom, spiritual strength, and the will to win?
Also I don't think you can blame Palin for not speaking out against this...
It wasn't on her telepromter and we all know she isn't going off the cuff.
These are standard Republican stump speeches in the post-Nixon era. These are rank and file Republican base supporters. It's a double whammy this go 'round: the Red Team is trapped by the price of their horrible policies coming due (and the general public catching on) and a black man running against their team. It's uglier than usual, but still usual.
I was hoping you would weigh in on this.
In no way am I easily surprised, but I had some pretty uneasy feelings today learning about some of the stuff going down around this election.
There are some scary ass people coming out of the woodwork, and they seem to have some scary ass intentions.
All the racism/hatred/resentment that's been locked in the closet for the past 40 years or so and kept under wraps, that shit is finding its way out quickly and not subtlely at all.
I'm probably overreacting, but I'm getting the feeling something of epic proportions is about to go down.
Palin is tapping tribalism Ta-nehisi.
She is IQ-baiting and race-baiting.
I had thought that....she was basically an nice person that was just out of her depth.
But i see a whole lot of resentment here.
A deep grievance against the priviledged, the talking class, the media and the high IQ end of the bellcurve....the righthand tail.
The bellcurve war.
foo
How in the hell McBush can allow things to go this far is beyond me.I remember how terrible it felt when Bobby Kennedy was killed, and the horror that accompanied the killing of Doctor King.
If he really wanted to "Put Country First," he would speak out about this shit before somebody does something stupid.
But I am not holding my breath.
whoanow
"Obama's Secret Service have to work three times as hard guarding him than any other president."
Apparently, they already are: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/25/us/politics/25memo.html?scp=1&sq=obama's%20secret%20service&st=cse
I like the use of "shook". Like how Drew Bledsoe was "shook" by Mo Lewis (never the same afterwards).
At least these kids didn't actually shave their heads (I think that's the sound you hear of Jewish voters all over the nation pulling the lever for Barack Obama).
what i see in palin is raw, naked ambition. before she was tapped, she had kind words for obama. she said that he was doing quite well in alaska. she complimented his energy plan. she wants to be president and believes that god wants it too. or why would mccain have chosen her?
It really is frightening, and the rallies (and the speakers) seem to be descending further and further into outright demagoguery. I actually posted something similar on my website earlier today, noting a bunch of times that this happened recently - http://matthewmundy.wordpress.com/2008/10/07/rallying-the-base/.
It's already out of hand, but I don't think it will get so out of hand that someone does something truly tragic. It does scare the hell out of me, though.
I'm interested to see if McCain gets called out on any of this race-baiting and hate-stirring at tonight's Town Hall. I doubt it, but it'd be nice.
I’m a born and raised New Yorker with a green card carrying Dominican wife with 3 half-blood children living in Georgia. I’m no punk but honestly this scares the ever loving shit out of me. I live 30 min from the birthplace of the modern KKK (Stone Mountain) and race hate is very, very real down here. Race is used as an excuse by whites here for almost everything, crime, unemployment, plunging real estate values, decreased credit availability. My wife is looked at like she should be pushing a lawnmower or cleaning someone’s house.
If the McCain camp pushes this envelope too hard someone is going to get hurt and it won’t be in Arizona, Washington or Chicago, it will be here, in the South where a pickup truck flying the Confederate Flag is an everyday occurrence. There will be race riots and it could very easily erase all of the civil rights gains here in the south.
They are well aware of what they are saying and what's it is inspiring in their followers. They are making this last 30 days an "us" versus "them" race and with the hopes that their side is bigger.
Not quite understanding/getting the image... Must be missing something.
Did these two guys want to kill him or does the red X mean that? I figured it was two idiots who wasted money on tshirts and painted them to prove a point that they don't like Obama.
If they actually made any threats I'm guessing they were hauled off by the cops right?
The whole terrorist thing is a bit lame. Obama isn't a terrorist in any sense of the word. Don't know how someone could say that.
But he was friends with one. Assuming he's not an idiot, he knew about Ayers history. I'm hoping Obama's thought process went like this: Ayers did some outrageous things I don't agree with, but I agree with some of his other points. So its ok to work with him toward those other goals.
I can see how someone would come to that conclusion. It's probably a wrong one. Obama would have been better to leave Ayers by the side of the road and work toward their (shared) goals with someone else. Can't see why you'd want to even talk with someone, let alone work alongside someone who has done what Ayers done. It doesn't invalidate Obama for President. But it does make his sense of expediency over principle questionable.
Of course, McCain is no different. As far as I'm concerned Obama and McCain should not be Pres neither get my vote.
What we need is a President and Congress who will simply stop making hand out promises. Stop spending. Cut Spending. Full Stop.
Nothing more.
How long until Palin uses a baby as a human shield during a campaign stop?
This woman is the antithesis of righteousness.
As Chris Rock has said in the past, "that train is never late!" I predict more flat out unapologetic racism in the context of the McCain campaign's gloves off strategy before this is through. Wouldn't want to supress peoples "patriotic" expression against a so-called traitor.
"I don't think they're accountable for everything they're knucklehead supporters say..."
Sure we shouldn't hold Mac and Pal responsible for all of their knuckleheads' ramblings and tomfoolery, but you bet your ass we can hold them accountable for inciting this type of behavior. They bait it and they know exactly what they are doing. When Palin goads the crowd with "he pals around with terrorists" and Mac chimes in "Just who is the real Barack Obama?" they both are complicit in giving this a field in which to grow. Furthermore, their behavior is beneath the dignity of any candidate running to be POTUS /VPOTUS period.
This is not a flame we, Mac&Pal, nor the knucklehead supporters of either campaign should stoke. This pic posted up there is horrifying, the clip of the cop spitting out barack husein obama's name is frightful, the Palin supporter yelling "kill him!" of Obama is treasonous and there are many other knuckleheads from the hood that have been fairly well behaved through this election and waiting and wishing that they be provoked, know what I mean...This is not a road mac and Pal should tread. Does mccain really want to incite race riots in the streets of our country?? Is this the price he is willing to pay to win a m-effin election??? The Mac camp told us this was what they planned to do and why can't we hold his ass accountable for the consequences of it? Huh? It is the extreme heighth of irresponsibility by the McCain camp to condone this behavior in their presence.
Who out there is still unsure of how mac and palin will run this country, look at this pic up there and save it to your desktop/ forget more of the same, I am not sure if we'd survive a single year in a mac/pal administration.
country first my black ass...
Lord Jesus, I need to take a walk
@Sam: As I, a white suburbanite, understand these things, a red circle with a slash through it indicates "no" like "no smoking" (if the circle has a cigarette) or "no Obama" (if the circle has Obama). A person's photo with an x over it means they should be taken out, or have been taken out. So maybe these two knuckle heads didn't think it through and were just trying to make No-Obama T-shirts. Or maybe they know at least as much as I do, and the symbolism went beyond that.
For Obama as terrorist: It is lame. So if someone shouts it at McCain's rally, and his reaction shows he heard it, wouldn't it be sensible to say "now wait, that's too far"? As for Ayers: he doesn't appear to ever have been charged with anything, didn't kill anyone, hasn't bombed anything in decades, and does not really appear to be a bin Laden, or even McVeigh, analogue. He has for decades been a major force working on education in Chicago, and most anyone who works seriously on public education issues there will have worked with him at some point. We've tried the prissy "I'll take my ball and sit here at home until I only deal with leaders and governments I really, really like" approach and it failed, so I'm less than impressed by those that say "if Ayers was working on side A of an issue, know that I would choose B--wouldn't even have to know what B is--or just sit home and refuse to do anything." You seem to suggest that whenever Obama saw Ayers on a board, a committee, at a fundraiser, he should have walked right out the door and started a completely parallel, non-Ayers, committee. That approach seems too precious for this imperfect world.
How instructional all this is.
The photograph at the top of this blog post shows two American patriots using their Constitutional rights to express their alarm at the very real and grave threat of a terrorist-sympathizing Marxist who is hell-bent on destroying the USA and all she stands for.
As one can see from most of the reactions to this photo, instead of showing admiration for these patriots, we instead witness volcanic eruptions of contempt and hatred among the Nobama cultists here.
One would think that a normal reaction to the face of terrorism would be stand courageously against it, as McCain and Palin have unfailingly done. Instead, the white flag-waving leftists on Coates' blog seek to defend and embrace the indisputable enabler of terrorism, Barack Hussein Obama, while heaping endless scorn and threatening violence against these two examples of genuine Americans.
Little wonder that Ayers can walk unmolested in polite company; he has Nobama and all his unhinged supporters to provide aid and comfort to the enemies of America.
Country First.
The photograph at the top of this blog post shows two American patriots using their Constitutional rights
Free speech doesn't mean we have to agree, and can't criticize speech we don't agree with. It just means that the government won't imprison you for the speech and won't try to stop it. As far as I know the government has not arrested the two individuals or tried to mute their speech.
I have seen no 'volcanic eruptions' in this thread. It feels more like a great sense of anxiety at this country's current crossroads. There are people in this country who literally believe that Obama "is hell-bent on destroying the USA and all she stands for."
Normally, you would be dismissed as a troll, but these past few days have proven to be very telling.
Anxious, indeed...
An anecdote (not worth much) but one that appears to be backed up by the polling recently in Florida.
A dear friend of my mother's lives in Florida (has since the mid-70s), has never voted for a democrat in her life, and was very negative about Obama as recently as 2 weeks ago -- largely on "experience" grounds, but also because she's a devout catholic and very, very opposed to abortion.
Three days ago, my mother put the phone down and told me they just couldn't talk about politics anymore (they've been friends for 40 years), that they'd both just got angry.
This morning the friend called and said she's voting for Obama. What turned her around this week? The race-baiting, the brown-shirts, Palin etc... "I lived through the 60s; I don't care about Ayers, and this isn't my rebulican party. Obama is the one talking to me about my 401k."
I'm anxious because I'm worried about Obama's safety...
Watching clips of that McCain rally, it didn't even feel like a presidential nominee giving a speech. It felt like he was talking to a wild mob, honestly, I started getting the feeling that this was what it was like back in cowboy-days when a group of crazed men would decide to take the law into their own hands. I felt like I was watching some saloon movie from 1890, rather than a 2008 presidential rally. Surreal.
And even the way McCain's jaw was set, the tone of voice...he just seemed really gone-over-the-deep-end angry. It was a bit scary watching that video, and seeing these people reveal who they really are.
TNC, calm down.
One WaPo columnist reported on one slur at one rally. Even if it happened, which is debatable, it hardly represents "incredible hatred."
Did you read ANY of the criticism of Sarah Palin? Sandra Bernhard, perhaps??
JC:
Yes, it was Sinclair Lewis that said the quote you mention.
The irony is that Palin - McCain started up this "terrorist" talk to try and scare people away from Obama. However, I am now scared to death of the two of them, and their followers.
"As one can see from most of the reactions to this photo, instead of showing admiration for these patriots, we instead witness volcanic eruptions of contempt and hatred among the Nobama cultists here."
Help, help! I'm being repressed!
http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19450507,00.html
this is what comes to mind whenever I see the "red x" that these goons have on their shirts. It might be ignorance on their part, but it might not.
I was at a Rally For Change even today in NJ with Gov. Corzine, Mayor Booker, and others. Couldn't have been a happier and more diverse group of people. No personal hate was spewed at the other side, no attacks, only passion towards getting Obama elected. Made me proud to be an Obama supporter.
The Palin fiends are just overly filled with anger. I wish they could be calmed and set straight, but I fear that talk radio on the right, among other things, continues to fuel their hatred of the other.
Interesting how Manachean the world view is of conservatives like Atanarjuat. I suppose his McBush blinders have conveniently disallowed him to acknowledge unsavory compromises that take place in what we call realpolitik, or real life. Sometimes we even have to work with terrorists to make progress: (e.g Ghaddafi in Libya)
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/africa/09/05/libya.us/index.html?eref=edition
Of course, Nelson Mandela was also until recently listed officially as a terrorist, as part of the ANC. Bush had no problem meeting with him, although they didn't agree on much, even before Mandela was taken off the official US terrorist list.
And Bush also had no problems with the concept, at least, of meeting up with Arafat. Not that meeting with the useless Arafat would have made a difference but it just goes to show that you conservatives are very naive to expect your leaders to behave the same way they say they are going to behave...even Bush learned this lesson the hard way.
Poolside--you do understand the difference between criticism directly from the candidates mouths, whose arguments, taken to their logical conclusion, are that Obama might just be a terrorist and we don't know it, and is committing treason? That doesn't make you stop and think?
Here's what I want in a leader, because that is what we're choosing--one who, upon hearing a supporter call his an opponent a terrorist out loud, has the balls and honor to disavow that person in no uncertain terms. Because, as was mentioned upthread, that leader is only condoning the behavior by ignoring it. Full stop.
Oh, by the way, that's not supposed to be too damn difficult.
If you guys think your side is devoid of hatred ever hear Randi Rhodes rail against Hillary before she got fired? And that was against an ally, not a Nazi in the Republican Party. If on the topic of t shirts, someone's supporters were wearing "Bro's before Ho's" t shirts during the primaries.
This is the time of year that people tend to lose their sense of self and turn themselves over to the mob mentality of their political puppet masters. Richard Belzer warned Howard Stern he shouldn't vote for McCain if he had kids. To me, that is fearmongering similar to when LBJ sorta kinda maybe hinted that Goldwater was going to blow up the world. None of this excuses the vile use of the term "terrorist" or accusations of Obama being a Muslim, but I read a lot of hateful shit on Open Left, and they are considered thoughful voices of the left.
Someone also said "when fascism comes to America, it will be called anti-fascism".
I've sent this note to Andrew Sulivan and I'm post this here because I think this needs to be addressed.
On July 28, 2008 Jim Adkisson, a devotee of Hannity, Limbaugh and Oreilly, pumped 75 rounds of ammo into a Unitarian during a children's performance. Adkisson told authorities that "he had targeted the church because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country", according to investigator Steve Still.
Stating that a democratic African American presidential candidate is a terrorist sympathizer during a rally is dangerous. Any reasonable person would assume that at least one person may take this as an excuse to commit violence against democrats.
I am already hearing about volunteers for the Obama/Biden campaign being attacked by members of the radical right. Though these attacks are mostly verbal, the canvassers are really scared.
If anyone dies because some nut job took Palin's remarks as a call to action, the Palin/McCain campaign will be to blame. Yelling "terrorist" at a Republican rally is as dangerous as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater.
I'm gonna have to invoke Poe's law on Atanarjuat up there. Normally, I'd put that down as some pretty good spoofing, but I just can't tell any more.
What strikes me is the difference between McCain's words and actions. He calls himself an honorable man. Yet an honorable man would not stay silent when someone in his crowd shouts, A TERRORIST, in response to his retorical question, "who is Barack Obama?" A TERRORIST. Now, unless McCain has really, really lost it, you know he doesn't actually believe that Obama is a terrorist. He just wants to sow seeds of doubt in the electorate about whether Obama is who he says he is, by making loose accusations about acquaintances of Obama's. But, at hearing that, you can see McCain react, with surprise. But he says nothing. In that instant, you see his true character. He's uncomfortable, but remains silent.
well....this why Palin should be having press conferences instead of remaining in purdah except for stump speeches
.
I would ask.....
"Gov. Palin, why don't you denounce the racial slurs and death threats voiced by your supporters?"
This is so incredibly ugly. Palin's big demonization of The Other meme plays right into race-baiting, and her other big meme, lynch the l33t, plays right into IQ-baiting.
Sue Ellen, what would it look like if John McCain had his first politcal fundraiser at the home of someone who bombed an abortion clinic? Do you think the lefty blogosphere would try to look at the nuance involved in that? They would unload with full force and with the idiocy that the right is using. I have read articles that actually say McCain is more dangerous than Bush.
Environwackos have plead or been found guilty of bombing the corporatocracy (ELF, Unibomber), should Al Gore and mainstream environmentalists be blamed. They say the horrible businessmen are destroying humanity. Maybe you can handle the hyperbole, but some leftist with a screw loose is going to set fire to someone's office or house and kill someone.
None of this excuses the vile use of the term "terrorist" or accusations of Obama being a Muslim, but I read a lot of hateful shit on Open Left, and they are considered thoughful voices of the left.
Ridiculous. Open Left is considered nothing of the kind.
Colleniem ... the stated purpose of the Weathermen was the violent overthrow of the U.S. government. Bill Ayers was an admitted member of that group, unrepentant, who was pleased to pose years later trampling on an American flag.
Obama chose this man's house to have his political coming-out party, and associated with him for years. How much influence did Ayers, Dohrn, Rashid Khalid and others have on him over the years? I think Americans have a right to know.
Obama is certainly not a terrorist, nor did Palin call him one, but his past connections and associations leave a lot of question marks.
Despite all of his supposed skills in communicating, Obama has done a poor job of explaining his past. Hence the continued questions.
On the other point ...
Does Obama condone the behavior of his supporters -- vile, obscene, offensive remarks about Palin? Ridicule of McCain's physical limitations? The absolute stench coming from Hollywood and its liberal, anything goes crowd? I'm sure he does not, any more than Palin condones the behavior of a single person at one of her rallies.
I didn't see or hear anything about Obama criticizing Sarah Bernhard for suggesting that Palin needed to be gang raped. Where was your outrage then?
Poolside, you are completely missing the distinction between being responsible for every nasty supporter out there, and being responsible for letting "terrorist" and "kill him" be screamed at your rallies, in your hearing, and saying nothing. One is undoable for any candidate, whether Obama for the Bros before Hos T shirts or Nader for his bizarre troll over on Wonkette. What happens in your hearing, in front of your eyes, and you let pass, is a different category.
What, exactly, in Obama's lengthy record in the IL Senate and US Senate, hundreds of bills, makes you uneasy? This "he's just unknowable" bullshit is just that--no matter how many interviews, no matter how open his record, no matter how many books he writes laying out his vision of government and the country, you and Steve Schmidt will be saying "well, he's just unknowable." Point to something in his record--legislative or speeches and writings--that gives one pause, not that he and Ayers both live in Chicago, are affiliated with universities, and work on public education issues.
"should be shaken, maybe? or shook is another way for the past participle of to shake? i don't know, honestly
Posted by Eduardo"
were you correcting or asking for direction?
Re: Colleniem ... the stated purpose of the Weathermen was the violent overthrow of the U.S. government.
I've asked this on several blogs and the rightwingers are stumped to answer.
The 1860s are to the 1960s as a snifle is to double pneumonia. The CSA killed more Americans than the Weatherman and Black Panthers and all the rest of that bunch ever dreamed of. Yet this country put all this behind it, and had some politician 100 years ago had some casual association with an ex-CSA soldier or public official it would not have become a political hot potato.
Why the double standard? Were our great-grandparents more forgiving, despite the fact that many of their parents were victims of that conflict? Or were they just sensible enough to know that there comes a time when the past needs to be let go because what matters is the future?
@JC:
Holy Crap, how did I forget about that quote?
I'm guessing part of me wanted to forget about it.
As for the wingnuts that keep showing up at these rallies, well, there's a reason I don't have a problem with the Second Amendment, and they're it.
"According to the Patriot Act, the people shouting 'kill him!' should be carted off to jail."
I'd be satisfied with them being taken to the police for questioning. (The kind where their lawyer is present, I'm not a wackjob)
I hope McCain repudiates this stuff. I don't like how he's doing his campaign.
Hey poolside,
I have a better idea, why don't you explaiin to all of us what McCain stands for. Please. Is he for regulation as his running mate said or is he for getting government out of the way as his running mate said? (talking about covering your bases, HOLY SHIT)
Is it government's fault or not?
Will cutting taxes to nothing pay for that indefinite war he wants? (my guess, and I'm not an economist, is no)
Is he a maverick - i.e. does he break with his party? (ummm... no, 95% voting record with your party does not a maverick make you... at least not if you want mavericky mavericks and not just wannabe mavericks)
And lastly, is he honorable? (do honorable men lie and insight others to threaten a person they disagree with? I always thought honorable men stood up to that?)
Please tell us the virtues of McCain...
That is all....
Discuss....
Were our great-grandparents more forgiving, despite the fact that many of their parents were victims of that conflict? Or were they just sensible enough to know that there comes a time when the past needs to be let go because what matters is the future?
I think the answer has to do with a lot of historical contingencies. So many people were involved in the Confederacy that making them pariahs forever would have basically meant continuing the war, which (almost) nobody wanted. Also, there were fairly draconian measures applied to the South during the occupation period, and the lifting of those largely had to do with political compromises resolving the messed-up 1876 presidential election, the closest previous analogue to 2000.
These guys look like they could be right out of Columbine.