...it's spelled Ta-Nehisi, but pronounced Tah-Nuh-Hah-See. But seriously, following up on that convo we had a few weeks back on how names and class work amongst white people, I got this e-mail from physician:
The real reason I wrote, was to educate you in a very small way about names in white culture. You wrote recently about how certain white names signify a lower socioeconomic status, a nuance that had until recently been lost on you.
As a pediatrician, and one who is having a spasm of ire right about now, there is nothing like a name as class signifier. In particular, I would like to share two with you. Nevaeh is a very popular name right now, and I have several in my practice. Its origin? "Heaven," spelled backwards. Not a name you'll be seeing on the Upper East Side or Martha's Vinyard.
Ditto any "creatively" spelled Biblical names. Being named "Eyezaya" (you figure it out) only really tells people that your parents were too lazy to look up the correct spelling in a handy Gideon Bible. This also applies to names with extra Hs, Ss or vowels.
I thought that this was pretty funny. But also pointed to something about the whole "black pathology" piece. We are always quick to assume that the black poor are somehow particularly dysfunctional, and not simply poor. I read and enjoyed Freakonomics and liked that chapter on "black names." But one wonders why folks don't study the impact of "white working class" names, or the difference in naming traditions amongst the black working class and the black middle class
I've been banging this point home over and over, but I think the fact that the major centers of study, theorizing and writing (Manhattan and D.C.) just so happen to be in areas with large amounts of poor black people, almost no poor white (or even working class) white people, really colors the conversation. I want to add that as someone who named his son Samori (when its pronounced Sah-Mar-Ree) and who came up around girls literally named Shenikwa and boys named Travon, this idea that naming your kid something different--color aside--justifies your socio-economic status holds zero truck with me. Of course unintentionally misspelling a kid's name, well...
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Naming a child is the first decision parents make on behalf of their children. Parents may want their child to have a "distinctive" name, but I wish they'd think a bit about spelling and ease of pronunciation by all those people who will have to read the name on loan applications, job applications, school forms, medical paperwork, and the like.
And I agree with the point the peditrician made: an unconventional spelling of a name says more about the parents than the child. Perhaps "Eyezaya" was chosen intentionaly so it would "stand out."
I once knew a child whose name was Cennendeigh, pronounced "Kennedy," a girl, white, whose parents chose the unconventional spelling to be "different." Mostly, it confused people and condemed "Sin-nin-dig" to a lifetime of explaining how to pronounce her name. Nice kid, though.
There's a second and even more interesting element of white class-signified names. While you get some novelty (like nevaeh), a lot of working-class or working-poor names were popular among the upper east side set two or three years before migrating downstream. So you had popular brittanys among the rich a few years before it migrated down to britney in Mississippi and Louisiana. I don't remember where I saw the article on this trend, but it came out within the last year or so.
I guess what that means, as well, is that it does sometimes get covered, though not nearly as frequently. And, to back up TNC, the migration is likely to go from the coasts to Places-where-people-on-the-coasts-don't-go.
Data point: my boss told me he would hesitate with applicants with distinctively "black" names because it signifies the person was raised by militant parents and likely would not have the right attitude toward work.
Data point: I know several small business owners who hesitate to hire minorities because they expect to be sued if they try to fire them for incompetence (which is sometimes necessary for new employees of any race); this actually happened to one of the business owners trying to fire a new employee who did no work. In this way, "black" names signify that this applicant has the power to disrupt or destroy your business if they happen not to work out. This is my hypothesis for the incredible Bertrand and Mullainathan resume study. I have no idea what, as a public policy matter, we can do about this.
I think a lot of the stigma attached to unusual names, spellings, etc. is going to abate within a generation. Children today are growing up in an environment where "uncommon" names are actually more common. Rich kids, poor kids, black kids, white kids- it ain't no thing to them. We older folks just need to get over it.
You should do a post on names as signifiers of middle-classness. Also, Samori is a hard-core marker of black middle-classness.
We are currently having work done on our house, and we are friendly with the contractor and his wife. They are great people, with a great daughter. Unfortunately (as far as I'm concerned), they chose to name her "Feenix". I think I could live with "Phoenix" (I actually kind of like that idea), but Feenix just pains me. It reads like they are opposed to paying fees.
The last time names came up, I mentioned the white girl I knew named Gennessee, which is, I think, the worst girl's name I have ever heard or hope to. I think there's also a greater stigma on 'unusual' boys' names-- I see more variation in even upper-class/'classy' white girls names than the boys'.
Heh -- just saw the misspelling of "Martha's Vinyard" by the learned pediatrician. It's Vineyard, BTW, even though the spelling does not match the pronunciation.
It's interesting, in fiction, spelling phonetically is usually used to show the low-class or "different" racial status of the speaker. E.g. (from the Uncle Remus stories): "'I seed Brer B'ar yistdiddy, 'sez Brer Fox, sezee, 'en he sorter rake me over de coals kaze you en me ain't make frens en live naberly, en I tole 'im dat I'd see you.'" You know this is a loaded gesture because English is notoriously unphonetic in its spelling; even speakers of the Queen's English don't pronounce words as they are "correctly" written.
So is it trashier to spell Isaiah "Eyezaya" or Tah-Nuh-Hah-See "Ta-Nehisi"? Maybe unpronounceability = upward mobility?
In a side note, I'd like to see a 5-year moratorium on non-Biblical names (I'm not Jewish or Christian, BTW) until some of these under-utilized Bible names get equal representation: can I get a Habakkuk or an Abednego? What's wrong with Zilpah anyway?
These things can be highly dependant on geography, too -- I'm a Rebecca from the deep south, and Rebecca is a reasonably common name among southern protestant fundamentalists (like my folks). I've lived in the northeast for a few years now, however, and up here, people often assume I'm Jewish. It just goes to show how fluid such identity markers can be, at least for those of us without strong regional accents.
How frustrating if the name your parents chose suggests that they (and by default, that you) are ignorant.
But typos/grammar errors by a journalist can't be blamed on parents... please fix the "you're" in the post's title to "your."
Misty, Cheyanne, Destiny, Crystal, Charity are nearly sure-thing names for lower class whites. Add "Lee" to the end of any guy's name (i.e. Bobby Lee, Daniel Lee) and you can pretty much guarantee there's a double-wide trailer in his future.
I know several small business owners who hesitate to hire minorities because they expect to be sued if they try to fire them for incompetence...
If one example makes a statement about an entire race, then us white people are f*cked because of my former boss. At one point, the asswipe only came into the office for a grand total of 10 days in 6-months. We later discovered child pornography in his office, had him arrested and he still tried to sue us! True story.
I also worked in a gas station in a small mid-western town in order to pay my way through college. I worked with untold numbers of lower-class whites who were stunningly incompetent and lazy. They used to constantly bitch about how they would have gotten a break if only they were a minority. Sounds A LOT like the supposed black guy claiming racism, no?
People who do this are called douchebags and they come in every color.
Tyler,
You're missing the poster's point, he isn't saying that incompetant people don't come in every color, he's saying that white people won't have a problem firing militant or incompetant white people, but they may fear [rationally or irrationally] that firing militant or imcompetant black people will be harder due to claims of racism...and truth be told, they might be right, so when choosing between Brittany Lee and Kaneesha, they might choose Brittany over Kaneesha because they believe fewer problems down the line no matter if she's a great worker or a bad worker.
Weekend Update, Saturday Night Live, October 9, 2004:
Amy Poehler: The New York Times reported this week that citizens of Denmark have begun to challenge the country's strict law on personal names. A law that allows the government to veto any name a parent chooses for their child. Here to comment, our own Finesse Mitchell.
Finesse Mitchell: Hey... how's it goin'? Thank you, Amy, thank you. Citizens of Denmark, here me when I tell you: Do. Not. Change. That. Law. In fact, I think it's time that our own government recognizes that some women need some serious help naming' their babies here in the United States. Especially young black women. I'm speaking up for all the Laquayquay's and Calamari's of the world. Now don't get me wrong, white women give their babies jacked up names too, like Romer, Frances-Bean and, Apple! But those are rich, famous people kids. they'll never have no Kinko's manager telling them Jermekalalisha isn't gonna fit on a name tag, so they're just gonna call her Jerky for short.
The last time names came up, I mentioned the white girl I knew named Gennessee, which is, I think, the worst girl's name I have ever heard or hope to.
They named here after cream ale? Classy. Perhaps they have a son named Mad Dog 20/20?
A handy resource for white people who think black names are bad:
http://wesclark.com/ubn/
You're welcome!
Anon:
The intent of my post was not well articulated. I'm not challenging the OP's claim that many white perceive this to be true, rather I'm simply saying why this perception is pure bullsh*t.
I did not articulate that well at all, so I see why my response was interpreted that way. My morning dose of caffeine has yet to kick in, so I'm still a little slow...
In New Zealand we have a law about what is an acceptable name. It started because members of a prominent gang (yes NZ has a big gang issue) wanted to call their children Mongrel Mob. Since then some of the names rejected have been great - Benson and Hedges, Fish and Chips, Yeah Detroit, Stallion, Twisty Poi -- a staple food in Polynesian cuisine -- and Sex Fruit. Recently a 9-year old called Talula Does the Hula From Hawaii was made a ward of the court so she could change her name. A family who wanted to call their baby 4Real ("I am pregnant""For Real?") had to settle for Superman. But as the parents said, "To us he will always be 4Real".
I need to make one correction to your statement. Boston, with its wealth of universities - incl. Harvard, from which Bill Wilson and his "underclass" theory came - has one of the higher concentrations of white urban poverty in the U.S. Southie, anyone? I should know, these are my roots.
But the intelligentsia don't cross the river to explore and investigate, but instead just parrot old stereotypes about Irish-black conflict (1970s bussing) and white racism - which, while true - have changed dramatically in this practically majority-minority city of immigrants, incl. 25% of black Bostonians being foreign-born.
That's a bit of a digression, but we have poor whites and poor people of color, and people in Cambridge to check 'em out, but the Charles River is a much bigger social than physical divide.
The mythology of the pathological urban African-American continues unabated...
In college I saw a map of American accents. There were 12 in New England. 3 for the rest of the country.
Guess where all the linguists lived when they identifying accents?
New England.
Correction - I think Wilson was at Chicago when he wrote The Truly Disadvantaged (1987), the seminal book on urban poverty in the last 30 years, but then came to Harvard. Anyhoo, you get my drift.
Tyler,
No problem. I've always thought there was more to those studies about applicants with black names not getting interviewed than simple racism--as in I don't want to hire black people--so what the poster said about his boss makes sense to me from a perception standpoint. It also might make sense that some of those crazy sounding names do sort of scream out 'ghetto' and along with that come all the rest of the stereotypes: poorly educated, speaks ebonics, may have criminal record, etc... So, while it isn't fair to judge someone's resume on their name and not their resume, it makes a certain amount of real world sense.
Interestingly, I have a friend who may have the opposite problem, she's a black girl [angry] with a VERY, VERY waspy name and among our circle there is a view that whenever she has shown up for an interview the interviewer is shocked to find a black woman instead of the tall swedish blonde that they were expecting based on her name and things go downhill from there.
Handy primer on identifying low class white people names:
(1) Sarah Palin's kids.
(2) Add a second first name, e.g. Billy Joe. We should have seen the finance meltdown coming because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are clearly trailer trash.
(3) Under utilized Bible names. Know any Hezekiahs? Not spending enough time in Palatka, Florida.
There's a new trend going around, both in the poor and upper middle class, or naming you kid after favorite brands and commodities.
Lexus for example; and parents proudly will tell you it's after the car.
I've heard that some large ob/gyn practices have someone who's been trained as part of their job to talk parents out of naming their daughter 'Latrina'.
Key internet reference point: Baby's Named A Bad, Bad Thing, a compilation of horrifying baby name discussions on discussion boards for expectant mothers. The worst are hideous misspellings of Celtic names that were unpronounceable to begin with.
If you are going to name your child some wild name make their middle mame bland as possible. Then when they grow up they can chose wether they want to be Takevdum W Smith or T William Smith on their resume.
The best thing I've seen on this subject was from Overheard in New York:
Angry woman to friend: I have a contention with the way people pronounce my daughter's name. I did not name my daughter 'Lady Nasty'! I named my baby girl 'La Dynasty.'
The white, working class names I see get the most scorn are the female ones, especially ones that sound like strippers or porn stars. Names like Tiffany, Candy, Jenna, Amber give off a certain something.
I think a lot of white middle and upper class people shrug their shoulders and say "she is destined for the stripper pole". If it is a white guy with a crazy name, they may think like Ted Knight in Caddyshack: "the world needs ditch-diggers too".
Deleted. You're just maligning people.
The unconventional spelling one bothers me the most, but that's just because nobody can ever spell "Sean" without asking how so I can sympathize with all the poor Sindees and Andruws of the world.
My brother went to junior high with a girl named Styorhia. Her parents (rural white people) thought it was the name of a flower.
She changed her name to Susan the second she turned 18.
My roots are trailer trash in Baltimore (Eastpoint for those keeping score at home. It's sort of a suburb of Dundalk) and my parents are from Indiana farming stock. One trend that amuses me among my now middle-class, museum colleagues is to recover semi-popular names from 50 years ago. If I meet a Leatha, Gertrude, Sybil, or Mavis she will either be a friend of my grandmother, or some historians 2 month old.
I like that trend a little, but look at my name on this board. Yes that is my middle name. It's old family name. Did I mention I started life in a double-wide? I like it a lot more now than when I was a kid or in college trying to woo a Jewish girl I was smitten with. Now that I read a lot of TNC I wear it proudly as part of my TrailerTrash-American heritage.
Another trend among my younger middle-class white colleagues is to substitute vowels with "y"'s as in Symon for Simon. Future historians will think there were lots of Welsh Americans or there was a sharp spike in migration to the US from Middle Earth.
I'm sorry but you just can't compare lower class white names with lower class black names because the incidence and the strangeness of the names is far greater far greater amongst blacks.
Lower and working class whites generally name their kids biblical or very simple white folk names like Joe, Bill, Bob, Cat, Kate, etc. Sure you get the occasional Gennessee or Detroit (friend's kid), but its simply not all that common. On the other hand, I meet black women (and its usually women with the stranger names) with Y's and Q's in the middle of their names every day. There's nothing wrong with this in and of itself. But when non-black folks, and some black folks, here these names, we think of Shaniqua who works the register at Duane Reade with the three inch nails who clicks her teeth when you pay with a credit card. I ain't saying its right. Its just how it is.
These names are far different than the arabic or african (sounding) names adopted by middle-upper class blacks like Ta-Nehisi or Samori, or Rahim or Talib (Q didn't have to shoot Rahim by the way, that was just un-called for). I'm not really sure why. Maybe they have some historical/ cultural grounding that differentiates them from the Latoya's and the Dashawns.
And one more thing. White folks and black folks (latinos and asians are okay on this one). Please stop naming your kids Aidan or some variation of that name (Jaiden, Kaiden, etc.). This name is played out like you know what. It was never a good name in the first place... too soft for a man.
my two cents. the name game is a sideshow and used or not used by a subset of people as a way to prejudge people if the name strikes them as unusual or simply unknown to them. names are a passing fancy, but what an individual assumes through a name and how they act, are absolutely not.
we named our kids somewhat known names, but they each are known by different names: nicknames to the friends they grew up with, e.g. jay-jay, and tookie, which couldn't be farther than their 'given' names, the names my wife and i use [their modified names we used when they were little], the names their adult friends use, etc.
even my dogs didn't escape the name game. strider became "strimo" or his honorific 'you're a good dog name', "strimaster khan you are the whan," and my pup "buddy" who is now "dud" or "duddly" or "duddly do right."
presumption about names is as old as dirt. refrain from presumption and you will be a better person for it. that's my message on names. in a very real way, names mean something to me only if i take to a name after i know the person or living thing, or if i extend a new name and it is gladly accepted by the person with a sense of joy.
your post brought to mind doctors who may be overt racists, classists, homophobes, etc., and treat patients with less care according to the doc's prejudices. i have heard dox express their prejudices to me as if i am a fellow traveller. i have denounced them to their face and publicly.
for me, that is a far worse affront to human dignity, to offer less healthcare to a person based upon color, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or societal status. that is a true crime in the most definitional and moral sense.
as for as the pediatrician who emailed you, he/she should quit practicing medicine or have his/her license to practice medicine revoked, as the sole inference i take away from this dox statement is that he/she provides less care, sub-stabdard care to babies and children based upon race, ethnicity or religion.
that should be the focus of your post by you and to your readers, tnc.
Oh, and Randall. I recently moved to Florida to attend graduate school.
What's up with Palatka? I've never been, but a week doesn't go by without hearing a Palatka joke. In a state full of poor whites, Palatka is singled out as redneckiest among rednecks. Sounds like it is worth a day trip.
Although I identified names often associated with ethnicity and/or class, the big picture is thus: Who gives a damn what people name their children?! I might quietly snicker at a name I find a bit odd, but it really doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things.
Wanna name your kid Bubba-Schlitz Lee? Fine with me! Laqueesha? Knock yourself out.
It really doesn't matter. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to fret about the current state of our foreign policy and the likelihood that the American middle class may get their clocks cleaned in the next 2 years...
Adolphus: your first name isn't Gustav, is it? That would be a pretty heroic combination (in Minnesota, at least), and worth the awkward explanation. getting married in a Catholic Church could get iffy, though.
Unusual mixed-ethnicity families may also generate some innovative names and spellings, popping up in upper-middle class families where one would not expect to find them. Intentionally quirky, old fashined but not cutesy names among my kids' millienium generation friends: lots of Maxes, Zachs, Liams, Ethans, Annabelles, Wynnes, and so in. The weird pack of toddler girls with masculine-style surnames (McKenzie, Cooper, etc) is starting to show up, but I can't peg it yet as a class marker.
Jim,
Fixt. I appreciate the note. The sarcasm isn't necessary though. It was a mistake. I make them often and work at getting better. If that really ruins your reading experience, you probably should look elsewhere.
"I'm sorry but you just can't compare lower class white names with lower class black names because the incidence and the strangeness of the names is far greater far greater amongst blacks.
Lower and working class whites generally name their kids biblical or very simple white folk names like Joe, Bill, Bob, Cat, Kate, etc. Sure you get the occasional Gennessee or Detroit (friend's kid), but its simply not all that common. On the other hand, I meet black women (and its usually women with the stranger names) with Y's and Q's in the middle of their names every day. There's nothing wrong with this in and of itself. But when non-black folks, and some black folks, here these names, we think of Shaniqua who works the register at Duane Reade with the three inch nails who clicks her teeth when you pay with a credit card. I ain't saying its right. Its just how it is."
And you would know Labor because you've thoroughly researched and compared the names blacks and whites give their kids. What, you haven't? Oh that's fine, I'm sure your random encounters on the street and in the neighborhood will suffice. The irony here is rich--taking a lecture about what black people name their kids, from people who routinely are lectured about what they name their kids.
From now on when I reserve the right for all black to assume ever white girl named Tiffany is either a stripper or on her way to being one. I ain't saying it's right. It's just how it is.
two comments
the name thing doesn't just apply to poor black or poor white kids, it also applies to people, like myself, of foreign descent that have "weird" names. it's a daily struggle to educate people on how to say your name, and it hurts you in the job hunt. i had a friend who was told by a head hunter to change his name because he was less likely to get interviews with his last name being a million letters long.
second point. as a doctor i see lots of kids and adults with weird names. but most pediatricians, ob/gyns, nurses, er docs etc. agree that if you name your kids after places (phoenix), things (apple), celestial bodies (star), and spiritual ideas (fate, destiny) bad things may befall your baby.
In the course of my work (social services) I see all manner of names from poor white and poor black families. But, some names leave kids to total failure. Examples:
Sexalean
Honasty (pronounced honesty)
Bristar
Sofcandee
Milove
another favorite Semaj (James backwards)
Anaujiram (marijuana backwards)
Sweet (male name)
Pretty
Marajuwanna (because spelling it correctly would be TOO obvious)
Is there some way we can legislatively mandate doctors and nurses to slap parents with these great ideas for names?
All this makes me think of Bill Simmons joking about wanting to name a son Nathan because Nate Simmons sounds like a black dude from the 70's. I think sports in general will be the ambassador for "black" names in the future. The NFL ain't getting any whiter, and fantasy ain't getting any less popular, so it can't heart that every white dude under 40 has hundreds of Dashawns and Anquans and Jamarcuses memorized.
I'm Muslim and this reminds me of something I've always wondered.. I've noticed that Arab Muslims tend to have fewer religious names, and they spell them more simply, for example, Naima. Whereas Muslims from South East Asia and other areas will give their children more religious names as opposed to just Arabic names, and will go all creative with the spelling, like Nayeemah instead of Naima. I wondered if this is a similar indicator of 'class', since there is an unfortunate (and racist) hierachy in Islam with Arabs at the top, then Asians, Indians, etc at the bottom, who are the most looked down upon. But I might just be imagining it completely.
I maintain that Destiny is one of the worst girls' names, completely failing the "Yell it across a playground" test.
My sister went for a Gaelic name and then changed the spelling to accommodate a nickname she wanted to use. Sigh. The child has a lifetime of spelling ahead of her.
Good point about avoiding hiring minorities for fear that they're harder to fire than whites--it makes a lot of sense.
‘Overly ethnic’ names sound off to my ear, but I can see why African-Americans don’t want their kids’ names to suggest Jefferson Davis or anyone like him.
Judging from MLB rosters, inventive naming has been widespread in the Latin Caribbean for a while.
The spelling-vs.-pronunciation of Sade’s name has always irritated me.
And it should be child abuse per se to give a US kid the name ‘Shlomo’.
I appreciate your ponderings on the poor white vs poor black thing. Being that there are far more poor whites in america, it always annoyed me that black people were labeled with the many negative behaviors that stem from poverty. I agree that it has much to do with the fact that blacks are primarily in the urban centers with a spot light on us. Many black people will stereotype theirselves as if negative behavior and ignorance belongs to us. Everything negative is called ghetto. If people had a chance to see rural communities and small towns, they would know better.
Ta-Nehisi:
I take offense to your comments: A girl named Tiffany can also grow up to be a sub-par pop singer.
What? She later posed for Playboy when her career tanked? Nevermind. Umbrage retracted.
Xenos: No. Nor was I conceived while my parents were students there OR while staying at the Adolphus hotel in Dallas. Two popular assumptions made of people named Adolphus.
Not that there are that many of us. I used to do genealogical research and was amazed how many versions of Adolf or Adolphus landed in Baltimore between the Civil War and WWI. Really drops off in the 1930's though. Peculiar that.
In truth everyone in my family has first names that start with "M" (that's another class giveaway, BTW. Names in a family that relate or compliment each other. Never name twin girls Ivy and Holly. It doesn't turn out well in my experience) My parents were close to naming me Mathias Adolphus. I would hav dug that once I turned 18 or so. I so would have been a Classics scholar.
The funny thing is, when I was growing up it never occurred to me that the town where I grew up, once I left the trailer, was anything but a middle-class military town in the Baltimore suburbs. My parents were solidly what I would call professional class. A teacher and an engineer who were the first in their families to go to college. Now that I am grown and I look at the evidence including a little off center naming practices, neighbors with children from different fathers, the fact that my friends all had parents who were plumbers, contractors, GI's, or dry wall hangers, and the fact that the two favorite family meals were chipped-beef gravy on toast and corn bread and beans (with ham-hocks thank you very much) I realize that I did grow up in lower- middle class family that was in a working class neighborhood. I didn't even realize that some of my friends lived in section-8 housing. I went to their houses all the time. I didn't even know what Projects were while I played with my Hot-Wheels inside of them. I never understood why some of my best teachers were young and most of them transferred to the richer parts of the county. I get it now.
I can't imagine a black boy growing up at this time in similar circumstances not knowing what I didn't know at the time. I don't know if I was shielded, I was naive, or just innocent. But I have noticed that white people with no money are thought of as salt-of-the-earth real Americans that need to be courted by politicians, whereas Black people with no money are just poor.
I have no idea if there is a larger point here or if I am a closet racist for noticing it and I really have no idea what it has to do with this thread. I do know as I sit here at my computer pondering my family's naming practices that I can't help NOT thinking about this.
I love this discussion, but is it relevant any more. We're going to elect "Barack Obama" President.
I recall thinking about this and then looking at the roster of the University of Washington baseketball team and seeing the African American names Brandon (Roy), Nate (Robinson) and Bobby (Jones). Theory, meet reality.
condoleeza, oprah, shaq, ta-nahisi
being excellent is the only thing that matters.
naming your children after people who enslaved you (many of whom have descendants who still despise you) is never going to be popular. black people already carry slave surnames. so why not assert some "self" by refusing to name your daughter jane or susan? (although many do.) remember, blacks were NOT ALLOWED to retain their african languages or names. whites renamed them as part of the process of turning a "Wolof" or "Ibo" into a slave or nigger. and then they get brutally mocked for inventing something new. african american naming is as inventive as jazz and just as indigenous. (see toni morrison on this.)
and just as whites found black music barbaric (until they adopted it and based all of american pop music on it), or black "slang" offensive (until they co-opt it [ever notice how often "dis" is used on the Sunday chat shows]) black naming has also trickled up. ever check out mormon names? you must. what the african american presence allows is for whites to become more inventive.
who do you think inspired irish-americans to release their inner eoin? blacks say, you are not a wasp so stop pretending. what you have is different, awesome and cool too. ah cool, yet another gift.
the truth is anything black is bad. black names. black skin. black hair. black speech. black forms of worship. so blacks try to love themselves and develop ways of being outside of or sometimes in opposition to white acceptance.
This reminds me of the main character in William Gibson's Virtual Light, Chevette, who of course grew up in a trailer.
Adolphus, fwiw, my first thought on hearing your name was of the Swedish king, the scourge of Europe, not a certain murderous German dictator. The history major outweighed the paranoid Jew in me on this one (yes, I'm Jewish): I don't always know which way my reaction is going to break.....
White Americans, from my unscientific sample, are for the most part uncomfortable talking about class, and often haven't thought much about it. Perhaps this is because it's not something Americans like to admit exists in the U.S., even after a quarter century during which inequality has risen (hey, if you mention class you must be a class warrior, sez the R party).
Black folks, from my much more limited and very middle-class sample, mainly HAVE thought about class as an issue, and often have something interesting to say on the subject....
Ta-N says:
"From now on when I reserve the right for all black to assume ever white girl named Tiffany is either a stripper or on her way to being one. I ain't saying it's right. It's just how it is."
I might clear this with Calrissian first, but be my guest. I would say the same of a name like "Jade." Tiffany doesn't draw the same reaction. I just don't take the name seriously.
Look, I obviously haven't done any empirical studies. This is not my area of expertise, as you point out (if you start writing posts about public sector labor relations, I'll start citing studies!). But, I, like you and all of your commenters, have ample experience with (a) what people of different backgrounds name their children and (b) how those names are percieved. My comments are limited by my experience, B.F.D. My experiences are fairly extensive, and they are as valid as anyone else's. In fact, isn't the one of the purposes of your original post to point out how your own experience is contrary to the opinions of the experts?
As for this:
"The irony here is rich--taking a lecture about what black people name their kids, from people who routinely are lectured about what they name their kids."
I don't really get what your point is. Am I the lecturer who gets lectured about what I name my kid (my kid's name is William Francis, a family name)? I don't think I'm lecturing anyone. I'm merely making a comment based on my own opinions. Next time I'll try to qualify my statement by saying that it was an opinion and not a moral certainty, but I thought that was understood of anyone's comments.
I think that you were a bit offended by my Duane Reade cashier reference. Sorry, but that was kind of the point. What I described was obviously an offensive stereotype. But it is a popular one that is associated with what you have called "ghetto names."
I worked for the Gainesville HRS for a couple years when my wife was a student at UF. People made fun of Palatka endlessly- nobody wanted to get posted to the welfare office there. Fellow workers commuted from Palatka rather than stay in their own town and deal with the people. When I had to go work at the Starke office for a year everybody told me to be happy I was not going to Palatka. There is no way it could be worse than Starke, though.
Take a drive to St. Augustine and check it out someday. About halfway there you will be able to smell the onion farms.
Adolphus- I bet 95 percent of the country would tell you that they were middle class if you aske them. Regarding your situation vs. black kids- I think it's pretty typical of all kids to be fairly ignorant of their families' and communities' circumstances- regardless of race, ethnicity, whatever. I teach black kids in inner city Philly, and they're all pretty sure that they're middle class (and some of them are, but most of them definitely are not). Parents tend to shield their children from economic hardship, neighborhoods tends to be homogeneous and most kids don't leave their neighborhoods too often, and everyone knows someone poorer then themselves.
Lower and working class whites generally name their kids biblical or very simple white folk names like Joe, Bill, Bob, Cat, Kate, etc.
My own anecdotal experience is quite the opposite: no one names their kids Tom or Mary anymore. Boys tend to be named after towns in Texas, or with some other pastoral connotation (Tyler, Austin, Cody); girls get names that sound classy to poor people, or that were trendy with affluent people 20 years ago (Brandy, Courtney, Tiffany), or that aren't strictly biblical but have a vague evangelical/charismatic gloss (Bethany, Trinity).
I'm kind of conservative on all this, believing that you don't ever want to give your child a name that will hold him/her back in any way. I know this reinforces the norms of the hegemonic caste or whatever. But you don't name a kid to fight your fights, but to be better equipped to fight his/her own. (though there's always the "Boy Named Sue" rationale).
Witness the complaint about Celtic names above.
And yes, Gennessee was named after the cream ale. And her parents were just as classy as you'd suspect. She goes by Genny now, IIRC.
I always thought Nevaeh was primarily a white evangelical name. Am I wrong, or just missing the point?
Joaquin I can respect. The tard-ass Isaiah, not so much.
Let me ask my fellow white commentors one question: Why does it bother you so much what some black folks decide to name their children?
I'm not talking about the potential problems a strange name can cause a kid (of any ethnicity: See Gennessee for proof) instead I'm referring to the visceral anger it seems to generate from some people. I've seen this from some of my friends and it's never made any sense to me.
The only explanation which makes sense is that, unless black folks act EXACTLY like you, it pisses you off. That's a charitable way of saying you're showing your true colors here.
I'm dying to hear a reasonable and non-convoluted response to this.
On a lighter note, I'd like to pass on two stories I recently heard:
1. A NYC school teacher who has a child in her class whose first name is spelled Asshole. I heard this story second hand, so maybe it's really Ashole, but still...
2. A Georgia tattoo artist who was asked to give a woman a tattoo of a scroll with the names of her husband and her two sons - Buba, Buba, and Buba. And yes, that's how they spelled Bubba. I heard this story directly from the tattoo artist.
"Let me ask my fellow white commentors one question: Why does it bother you so much what some black folks decide to name their children?"
A reasonable and non-convoluted response? Not likely. This reaction can be explained in many ways, and most of them are unreasonable. Here are my opinions based on experience (I have not done any studies and have not reviewed any empirical data prior to drafting):
Reason 1: Some white people are just plain racist, and this is jut another reason to talk shit and exert superiority. I think this is not as large a group as some might think.
Reason 2: Some white people truly care about the well-being of black children, and it angers them that parents can be so careless to name their kid something that will hurt their career prospects (see e.g., well meaning p.s. teachers).
Reason 3: Some white people just enjoy bigoted humor. They are not racist (necessarily, or else they would be in column one) but they like a good black joke and they think Monique and Unique are funny names. These people don't hold back when making fun of white trash either, even if they belong to that category.
Reason 4: Some white people really want to see black folk do better, or believe that they should do better, and they see the use of these names as yet another self-imposed obstacle to assimilation and success. This very similar to Reason 2 I suppose, but this person has a wider perspective, and could have positive or negative motives.
Reason 5: Some mixture of all of the above.
This is the best I could do Tyler. Convoluted, and admittedly far from perfect or reasonable. I'm sure I'll think of more later and I reserve the right to supplement my response.
That last comment was by laborlibert by the way, not Little Carmine. Little Carmine was a name I used to post on NYTimes once and it must have popped up automatically when I hit L.
Don't I feel like a douche.
Of course unintentionally misspelling a kid's name, well...
who came up around girls literally named Shenikwa and boys named Travon
Is there a wrong way to spell Shenikwa?
Tyler, I wonder if that isn't part of it of white frustration with black names. One of the markers of being a proper white person (i.e., it's in Stuff White People Like) is concern about proper language on an anal level. To me, black names are sometimes shockingly non-standard. It's not that I expect all cultures to have the same names, it's that there's no way to track black names in terms of pronunciation or spelling. If someone introduces herself as sha-nee-qua, there's absolutely no way to know how it is spelled. As a teacher, I often find it easier to pronounce traditional Asian names that have been transliterated than black names that are written in my native tongue.
Writing that out, I realize that some people (hopefully, including our host) would say "why the holy hell does that matter to you?" My best answer is that there's something deep down inside my middle-class, Midwest, white identity that really needs some kinds of standards to hang on to. (I bet poor whites have less of a problem with this than I do.) It's one of those things that makes it easier for us all to get along together: we just agree that words have a standard spelling. I fully recognize it's only from a privileged position that I could say "my standard is the standard." But I'm not sure I'm saying "the white standard must be the standard." I think I'm saying "I wish there was some kind of standard that I could understand and would quiet down that weird part of my brain that gets in the way of communicating with someone different."
"I've been banging this point home over and over, but I think the fact that the major centers of study, theorizing and writing (Manhattan and D.C.) just so happen to be in areas with large amounts of poor black people, almost no poor white (or even working class) white people, really colors the conversation."
Absolutely. I would only add that the major centers of study, theorizing and writing should include the academic hubs of each coast and the midwest (Boston, Chicago, and San Francisco).
Jay,
You left out one of Condi's Zs. And Oprah's parents were obviously closet Marx Brothers fans.
My theory is that you shouldn't give kids names that will lock down in any particular way. Whatever you do, regardless of who you are, it will turn out to be wrong when the kid grows up and moves away, or when the fashion changes.
So have at least one of the given names be something fairly innocuous and timeless. (This does not have to mean stereotypically English... Guillermo is fine.) Another one can be an unusual ethnic name that raises spelling/pronunciation problems, or an invention, or a word that means something, or the latest fad. And then float a couple of nicknames on top of that. The kid or his/her peer group will probably think of a few more.
Pay attention to initials, too, especially if they can be pronounced as a word.
With the right equipment, anyone can choose when to be conspicuous and when to blend in. Everyone wants to do both at different times.
Oh, and name adults. Naming babies can be fun, but babies all grow secondary sex characteristics eventually. Brandi is cute for a baby girl, but kind of stupid for a 40-year-old accountant. Save it for a disposable nickname, if you must use it at all.
Specific time and place, but my family has often wondered what posessed my grandfather (Alfred) and grandmother (Edith) to name their 6 sons Millard, Chauncey, Hugo, Dudley, Dexter, and Anthony. What happened at the end--ran out of odd names?
Mind you this is among 2nd and 3rd generation Chinese/Japanese Americans in 1930s Hawaii.
When I was growing up, there was a trend among the 3rd/4th generation Asian immigrants to choose names like Davin or Gavin or Nelson or Grant--or, even for those with "normal" names like Michael, David, or Stephen, the names were rarely shortened--rarely Mike, Dave, or Steve.
But the beauty of all of this, if there is one, is that in the U.S. and a few other countries (Canada--Australia, maybe?) your first name doesn't have to give any clue as to what your ethnicity is, and that some wild combos are available. It's a testiment to free will and what happens when people from all over the world end up in one place. Yes, sometimes it's abused, but on balance I like it.
In my nuclear family, my husband has a vaguely Germanic last name and an Irish first name (though he's not Irish). Riffing on that, the kids have first names that are Cornish and Welsh in origin, although they aren't Celtic either. However, their middle names are Asian or can be read that way. My first name is Latin in origin, middle name Japanese.
And because everything has to go back to Barack Obama, sure Barack Obama is a "weird" name, but I think it also comes across as "authentic" in that it comes across as a real work-a-day Kenyan name, not something that is too difficult to spell or pronounce, or sounds made up. Michelle's parents surely kept the "ethnic" to the middle name (the way my parents did), which is a conscious statement about what you expect from your children, as well. And I've not seen anyone discuss his daughters' names, but those seem to split the difference as well--Malia, especially is a reasonably common name in Hawaii, and if you are trying to keep score on black vs. white, takes you out of that ballpark entirely.
If I may be so bold, I also think that one reason this doesn't happen among whites, so much, is that it's happened too long ago.
No, really. Perline? Used to be "Pauline," a girl's baby name adopted from Paul; but in the South, it evolved. So nowadays "Perline" just seems old-fashioned to us, and not the name of some poor baby girl whose parents never cracked a Bible.
WTF is "white culture?"
If this election season is any indication, one thing we're in for over the next 4 or 8 years of an Obama administration is idiotic, euphemistic usages of the word "culture."
Argh!
It's like the Johnny Cash song 'the boy named sue' if you are going to give your child an off the wall, made up name that is an obvious handicap outside of your own class and culture, then don't complain when the handicap turns out to be a handicap.
My beloved stepfather was named Ocus, no idea how it was derived. He had an uncle named Aree. Actually his initals were R.E. but he was in his teens before any record was made and with twelve kids they couldn't remember what they stood for. Similarly his cousin Boye, as the youngest of 10, never got a name, just called him "boy" and added an "e" when they filled out some papers. He had a brother Hasten, a capitalized word pointed to in the bible by parents who couldn't read.
That said my eldest son is Ocus, because despite comeing from grinding poverty in the hills of Arkansas with a third grade education he was the smartest and most honorable human being it has been my pleasure to meet.
I'm with George Carlin -- Nicky, Eddie and Vinnie will kick the crap out of Kyle, Cameron, Tucker and Todd any day of the week.
Adolphus:
Ok - you're from near Dundalk, so we have lots in common as I am a Laurel man myself. Palatka is the Glen Burnie of Florida ... but so, so much worse. I have family there. No one has jobs. They collect welfare and hunt alligators for their tails, which they then sell or eat. It would be a quick day trip, but you can pass through on your way to Daytona beach.
Matthew McConaughey's brother Rooster named his kid Miller Lyte.
@anon I think they actually found that that song is right--that men named Evelyn and Carol wound up being more aggressively masculine to compensate.
The weird pack of toddler girls with masculine-style surnames (McKenzie, Cooper, etc) is starting to show up, but I can't peg it yet as a class marker.
It has always been a class marker among upper-class Southern whites, signifying that your great-grandfather who bore that surname was Somebody.
Going to college in the South, I knew a girl named Champe (her ancestor John Champe was some kind of Revolutionary War hero), and another whose first name was Pickett, but who went by her middle name, which was Kendall.
Re: strippers names
Strippers (unless they are mega-famous) don't use their real names.
It sounds to my ear like there are some linguistic roots to the types of nontraditional names African-American parents select. As a hint, can you think of ANY white "normal" American male names that have two syllables with the accent falling on the second syllable? I can't. Yet there seem to be dozens of novel black names that do: Travon, Duquayne, etc. Why? Perhaps something to do with traditional names like Barack, Karim, etc.?
Open question as to whether this stems from the inroads of Muslim African and Arab names after the '60s, though, rather than any deeper connection.
Oh, now that I think of it, there are some white male 2-syllable names that have the accent on the second syllable. They're French. The only one I can think of that holds its accentuation in the English version is Pierre. Otherwise they all move the accent to the first syllable, which looks to me like a deep root of anglo-saxon morphology: think Albert, David, Dennis/Denis, Matthew/Mathieu.
can you think of ANY white "normal" American male names that have two syllables with the accent falling on the second syllable?
Maurice is all that comes to mind. But it's common in women's names: Diane, Nadine, Lenore, Camille, etc. plus all of the "-ette" names.
Ah, the name debate. As a black young lady, I have found myself deeply thankful that I got a boring Gaelic name (Kaitlin), instead of the more colorful possibilities. Someone noted upthread that they had a black female friend who has had trouble when she goes to interviews because her name was very WASPy, but then she'd show up and they'd stare at her incredulously? That is the story of my life (and my family's). My mom's name is Russian (Nadja), and she had a few problems when she dated white guys in her youth because the parents always assumed she was a tall blond-haired, blue eyed European instead of a short, Carib-American black woman.
My parents explained the name issue to me very simply: they weren't inventive people, they didn't want us to be at any disadvantage, and they wanted to give us names with historical and cultural context.
I think the biggest issue with black names is that so many hope to recover some identity with African ancestry, but do so in a haphazard and ignorant way. They aren't developing names on the basis of actual context and history; they're just making up a jumble of syllables. Why isn't Barack Obama getting flack for naming his daughters Malia and Natasha (Sasha for short)? Because people consider those "real" names. They connect to a cultural identity and history.
Ta-Nehisi, your name sounds like it was thoughtfully created (and an allusion to a real, if lost culture in America), and so does your son's. Even though neither is part of the American mainstream, I didn't think for a moment that you were less competent because of it (although the spelling errors don't help much ;-) ). Also, your full name has a nice rhythm to it. I know an Osei-Sekou Whitfield Whylie, and let me just say, nothing against the first name, but lots against the whole name.
American male names that have two syllables with the accent falling on the second syllable
Trivia: I once met Grenada’s Maurice Bishop. He emphasized the first syllable, so it sounded like MORR-is.
"Let me ask my fellow white commentors one question: Why does it bother you so much what some black folks decide to name their children?"
I don't know that it bothers me personally all that much. I don't think I am without prejudice, and I'm sure I make assumptions about people based on their names. But I try not to let that snide and petty side of myself rule me, and mostly I don't care much anyway.
But as far as why it bothers some people....I think it's because it's counter-cultural, in the most profound way. Someone naming their kid a "ghetto" name does not give a fuck what white people think of that name, does not give a fuck what the common (white) culture thinks _is_ an appropriate name. It is similar in kind if not in degree to the scorn you sometimes hear at parents who give their kids a hippie name like Rain --- naming a kid is one of the most profound things you can do to publicly declare your values. Choosing to take that opportunity to name the kid Moonbeam (or Moon Unit) is a big fuck-you to the values of the culture at large, which says that's taboo. Similar although much more so for unusual spellings, etc., with the added connotation of ignorance that they carry --- the implication people take that the parent didn't know what was proper, what was even English, and didn't care to learn. Like in this exchange on the 1 train that overheard in new york made into a motto. (http://www.overheardinnewyork.com/archives/001395.html)
I enjoyed reading all these comments. As a tattooist, I started developing a problem with people and their kids' names. Not only do poor white folks name their kids badly spelled and creatively inept names, but they seem to have a big need to get these names tattooed on them. It always bothered me, 'cause many folks would do this when they'd had their kids taken away from them for abuse or neglect. Also, oftentimes, Mom would be yelling at Nevaeh while getting the tattoo, "Shut the **** up! Mama's getting your name tattooed on her!" And when I'd know the kids weren't being looked after. . .Mom is spending her last dime on that tattoo and saying, "Look at how much Mama loves you".
Then the kid grows up and has her own name tattooed on her. Why do people do that? Are they afraid of forgetting who they are? Perhaps that is indeed true, if it's a class indicator. If you move on up, you won't forget where you came from.
Actually, I'm a FORMER tattooist. The whole name thing is one of the reasons I got burnt out. Not kidding.
How is the name "Nevaeh" pronounced?
Question was asked and answered by the Freakonomics boys about five years ago.
The worst example I ever heard, from a pharmacist, was a woman who had named her child "Placenta", presumably after hearing it during delivery.
It's pronounced 'Nah-Vay-Uh.' My father, a traditional Polish Catholic, rather unhappy about what his daughter, my sister, with the traditional name of Mary, named his first granddaughter, calls her 'little girl.' He refuses to say the name. Silly, but I can understand.
The middle name is 'Trinity.' This from a girl who hasn't gone to church in years.
Of course, I wanted to name my daughter 'Jadwiga.' Wife said hell no. :(
One lasting trend, particularly popular among the striving middle classes, is to bestow Waspy family names, such as Tyler, Dalton, Nelson, and so on. Where I grew up in the Deep South, it was fairly common for people to give their children family names -- but only when they were indeed family names. Unless, for example, your mother's or grandmother's maiden name was Tyler or Dalton, it was considered in poor taste and unspeakably presumptuous to name your child Tyler or Dalton, especially if there were Tylers or Daltons about in the town. If you had such a name, you could be expected to be routinely asked about your (blood) relationship to the Tylers or the Daltons, and if you indicated you had none -- your parents just thought it sounded nice -- you might just as well have been named Lakeisha or Amber Belle in those people's eyes. In fact, it was perhaps worse to assume someone else's family name than to have a stripper name, since the pretense of it was virtually inexcusable. I have to admit I still have that sort of gut reaction when I hear of a child sporting a venerable old Anglo-Saxon family name that I know has never existed in the family gene pool -- it's still a sign of the arriviste (or in Southern parlance, it’s just plain tacky).
I am a little late to this party, but I finally feel that I may have something meaningful to contribute. Thanks to all for these rich and civil discussions. I find this very educating and valuable, as these are hardly conversations one has at the office.
"Let me ask my fellow white commentors one question: Why does it bother you so much what some black folks decide to name their children?"
I will try to not be too convoluted, but all of this speaks of class, an idea that is uncomfortable for Americans. Most people do not associate with others outside of their class, and there is hardly social agreement on how class is defined and what it means. It is rarely approached frankly. Interestingly, it is easier to think in terms of race and label accordingly, than to think in terms of class, which is much more nebulous. Therefore, I can only speak in generalizations, and I hope it is understood that individual exceptions to my generalizations about culture/class/race can always be found.
So...
Each class has its social norms and expressions of status that are foreign to other classes, and these behaviors are often mocked. Language and fashion are two main external representations of class. Our discussion about names falls into the language category.
Since WASP's have traditionally been the power-holders in the U.S., many Anglo-Saxon/Euro traditions are the "norm," and anything else is a deviation. Within each class, people will try to get to the top. They are familiar with the symbols of achievement of their class, and they will strive accordingly. One's own class is "normal," anything else is foreign, a deviation, or just plain "weird."
As an Anglo rule, preserving power and wealth in the family is paramount. The social structure of Europe was based on this for centuries. Spheres of influence functioned within a complex set of social rules where power was hereditary. Corporations and companies did not preserve wealth and influence, families did. Names were representative of families, which were representative of spheres of influence, which determined one's social rank.
You don't have to be a historian to see that this paradigm does not exist in the black American cultural tradition. You don't have to go back too far to find that non-whites were seen as lesser human beings, and if they weren't property themselves, they surely didn't own it or pass it on.
Additionally, white culture in the U.S. celebrates education as a way to transcend class. So, if you don't come from a "good family," you can always become educated and attempt to elevate yourself. This is a huge component of the "American Dream."
Anyway, here comes the main point as to why it bothers white folks what black folks decide to name their children:
It is incomprehensible to many whites that blacks would name their children in a way that could damage their future social standing or compromise opportunities. (This is the essence of the pediatrician's comment). Within traditional white culture, names represent class, power, influence and opportunity. (Wealthy artsy types, like movie stars, are given a pass, although Gwyneth Paltrow is not applauded in all circles for choosing the name "Apple." But, within her restrictive upper class, she has little latitude to rebel, except for dating "bad boys" and naming her child odd names.)
Unusual names that do not appeal to family power/prestige are acceptable if they appeal to the idea of intellectual prestige. Therefore, names with a cultural history or meaning are acceptable and often the subject of interest (i.e., Gaelic and Welsh names). K.B. wrote above: "Why isn't Barack Obama getting flack for naming his daughters Malia and Natasha (Sasha for short)? Because people consider those "real" names. They connect to a cultural identity and history." Same goes for "Barack."
Believe me, Sarah Palin's eclectic choice of names for her children is mocked wholeheartedly in upper middle class white culture. It can't be labeled as black behavior, and it can't be labeled as "white" behavior, so it is called "redneck" or "hick." This implies a lack of education, which is obviously low-class. Spelling established names in creative ways also signals low education (which raised the ire of the pediatrician).
Specifically, made-up black names violate a few norms of white culture: they don't appeal to a family history, they don't invoke any mutually understandable intellectual/cultural meaning. Both those violations combine to create another problem: calling unnecessary attention to oneself (attention that doesn't promote wealth or family prestige) is a big no-no. Being too different without any regard for "the rules" is a big disappointment, as it signals a lack of desire to "play nicely" with others-- controlling one's individual desires to preserve defined social order is expected in Anglo culture. THE RESULT: it all adds up to cultural rebellion. It breaks too many implicit rules and norms. The social sanctions normally applied by whites to other whites to regulate such rebellion either can't legally be applied to blacks or simply don't work. Therefore, it is best to discourage the practice, and it is much easier to avoid the whole mess entirely and subtly discriminate against those with "black" names. Outside of black culture, the names simply send too many signals that violate white cultural norms designed to preserve a certain concept of order based on traditions rooted in preservation of power and wealth.
I think the U.S. is more open to discussions of race rather than class. Furthermore, one can be labeled as a class warrior, so it is easiest just not to have the discussion. As we all know, not having the discussion leads to more misunderstandings. Thanks for the forum to throw in my $0.02.
Hey Bostondreams:
my grandmother's name was Jadwiga. I think it is a beautiful name. When she was enrolled in catholic school the nuns renamed her Elizabeth.
I personally would choose names that fit the phonetic structure of English so that my children do not have to spend their lives correcting people. I work in a clinic and get corrected all the time: Kemilah is really "like pamela with a K" yeah right, I am sure I am the first one to mispronounce that one. I always chuckle to myself and wonder what the nuns would changed those names into?
Ta-Nahesi, you are a hero and a champion, but it really is kind of... pointlessly confusing that a name that is spelled one way should be pronounced another way when there is basically no reason to not spell it as it is pronounced, since it's not like Africans were using the Roman alphabet. They've changed the way to spell Mao's name like 5 times, but you can't spell your son's name the way it should be pronounced? That is what annoys white people.
Posted by Ofay McCrackerson | October 2, 2008 3:51 AM
Bwahaha!
Speaking as Jewboy Ben-Greedy, I think you may be on to something. Part of the problem is that English spelling sucks. Israelis have no problem with people inventing novel names because 1. the language is only 90 or so years old in its modern form, and hence 2. most people more or less "invented" their names within the last 3 generations, and 3. Hebrew spelling is pretty much transparent (apart from the no-vowel thing). For the past 15 years or so it's been trendy/upscale to give your kids names like Tal that don't mean anything or refer to anything. Kind of neomodernist chic and also a statement that you're sick of the historicism that's bound up with war and clan ID. My stepsister's daughter is named Shayen (as in Cheyenne, Wyoming). I don't think it means a thing.
Anyway, if we could reform English spelling we might be able to reduce the new-name friction.
po white trash names, yes indeed. As the dust settles on this article and subsequent blogs, I defer to the scenic photo accompanying this article. A name is a name until someone makes it famous or infamous. It is usually easy to tell an east coast snob by their first and middle name (usually inter changeable) and equally a distinct southern name or a west coast hippie name. But who cares! It is our own prejudices that reconfirm the social status of a person we meet with the name recognition. This is what you have in a multi cultural society. Get over it and move on.
Truthfully, I'm a little surprised that this thread hasn't gotten more incendiary. Cosby-esque exhortations to 'stop naming your babies dumb names' are invitations to degeneration in tone. Its a good bunch you attract TNC.
Racial/cultural identity issues are interesting. I was raised by my mom and my grandmother with two brothers, getting free lunch at school. I saw the lower class in all its glory.
I think giving your kids wierd names is less of a handicap by far than the mindset that led you to giving them a wierd name. Maryjawanna is screwed. She can change her name, but by the time she hits 18, her stoner parents will have most likely destroyed any potential she had. Barack Obama was raised by the Wonderbread family. As such he pretty much sidestepped all the problems that Barack Obama from Cabrini Green would have had.
Naming your son Jefferson Davis is going to sound red-necky, and if Jeff applies to a job a minority owned or managed shop, I'll be real interested in THAT interview. But if his dad was a lawyer and Jeff when to U of Alabama, he probably will do fine anyway.
Truthfully, I'm a little surprised that this thread hasn't gotten more incendiary. Cosby-esque exhortations to 'stop naming your babies dumb names' are invitations to degeneration in tone. Its a good bunch you attract TNC.
Racial/cultural identity issues are interesting. I was raised by my mom and my grandmother with two brothers, getting free lunch at school. I saw the lower class in all its glory.
I think giving your kids wierd names is less of a handicap by far than the mindset that led you to giving them a wierd name. Maryjawanna is screwed. She can change her name, but by the time she hits 18, her stoner parents will have most likely destroyed any potential she had. Barack Obama was raised by the Wonderbread family. As such he pretty much sidestepped all the problems that Barack Obama from Cabrini Green would have had.
Naming your son Jefferson Davis is going to sound red-necky, and if Jeff applies to a job a minority owned or managed shop, I'll be real interested in THAT interview. But if his dad was a lawyer and Jeff when to U of Alabama, he probably will do fine anyway.