The development is not lost on Mr. Chambliss. "There has always been a rush to the polls by African-Americans early," he said at the square in Covington, a quick stop on a bus tour as the campaign entered its final week. He predicted the crowds of early voters would motivate Republicans to turn out. "It has also got our side energized, they see what is happening," he said.Damn right we're voting. No one should be outraged by this. No one should repudiate dude. We should be invigorated. That is the past talking--screaming actually--as it chokes on its own bile. Show this to your 18-year nephews, your cousins and daughters. Tell them that this is power. For my part, I have to say that hearing a politician quaking at the site of black people with ballots, puts a smile on my face, wide as 125th. Do the damn thing, Georgia. End it now.
« To speak the dun-language... | Main | Stuff 33-year-old, quasi-literary, golden-age hip-hop loving, black people think they like » "The other folks are voting"31 Oct 2008 05:52 pm
That's Georgia Senator Saxby Chambliss talking to his base. One guess as to who he considers to be his base:
Comments (68)Comments on this entry have been closed. |
Today's Headlines From The Atlantic |
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Copyright © 2009 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
Chambliss needs to go. What he did to Max Cleland was despicable.
Let's bury the crook.
"One guess as to who he considers to be his base:"
Idiots?
125th? If things bounce Obama's way in GA, I'll be smiling as wide as Queens Boulevard.
What? It's like 12 lanes wide.
Will any wingnuts even bother to defend the dipshit?
Just got an e-mail from small-town Georgia. My esteemed correspondent went to the courthouse to get photos of a line of 100 voters, and couldn't find anyone who'd admit to backing McCain. She also notes, happily, that early voting ends today. Chambliss's "base," if it wants to come out, is going to have to stand in mighty long lines on Tuesday. Ha!
Chambliss needs to be stomped. I'm not sure I just mean that figuratively, either.
From The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, here's the breakdown of who's voting in Georgia (holy shit!):
BREAKDOWN OF WHO’S VOTING
> Number of ballots cast by close of business Wednesday, Oct. 29: 1,572,293
> Total number of registered voters as of Oct. 27: 5,755,750
> Early voting turnout: 27.3 percent
> Number of ballots voted in person: 1,378,701
> Number of mail-in ballots returned: 193,592
TURNOUT DEMOGRAPHICS
Black………………551,094
White………………953,136
Asian-Pacific Islander ..8,009
Hispanic…………….10,120
Native American…………215
Other ………………49,719
Female …………….885,452
Male ………………637,122
Pay attention to the number of women....Go Obama!
ah, play that race card, man
of course he must me the "other side", he can't just mean the other side of the political fence
You are so obviously more racist than Chambliss, but you don't have to examine your own prejudice, right?
The "good people" are so good they ought to be able to vote 2 or 3 times and I'm sure many of them will
chambliss is showing what filth he is. it would warm my heart if georgia showed him the boot.
I wish I could smile at this, I really do.
Instead, I sit up and take notice, studying the nervous habits of hatred. Black people flooding the voting lines, no longer supine. This is that moment between hope and action--a precarious moment indeed.
We must remember: Chambliss' hate and anger will be strengthened with a victory over this uprising. So I donate what little funds I have to Jim Martin, and I watch intently. I just wish I could smile.
Jozef just gave me a new quote to work into my daily conversations:
"You are so obviously more racist than Chambliss."
So. Obviously. More.
Yes, Saxby. We're lined up around the block and down the street to take Georgia back. There is precious little you and Tom Perdue can do about it. Everybody knows that when turn-out is up, the GOP always loses in Georgia.
"of course he must me the "other side", he can't just mean the other side of the political fence"
Jozef,
Maybe you should read things carefully before coming off here and accusing TNC of racism, and implying voter fraud (prove it, man).
Chambliss said:
"There has always been a rush to the polls by African-Americans early, It has also got our side energized, they see what is happening," he said.
Now stop and think about who he is referring to with "our side" and the implication it has for the "other side" and which interpretation is more likely, yours or his, especially in the context of the discussion, which was high African American turn out.
To be fair, the two quotes from HuffPo are from separate pieces. But Chambliss is worthless on the grounds of Cleland alone and "Jozef" needs the Grendel treatment.
My wife and I stood in line for four-and-a-half hours today at the Fulton County government center to vote for Obama/Biden and Jim Martin. We talked about it and we both would have stood in line for 12 hours - like they had to do just down the road in Clayton county - if we had to.
It was as varied a group as you'll ever see, and no one seemed put out by the wait. We all knew the import of what we were doing. I'm also on a mailing list for Democrats from Glynn County, a deep red county just north of Jacksonville, Fl. The numbers there for registration and early voting look really, really good as well.
We might just pull this thing off.
"No one should be outraged by this."
I should be outraged. I am a Republican, and I'm watching some of the idiots from my party "informing" me that black people represent "the other side." These bigots led me to waste my vote on the libertarian candidate. Congratulations, Democrats. I don't think you earned this, but we definitely deserve to lose it.
Now stop and think about who he is referring to with "our side" and the implication it has for the "other side" and which interpretation is more likely, yours or his, especially in the context of the discussion, which was high African American turn out.
Nah, I think by "our side" he meant Republicans, and by "the other side," he meant Democrats.
High African-Ameican turnout means high Democratic turnout, because African-Americans generally vote >90% Democratic. A Republican who sees high African-American election turnout as detrimental to his party's prospects of getting power is simply pointing out the obvious.
If I were supporting a Republican candidate in a race, and there were high African-American turnout, yes, that would worry me from an electoral perspective. Not because I ahve anything against African-Americans voting, but because I know that on balance they would be voting against my candidate. And yes, that wory might energize me to get my base out to vote.
He said that black Democrats are turning out in huge numbers for Obama. It's a major problem for Republican hopes. Is he not allowed to mention this?
I voted the bum out (inshallah) yesterday. We got there at ten to seven, before the polls opened, and ended up waiting about an hour as the line grew behind us. By the time we left, the line looped around the back of the driveway and spilled onto the street.
Well, did you read what a Florida GOP country chairman sent out today?
HERE IN TEMPLE TERRACE, FL OUR REPUBLICAN HQ IS ONE BLOCK AWAY FROM OUR LIBRARY, WHICH IS AN EARLY VOTING SITE.
I SEE CARLOADS OF BLACK OBAMA SUPPORTERS COMING FROM THE INNER CITY TO CAST THEIR VOTES FOR OBAMA. THIS IS THEIR CHANCE TO GET A BLACK PRESIDENT AND THEY SEEM TO CARE LITTLE THAT HE IS AT MINIMUM, SOCIALIST, AND PROBABLY MARXIST IN HIS CORE BELIEFS. AFTER ALL, HE IS BLACK--NO EXPERIENCE OR ACCOMPLISHMENTS--BUT HE IS BLACK.
I ALSO SEE YOUNG COLLEGE STUDENTS AND THEIR PROFESSORS FROM USF PARKING THEIR CARS WITH THE PROMINENT 'OBAMA' BUMPER STICKERS. THE STUDENTS ARE ENTHUSIASTIC TO BE VOTING IN A HISTORIC ELECTION WHERE THERE MAY BE THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT.
You know what scares them, Coates?
They see folks pulling tricks out their asses and the folks getting out of those voting lines don't have melanin. They're watching as bullshit is pulled and folks waiting 8, 10, sometimes 12 hours to vote. The taunting of voters in North Carolina- yet, nobody got out of line.
Scares them TO DEATH.
We will not be moved.
This is running in Arizona...
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/rearview-mirror_ad/
"If I were supporting a Republican candidate in a race, and there were high African-American turnout, yes, that would worry me from an electoral perspective. Not because I ahve anything against African-Americans voting, but because I know that on balance they would be voting against my candidate. And yes, that wory might energize me to get my base out to vote.
Posted by Glaivester | October 31, 2008 7:48 PM"
Or the GOP could, you know, actually try to reach out to black voters with anything but bad-faith token gestures. The GOP made its racist bed and now has to lie in it.
"High African-Ameican turnout means high Democratic turnout, because African-Americans generally vote >90% Democratic. A Republican who sees high African-American election turnout as detrimental to his party's prospects of getting power is simply pointing out the obvious."
That, of course, is based on assuming that African Americans voting for a white democrat in the south is normal, and not the by-product of the republican southern strategy.
I fail to see how saying that "the other folts are voting" because there is a high African American turn out is not racially tinged. At the very least it signals that Republicans have given up on the black vote even in local disputes with white southern democrats.
Now, I understand that isolated, this might not mean much. But think of why any candidate would be afraid of high African American turn out, and why he would use that to energize his base. Think of this in the context that the news here in GA (I've lived in Atlanta for 7 years now) are constantly bringing up the record AA turn out, to the point that it is obvious to anyone here who he was referring to.
Now, the Max Cleland ads last election were despicable, but they only tell part of the story of why Chambliss won that election. Even after 9/11 support for Roy Barns and Max Cleland was high here in GA. That is, until they changed the state flag to remove the confederate symbol from it. This is a guy, and a party, that has made support for the confederate flag an integral part of their popularity in rural GA. To think that the sames guys would mean "democrat", acting disinterested when discussing high AA turn out is to be incredibly unaware of the history of the party and the state.
Early voting report from Georgia.
I live in N. Fulton County, which includes the city of Atlanta. I early voted on Monday this week and waited 5 hours in the freezing cold to do so with hundreds of other people. The problem was that the state only had 10 machines on site to do the work of 50. Personally, I think that was a deliberate move to reduce the amount of democratic voters. It didn't work! While I was there not one person left the line to come back later and when people left the voting exit there were hugs and high fives and even a few tears. It was a damn beautiful and empowering thing.
Chambliss and his lost cause comrades at the RNC have been running the table on TV and radio all negative and most racist.
Its gonna be close.
I'm beginning to see your point on just not sweating the death throes of the Southern Strategy. Somewhere deep inside, if these folks really loved America like they say they do, they should cringe when they hear themselves complaining that a lot of citizens are, gasp, voting!
I joined those "other folks" three weeks ago. How about you? Did you do the right thing yet?
"He said that black Democrats are turning out in huge numbers for Obama. It's a major problem for Republican hopes. Is he not allowed to mention this?"
You don't understand. I hope he says it everyday until Election Day. I would love to buy him and sell him a bullhorn.
Asher, of course he's allowed to mention it. Preferably over and over.
Today in south Georgia I saw a confederate flag license plate. First time I've ever seen that. An *official*, printed by the state of Georgia, license plate with a confederate flag on it.
Think about that. And then you tell me what you think Saxby meant by that comment.
I've lived in Georgia my whole life. The Republicans are every bit as bad as the worst characterizations of them. It's hideous.
And I guarantee all my neighbors will hear me scream if Martin gets 50.01% Tuesday.
"Do the damn thing, Georgia. End it now."
Like this?
http://projects.ajc.com/gallery/view/metro/early-voting-1029/2.html
Also, from Wikipedia, "Covington is a city in Newton County, Georgia, United States. The population was 11,547 as of the 2000 census. Census Estimates of 2005 indicate a population of 13,856... In more recent years, Covington has served as the location for filming of several television shows and movies, including In the Heat of the Night, the first five episodes of The Dukes of Hazzard, My Cousin Vinny, and Friday the 13th Part VI: Jason Lives."
Shorter Jozef and Asher:
B-b-b-b-but you're calling us racist, YOU'RE THE RACIST. No takebacks!! You aren't ALLOWING him to say something. Wait-- what? You're NOT saying that? B-b-b-ut you HAVE to be saying that-- that's what every black guy who comments on race is saying-- that whites are racist. Does not compute does not compute does not comp--
[An ideological error has occured]
"Do the damn thing, Georgia. End it now."
No worries my northern brotha. We got this!
Crazy people - really crazy - have invaded TNC's space:
from "Glaivester" blog -
An Interesting Experiment
After hearing of the skinhead plot to kill Obama, I can't help but think what an interesting experiment it would have been for Obama to have gone into hiding for a day or two and had it broadcast (falsely) on the news that he had been killed.
I would like to see how the various talking heads would have reacted to that news.
Of course, that would not be a practical experiment, because it would have likely led to a lot of civil unrest. But I would love to see the reactions of the intelligentsia.
That is all.
# posted by Glaivester @ 1:49 AM Comments (2) | Trackback
I put a marker down with my parents a month ago that Obama will win Georgia. I think he ends up winning Nebraska's 2nd district as well. I can't wait until next Wednesday.
Imagine the pressure to decide in the voting booth:
Hmm...let's see...Racist Shithead or Not Racist Shithead? Hmm...
Georgia has a choice to make. Choose well Peach State; the whole motherfucking world is watching.
Put a stake in their Republican heart. If the Reps are to be a viable "other" party, which a democracy needs, they need to die and be reborn with some thought rather than stupid, simplistic and evil sound bytes. Garlic and stakes.
Just wondering, what the fuck kind of name is "Saxby Chambliss" anyway? Sounds like an inbred refugee from a Tennessee Williams throwaway. Maybe his great great pawpaw cross-bred with livestock or something.
The fact that Cleland allowed himself to lose to a goober like that speaks to Coates' recent point about past Dem softness.
It's probably how Michelle Bachmann feels right about now, sweating against a guy named "Elwyn Tinklenberg"
I early voted on Monday this week and waited 5 hours in the freezing cold to do so with hundreds of other people.
Oh, you poor fuckers in Atlanta freezing to death. Really? Really?
Egads, a Republican Senator implies that 99% of blacks will be voting for the Democrat! Next, Ta-Nehisi will get angry at someone pointing out that water is wet.
My husband and I voted in Georgia three weeks ago in Douglas County (about 20-25 miles west of the city of Atlanta). At that time, we waited in line about 45 minutes. Black folks made up probably at least 80-85% of those in line. It was absolutely fantastic.
Saxby Shameless is running scared, and just like the McCain campaign, the only way he knows to win is to attempt scare tactics. Unfortunately, it seems that in the South, those tactics work. People down here seem to not care about the ugliness with which McCain has conducted his campaign. Nor do they care about the fact that McCain/Palin haven't given details about how they'd unearth this country out of the ditch. They only care that a Black man might become President, and then if he does, he'll make sure all Whites in this country are punished because their ancestors were slaveowners.
Jim Martin is running a good campaign down here. We voted for him. I would love to see an upset. I wonder, though, if going to a run-off on Dec. 2nd helps him or hurts him.
"The fact that Cleland allowed himself to lose to a goober like that speaks to Coates' recent point about past Dem softness."
You don't get it. Pretty much everyone in my family in Georgia, including people I love dearly, vote Republican regardless of any other factor. My 20-year-old sister told me "Obama has some good ideas, but I have to vote on moral issues." Upon pressing she means abortion and gay marriage. That's how they think down here. Single-issue pro-life or anti-gay voters. It doesn't matter if the Republican is named Tinklenburg or Rumpelstiltskin. That's the anti-gay party, so they get their votes. Forever.
The 2002 election was a particularly egregious case. Unless you lived here, you have no idea how much the fear of terrorists influenced that election. Saxby blatantly played on that fear to paint a triple-amputee Vietnam veteran as a terrorist symphathiser. It was absurd, it was inhuman, and it worked. You can't just respond by saying "No, I hate terrorists and love America." The smear is what matters. The people here think Republicans are the party that really loves America, and to change that is a glacial, decades-long process. You have no idea.
So if Saxby loses, that will be among the happiest days of my life. People like that are so entrenched here. You have to forcibly remove the cancer.
TNC quotes and writes: ""He said that black Democrats are turning out in huge numbers for Obama. It's a major problem for Republican hopes. Is he not allowed to mention this?"
You don't understand. I hope he says it everyday until Election Day. I would love to buy him and sell him a bullhorn."
Let's just have the prick use Bull Connors' old bullhorn. It would be an "honor" for both of them.
As for Asher, who is generally more intelligent than most GOPers (not that it takes much), that, "Is he not allowed to mention this?" bit is Palinically pathetic. Who exactly said anything about "not allowing," exactly? No one but Asher. Just another day, another Republican-built straw man. This on a day when the moronic Palin claimed that being critiqued by the press somehow impinged on her 1st Amendment rights. How does that work exactly, Sarah, you uneducated fool?
There is nobody more worthy of having his arse kicked back from DC to Crackerton, GA than Saxby fucking Shameless. The man has played golf for six years on the back of winning a possibly crooked, certainly filthy election.
And look: my in-laws have been told (by c*nts like Boortz) that Obama is going to 'make all wages the same' and that if he wins, the Those People from downtown Atlanta will head out to Gwinnett Co. and steal their cha-r-coal grills. That's what we're dealing with here: White Flight Georgia not knowing whether to shit its pants at the Those People or vote like their negative-equity mortgages depended on it.
2002 was shitty. It was a shitty, crooked election in GA, and it's time to take it back.
"Or the GOP could, you know, actually try to reach out to black voters with anything but bad-faith token gestures." Reality Man
TR: In principle I agree with this, but in practice I think many Republicans feel it's too late. Eisenhower, I believe, only got 25% of the black vote. Maybe Eisenhower pursued some racist "Southern strategy" I don't know about, but if he did it wasn't a great success. In 1956 he did get Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, Louisiana, and Florida. However he lost all the other Southern states.
The evidence would seem to indicate that if the Republicans fully embraced Affirmative Action, expanding SCHIP, and rehabilitation rather than imprisonment for drug offenses; they would still lose the black vote by commanding percentages.
Correction: Eisenhower apparently received 32-39% of the black vote in 1956. This is still a minority, but respectable. Although at least some of those seemed to have voted Republican because of fear of the Dixiecrat element of the Democratic party.
Saxby Chambliss, you're no Elwyn Tinklenberg.
Nothing scares old, crusty, racist folk more than a black man with a ballot! Let's go Georgia!
LOL@Ed! Yes! It was 40 degrees in the sun on Monday dangit! :P
Thomas R writes: "Eisenhower apparently received 32-39% of the black vote in 1956. This is still a minority, but respectable. Although at least some of those seemed to have voted Republican because of fear of the Dixiecrat element of the Democratic party."
It's quite likely his total would have been higher if black voting in the South hadn't been suppressed by Jim Crow. I don't think your analysis makes much sense here, TR. Let's also remember that black voters felt a debt to FDR and Truman at the time.
It all seems irrelevant now. The Republicans firmly and deliberately told blacks to fuck off after 1964 in order to win the white Southern vote. That's really just undeniable history.
I think hilzoy has a good comment on this:
http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/11/fixing-the-pr-1.html
GREAT to see the determination.
BAD to have that situation.
In times where it isn't so historic, this could be the fruits of voter suppression. So, let's fix this...
Yes, and Georgians of each an every race - vote Jim Martin for Senate!
I can't imagine Martin stands as good a chance in a runoff v. Chambliss as he does RIGHT NOW(!!!) when he'll benefit from the Obama bump. I can't imagine the turnout being as strong overall.
"The Republicans firmly and deliberately told blacks to fuck off after 1964 in order to win the white Southern vote. That's really just undeniable history." ML&J
TR: True to some degree, but I don't know if Republicans can do anything to change the past or anger toward it. If McCain had ran a campaign devoted to reducing unemployment and poverty in the black community do you think he'd get much of the black vote? He would likely be doing better than he is, but I'm just not sure it'd be significantly better.
Democrats have their own groups they despise. They've tried to get more of the "white Evangelical" vote, but they're not about to abandon fears of theocracy to do it. They're not going to fanatically Anti-Communist to get the Vietnamese or Cuban vote.
TR replies: "True to some degree, but I don't know if Republicans can do anything to change the past or anger toward it. If McCain had ran a campaign devoted to reducing unemployment and poverty in the black community do you think he'd get much of the black vote? He would likely be doing better than he is, but I'm just not sure it'd be significantly better."
If you expect one campaign of probably-empty promises to do the trick, TR, you're bound to be disappointed. To date most GOP outreach towards black voters has consisted of saying "party of Lincoln" over and over again. Gee, I wonder why that doesn't work?
"Democrats have their own groups they despise. They've tried to get more of the "white Evangelical" vote, but they're not about to abandon fears of theocracy to do it."
Pure bullshit. Just ask Jimmy Carter how much he "despises" white evangelicals. Or Bill Clinton, who got his share of it.
You're not making much sense here at all.
It's quite likely his total would have been higher if black voting in the South hadn't been suppressed by Jim Crow.
That's worth reiterating. In 1960, turnout in Northern states was around 60% of eligible voters. In Mississippi, it was 25%.
One of the salient features of the period was the tension in the black vote, which had traditionally been Republican, but since the Depression had moved Democratic, particularly in the Northern cities. At the same time, the Democratic party was dependent on Dixiecrat votes (The Democrats had 64(!) Senate seats in 1960, but of course 1/3 of those were Dixiecrat votes).
The tension was resolved when Kennedy and Johnson chose to fight for black civil rights and the Republicans countered by courting the Dixiecrat vote. The rest, as they say, is history.
"Just ask Jimmy Carter how much he "despises" white evangelicals."
TR: He left the Southern Baptists for a more liberal form of the religion.
You really don't think liberals or Democrats try to win votes by fears of Evangelicals? What am I saying of course you don't. In your little world Democrats are virtuous beings attacked by those dastardly Republicans.
When Tom Metzger of the White Aryan Resistance ran for Congress what party's nomination did he win? And which candidate did Fred Phelps support, Gore or Bush?
You go TNC.
Let 'ol Saxby scream that the "other folks" are voting, because... goddamn it, the other folks are voting!!!
Those old white guys won't go down quietly, but one election soon all their screaming
just won't be enough.
Scream on Saxby. You may well squeak out this election, but it will be a squeaker. All those people voting are pushing you right into the corner you have been retreating into for nigh 40 years. Pretty soon you will feel the walls at your back and there will be no place to turn.
"If McCain had ran a campaign devoted to reducing unemployment and poverty in the black community do you think he'd get much of the black vote? He would likely be doing better than he is, but I'm just not sure it'd be significantly better."
It's not going to happen all at once of course. However, if the GOP had dedicated years to a good faith effort to cultivating a better relationship with black voters, a lot more African-Americans today would vote Republican. The problem is when the GOP message for years, regardless of its merits, had elements that would not appeal to many non-elite whites without the racial element thrown in. For instance, white Americans tend to be in favor of greater welfare spending when shown pictures of poor white people, but less in favor when shown pictures of poor black people. That's where the welfare queen race-baiting idea gets thrown in to turn those whites on the fence about welfare. George Wallace was big on government spending, subsidies and welfare, but only for white people.
TR quotes and replies: ""Just ask Jimmy Carter how much he "despises" white evangelicals."
TR: He left the Southern Baptists for a more liberal form of the religion. "
Are you saying he's no longer an evangelical? What makes you the Decider of such things? And since when are all evangelicals conservatives?
Now you're just flinging poo. Just admit you're arguing from a position of weakness.
"You really don't think liberals or Democrats try to win votes by fears of Evangelicals? What am I saying of course you don't. In your little world Democrats are virtuous beings attacked by those dastardly Republicans."
I think some Democrats - and some Republicans, too - like John McCain before he lost his mind and balls - were rightfully disgusted by the likes of Falwell and Robertson, and so of course they go after the Religious Right as a negative factor in American life, since it has been one. So you're wrong once again. You've been wrong point by point and you'll always be wrong here, because you're actually the one who thinks your side is backed by Divine Virtue. Give it up, Tommy. Your virtuous heroes ended up as war criminals and total scumbags, and that's why you know they deserve the asswhipping they're gonna get on Tuesday.
"Or the GOP could, you know, actually try to reach out to black voters with anything but bad-faith token gestures."
Smarten up. First, Powell and Rice were no more token blacks as the country's first and second black Secretaries of State than Obama would be as the first black President.
Second, Republicans have been bending over backwards to kiss black people's asses for eight years. Since most blacks need government handouts more than they need tax cuts, it doesn't matter what Republicans do. As long as Democrats keep offering more free government money and affirmative action to blacks, it makes sense for most blacks to vote for Democrats. Republicans are stupid to expect any gratitude from blacks for freeing them from slavery or anything else since. Just look at Powell, whose whole career was the result of over-promotions from Republicans from Reagan to Bush 43, and he turns around and endorses Obama. What a self-serving mediocrity. And what hypocrites Dems are to embrace him now, after he was either a fool or a liar when he waved that test tube at the UN.
Second, Republicans have been bending over backwards to kick black people's asses for eight years.
Fixed.
Fred, put down the pipe and back away slowly.
Early voted three weeks ago. There were lines then, too.
Part of this is the Republican governor and Republican Secretary of State, Karen Handel's fault--she just had a court tell her she couldn't disqualify voters without state-issued ID. Of course Suxby is afraid of "those people" voting.
"because you're actually the one who thinks your side is backed by Divine Virtue." ML&J
TR: This is bogus and childish even for you.
I've had said most everywhere that I find McCain's campaign mean and disappointing. I did not vote for Bush in 2004, but went with a write-in. Do you want me to go through yet another litany of bad things I blame on Republicans? I criticize Republicans and the radical Right quite often. You know it, you just want to pout because I don't think they're any worse than the Democrats. And because I agree with them on more issues.
However fine, here's various awful Republican things.
McKinley - Spanish-American War and effort to "convert the Philippines to Christianity."
Harding - Teapot Dome scandal.
Coolidge - Had a "Nordicist" view of who should be allowed into this country.
Hoover - Presided over crushing "the Bonus Army" protesters.
Eisenhower - Under him the Dulleses did that overthrow of Mossadeq and some other skullduggery.
Nixon - Pinochet and anti-Jewish statements.
Reagan - Inflated the deficit, supported a Guatemalan death-squad dictator, and Iran-Contra.
Bush Jr. - Botched job of Iraq, rising deficits, failed effort to reform Social Security, anti-environment, hurt our standing even in non-Muslim Asia, looked like an articulate moron in debates with Kerry, picked a crony like Harriet Miers for the Supreme Court, ends with one of the lowest approval ratings in history.
Wendell Wilkie - Randy old goat who may have had a thing for Madame Chiang Kai-Shek, which could've been against national interest.
Barry Goldwater - Played up states-rights in a way bound to stir up segregationists.
Randy Cunningham - Bribes
Mark Foley - Freak
David Vitter - Whoremonger
Generally speaking Republicans have also supported some terrible regimes or rebel movements because of Anti-Communism or Anti-Islamism.
Now you go. You name bad Democratic things or politicians.
I skipped over Teddy Roosevelt, Taft, Ford, and Bush Sr. If you want I can try to think on bad things about them too. Also I intended to do some on Republican Speakers of the House. As well as campaign tactics of Atwater or Rove.
Further the Republicans value a kind of rabid nationalism I find complacent and arrogant. The party is also too beholden to the oil and defense industry. They're too coddling of libertarians, in a sane nation "libertarian" would be about as much of a scare world as "socialist."
"You've been wrong point by point and you'll always be wrong here, because you're actually the one who thinks your side is backed by Divine Virtue."
Moe, while I disagree with Thomas R's basic politics, he's been just about the most polite and open-minded commenter and these boards and the leading conservative here in both of these qualities. Let's not alienate him with name-calling.
"Second, Republicans have been bending over backwards to kiss black people's asses for eight years."
Oh, so that's what Katrina was about. The fact that you think anything the GOP has done for the past eight years towards African-Americans was of enough substance to amount to "bending over backwards to kiss black people's asses" reveals more about you than anyone else.
"Since most blacks need government handouts more than they need tax cuts, it doesn't matter what Republicans do."
Or the GOP could have focused on cutting the tax brackets of the brackets that have a lot of African-Americans instead of the top 1%. (And cutting negative tax rates still does count as cutting taxes.)
"Just look at Powell, whose whole career was the result of over-promotions from Republicans from Reagan to Bush 43, and he turns around and endorses Obama."
What do you think these over-promotions were about? His role in covering-up My Lai, which I find wrong? Or just because he was black? He played a leading role in our first war against Iraq. The Powell Doctrine makes a lot of sense in many ways from a military standpoint today. Do you disagree with it? What makes you say he's been over-promoted?
"What a self-serving mediocrity. And what hypocrites Dems are to embrace him now, after he was either a fool or a liar when he waved that test tube at the UN."
A lot of liberals have still not forgiven him for that, but it's funny for you to express faux-outrage only now that he's endorsed Obama. While liberals appreciated the endorsement, what they appreciated even more was 1) his public condemnation of the GOP tactics this cycle, 2) his public concern over the GOP's rightward drift and 3) his public defense of the patriotism of American Muslims.
You know, if you didn't go around claiming black people are just genetically inferior and blaming black people for why you don't have a job, maybe everyone would take your rants a little more seriously.
Reality Man writes: "Moe, while I disagree with Thomas R's basic politics, he's been just about the most polite and open-minded commenter and these boards and the leading conservative here in both of these qualities. Let's not alienate him with name-calling."
I know he is, and I'm trying to cut him some slack here, but it is simply ridiculous for him to compare the deliberately racist (not to mention the gay-bashing) tactics of the Repiglicans to Democratic antipathy towards the Religious Right. I'm tired of being told by Republicans that "both sides do it" as though both sides "do it" equally. Spare me.
TR replies: "This is bogus and childish even for you."
No, Tommy, it isn't. I realize (as Reality Man says) that you're one of the more reasonable Republicans here, but you do indeed think your side is backed by Divine Virtue, just as I said, because of your "pro-life" position. At times it may be the only thing that keeps you in the Republican camp, but it is what keeps you there.
"You name bad Democratic things or politicians."
It would be easy to do, and I've done it in the past, but what's the point? My position isn't Democrats=Good, Republicans=Bad. My position is that the Repiglicans are very, very bad and that they're now the dominant force in the Republican Party, so you folks need a serious purge before reasonable people should even consider voting for you again. Right now, the Democrats are a better choice, especially since in our system they're the only other viable choice. Capisce? That sure doesn't make them a perfect choice, especially given how many of them rolled over for Dumbya these past 8 years.
http://nationalrepublicantrust.com/
The RNC and Co. finally pulled out all the stops. I'm so happy they are that worried. This Rev. Wright add has been running every hour on MSNBC and did run during the Sun. morning shows here.
Not really very good though.
"but you do indeed think your side is backed by Divine Virtue"
If you mean my religion I guess that's true. Well at least in the ideal. (In the mundane various Catholic priests or bishops are certainly not virtuous)
If you mean the Republican Party, hardly. It is closer to what I believe and I find it useful. It is not virtuous, it certainly doesn't have God on its side. It screwed up royally the last few years. It's too beholden to oil money, excessive nationalism, and a fanatical Protestantism. I just would prefer that to the Democratic party. I'm not willing to betray my values anymore than I have to.
And laugh at this all you want, but the Democratic Party also bothers me because it's disappointed me at times. I don't like it, but I remember thinking in 1992 that at least a Democratic President would be better with human rights. Only consolation for being that stupid is I was fifteen. After Somalia, Rwanda, the war in Southern Sudan, selling arms to genocidal Indonesians, etc I woke up. Like either party they're largely in it for themselves and their own power. They'll also gladly use racialized campaigns against Jindal or Obama or anti-Mormon campaigns against Romney. (And I really dislike Romney) Republicans are slime, largely, but at least they're slime people like me can influence. I see no reason to think Democrats would give more than lip-service to people like me.