« Keep the car running | Main | CNN on McCain's race-baiting » The views expressed here do not represent Appalachia...08 Oct 2008 06:03 pm Just saw this over at Andrew's. I have a couple reactions: 1.) I'm sympathetic to white folks on this one. This is like when some fool from your local news affiliate goes to interview someone in a black neighborhood and they pick out the most ignorant fool they can find. That dumbass is then taken as representative for us all. Seriously White people, having seen this, you guys should have some idea of what we go through. 2.) That said, this is why I think a lot of black people don't much care about racism as bigotry. I mean, seriously, these fools don't even really offend me. They've got much bigger problems than Barack Hussein Obama. I'm happy there will be less of these kooks on the planet. But in reality, is that what we were fighting for? This is the enemy? Really?? Comments (82)Comments on this entry have been closed. |
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Not only is this woman insane, but she's clearly drunk. I'm surprised Sullivan even posted this.
Too easy.
They could have found some 'normal' and sober white people who would have just as gladly said some crazy shit.
I wish I could share your optimism on this. Though these are particularly inarticulate representatives of a type, (and drunk, or more, if you ask me) the essence of what they are saying is not that far off a large, yet thankfully shrinking, portion of the population. Here in Florida it is not odd to hear educated people, including Doctors and Dentists espouse these exact same thoughts, though they are more likely to go into more detail concerning Obama's links to Kenyan radicals, Arab and Persian dictators, (though like this woman they don't know the difference) domesticate terrorists, birth certificate chicanery and the like. One veterinarian of my acquaintance and her husband, who is an officer in the reserves and heading to Afghanistan in six months, are convinced of Obama's domestic and Islamist ties. They are even in that rare paradoxical position of believing Obama is a Muslim, but still is inordinately influenced by his Christian pastor.
Again, I don't know how prevalent this is statewide, but these ideas are not just held by inarticulate, drunk hillbillies on an ATV without helmets. Were it only so.
Anyone else feel really bad for that dog?
While I do not know these people, I recognize them. I have known them all my life. I am surrounded by them here in Georgia, and have known them in the Carolinas as well. Hell, I am related to some of them, no doubt.
They are ill-fed, uneducated, empty of hope and worn out from too many years of all the above. I actually pity them.
But, these people probably have children somewhere. Maybe we can work on bringing those kids some hope, soon.
God, that's just sad. The woman is absolutely toasted.
In what I'm sure could be called the grand tradition of white privilege, though, i watched this and didn't even think "whites" - i just thought boozed rednecks. Didnt even occur to me that these could be my representatives. More just embarrassing that they're from my country, not my race.
Then again - white identity can be pretty factional. These people have my pity/contempt. But I'm positively mortified by the Fla. Jews who believe the same thing. Don't get me started on that.
Is it too late for McCain to select this woman to take over for Palin?
Well, Ta-Nehisi, I'm afraid I know a whole lot of folks just like the ones in this clip. I'm surrounded by 'em here in Arkansas, and these folks are probably very representative. They couldn't find the middle east on a globe or map, much less iraq or iran. I had a bunch of 'em telling me the Russians were rollin' down the streets of 'lanta when the Georgian mosquito provoked the Russian bear. And, logic and facts (as we all well know, facts have a librul [sic] bi-ass [sic]. It's not even fun to mock these folks.
I feel sorry for them, but Ta-Nehisi, they are as dangerous as any coked out skinhead with a machine gun. In this part of the mountains, any stranger or newcomer is pretty well watched with suspicion. Texans are the primary target of bigotry in this part of the world, but with our increasing Hispanic population, that's becoming an issue with the uneducated, sub-literate folks who only know Fake News Channel - don't even watch the local (well, 85 miles away) news and weather - they're too 'librul' and loves them 'brown folks' (actual quote I got from a neighbor).
Politics and war are spirit brothers. In a serious political battle, EVERYBODY gets down and dirty. The MONEY is the problem in politics, war, racism, ethnic chauvinism, semi-racism, sexism, religious bigotry, and God knows what. The LOVE of MONEY is the root of all evil. "Ma, Ma! Where's Pa? He's gone to the Whitehouse, Hah! Hah! Hah!" On Oct. 25, we shall discover that Senator Obama impregnated three white women in a sex orgy, and that Senator McCain paid an nineteen-year old man to suck YOU-KNOW-WHAT and that McCain raped two Korean women in the back seat of a taxi. On Oct, 26, there shall be more revelations.
TNC:
I get your point #1. But perhaps you could clarify what "white folks" you're talking about. A lot of us "White People" certainly have "some idea" of what black people go through, and gasp just the same as you do when a local news affiliate interviews the most ignorant fool in a black neighborhood. Just sayin'.
Those folks don't speak for white Americans ... who does Mr. Coates? Was that ever decided?
Pat Buchanan?
Dude you are soooo banned.
There's an Atanarjuat registered at the Obama site - are you a parody poster?
Because they aren't believable or funny posts, unfortunately.
"they are salt-of-the-Earth folk who love their country and wave Old Glory with pride"
Oh, they do love their country. Though many of them around my parts wave the Confederate flag with pride instead. I have no idea if that means you love America just as much or not.
That being said, they are utterly ignorant, and proud of it. Knowledge is *not* a virtue in said areas. I should know, it applies to everyone in my family. We're never getting their votes. Oh well. They can have their dying region.
Should people work up a sweat about smear tactics? Perhaps Obama is minimally hypocritical with respect to what the rotten Corporate Beast system allows. McCain must have taken more bribes than Obama, because McCain has been around so much longer than Obama. Bribes breed hypocrisy.
Naturally, the Obama camp wants to give McCain supporters a bad image. Naturally, the McCain camp wants to give Obama supporters a bad image. Politics is the battle of good images, bad images, attacking sound bites, defending sound bites, and media manipulation. Birds gotta fly. Fish gotta swim. Political camps gotta smear.
What should Obama and McCain do? Speak from their hearts using their wisdom for balance and restraint. God is the supernatural power for the theist, and metaphorical God is the placebo power for the agnostic and the atheist. Follow God. Speak from the spiritual heart. Minimize greed and hypocrisy. Maximize spiritual generosity and spiritual commitment to truth. Should we all say, "God bless America", and then hope that God exists and is on our side?
okay...obviously some crazy stuff...
but just think about this, and this might even be crazier: if obama had picked hillary as his veep, this woman would have probably voted for obama.
Lauren hits the nail on the head. These people aren't "white people," they're hillbillies, and if they get lucky, maybe they could upgrade to rednecks. (I'll take a Texas redneck over an Arkansas hillbilly any day.)
Among more urbane white people, they get even more contempt than the token ignorant black guy. It's something along the lines of, "The black people have been oppressed and enslaved throughout their history; what's your excuse?"
They're also one of the reasons why white people tend to have more interest in racism as bigotry than as an institution. This kind of group is more bigoted but not economically strong enough to implement any kind of institution, racial or otherwise. By stressing the evils of racism as bigotry, and more or less ignoring institutional racism, white people have effectively made these guys our scapegoat for racism at large. Try talking to Joe Sixpack on the street sometime. He'll probably tell you, "Sure, racism exists, with those hicks down in Alabama." Problem solved.
Ta-Nehisi, I love you dearly, but would you please learn the difference between THEIR (of them), THEY'RE (they are) and THERE ARE? Please, please, please....
I see your point, but these people don't represent white people in any sense, but they do represent a subset of people (perhaps a small one) who will vote McCain for the reasons they describe to great effect (if they are up and about that Tuesday). They may be addled but they can still hear a dogwhistle.
Thank you for your response. I was disappointed when a friend sent it to me and disappointed when I saw that Andrew had posted it. I'm an Appalachian and these caricaturizations and this kind of cultural scapegoating was offensive to me. I told my friend that I thought the video wreaked of classism and regionalism. I sent her an excerpt from an essay by Rebecca Solnit.
http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articles/article/2845
HATING WHITE SOUTHERNERS, particularly poor white southerners, and often by extension any poor rustic whites, seems to be a legacy of the civil rights movement. So far as I can tell (I came later), well-meaning people outside the South were horrified by the culture of Jim Crow, with its segregation, discrimination, and violence—and rightly so. Over the past couple of years, I’ve spent time in New Orleans and on the Gulf Coast, and I myself was horrified by the racial violence that transpired during the chaos of Katrina and some of the everyday apartheid and racist vileness that persists in the region. But I also recently ran into raging white racists on the periphery of Detroit, Michigan, right across the river from Canada. And the last ostentatious racists I met were the middle-aged heir of a fabulously wealthy family whose hallowed name is smeared all over the Northeast and his yachting buddy, right here in left-coast ultra-urban San Francisco. Racism is pervasive. The pretense that it belongs solely to poor people who talk slow lets the rest of us off the hook.
So on the one hand we have white people who hate black people. On the other hand we have white people who hate other white people on the grounds that they hate black people. But that latter hatred accuses many wrongfully, and it serves as a convenient coverup for the racism that is all around us. The reason why it matters is because middle-class people despising poor people becomes your basic class war, and the ongoing insults seem to have been at least part of what has weakened the environmental movement in particular and progressive politics in general.
Ta-Nehisi, you're a big football fan so I'm curious about your thoughts on the following scenario.
Let's say you're a fan of the most historic and storied franchise in NFL history: your team has won the most championships, has the biggest stadium, the most revenue, etc. But the team has fallen on hard times - a couple of big free agent busts and some poor draft choices and now you've missed the playoffs two straight years. Your crazy Dan Snyder-esque owner decides on a gimmick - the fans get to choose the QB and his backup from two available pairs:
Pair #1) Starting QB is Jason Campbell, a young black quarterback who's been in the league only a few years but shows an uncanny ability to keep cool under pressure and never makes mistakes. He has a strong arm and can throw downfield when needed but mostly completes short, accurate passes. He'll be backed up by Brad Johnson, an old hand who's getting on in age but has played in virtually every system and knows the ins and outs of the game better than anyone around.
Pair #2) Brett Favre, the all-American superstar of yesteryear who has already come out of retirement once. The media loved him unconditionally in the past, even when he was dealing with personal issues like an addiction to painkillers, but now they're beginning to question his selfishness. A known gunslinger, he can definitely win you a game but is just as likely to throw an interception as a touchdown in crunch time. He'll be backed up by..............Kathy Ireland. Yes THAT Kathy Ireland. She's hot and sassy and will really energize the team. Sure, she isn't a football player but she played one in Necessary Roughness.
So who do you pick to lead your flailing team for the next 4-8 years - Campbell/Johnson or Favre/Ireland?
At least she knew that Spain is one of our allies.
They are sad, sad people, but every now and then one of them gets out and sees the bigger world around them. They can be saved with education.
But I'm guessing that not many of these folks will show up on voting day.
And I felt bad for the guy trying not to get his face on the camera. I think he was embarrassed, but my dramatic side wants to think he's a killer on the lam.
I watched the first 20 seconds at Andrew's and gave up. As others have noted, the woman appears a few steps beyond toasted, so this isn't even "what random white rural lady thinks, meant to represent all those 'other' white rural folks" but "what random white rural lady will say on camera when 4 sheets to the wind." Finding drunken racists doesn't strike me as a news scoop.
@JT: The white spokesperson is the guy who sings "Raising McCain."
Do you think Wonkette would trade us Atanarjuat for their pro-Nader troll, who is sort of amusing in an extremely long-winded and tendentious fashion?
And another thing:
But in reality, is that what we were fighting for? This is the enemy? Really??
No. These people support your racism-as-bigotry argument well. But there are times when racism-as-bigotry should enrage us. Like when racism-as-bigotry is used to encite bigoted racism.
When a sheriff in uniform stands on stage at a presidential election rally and uses "Barack Hussein Obama" as an applause line. When a vice presidential candidate paints her opponent as a terrorist. These are some of the ways we create (or keep alive) the kinds of people like the ones shown in this video.
We can't just sit by and let this type of bigotry and racism go unchallenged. No. We must fight.
Ta-Nehisi...I'm a white guy and I wish I had your attitude towards this. Just a few minutes after I saw this video, I got an e-mail FW from my girlfriend's parents that SWORE that Obama was a Muslim and a bigot and his family was behind the 'recent chaos' in Kenya. The problem is that it's easy to laugh at these cartoonish rednecks. It distracts from the fact that many seemingly-normal people out there think (and vote) like them.
Ah, the quiet dignity of small town Americans.
@rumble:
I understand being *embarrassed* by these people, or being offended if someone said "This is what people are like the Appalachias". But offended that someone sent it to you, or posted it? That smacks of pure denial.
You're not wrong that there's a strain of pure Southern-baiting in liberal culture. But the people in this video are not a wacky caricature dreamed up by smug New Yorkers---they're real, actual people, being filmed by one of their kids, having a grand ol' time. To simply draw yourself up sniffily whenever someone notices the existence of these people is to compound the problem.
I like how she pronounces 'Arab' like Soulja Boy's sidekick (his name is Arab). And check out the dude in the back doing the Tony Yayo dance. But yeah, like some commenter said, TNC just doesn't get what it means to be white when he says that maybe we white folks will now understand what it's like when local news puts some ignorant black kid on TV. I don't look at these people and think, "ah, what an embarrassment to our white race!" Only white supremacists think of themselves as white - the rest of us just think of whiteness as the default. As far as ethnic identity goes, I think of myself as Jewish. If these people were Jewish, then I might squirm a little.
This could have been a scene from any of my last 20 family reunions.
In the spirit of Tim Wise's excellent article about the nature of white privilege, the fact that most of us white people do not particularly feel that our "whiteness" is being indicted by this video in the way that "blackness" might be if the subjects were black, is an element of white privilege. For us white folks, class gets to trump race. It remains something of the lingering baggage of racism (and of general ethnic chauvinism) the extent to which this is not true for non-whites.
I wasn’t disappointed that Sullivan posted the video; I’m a big fan of kino-pravda. I can understand why many would see the posting of the video as classist, elitist, or whatever, especially coming from a UK expat who works on the Elitist East Coast.
It’s wrong to assume that southerners, or natives of Appalachia, or Okies, or whomever are racist by default. But there is clear racist behavior in this clip from at least two men present . But like TNC says, this is not the kind of racism you even need to hate. This is not institutional racism. This is a gaggle of rednecks, (or hillbillies I guess, really don’t know the difference), doing what they do.
The most tragic thing about this clip isn’t the racism, though. It’s the ignorance.
I agree, Lemmy. In an ideal world, all races would feel no particular embarrassment when a member of their race made a fool of himself. Or herself. Or [whatever the proper personal pronoun is for transexuals]self. It's also true that in an ideal world, black people wouldn't have any more contempt for Clarence Thomas than they do for Scalia, just as whites don't call people like, say, that nutty Father Pfleger fellow a traitor, though many of us disagree with what he says.
Smears are irrelevant! Drunken people are irrelevant! It is totally irrelevant if Ta-Nehisi Coates misspells a few words or uses a ton of obscenities. Politics is serious business! Politics is war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The spiritual goal is honesty, empathy, God, and the optimal political compromise.
"Bush lied and my son died." "The federal bureaucracy bankrupted my business." What is really going on? What should really be done?
Should we forget all about smears? Obama admires JFK and MLK. McCain admires Teddy Roosevelt. On the basis of the two preceding statements, should we support Obama?
Consider 5 hypotheses:
1. Government is ALWAYS greedy, hypocritical, and corrupt whether it is 98% capitalist or 100% socialist.
2. Government is ALWAYS a trade-off between capitalism and socialism.
3. Government is ALWAYS a trade-off with socialistic support of a bureaucratic welfare mess or capitalistic support of military-industrial, skull-busting mess.
4. Socialism might OR MIGHT NOT be kinder than capitalism, because neither of those two things really exists. Instead, what exists is money, greed, hypocrisy, brainwashing, ideological tyranny, semi-racist exploitation, and media manipulation.
5. In Chicago, at one time, Al Capone was called the "Unofficial Mayor of Chicago."
Is Obama actually the lesser of the two evils?
Anyone else feel really bad for that dog?
You bet I did. He looked liked a nice dog, sitting there well behaved and dignified. He's stuck with these low life subhumans and God only knows what will happen to him eventually.
About the woman? She's garbage, a complete waste of DNA. Her lack of education, her poverty, her self hatred, her addiction to alcohol, and her low self esteem are not excuses for hating another person without cause. That's all she's doing is spewing her hatred. She knows damn well she's just shooting off her mouth and she's too drunk to care.
Some people are just trash, she's one of them. Maybe she'll drag her sorry ass to the polls and maybe she won't. But, yes, people like her are out there. So what? We have to share the country with a lot of undesirables. The only good thing about them is they eventually die.
He looked liked a nice dog, sitting there well behaved and dignified. He's stuck with these low life subhumans and God only knows what will happen to him eventually.
Oh, he looks happy and well-fed. People like that usually take very good care of their dogs, although sometimes they scrimp a little on euthanasia, if you know what I mean.
Misha. I'm bad at grammar and spelling. It's been addressed a few times on here. If I miss something please e-mail me. I'm pretty good about fixing that sort of thing.
Sadly, I cannot share you optimism. I have heard this vile racist filth being spewed in these exact words in San Diego and in more subtle ways in Seattle and Baltimore.
When I left San Dog as a teenager I thought the racism there was confined to the Mexican/Illiegal Immigrant variety.
I guess all bets were off after 9/11 because I have now heard my step grand parents speak like this with their friends about Barack Obama.
I lived in Seattle on 9/11 and have seen the resulting suspicion of any man with brown skin.
We then moved to the DC/Baltimore area (My husband was military) and I saw the same kind of racism there. But then I experienced a more what most would consider "conventional" racism when I represented foster children in Baltimore. Of my 120+ clients 5 were white and the courts would bend over backward to make sure they were reunited with their families while my other clients were denied sibling visits and reunification services.
Now I am back in Seattle and in my work with foster kids I see the institutional racism as well as the demonization of "The Other" mentality which I also consider racism.
Geographically there seem to be some differences in what society finds acceptable and unacceptable in terms of racism but make no mistake: it is everywhere and it is disgusting in all its forms.
Honestly, I would rathat have these kinds of racists - the ones that are honest about their bigotry - at least you know where they stand and they are not hiding behind some pretty words.
i want some of what dave brown is smoking.
Liza,
It's nice to find out who's now in charge of who's subhuman, who's garbage, and whose death will be a good thing.
Thank you for a lovely model of how educated, prosperous, self-confident folk demonstrate their greater value in the world.
My reaction: Shrug
Humans need to evolve. I'm tired of race, gender, sexual orientation being a hindrance for some people. Truly primitive.
Dave,
Your football analogy is interesting, but it what is misses is the fact that Jason Campbell isn't the trailblazer that Obama is. Rather than Campbell/Johnson vs Favre/Ireland, I think that Doug Johnson or Warren Moon/Don Strock vs Archie Manning/Tammy Faye Bakker is more apropos.
Sporcupine,
No, this is not about the educated and the prosperous people versus the uneducated, poor, and drunk people.
It is about tolerance versus intolerance.
THIS woman is full of hate and it doesn't matter why. That is my point. She is unlikely to change.
I grew up with segregation and now I'm in Arizona surrounded by people who hate undocumented workers.
I'm burned out on this hatred. After five decades, you might be too.
I think it's only an *assumption* that this woman is drunk.
I grew up around rednecks. I've seen plenty of people like that who were sober. Unfortunately.
TC, don't get all flaccid on these cats.
While I understand your point, the fact remains that although the ignorant fools from the hood dont represent all of black america, there are enough of them that it's a problem that needs to be addressed, not ignored like "oh they just a bunch of bad apples". The % of blacks not repped by the ignorant clowns also dont share their viewpoints on most topics. I highly doubt you'll find black college grads who think education is only for white people or that AIDS was created to kill blacks.
The clowns in that video may not represent white america to the tee, but there are enough degenerates to warrant putting them on full blast. Plus as someone else said, there are plenty of people who go to work in suits everyday who share their mindset. There are college educated whites who believe Obama is a Muslim, who pals around with terrorists and is the Manchurian candidate from Islamic radicals. I battle with them everyday on right wing blogs. That's the difference.
this is the mentality you need to have with these people:
"I want this guy dead! I want his family dead! I want his house burned to the ground! I want to go there in the middle of the night and piss on his ashes!"
On the spokespeople front: I don't see this and think "white people like me" but that's the luxury of being in the majority. Doesn't really happen with men and women since we're 50-50, but think of a true idiot of your profession getting up there and sounding off as "the football coach" or "the editor" or "the sales clerk." And people can then tsk tsk at those football coaches/editors/sales clerks, while you protest on the sidelines that that jerk is not at all representative of your subgroup. It's why I think the few Appalachians in the thread cringe the most strongly.
Liza,
No excuses for hate.
No excuses for calling people subhuman.
No excuses for calling them a waste of DNA.
No excuses for looking forward to their deaths.
It's not okay if you're drunk and not okay if you're sober.
It's not okay if you're uneducated and not okay if you have a Ph.D. and a Nobel Prize.
It's not okay if you grew up in the South or on the moon.
It's not okay if you live among bigots and not okay if you live among the most inclusive people on earth.
It's not okay if you're 5, 25, 55, or 105.
No excuses for hate.
Could smear tactics and name calling be the death of us all? Let us assume that God does exist as a supernatural entity. OK, let's follow God. Let us assume that miracles, immortal souls, and supernatural entities are total nonsense. OK, let us follow Albert Einstein in talking and thinking about God as a spiritual metaphor and nothing else.
Let us assume that almost all blah-blah about race, ethnicity, sexism, creedal anathemas, and what not might or might not be true. Let us think about politics as a cold war, that is somewhat brutal now, and might indeed turn into something very much worse.
Robert Dole said, "Politics is hardball - it's not bean bags." People often are killed or exploited on the basis of political convictions or traditional bigotries. Consider two attitudes: 1. Politics is war, war is politics, and the Devil take the loser.
2. Politics is the art of compromise and the art of finding the grace of God in a bad situation.
Do Jared Taylor, Patrick J. Buchanan, Malcolm X, and Louis Farrakhan represent dangerous ideologies? Do we want to choose up sides between Romulus and Remus, who represent the future leaders of American parties? Suppose Romulus represents an ideology VERY strongly oriented toward Taylor/Buchanan. Suppose Remus represents an ideology VERY strongly oriented toward Malcolm X, Louis Farrakhan, or someone else who is not 100% Mr. Nice Guy. Could America very easily go from hardball politics to something like Rome versus Carthage politics? Is America perhaps at a dangerous crossroads? Fifty years from now, is the U.S.A. going to have an official or uofficial ruler who is very similar to Pablo Escobar - but VERY MUCH ALIVE?
So on the one hand we have white people who hate black people. On the other hand we have white people who hate other white people on the grounds that they hate black people.
Worst. False. Equivalency. Ever.
Seriously?
A beautiful, powerful post.
The woman is not a racist -- she made a point about it -- but if you really look forward to the day when there are fewer women like her on this earth, I'd say you are. Apologize.
"Give us a break!" LOL. She's making all the PUMAs look bad.
Two words: White Trash.
A tacit assumption follow folks as these; in perhaps oversimplified terms they are widely thought to be dumb ass rednecks, with narrow views. As some have noted, many others share many of their views regardless of station in life. In short po-folks tend to be treated bad by many other folks more so than the reverse; generally, most po-folks resent this situation. Also, they tend to be around and are connected to social groups who are overwhelmed by a host of social pathologies: booze, drugs, poor health, dismal employment, etc. One factor I am fairly certain about that much of their hate and rage stems from these conditions that have long plagued them, and do not care to be put down, belittled, mocked nor reminded about their deprivations. Unlike Palin they are indeed folksy, and many likely realize that Palin and McCain are using them. I suspect as all these factors are examined by themselves and the broader society, Obama will be a lot better in many of their eyes than Palin and McCain; in short they are cannon fodder to folks like Palin and McCain. Those in rural areas have a vast amount of unmet needs that have long been overlooked. Do not sell these folks short, this does suggest that one should seek cumbauya with them as they are too often confronting their ills. TNC, you basically got it correct!
This woman is a Democrat. She is our base. How many of you actually watched enough of this video to get to the part where she claims to be a Hillary Clinton supporter? Who is complaining about this woman if Clinton had won the primary? Nobody, because we'd need her vote to help Hillary win in whatever jerkwater these people crawled out of. I agree with Te-Nehisi's thesis that the issue for society is eliminating racist and discriminatory practices and policies not racist individuals, but I would suggest that racist fools can be useful if they vote for you. In fact, I believe our racist fools need better coordination for counter attacks and we need a rumor mill. I think we need to do more to cater to the Jerry Springer demo.
Barry! Barry! Barry!
Actually, Ta-Nehisi, I think DMX might be your ignorant ass spokesperson: http://kottke.org/08/03/dmx-hasnt-heard-of-barack-obama
But seriously, does anybody else get the impression that that woman is mad krunked? Maybe I'm just unfamiliar with Appalachia, but she seems pretty done.
I like them - they seem nice. If someone took the trouble to talk to them they might well become enthusiastic supporters of Barak Hussain Obama (or they might not - they will decide based on the best information they have but given that Republicans are the ones who made the effort it is not surprising that they see things their way)
Look. I grew up white trash, or rural white, or whatever you want to call it. In my family, after Thanksgiving dinner we go shootin'. I can, in fact, skin an animal and I know how to tan it's hide using it's brain. (Best way, as per my N.A. ancestry) My parents were mill workers in the Northwest. I have my redneck bona fides in order. What you fail to realize is that there are entire towns, and majorities in entire states that actually think exactly like this. And they are easily manipulated and they are angry at 'elites'. Meaning people who actually know where a period belongs in a sentence. If you would have asked me a year ago how many of these people were still around, I'd have insisted it was an anomaly. An anachronism. I have been disabused of my illusion since Obama, whom I have vocally supported since 2004, rose to prominence. This has brought out some shit I'd have previously have insisted we'd grown beyond. Not so. I tell you, this shit matters. I don't feel like I'm above it. Populism is a hellish force. Ask chairman Mao.
I don't hate this woman. I am devoid of feeling for her, and there is a huge difference.
Were it not for her obnoxious behavior and her racist rant about Obama, I would undoubtedly feel compassion for her given what her life must be like.
Alright, so I'm not a kind enough person to care about someone who is vitriolic and racist and full of hatred. I do not think that she is representative of the majority of white people in Appalachia. Even if she were, I would still strongly support a domestic agenda that would improve education, provide healthcare, and create job opportunities for those people. There is always hope for the next generation.
That is essentially the meaning of tolerance.
everybody please stop saying "folks."
What is WRONG with you people? Are your role models MLK, Albert Einstein, Lao Tzu, Mohandas Gandhi, and Ralph Waldo Emerson? Who are your FIVE greatest role models? Ta-Nehisi Coates, who are your FIVE greatest role models? JUST TELL US!!!!!!!
Did MLK EVER sell out? Did he die for YOU, Ta-Nehisi Coates and your sons and your grandsons?
WHAT do you, Ta-Nehisi Coates, really believe in? It it American football? Is it apple pie, or your family, or the American dream, or an international dream? Do you REALLY believe in God as a supernatural entity, in God as Albert Einstein's spiritual metaphor, or in God as the spiritual essence of the human experience?
What is the basic idea of political success? One answer might be to follow MLK. A second answer might be to follow Benjamin Franklin. A third answer might be to follow a balance between your FIVE greatest role models, your FIVE greatest sources of knowledge on politics, economics, science, religion, and how to put things together, and your OWN five greatest principles. FIND GOD and FOLLOW the principles that you REALLY believe in - is that worth attempting as an approach to politics?
RE: Dave Brown
What the hell is your point?
Re: sporkupine, no excuse for hate:
That was the truest, most apropos thing I've read in a long time. Thank you.
These views are not just the ignorant raving of "po' white trash." You all want to dismiss this racism as a product of ignorance, when the reality is that what you are seeing is the result of fear--fear of the loss of white status that Obama's candidacy represents. Check out the youtube link below. There you will see sober, middle-class Iowans (Republicans)who when confronted with logic still insist that Obama is an unknown Muslim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E
I had some things to say here, but at this point in the comments flow, they're not even worth saying. Hope this woman gets sobered up though...
But what I really wanted to do is to repeat karen marie's point: I too want some of whatever the F*&# dave brown is smoking. I could use a quick break from reality.
perfect video to illustrate my point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/10/8/21251/8186/934/624523
i mean the ignorance is stunning and these aren't rednecks from the hills.. These people want to degenerates. They revel in it.
There should be no tolerance for these type of morons. They are a threat to society as we know it and the future of this country unless they are directly confronted and shown to be the imbeciles they are. I mean you had a woman seriously say with a straight face that she's seen more interviews with Palin than Obama recently. How can anyone sit here with a straight face and tolerate absolute stupidity like this? Or excuse it even?
Absolute idiocy like this is dangerous and always needs to be called out and exposed until its vaporized.
These views are not just the ignorant raving of "po' white trash." You all want to dismiss this racism as a product of ignorance, when the reality is that what you are seeing is the result of fear--fear of the loss of white status that Obama's candidacy represents.
These people probably have a car, an ATV, some land that their grandparents owned, and a state that's losing jobs at triple the rate of the rest of the country. And white status.
What the fuck has white status ever gotten these people except a misplaced sense that they're better than black people? White status doesn't pay their bills. White status doesn't get them a job. White status won't ever get them anywhere outside of Appalachia: not with that accent; not with those teeth.
Poor, rural white folks can't cash in their white status for anything that's worth shit. And while that doesn't justify the fact that they think they've got that status in the first place, and especially doesn't justify racism and xenophobia and the way it hurts people, the thing that's actually being taken from these particular people is worthless. And it's always been worthless, since well before the Civil war.
Which is why this is more sad than infuriating.
My father's family is from Northwest Arkansas. Some of them are indeed this ignorant and racist. Yet I feel where Coates is coming from and I thank him. Yes we have idiots, but every community has idiots. I can easily imagine someone from up North saying her exact tirade, but such a woman wouldn't speak with a "hick" accent so might not be as hilarious for y'all/you'uns.
Historically speaking in the mountains people become isolated and grow suspicious of outsiders. The Appalachians were settled by Scots who highly valued loyalty and their kinfolk. Some politicians and activists know how to play on that. Notice she's more obsessed with the idea he's "An A-Rab" than anything. This isn't a "white thing", it happens in similar situations elsewhere. The Bhutanese won't let Nepalese become citizens and kept tourists at bay for generations. The Ethiopians were sometimes highly hostile to "outsiders."
So basically yes there is a strong element of xenophobia and racism in Appalachia or Arkansas. However there's more than that too. Besides which there's a history of these people being exploited and set-against "blacks" for political gain. This kind of woman, an Appalachian Hillary supporter, could be made to see similarities in her situation to that of many African Americans. (Poor schools, being misused by politicians, being sneered at by other whites for "talking wrong", drug abuse issues, etc) Unfortunately ignorance and fear is able to be used to keep these people from doing so.
That's a weird thing to say for someone who usually votes Republican, but there are many things I don't like about the Republican Party. And if Appalachians do vote Republican I'd certainly prefer they do so because of issues and not fear-mongering. I think I'd be happy if Pro-Choice Appalachians who believe in more government programs voted solidly for Obama.
That's actually a pretty good one.
My down south family in Arkansas is non-cutting-their-hair-women, men are all dead from eating their lard-based cooking women.
I got this: "First off, Obama is a Mooooslim. He might be working for them. Second off...He's a nigger and I'm not going to vote for one of them either."
Game over.
Obamba is going to win anyway. I run into stupid rednecks that feel like have to make a stupid racist joke before they tell you they are going to vote for Obama. Like they have to build up white cred before they tell you they don't want McCain. "If Obama wins he's going to give everyone a bunch of bananas", "I'm not voting for McCain, hell no". All those folks waiting for a Bradley effect are going to get a neat surprise. It's going to work backwards.
All the vituperation against these people misses out some very basic facts: they are the result of a heavily class-stratified society that doesn't always feel comfortable talking about class. We assume that certain levels of education and edification are "natural" and to be expected without recognizing them as very complex, extensive interventions into the human condition. We tend to naturalize the differences between ourselves and those "lower" in social rank (attributing it to defects in character) while minimizing or failing to understand entirely the differences between ourselves and those "higher" in rank, status, and education.
Fascinating! Does anyone know what foreign language they were speaking?
And kids, this is why the bars are closed on election day...
These views are not just the ignorant raving of "po' white trash." You all want to dismiss this racism as a product of ignorance, when the reality is that what you are seeing is the result of fear--fear of the loss of white status that Obama's candidacy represents.
Fear and ignorance are often very closely related. Sometimes, it is very difficult to tell the difference as one seems to spawn the other.
Just for the record, I think someone should mention that a lack of education is not the kind of ignorance we are talking about. This kind of ignorance is mostly about being part of a closed society, having a very limited life experience with biased input, and having few or no alternatives. However, even in these societies there are many who overcome these barriers.
If you look at the immigration issues in Arizona, you find many middle class white people who are seemingly without any of these limitations but have racist opinions about undocumented immigrants.
Look more closely and there is still the same fear and ignorance. They listen to right wing talk radio (and other right wing media) where there is an immense amount of misinformation and distortions of truth. They talk to each other and this amplifies the distortions. And they exclude and dismiss those who challenge the lies and distortions. Most importantly, most of them will never go face to face with the undocumented workers. They leave that to the vigilante groups. The net result is that they have created a closed society where undocumented immigrants are blamed for everything that is wrong with the economy, healthcare, national security, and so on. I am not exaggerating.
Racism is always about fear and ignorance.
Now that I think about it, TNC, you could have put up a picture of George W Bush and made the same point. He's is Exhibit A of people who exhibit that combination of arrogance and ignorance. Give us a break! :)
Its not a white thing or black thing though. Its a poor thing. Even MLK realized this before he was murdered.
Do you think that those people who say that they won't be voting for Obama because he's secretly a Muslim really believe that?
I think they feel that it looks better for them to express that prejudice than to admit that they won't vote for Obama because he's black.
The difference between these three and National Review's Corner is accent, diction and grooming - maybe.
I do cringe when I see this, because my mother and her family are from Appalachia, even though that would be all they have in common with these three.
That said, I think the suggestion that ignorance, or at least lack of education, is the reason that she's so warped is ridiculous. Ivy-league educations haven't made anyone on the conservative blogs, all of whom offer similar rationales to vote against Obama, any better. The lack of a college education hasn't kept my uncle and his wife from supporting him, either.
Bigots are just bigots. I don't think you can educate it away.
But as a born and raised Pennsyltuckian (I'm from a rather "Appalachia" small town about 10 miles south of Wilkes-Barre, PA, my cousins have taken roadkill off the side of the road, put it in the bed of their truck, and taken it home to make keilbasa--in case you need some hillbilly street cred from me), the You Tube video is simply not what we need to be concerned about. Indeed, there are crazy redneck hillbillies out there. But these crazies, by and large, have no job, no influence, and really provide little to American society.
The people we really need to worry about are the average Joe-sixpack and soccer mom types. The people who have jobs, go to church, raise their kids and generally lead "normal" American lives. These are people are only marginally comfortable with Obama as a black man with the middle name Hussein. And are the ones that can be swayed by McCain's disgusting campaign as of late. These people know that it's not OK to be racist. And I'm sure none of them would consider themselves a racist. Yet, these people were raised by parents who were often openly racist. Thus, people in my town are apt to say that "Obama just seems so different" or "Obama seems very articulate, but there's just something about him I don't like". While they don't come out and say that they're not comfortable with him because he's black--that's exactly what they're saying. McCain's recent BarackHUSSEINObama campaign plays right into the fears of these people. It's validation for people who are looking for somebody to say, "Hey, it's ok to not "be comfortable" with him. It's ok to not like him because he's "different"." McCain just makes their latent racism and xenophobia acceptable.
I don't fear those YouTube idiots. I do fear however, the McCain campaign's effect on the mainstream Americans who are borderline about Obama. Obama has coaxed them out of their shells with his calmness, honesty and patience. And McCain's about to drive them back in by preying on these old fears.
A bit of perspective on the "black folks on TV" issue. I once asked a Black TV reporter friend why they interview the most ignorant, nappy headed, poorly spoken, most ghetto person to give the eye witness statement of what happened during the shooting/car accident/house fire. His response:
"The car accident/house fire happened at 10 in the morning. Who else do you think is home at that time?"
Those Black people who are about something have jobs and won't witness the 10 a.m. shooting/car accident/house fire. Conversely, White people who have anything on the ball simply don't care if Obama is "a A-rab" or a Muslim. Only those who are losers in the world really care.
At least now we have video evidence of why Fred is so bitter.
This may be the white equivalent of that leprechaun video from Alabama a few years back.
By "ignorance" I mean these people likely live in a relatively closed-off world with little exposure to blacks or immigrants. West Virginia is 95% white and has the lowest percentages of people born outside the US. Kentucky is 90% white with fairly low populations of foreign-born individuals. In some of the larger cities of Appalachia this is a bit different, but these don't seem like city people.
However in many states it's certainly possible to be a highly educated person who has lived a somewhat closed-off life with little exposure to other races or cultures. This can certainly happen in "blue states" like Vermont or Maine. As well as in highly red states like the Dakotas or Montana. I grew up in a town with no black population and the one black friend I had, although I admit we weren't that close, was a girl I know largely because of my condition. (She had Osteogenesis Imperfecta, like me, so my Mom gave advice to her family. Her visits were generally noted throughout town) I've tried to get beyond this closed-off world as much as I can, but some people don't try or don't care.
Inbreeding at it's best.
Just because that's my mother and my sister, doesn't mean she's also my wife.
We're not perverts
These are the most embarrassing, disgusting and repulsive human beings to ever have existed on this planet. The worst part is that they'll never know how pathetic they are.
Part of being stupid is that stupid people don't know that they're stupid; they'll always be oblivious to their stupidity. It's like trying to explain color to someone who was born blind.
People like these pitiful cows don't deserve to breathe the same air as the rest of us. These people deserve to eat dirt like the pigs that they are.