There's an interesting parallel between Michele Bachmann's nutty American nationalism, and the essentialism of the old "Keepin it Real" hip-hop heads. But it's Friday, and my baby is bringing me home some Macallan's--the 12-year, fools. (What can I say? It's been a good week.) I'll simply add that Bachmann makes me proud to be an American--proud and extremely thankful. Here's the thing, in other countries, many of which are dear to my heart, people like Bachmann don't simply go on television and rant, they have very large guns and friends with very large guys. The same hateful jingoism you see running through the following screed, is the exact same jingoism that leads to massacres in other parts of the globe.
Fortunately we live in a nation of laws and relative sanity, which allows Bachmann to rant her heart out and me to laugh at her while I prepare dinner. Yes I know, don't laugh to hard, son. We have our own history and we have to stay on guard. But still we've gotten better.
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Copyright © 2009 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
My favorite part is her passionate concern about "Saul A-line-sky", whom she had clearly never heard of before they sent her the talking points today.
Yeah, I think the "Keepin It Real" essentialism, while misguided in spots (Wayne is actually pretty good, harmless dance songs like Crank That Soulja Boy are not killing hip-hop, but rather are a continuation of a subgenre that goes all the way back to hip-hop's origins), is way more defensible than this crap. There just really hasn't been anything nearly as good as The Infamous or what have you in this century. Stone cold fact. Okayplayer essentialism, on the other hand, may be even worse than Palinism. Folks who think Lupe's the savior scare me just as much as the people at Palin's rallies.
When we start the revolution all they probably do is squeal
The ignorant nationalism that leads to fascism. Katrina vanden Heuvel called it immediately.
This is the stuff you don't dismiss, you have to defeat it. Donate to her opponent here: http://www.tinklenberg08.com/
While I usually think that Repiglicans yammering like this are just cynical, evil assholes, I sincerely believe that Bachmann is mentally ill. And I pity her somewhat. But not very much. I think she's the sort of nutjob who was attracted to wingnut politics all along, and her worsening mental illness just led her to this degree of craziness.
You could medicate her down to plain old evil asshole again, I suppose. But she'd fight it. She's happy in ga-ga land.
What a great idea: A penetrating expose on whether the people in Congress are pro-American or anti-American.
McCarthyism anyone?
And now that I've watched the video, why do these crazy people think an anti-American would want to be our President? If you really hate a nation, why would you want to run it? To run it into the ground? What are they even trying to imply?
"why do these crazy people think"
I'm gonna have to stop you there. They don't. Their arguments don't make sense, and they don't have to. It's a blinding "my team is perfect, your team wants to kill puppies" rationale.
And before Asher responds, yes, the left has its counterparts. Can't think of any in Congress or on pundit shows though.
21st century McCarthyism . . .
Stupid then. Stupid now.
Can we at least agree that McCain is the new McCarthy? I smell a meme.
what bothers me about Bachmann is that there are enough like minded people to elect her to office.
Thanks for posting on this. By the way people should know that Bachmann is up for reelection. If she can go on TV and say those things and still get reelected what does that say about our country? No matter if Obama wins on Nov 4th don't let it fool you. There is still much to be done!
"Can't think of any in Congress or on pundit shows though."
Pelosi herself isn't a terribly thoughtful person. Alcee Hastings, Democratic member of Congress from Florida, impeached 20 years ago from his judgeship for bribery and perjury by a vote in the House (where he now serves) of 413-3, recently said that "anybody toting guns and stripping moose don't care too much about what they do with Jews and blacks." Sure, moose-hunters and gun-toters might be a little more bigoted as a group, but I don't think you can jump to conclusions about a specific moose-hunter like that, just on the basis of their moose hunting.
I say we give the anti-Americans a shot at running things. They've waited their turn, & they can't screw up worse than the country-firsters.
Doesn't she look like Katherine Harris?
God I hate this stuff, veiled racism and classic jingoism, what is next fascism? Now we are heading into a depression where last depression there was a rising of fascism. The last thing we need is this anti american rantings, let us stoke some more hatred towards those we disagree with. How is this helping?
My personal opinion is this screed by Michele Bachman is anti american. Is she up for election by the way, can i contribute to her competition?
Last week Coates posted the video of the guy with the stuffed monkey with an Obama sticker around the head. At the time there was a lively debate on that thread about whether the people around the guy agreed with him and if they didn't why didnt they say anything. Well evidently there was a lot more footage from that rally and it turns out they DID agree with the guy. Just when you thought things were changing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPg0VCg4AEQ
I think she meant to say Obama is anti-dumbass-American. She would obviously be pro-dumbass American.
Why in the hell would someone who is not "pro America" (what does that even mean?)run for Congress? Or for President?
She's not cynical; she really believes that stuff.
On the good news side -- Rachel Maddow just announced that her opponent has picked up $30,000 in campaign contributions in the four hours since she was on Hardball. Join the fun at Elwyn Tinklenberg for Congress. http://www.tinklenberg08.com/bio.html
Make the stupid stop!!!!!! Sweet merciful Jesus, how do these mouthbreathers get elected?
I wish Chris had asked her if Todd Palin was anti-American.
Matthews is really pretty good here at the end where he asks this crazy woman if she suspects there are other anti-Americans in Congress. She steps right into the cow pie and leaves no doubt that she's a much worse than average GOP hack.
Well, Congress is like any other large population. Everyone falls on a normal curve, and there are extreme people at both ends of the distribution. Michelle is obviously at the extreme end with the crooks, liars, and sociopaths.
Yeah Matthews is getting smarter, you don´t argue with crazy people. She is like those people you know, she doesn´t have a clue how morally bankrupt her party is. Shes the kind that is trying too hard to get noticed and do well...like that old crazy lady at the town hall. She knows they wanted her to say something exciting, she´s just to stupid and crazy to be able to pull it off.
I think a couple of times she figured out that he was just f´ing with her and stringing her out to make herself look like the fool.
I think the real star of this interview is really Chris Matthews, who for once, resisted the urge to be loud and prove he was smarter and just kept feeding her the rope with which she happily hung herself. At times you could see her hesitate sensing that maybe he was trying to trap her, but lacking the actual wit to think on her feet and adjust, she just kept talking.
I think had Matthews gotten all loud and frothy on her she might have gotten wary and thrown up some "gotcha media" talking point, but his good cop routine, showing some restraint, actually yielded the Full Frontal McCarthyism that's been just barely beneath the surface of the Official McCain Campaign Talking Points.
The best (worst?) part of this is her apparent ignorance of the fact that she is very loudly echoing McCarthy. Is she just uneducated? Or stupid?
Macallan's,I had to look it up. Now I wish I hadn't, seems I need to expand beyond my beloved E&J VSOP...so...very...thirsty...
One of the ways that we as a country have managed to weather this brand of crazy is to do what Matthews is doing here - just letting her talk herself into a corner and then letting the public take a look at just what kind of nuttiness it is that she and hers are peddling. I also think he's wise to keep guests like this coming onto his show as it'll be good practice for his (supposed) Senate run here in Pennsylvania as the kooks from the "T" are cut from the same cloth as ol' "crazy eyes" Bachmann.
As others have said, the best part is how Matthews just doles out the rope, foot by foot. And she keeps grabbing it.
I have to disagree about the complacency in your initial post about breadth of opinion in the U.S., that somehow you're safe because of a culture of openness. Lurking in the blogosphere these last eight years, I believe there's far less tolerance in your country for opinions that are not in sync with yours that in my country and others I've been to and continue to read up on. Your political spectrum is narrower than anywhere else I know; for instance, in Canada or the UK, Obama would be a centrist Conservative, not a wild-eyed Socialist. In fact he'd make a fine Liberal Prime Minister.
Is there anybody currently elected to Congress less intelligent then her? Seriously. Who is the flat out stupidest elected member of the House of Representitives?(you know they are in the House too) I'm nominating her unless somebody can top that. By the way if you see Ross Douthat around wish him luck rebuilding a functioning political party around a foundation like that. See if his upper lip tenses up or if he starts rubbing his temples.
Tom C - I think Mean Jean Schmidt in Ohio is probably just about as dumb as Bachmann. They certainly are way up there on the stupidity meter.
just using the first sentence as a jumping off point, TNC, so i didn't watch the video, though i gather she's a complete idiot. but the americanness part, makes me ask, did you see this nyrb article. i'd be interested in your take on it. i liked it, though there are parts, on both sides of his comparison that i'd quibble with: baldwin wasn't wrong in 1965; nor is obama automatically less for choosing politics.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/21930
I agree with TNC that there is a large degree of humor in watching this woman shame herself on national television. But it bothers me that some people may buy into her bullshit. Saying that Ayers was a mentor to Obama is a lie, plain and simple. When she said "the American people are very concerned about (his "ties" to Ayers)" I wish Matthews came back and said "well how come he's so far ahead in the polls then?"
My final thought on this matter is with regard to her whole "anti-American" shtick. For far too many people, ANY criticism of the U.S. makes you anti-American. This is utter rubbish but it's an easy tactic to use on an opponent in a campaign.
The truth is, it's not our right to question or criticize our government, it's our DUTY! Failure to do so leaves our government with no accountability (a bit like deregulation on Wall St.).
I am an immigrant from Ireland and have lived here for 15 years (all that time I've been in Oklahoma, talk about being blue in a red state!), and I'm still amazed at the number of people I encounter that equate criticism of the U.S.A. with being unpatriotic. As I said above, the truth is the EXACT opposite. A TRUE patriot WILL criticize his or her government, not for the sake of criticizing but in order to make things better.
Obama-Biden 2008 - anything less and we'll be going even further backwards!
No, why I really, really love America is that her opponent in the MN race has raised 75k in the 6 hours since her appearance on Tweety's show.
It's really too bad that her opponent's name is Elwyn Tinklenberg. That's a lot to overcome.
"Is there anybody currently elected to Congress less intelligent then her?"
Like I said, Al-C Hastings, and Bob Casey Jr. is remarkably dim.
"Wrapped in the flag, and bearing the cross."
And Heath Shuler is really fucking dim, but he's mostly harmless, because he's too inarticulate to do interviews. Larry King loves him some crazy Michele, and crazy Michele loves her some cameras.
When it comes down to it, there are a lot of congressional districts with a lot of dumbasses, and so you get a lot of dumbasses in Congress. (Example: Lynn Westmoreland, the cracker asshole from Georgia who will be re-elected because all the cracker assholes vote for him.)
(Macallan 12 is a sweet dram, T-NC. Complex but never too pushy. The 18 is velvet caramel, but you'd need to remortgage to buy it these days. With a splash of water to open it, though. And ice is heresy. Oddbins in the UK sold it on the hush for a while under its own label, at a complete steal. But single malt is painfully expensive in the US right now.)
1. the netroots, since this aired, has raised 89,000 for her opponent.
2. Obama picked up some endorsements today:
- The Chicago Tribune: the first Democrat EVER for them, in their history. Period. (147 years)
- The L.A. Times: first Presidential Endorsement since 1972
-The Salt Lake Tribune: UTAH, for pete's sake.
The lack of self-awareness here is pretty amazing. How is it appropriate to assert that "they"(millions of republicans) are racists based upon the activities of a handful of people, and yet it is beyond the pale to speculate whether an individual who has a documented history of having personal relationships with people who are undisputably anti-american?
This is not a defense of bachmann. Her argument is silly on the merits and most probably cynical in motive(although I dont discount the possiblity that she actually is that stupid). It is merely a note that a whole lot of you need to check yourselves
an individual who has a documented history of having personal relationships with people who are undisputably anti-american?
You mean like all the Confederate Flag humpers in the GOP?
Josh said:
You mean like all the Confederate Flag humpers in the GOP?
Or Sarah Palin?
Oh honey, don't be deluded. In your country, crazy nuts go on TV to rant and there are massacres. At the very least, the same nuts enable the massacres in part by stirring up the hateful jingoism in bigoted sociopaths . As horrible as it is, if it comes down to it, I'd rather have massacres without the added psychobitches on the airwaves. TV is generally measured enough to tide over the times, of massacres or otherwise, on the other side of the Atlantic (and Pacific).
iron pimp hand.
The lack of self-awareness here is pretty amazing. How is it appropriate to assert that "they"(millions of republicans) are racists based upon the activities of a handful of people, and yet it is beyond the pale to speculate whether an individual who has a documented history of having personal relationships with people who are undisputably anti-american?
Here is the central question. What makes someone anti American??? Better yet who gets to make that determination??? One of the reason's that this country is the greatest country on earth is because we have free speech but Rethugs would rather that we didnt when there is dissent. Just because someone is against actions of the government does not make someone anti American. People who feel that they can judge someone as anti American simply because that person speaks out against specific American actions need to check themselves. Who gives YOU the right to make that distinction??? Where in the constitution or in the Bill of Rights does it say that speaking against the government's actions are anti American? If you want to follow that logic then every militia man is anti American. Every person who spoke against Bill Clinton was anti American. Where does it begin and end in your world? Or is it just Democrats who are anti American for wanting to better our country. Oh I got it now...
For the dimwits who only saw the abbreviated youtube comments of Rev Wright I invite you to watch the extended version. Rev Wright is an example of someone who has criticized America for some of its decisions. But he is ALSO a former marine who was willing to fight and potentially die for this country. Have you ever signed up for armed services Iron Pimp Hand? If your parent criticizes you and tells you that you are doing wrong and are headed on the wrong path, if they tell you that you deserve some of the grief you recieve in your life becaue of decisions you have made.....does that mean they are against you? For everything you want to say about Rev. Wright understand that his church helped hundreds if not thousands of struggling people. If he hated America why would he be tryinng to help her people?
I will even go so far as to say that Bill Ayers shouldnt be classified as "anti american". Bill Ayers was anti Vietnam war and all of his actions were aimed at getting the government to stop the war in Vietnam. But he is still here in America trying to help our educational system. He himself repudiated the attacks on our country on 9-11 even though no one EVER talks about that. Bill Ayers had and has the wealth and means to live other places in the world. Yet he not only still lives here, he also gives of his time to help with the education of children in Chicago.
So again I ask you, what defines someone as anti American? Can I call John McCain anti American because of the many times he voted against raising the minimum wage? Can I call John McCain anti American for making propaganda tapes for the Viet Cong under duress? Can I call John McCain anti American for refusing to vote for a bill that allowed for harsher penalties for a person who bombs an abortion clinic? Can I call John McCain anti American for saying that its the governments fault that people are losing their pensions and life savings? Can I call John McCain anti American for criticizing Ronald Reagan for his military directions on Lebanon? Can I call John McCain for opposing Clinton's military actions in Bosnia?
Now if you can give me a coherent explanation of how any of Barack Obama's associates are anti-American I would love to hear you out. But please don't use tht "he said" bullsht.
For your viewing pleasure here are the extended clips of Rev Wright that Fixed News refuses to show. If you are confident enough of your view of him being anti American it shouldn't be to hard to get up the courage to watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw
Is there anyway we can make these people take an IQ test before they run? I've seen surveys that politicians will take expressing theier views on whatever issue. I want to see if they know basic math and verbal skills as well. I wouldn't disqualify anyone but people deserve to know. You might end up with a government that, you know, works if you had representitives that could pass remedial civics or social studies classes. I wasn't at really bothered by that clip until I saw that she actually had been elected to a higher office than dog catcher. I have heard any number of people give of that kind of crazy/stupid before but you don't actually give them power for crying out loud.
And one last thing: Elwyn Tinklenberg. Thats the name of the guy running against her. Oh, Christ.
tom c,
I guess people don't care about names at this point. Tinklenberg raised over 80k last night just in the time AFTER the Bachmann was on Hardball. I hope that kind of giving continues as people become more aware.
here is a letter he sent out.
A message from Elwyn Tinklenberg:
The last few hours have been nothing short of astounding. Since Congresswoman Michele Bachmann appeared on MSNBC’s Hardball earlier tonight, there’s been a deluge of support unlike anything we have seen. We are so grateful to the Daily Kos community and others who’ve sounded the alarm on Bachmann’s extremist, shameful rhetoric and pitched in with whatever they can to help end her tenure in Congress. Our phones haven’t stopped ringing. Many have called in to say they’re sorry they can only send money and wish they could be here to help. We want you to know what a difference your funds are making and that, thanks in part to your help, we are confident that we will be able to win this race. We are preparing to get out the vote on an unprecedented scale, and with supporters like you we will have the resources we need to get the job done.
I am both hopeful and humbled at the reminder you gave me tonight – that in our country’s darkest times, it is the strength and belief and action of ordinary Americans that ultimately brings about the change we need. From the hardworking folks in Minnesota’s Sixth District to all of you: we are proud to have you on our side.
Thank you,
El Tinklenberg
http://www.tinklenberg08.com
I hate to be sending out so many messages back to back but there is also an online petition to have Bachmann censured. Here is the link
http://www.censurebachmann.com/
Are you kidding? Elwyn Tinklenberg is a fantastic, maybe the best, name for a congressperson (that's a challenge for somebody to find something better, currently in congress or a serious challenger).
Also, as a Minnesotan, albeit one currently in Manhattan, it embarrasses me to know end to hear the "congresswoman from Minnesota" at the end of the interview. It helps to remember that my home district elected the first Muslim to Congress. I bet Michelle damn near had a stroke when that happened.
ajb beat me to it: Elwyn Tinklenberg is like one of the best political names ever. Someone get Dave Barry on this--we could get more fundraising for next week.
El Tinklenberg
Bachmann's opponent is a Mexican wrestler? No wonder she's so worried about un-American infiltrators in Congress.
Contributions to Tinklenberg since the Bachmann spot now up to $120,000:
http://minnesotaindependent.com/13662/october-surprise-bachmann-raises-nearly-120k-for-tinklenberg
Ah... Ta-Nahesi: the mercurial Prophet. Sometimes he's listing how he will bemoan on November 5th in case of an Obama loss... sometimes he's optimistically singing the praises of American progress. Where does he stand? Don't ask; jumping around from perspective to perspective is part of his charm.
How much of that Mac-12 did he drink?
What would you prefer, Deep*3000? That TNC never had moods, that he just spouted the same old party-line talking points day in and day out (like, oh, someone like Bachmann)?
Listening to Bachman made me think of the Mr Deeds movie with Gary Cooper, and the two sisters that thought everyone was "pixilated" - except for them, of course.
Contributions to Tinklenberg since the Bachmann spot now up to $170,000
It doesn't seem to be slowing down. Fantastic!
Jen R: not talking points... but consistency? What's your counter-argument: Contradictions are great, and part of of authentic blogging.
But where does a guy stand? All over the map?
I'm with the folks who think she is mentally ill. You can usually see the cynicism on display with republican officials- it's clear that they don't actually believe the things that come out of their mouths.
This woman really believes this stuff. In the face of history, int he face of facts to the contrary, in the face of...reality, she believes.
Completely off her rocker.
"I hate to be sending out so many messages back to back but there is also an online petition to have Bachmann censured."
This stuff is ridiculous, but doesn't deserve censure. She basically said that Obama might hold anti-American views. Might. Very stupid and crass, but hardly worthy of censure.
For more reasons to give money to the Tinklenberg, go to Obsidian Wings:
http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/10/anti-american/comments/page/2/#comments
No, really, she is craaaaaaaaayzeeeeee.
"Who is the real Obama?" - That's why people are justified in accusing the Republicans of using racially and nationalistically toxic tactics. And the two are inextricably linked, so don't be a fool and say that we're sitting around with thumbs up our asses saying "thur racist!" When we see McCain *campaign officials* in a number of different places proudly spouting off such ignorant bullshit, we have reason to complain. Who among the Obama campaign has said anti-American things? Is the best you can do Michelle Obama's statement about being proud of America? Perhaps you'd have more luck grasping for straws.
Anyway, iron pimp hand, I suggest you find a text book for a freshman-level logic class and find the chapter on fallacies. False analogy is the specific term you're looking for.
Everyone should go to Wonkette for a compendium of Bachman crazy.
Oh honey, don't be deluded. In your country, crazy nuts go on TV to rant and there are massacres. At the very least, the same nuts enable the massacres in part by stirring up the hateful jingoism in bigoted sociopaths ... TV is generally measured enough to tide over the times, of massacres or otherwise, on the other side of the Atlantic (and Pacific).
Posted by Lorraine G
Lorraine, who's deluded here? You don't seem to have a very good grasp of the last ten years of global politics if you can write something like this. Stop patting your self on your Canadian or European back and turn on your own tv for once. At least Americans are trying to work through their problems in this election. What about you?
Tinklenberg is at $210,238
Tinklenberg is at $210,238
Plus, there is an additional ActBlue Tinklenberg fund that is over 90k now. 300k in one day, basically. That is pretty damn cool. Plus, he should be able to generate enough news from the fundraising, if he wants to, that it will keep her meltdown on the air for a little while longer.
So, who's the next-worst Rep in a close race? And how do we turn attention in that direction?
Fortunately we live in a nation of laws and relative sanity, which allows Bachmann to rant her heart out and me to laugh at her while I prepare dinner. Yes I know, don't laugh to hard, son. We have our own history and we have to stay on guard. But still we've gotten better.
Bravo. Live, mock and let live. Perfectly correct approach when confronted with the absurd.
And the morning update, last time I checked, was 450 grand. Powell mentioned Michelle's comments while endorsing Obama too. Which is good. She's got a real shitstorm on her hands now, and the schadenfreude is making this a good day.
I don't think she's unusual. Most voters probably are more aware of who the president is than the mayor of their town or city. Locally, a lot of people running for office are a mystery to me. I'm still trying to find out who they are and what they've done.
Perhaps she won based on her looks. I wouldn't be surprised if she wins re-election.
...Men like crazy women.
"What a great idea: A penetrating expose on whether the people in Congress are pro-American or anti-American.
McCarthyism anyone?"
Yeah, Bachmann was asleep or giggling in the back swapping lipstick with her galpals when the McCarthy section was being taught. Some on the far-fascist right call McCarthy a hero. Sickening.
Maybe they'd like a trip back to the 50's.