TNC,
can you stop with this "sheeeeeeeeeeeeet".
I just spent ten minutes googling various names you used and I still feel more lost than Barry O'Bama at an Alaskan moose hunt.
Please, remember white folks read this blog. Have pity on us. Include a dictionary with citations. A "blictionary" so to speak.
Now, my black people, I know what you're thinking. We live in their world and no one gives us a whitionary. No one explains to us why Gatsby couldn't kick Daisy to the curb, why cucumber sandwiches taste good, or why keg parties are fun. White folk just look at you like, Figure it out nigger. To be a black professional is to a be a five-year old kid, straight out El Salvador, dropped into a class where no one speaks Spanish. Except that five-year olds are quicker than us.
So I understand the impulse to tell Irish Pirate to step off. But given that he gave us a pretty humorous rebuttal to "Once you go black, you never go back," we shall indulge him. For the uninitiated go here and here. They are your friends. In fact, I'm gonna put em on my blog roll.
True Story. A few years back I did a piece on Erylah Badu for a magazine. They actually published a glossary. Like "White Folks Who've Never Had Overcooked Collard Greens, See Here."
UPDATE: Or you could just rock Big L...
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
I don't know how in the world you can joke around in a time like this! Have you seen the polls?! This race is so tight, I'm gonna fast all weekend for an Obama victory. No cucumber sandwiches for me!
Oh, now, TNC. You had me until you went negative on cucumber sandwiches.
I discovered cucumber sandwiches when I was 10 years old, and first read "The Importance of Being Earnest." They are being served--and extolled--in the opening scene, and I loved that play so much I wanted to eat like it.
Here's the thing about cucumber sandwiches: crunchy
cool
mayo.
The best thing, really, that ever happened to mayo, which I otherwise use, like, once a year.
"mayo."
There's your problem Karen.
OK, so no one with a different culture/lexicon shall ever have to explain anything about their culture to a curious outsider. Ever again.
Good to know.
Togetherness!
Back on this thread, I wondered why black people seem to often speak in pound cake metaphors or hypotheticals. (Or is it just TNC and Bill Cosby?) Fellow commenter Paul B suggested that it was a Lester Young thing. Any further thoughts on that?
"OK, so no one with a different culture/lexicon shall ever have to explain anything about their culture to a curious outsider. Ever again.
Good to know.
Togetherness!"
Did you not read what I wrote? Togetherness? This is all about promoting segregation. How could you have missed that?
"Now, my black people, I know what your thinking. We live in their world and no one gives us a whitionary..."
Also, is that the original, or the Premo remix? (And who would've thought the producer who made the original, AND Ether, would now be doing Indian snake charmered out T-Pain*?) My Mozilla has issues with Youtube.
* See 'Pop Champagne' and 'Arab Money.'
Big L! Oh ya killin em TNC! Rest In Peace Big L, he was taken too soon.
This cucumber sandwich thing has to be a regional thing for white folks because I've never friggin heard of it and I came from a town so lily-white, the only thing of color we had was dirty snow which had yet to melt.
My white-cred is off the charts too. Consider:
- I've gone cow-tipping
- I think the electric guitar is one of the
greatest inventions ever
- I used to love keg parties - at least the parts I
can remember
BS_PI,
do you take beer pong very seriously?
Bill Simmons has a glossary. Andrew Sullivan has a glossary. There's worse company out there.
Steve Sailer? No glossary.
And I sure as hell have never eaten a cucumber sandwich.
IrishPirate,
I suggest that you find a teen-aged American, of any background, to do the first round of translation. My kids are having a great time throwing me lifelines as I read.
They're also convincing me that I'm the one way out of the mainstream on this.
Especially, they're pleased that I got at least half of the joke when the college kid from down the street changed his Facebook status to "I've got ninety-five theses and the pope ain't one."
For those of you who don't know Big L (and it sounds like there are some of you out there) please youtube "holdin' it down" and enjoy one of the craziest beats ever.
"Did you not read what I wrote? Togetherness? This is all about promoting segregation. How could you have missed that?"
All I see there when I read is you dismissing someone for being curious about a culture different than his own.
Did this guy ever personally tell you to "figure it out" when he wrote something?
The way people figure out how to get along with other cultures is, you know, talking to them. Asking questions.
@sv
Nah, I was more of a "Quarters" and "Asshole" guy myself. Too uncoordinated for beer pong.
Cucumber sandwiches are more British than "white." And you make em with butter, not mayo.
Spackle,
You must be new here. Its a JOKE. Lighten up.
Hugs and Kisses,
Stacy
Spackle, I'm trying to help you--go to Youtube and listen to MOP "Ante Up", maybe that will help.
@zak
British, eh? That would explain such a nasty creation...
My grandmother was English and all I can say is, "what the hell is wrong with us when it comes to food?!!!!"
Spackle,
I suggest that you might be taking him too seriously. On this blog it seems to be at least thirty percent shits-and-giggles. No offense TNC, that's what I like about it here. Correct me if I'm wrong...
oh people have already beaten me to the punch. oh well i add my voice to the chorus.
AlexG, good suggestion. that was cool as hell
-sv
So, like, you can tell me.
If African-Americans from *THIS* part of the country end up in a conversation with African-Americans from *THAT* part of the country, all y'all drop a good 30% of your regionalisms pretty quick, right?
I mean, that's what *WE* do. All y'all do that too, right?
jeezus, Spackle, grow a sense of humor.
/had to Google, too
//Don't mind.
Also, the only reason black people wouldn't love keg parties would be due to what was actually coming out of the keg. Who doesn't love community drinking?
That being said, I'm off to happy hour. By myself.
One.
You really should perma-link to that Big L track and tag it as your glossary. It covers quite a lot and is, like, at least seven times more entertaining than your average glossary.
Though there are some pretty kick-ass glossaries out there.
Or not.
Man, Ta, this was worth delurking for. Best thing I've read all week. (One thing, though; not even us pastey white fold read Gatsby anymore.) Just one question - is it okay if I start droppin' "Figure it out nigger" on my homies?
Wait a second, is an explanation to why keg parties are fun really needed? Now if you had said Frat Keg Party I could understand the confusion...
P.S. I had a keg at a party last New Year's Eve and all my black friends enjoyed the party, and the beer.
Part of the reason TNC is moving fast up my list of must-read blogs is that I DON'T need a glossary to read him. But what do I know? I'm just a white person from Whiteville.
"Man, Ta, this was worth delurking for. Best thing I've read all week. (One thing, though; not even us pastey white fold read Gatsby anymore.) Just one question - is it okay if I start droppin' "Figure it out nigger" on my homies?"
Sir, that depends on your homies. I call my baby "baby" because she likes it. If she didn't I'd likely stop.
I'm afraid TNC is going to descend into Chappelle territory and quit on all of us if us whities start throwing around the 'N word' too casually.
Have a good weekend people. Peace.
Spackle, you know you want some collard greens.
R.I.P. Big L. He will always truly be one of the greats of hip hop.
On that note, R.I.P. hip hop too.
p.s. cucumber sandwiches? you really did grow up in west bmore
At a Festival called "New Orleans by the th Bay" some lady was giving a country line dancing class/seminar thing at one of the stages between music sets. As I slid by I noticed an older black couple oddly watching so I muttered to them as I walked by "Dancing for the rythmically impaired." The lady broke out laughing and said "Thank God you said it, I just thought it was a white thing!"
So as I read the post I just thought it was a black thing, not culturally required to understand, and oddly interesting to observe.
My Grandma Violet (may she rest in peace) offered a general theory of ethnic food.
She says it's "poverty food," what a group had to eat in the hard times, found ways to tolerate, and ended up associating with family and home. Thus, pickled chickens' feet are offered as part of dim sum, and grits are still served at Bob Evans, and cucumber sandwiches count as part of a tea party. Ever tried head cheese?
Grandma also said that no one needs a translation to understand steak or strawberries, because those are just objectively good.
I'd say it's more a case of humourously dismissing someone who he obviously likes. And if someone were to comment on my blog asking me for a Canucktionary because they didn't know what a toque was, I'd hope I could respond with TNC's good grace. Just roll with it, my white American cousins. Rolling with it is the entire point.
Yours, a whitebread Canadian.
@Argon
No, no it really isn't.
Ta-nahesi,
Could we have a hip hop open thread some time? I'd love to know what i should be listening to, old and new.
I only stumbled on elzhi by accident, and it hurts to think that there might be more out there that I'm missing.
"My grandmother was English and all I can say is, "what the hell is wrong with us when it comes to food?!!!!" "
John Clease of Monty Python fame was on the Daily Show years ago when he got asked that question. His response?
"My dear boy.....we had an empire to run, we didn't have the time". (To come up with good food I guess.)
In other news, I've had both cucumber sandwiches and collard greens. I much prefer collard greens. I was actually a bit upset that they were so good, I'm like, where the hell have these been my entire life?
Wikipedia and google are great, but no love for Urban Dictionary? That's the one-stop-shop for Phrases You Don't Get Yet. (Frankly I'm surprised it doesn't have its own 'Stuff White People Like' entry.)
If u haven't figured it out from my previous posts....i'm a swedish-iranian living in stockholm, trapped in a pop-cultural timewarp that has yet to bridge me to the "real" world....i've been listening to hiphop and "black" music since i can remember. I get most of the post's, not the things from early 80's though for obvious reasons. I kind of understand your approach Ta...cander with a bit of sarcasm and a lot of love...
but for your consideration...
"son they shook...there's no such thing as half-way crooks..."
Sporcupine,
Grandma's theory may apply for the other examples, but cucumber sandwiches are definitely not poverty food. One eats cucumber sandwiches with one's tea not because one can't afford something more substantial (see "meat tea") but because it suits one's refined palate.
@Ben....
ehlzi is a great start...from there u can go directly via Little Brother....a great producer named 9th Wonder to an crazy emcee like Buckshot and his group black moon...to boot camp clikk...heltah skeltah, Smiff n Wessun (aka Cocoa brovas), now i've taken youf from modern soulful hiphop with a love-connection (9th wonder) of the millenium to the dirty rugged streets of brooklyn (Boot camp, SnW, Heltah Skeltah) and the mid 90's, from there u can basically go anywhere...it can take u anywhere, it all depends on what dimension u like about hiphop, is it rhymin', is it producers (for Dj's, aspiring producers), is it gangsta rap, or do you want to stick to soulful rap about everyday issues (de la soul, blackalicious, mos def, talib kweli, common) or do you consider yourself an afficionado, only classics (nas, early jay-z, biggie, Big L, Pun), or do you swim with the mainstream? Maybe southern style rap, maybe even something from the west-coast? i was there on a vacation last year, and got turned on to a Bay Area rapper....just because of the dude in the store was promotin' him so much, i bought the record on Itunes (hiphop has really gone mainstream, when u can find indierappers on Itunes) and i can say i really like it.
Gatsby couldn't kick Daisy to the curb because there wouldn't have been much of a story if he did. (OK, it was also a class thing. But it would really have poked a hole in the story if he'd dropped Daisy as quickly as he should have.)
Cucumber sandwiches are tasty in small doses because cucumbers taste good. But only in small doses because white bread isn't all that great, and mayo doesn't really improve it. Bagels really easily beat cucumber sandwiches, as does pita bread and falafel.
Keg parties actually aren't any fun, in my book.
Don't ask me to explain cow tipping - wrong part of the country for that.
Oh Stacy, so sorry! I'll be with you in spirit.
I dunno TNC, I understand what the hell you're saying and I'm pretty white and pretty old (early Gen X). Maybe I just have listened to too much Ghostface or something....
Thanks TNC and AlexG for the Big L tips. Had no idea the dude was so tight.
On GG: sure, the particular way Gatsby burns his torch for Daisy is pretty upper-class white. But the idea of a man loving a woman past the point he ought to -- that cuts across all classes and cultures, does it not? I mean, Gabriel Garcia Marquez' "Love in the Time of Cholera" is the same basic story, except different people die.
We do need a top 5 or top 10 hip hop songs thread.
@Patagonia
do you want a civil-war to break out??
Zak says: "Cucumber sandwiches are more British than "white.""
I'm Irish. The British are MY "white," if you know what I mean.
@bruce. I'm white, but I got a list that will impress.
Besides, nothing starts a good conversation like a music top 5 list.
thanks for the good info. i'm familiar with most of what you've mentioned. i love the native tongues stuff. i like new york golden era hip hop too. i like out-there independent hip hop like del. i don't think i've given the boot camp clik a fair shot, so i'll do that. ty for the list. im sure alot of folks will find it very helpful.
idk how i almost missed out on the elzhi record. i could never get into slum village that much after dilla (r.i.p), so i kinda wasn't checking for him.
what are you listenin too thats newish thats good?
recently i've been listening to invincible and the new cunninlynguists
or old stuff works too. let's do this:
if i had to listen to one Boot camp record, which one should i go for? or do you know jeru's albums well? i've just listened to a song or tw here and there and never been able to get into it. what should i listen to? maybe i'm just listening to the wrong stuff of his?
thx again.
@Patagonia
your whiteness is kind of irrelevant, we're talkin 'bout hiphop-credentials...the only musicform that has the diversity and has trancended race! We've got a palestinian producer, jewish producers, white rappers (good ones too), latins that are legends, persians on the way...every shape and form, from all over the world. I'm actually swedish-iranian, but in hiphop, that's irrelevant...
i'll give in for once...hit me dun!
Man I'm just having a wee bit o fun and look what I started and TNC, or T-Bone as I prefer, runs away with it.
Now for those of you who are uninitiated I will introduce you to the whites piece of video ever:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uLeYBYn_oE
I meant "whitest" piece of video.
Between eating Halloween candy before the shorties start showing up in 45 minutes and thinking about Sarah Palin naked with a gun I can't even type correctly.
Noticed I said "shorties". See I have lotsa street cred for somebody paler than Wonder Bread.
"I'm Irish. The British are MY "white," if you know what I mean."
I do. My first-generation Irish-American father really knew. And my grandfather’s brother, my great-uncle Mike, was I.R.A., so he really, really knew.
I forget which African-American entertainer said that he was shocked to learn that there were actually different groups of white people that hated each other.
@IrishPirate
true. i can confirm that white people like strange costumes, bag pipes and standing around awkwardly.
@bruce & patagonia
get it started
I'd spell it, 'whittionary'.
I'd jujst like to chime in here to represent white people who absolutely, positively hate mayonnaise.
Alex G "Spackle, I'm trying to help you--go to Youtube and listen to MOP "Ante Up", maybe that will help."
Now I just watched that and have to say:
THAT's the original ante-up? My whole life I've been listening to a Funkmaster Flex remix of it thinking it was the original. I had no idea i'd never heard the original.
Both equally awesome tho.
blictionary"
LOL
Cow-tipping - I must ask....what is the joy in that?
I'm not an animal rights activist by any means, but doesn't it hurt the cow?
BTW, Coates, I love those kinds of posts, because it's like going back to childhood. I usually go, ' Yeah, I did that too.' or ' Damn, I forgot all about that'.
TNC - if you want an extremely white experience, I would recommend going for tea at one of the several Alice's Tea Cup locations in NYC. In addition to the tea, you can get your cucumber sandwich fix. Place is completely packed on weekends, though.
If you do make the trip, you definitely have to report back to us, though.
The secret to scrumptious cucumber sandwiches is to throw some minced chives and maybe a hint of garlic in the butter.
I'm not sure which side of the segregation line affinity for Italianate herbs puts me on, but I'll take my mud people sammiches over the wan British version any day.
Cucumber sandwiches with mayo? Yeah, that would be kinda gross. But good bread, plus good butter, plus a little salt, plus some sliced cucumber, is really, really tasty.
You know what else is really good? Top-quality bread with olive oil and persillade. Won't do your breath any favors, but it tastes fantastic, and all the garlic and parsley is very good for you.
Three battle hardened British officers are sitting around debating what part of the British empire produces the best fighting men.
"The Zulus," offers the first. "The Zulus are the bravest fighting. A company of Zulus is worth a battalion of any other men.
"No, the Gurkhas are the best fighting men," offers the second. "They'll happily die to the last man. I'd take a platoon of Gurkhas over a company of Zulus."
The third takes a long drag on his pipe, and then begins, "The Zulu and the Gurkha are brave warriors both, of that there's no doubt. But if you want the most courageous, most dependable, hardest and hardiest fighters, if you want to win in battle, you can't beat the Irish – with white officers of course!"
"I forget which African-American entertainer said that he was shocked to learn that there were actually different groups of white people that hated each other."
I totally had this experience as a young teen (as did my mom, before my time, when she first worked with a man with a number tattoed on his arm. Experience is really...eye opening).
My Caribbean butt Googles plenty of stuff to keep up with this blog. It's plenty of fun and no shame.
I did almost go cow-tipping once. Or was that a snipe hunt? (Not my fault! I was an innocent in the hands of rural Massachusetts people who wanted to torment me for living too close to the Mets. :-D)
How can you say Ta-Nehisi isn't bringing people together. Only on this blog could you have people discussing MOP and cucumber sandwiches at the same time. One love.
I love ebonics, Big L.
Here are some Marine-phonics:
Sneakers are go-fasters
Underwear are skivvies
A gun is a shotgun (or artillery)
A pistol or a rifle's a piece
Dope is the adjustments on your rifle for different ranges and windage
Flashlights are moonbeams
The floor is the deck
The wall is the bulkhead
A water fountain's a scuttlebutt
Scuttlebutt also means the latest rumor
Gouge is the latest news
Your head is your grape
Brain+skull is the brain housing group (it's what your helmet protects)
Light-green and dark-green means white and black Marines
Down range means in a combat zone
the Grinder is the parade ground
Grunt is an infantryman
a Hat is a Drill Instructor
a Cover is what you wear on your grape
the Head is the restroom
a Bed is your rack
"Reveille" means wake up
Chow is food
Geedunk is junk food
Pogey bait is junk food
The mess is where you eat
Blanket party is inhouse discipline from one's piers
Mujaheddin is "muj"
All Arabs are "hajjis" (hajjis might or might not be muj)
Unass means get off of something
"gear adrift" means you left shit out in your room
Fuck applies as a modifier to all words, verbs, nouns, adverbs, etc.
"Killer" is a compliment
I could go on...
I read that scripts for The Wire came with a slang glossary attached for the actors.
Quickly translating Baltimore bits like: "I met her on a humble."
Actual British food is terrible, but at least when I hit London I can find a dozen other types of food that are AMAZING anywhere I go. I did Malaysian last time- mediocre meal, FANTASTIC dessert (green tapioca pearls served with cane sugar and coconut cream) and the time before that amazing Vietnamese food and the time before that as good a curry as anywhere in Queens.
In Paris you mainly find French food. It's good and all, but I'm kinda bored now (except for pastries- just discovered profiteroles- and croque monsieurs).
Go East my people, and observe the wide variety of white folks and how much they beef. Listening to a Brit talk about the Polish opened my eyes. Or, you know, go to Arizona and watch the hippies hate on the retirees who hate on the farmers who hate on everyone who wasn't born there.
I don't see how you can mention Elzhi without mentioning Black Milk. Those two are like peanut butter and jelly. Black Milk is the best producer out there right now. He's lacking a bit on the mic, but I can't think of a better producer/rapper.
I can see where cucumber sandwiches would be improved by garlic butter, or olive oil, or any kind of really good bread, but I'm pretty sure the couple of times I tried them they really did involve mayo and not especially good bread.
I actually clicked on the wikipedia link expecting, like, "Stuff Black People Like" or something. Owned.
Argon: You might want to go with "Figure it out, Negro" just to be on the safe side.
Your lexicon is 98% understandable and I'm an Asian-American Jewish 1st generation American who grew up with Black and Mexican people. Don't translate shit.
I hated Gatsby in high school cuz it just seemed triflin'. Maybe I missed something.
Since then every job I've had with lots of "American white people," I was totally clueless about many of their cultural references. They didn't gently welcome me in, they were sarcastic and derisive about the things I didn't know.
TNC,
I too wish you'd refrain from "sheeeeeeeeeeeeet".
Because as soon as I see that, I hear all your posts being read aloud by one Clay Davis, corrupt politician par excellence from "The Wire".
And sheeeeeeeeeeeeet, no one wants that.
yeah, i'm sure black professionals with elite educations are confused about elite and non-elite "white" culture.
does obama seem befuddled? michelle?
you are speaking about yourself. had you graduated from yale or swarthmore you wouldn't say this kind of nonsense.
@Ethan:
Yeah you're right. Apologies. Detroit just has too much good music coming out right now to mention it all, but I should've at least mentioned Black Milk. First heard his beats on Pharoahe Monch "desire" and said to myself "goddamn."
Ta, maybe you should publish under the name "Taylor Nathan Coates" so white people won't be afraid.
Also: I love mayo, but collards beat mayo.
@logicat:
thanks for the tip. I'll let you know how THAT works out.
I'll add my voice to those who think of cucumber sandwiches as being British cuisine, not "White" cuisine. (I've never even been exposed to cucumber sandwiches in person, only read about them in books.) As for keg parties, I don't like them because I don't drink, but isn't the reason other people like them pretty self-explanatory? And I've never read The Great Gatsby, so I can't address that.
If I may raise a practical question, as a white guy trying to google variations of "sheeeet", how many "e"'s am I supposed to use?
In defense of keg parties, I second Tessa. Frat boys have given them a bad name. So have people who cheap out on what kind of beer they buy and end up with a half barrel of Schlitz.
As a Black person who's been to multiple keg parties, to say they are not fun is to go too far, but at a keg party the focus is on the alcohol - the keg is just too powerful a draw. Where at nearly every party thrown by a black person that I've been to, the focus is on the dance floor. This is true of every party I've ever been to that I'd describe as "fun"
Given in the spirit of promoting understanding in TNC's comments section. Back to lurking.
Let me add, if the host or the person who invited me to a keg party asked if I had fun, I'd say yes. That's now how I'd describe the party to TNC though.
Mid 50s overeducated white guy here, one who likes collards and other greens just fine. My dad did too, especially served with dog bread that he learned to cook growing up in east Texas during very rough times indeed. His father, my grandfather, was for a decent number of years a sharecropper in east Texas, but he was very picky about his greens, he only liked the young tender leaves. He worked land owned by an African American family. The sibling of that family who looked after things had a day job as a Pullman porter, but he'd stop by my grandparent's place from time to time to see how things were going (which often was not well).
In the late 30s my father lit out for the territories and joined the CCC putting in rail track across the Southwest -- he knew that nothing there could be any harder than the work his father would put him to if the stayed home. My father and uncle say that during WW2 (they both served in the South Pacific) it was common for soldiers to engage in "my family was so poor that...." contests, and "my family was so poor that we sharecropped land that belonged to a black man" would trump most anything else.
It's a big old complicated world. I enjoy the blog, Ta, best of luck with whatever follows.
haven't had the time to check the whole thread but i believe what you're looking for is about 1:10 in on this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f81Tfw60tTs
No one explains to us why Gatsby couldn't kick Daisy to the curb
When Gatsby's father shows up for the funeral, he says, "My name is Gatz. James Gatz." Daisy was Gatsby's upper class WASP dream girl -- even though the bum she married was merely an upper middle class brute. Gatsby needs Daisy in order to realize the dream. He thinks it's all about the house and the parties and the cars and that the girl will complete it for him. The truth is that she won't. But because he's nouveau riche he's never going to understand that (or why she'd never be with him).
I was going to say I'd take chitlins over cucumber sandwiches any day of the week, but then I looked up what chitlins actually are, and...yeah, I'd still take the chitlins.
As a white dude I find it fun to try and guess what new slang word will make the jump from black culture to the mainstream. My money was on "ish" for awhile, but it doesn't seem to be taking hold.
I just found out what "skeet" meant, and so far it seems no other white people do, so I've been amusing myself walking around randomly interjecting, "skeet, skeet" lil john style into my conversations.
After reading all of these comments, I would like to make a corny suggestion...
We should have TNC Meetups.
Hands down, all of you are the coolest people ever.
I mean, who wouldn't want to have a lively conversation like this (and other things) over a beer?
Anyone for Baltimore/DC?