Colbert: The black man's keeping you downDead. Wrong. So wrong.
Savage: A few black men have kept me down in the past
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Copyright © 2009 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2009 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
Hot.
(I don't know if Savage did anybody any favors, really? -- I will wait for more opinions from your esteemed commentors ;-) -- but he did crack me up. I'm easy, dammit.)
Hilarious...he was on fire!!!
...not that there is anything wrong with that...
somebody give that man a show!
I was cringing wondering what he might say, but it turned out to be so much better than I was hoping for. And funny too!
Stephen continued his theme when he spoke to the mayor-elect of Sacramento. He asked the guy if he fought Dan backstage and the mayor said that he voted no on Prop 8, so the two of them were cool. That was a nice, lighter moment.
Hmmm...
I wonder if those encounters included the 'soaking' and 'saddleback'!!??
Say what you will, Savage can be brutally on point. Just glad he is not waiting for me to die!
Why is he wrong?
Our next gay film will feature extended sequences of both soaking and saddlebacking!
Gee, I thought Chris Wallace was funnier in his Colbert appearance, and Wallace was pretty bad.
Quite a funny piece. Fun to watch and I like how he defused the media narrative of black vs gay.
"Why is he wrong?"
It's a joke. Sometimes you tell someone "You're dead wrong" when they've said something that may be considered offensive, but has some truth in it--or is just funny. Consider it a cousin "Oh, no you didn't..." without the ignorant head-bob, and eye-rolling,
This was an off-color joke, not a condemnation of black voters. Get it? Do I have to spell it out? He's saying he has, in the past, been pounded in the butt by black cock. The titilated "oooh" from the crowd should have been a clue.
In fact, he went out of his way to pin the blame NOT on blacks, but on Mormons and olds.
Dead. Wrong. So wrong...
TNC, Me thinks you missed the inside joke in Dan's statement. Ask some gay guy friends and they'll clue you in....
The whole "black's voted 70/30" story that has morphed into a primary causal factor is simply off base. While the 70/30 stat may/may not be true, let's understand what is common amongst the 70 population that affected their voting pattern. From the accounts and opinions I've read, the common thread is religious participation. That seems consistent with the other large, non black populations that drove the Yes on 8 campaign. Dissecting voting patterns by age, ethnicity, region, etc. makes for interesting reading, but it provides little insight on why these groups voted as they did.
My take-away is we have much work to do to increase understanding and build coalitions with the religious community. They are key - which the YES side of the effort clearly understands and leveraged to their advantage on November 4th.
I thought that line was a joke referring to his past sexual encouters with gay black men. Esp. since right after Dan said, "I don't think we can pin this all on the African-American community..." (which, after all, was Colbert's shtick right before).
It's clear that he's struggling with prop 8 (see, e.g., his blog). I'm struggling with it! It's so awful. I don't think he's crossed the line into black blaming (though I've not read all his posts on the issue). However, he is trying to confront black homophobia. After all, even if prop 8 had failed a 70% black vote for it would be a cause for serious concern.
Unfortunately, in the current climate, it's hard to not resonate with bad things people are doing. But I'd like some stronger evidence that Dan was blaming blacks than this (to me) obvious joke (very much in his style).
Good Lord, I was joking...
Well, I would say there's a whole lot of misunderstandting going on here........
To clarify:
a) yes, Dan Savage was making a "naughty" joke, not actually blaming black men.
b) and ,yes, TNC understood this, and he called it "wrong" not because of disagreement, but as a kind of teasing for making a "naughty" joke...
i regret losing faith in dan. i've been a fan for a long time, but was really pissed off by his blog post re: Black homophobia.
now i'm back to being a fan. i'll never doubt him again.
Ooops. Oh well, the tin ear seems to be on the other foot.
Dan rocked, and TNC-- well, sounds like this misunderstanding might be a bit of a cross-cultural issue here. Just like how i never get any of your references with the hip-hop videos you choose. Hey, it's all right -- we're all learning, aren't we?
@Asher, didn't your mom ever tell you that if you can't say anything nice, you just shouldn't say anything at all? Damn, you complain a lot. Give it a rest or stop drinking so much coffee, yo.
I think I need to try being appallingly earnest for at least a week
A good idea, but that won't work either. We'll still be arguing in the comments here over whether you're kidding or not.
Yeah, "dead wrong" isn't used that way outside of hip-hop worlds as far as I can tell. The wink doesn't translate well.
Er... I interpreted "dead wrong" as "Oooh, he made a naughty sexy funny!"
(That right there is totally why I use so many annoying emoticons.)
(And I know jack about hip hop.)
This thread is hilarious. I think the way he said 'so wrong' at the end made it pretty clear he meant it in a smiling, shaking your head type of way.
That being said, TNC...
"When I get dusted, I like to spread the blood like mustard
Trust it, my hardcore rain leaves you rusted
Move over Lucifer, I'm more ruthless, huh
Leave your toothless, you'll kibbitz, I'll flip it
Tears don't affect me, I hit 'em with the tech G
Disrespect me - my potency is deadly
I'm shootin babies, no ifs ands or maybes"
I don't think Biggie was joking around. He seems pretty serious.
"wrong" is used that way outside of hip-hop worlds. how people here understood TNC to be saying that savage was incorrect rather than outrageous/crossing the line baffles me. this use of "wrong" is akin to "you did me wrong" or the parody song "fat girls doing them daisy dukes wrong".
re:(That right there is totally why I use so many annoying emoticons.)
(off topic)
Exactly. I hate emoticons and feel stupid using them but they do give people some context to better understand what your saying. Which is extra helpful in the world of texting/posting/facebook and myspace.
Dammit, I'll admit it outright -- I am afraid his "old people" comments will be used against him, and I wish he hadn't said it. Even though I lol'd. (Caveat: I am not a brave trailblazing type.)
Yeah, it is baffling. Its giving TNC the least amount of credit ever.
"Ask some of your gay friends, bro, they'll tell you the guy was just talking about having sex with black dudes!!"
By the way, lebecka, Asher is an asshole. Once you come to accept this, he's much easier to handle.
California white girl reader knows that "so wrong" means that was "so good" or "brutally well done." Tho, admittedly, attaching "dead" to "wrong" isn't something I've encountered . . . which didn't keep me from groking what our fabulous host meant. Wish we could do inflection over the internets!
This reminds me of when e-mails go wrong (traditional use of "wrong" here), which tends to happen when the recipient is already freaked out about something (else?), or the matter is sensitive & the recipient isn't ready to kid about it & so doesn't hear it as kidding or doesn't allow for the possibility of kidding. Just sayin'.
That Biggie joint is the worse. I can't even listen to it. Great track, but man it really is dead wrong...
It's giving the least amount of credit *ever*? Yay!
I kinda feel that if I could misread TNC in this context (which I did, mostly because I'm pretty hyperconscious at the moment about the danger of black blaming and gay hating given the high emotions around this topic) then it'd be possible for *him* to misread Dan in this context (esp. given this post; not that TNC was unreasonable there...far from it! but it does make it easy to see the above as a continuation of the (politely) critical part of the earlier post).
So, I guess I'm giving TNC as much credit as would give myself. And while I'm often self-deprecating, I don't think I'm *that* self deprecating.
I watched the Kevin Johnson segment -- he did really well. KJ isn't without his scandals, but I suppose none of it amounted to enough as far as the Sacto voters were concerned.
To go OT here for a bit, KJ is still the only star athlete I saw extensively and in person before he hit it big. I used to go to lots of Cal basketball games growing up, and I remember seeing KJ at the beginning of his freshman year -- he just screamed talent. No one in Harmon Gym missed it, either -- KJ just played a couple of speeds faster than anyone else on the court.
Ok, defending the brain fart isn't working, so I'm switching to giving even less charitable readings. What's the least charitable reading of this post?
My attempt: "Dude, you should realize that Colbert is a satirist. He's doesn't really mean it when he says these sorts of thing! So don't get bent out of shape about his line 'The black man's keeping you down' since it was a joke, get it? And the particular black man in question wasn't YOU in any case! I'm not sure who it was, but it probably was some reverend type....it'd definitely have to be a spokesman for the black community or how else could he keep Dan down? Dan clearly works out, so it's going take several people to keep him down."
So, my current defense: At least I didn't write that in response to this post ;)
Bjin after my screw-up with Maureen Dowd yesterday, you have nothing to be ashamed of.
Dead. Wrong. So wrong...
TNC, Me thinks you missed the inside joke in Dan's statement. Ask some gay guy friends and they'll clue you in....
Hey, I love the post-modern nature of this. Savage makes a comment, TNC comments ironically, folks, who are missing the irony of TNC's comment, then accuse him of missing the irony in Dan's.
Hilarious. In any case, I think any commentary on Colbert has to pass a minimum irony level to even make sense.
I can't believe people are talking about Kevin Johnson like he's just the mayor of Sacramento. He was one of the greatest point guards in the league at his peak! He banged on the Dream!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqJvGIvWHfI
To second what CLH said..
for us crackers.. "Dead Wrong" doesn't have any ironic connotations to it..saying "Oh, that was wrong.. so very, very wrong.." would be a lot more clearly an example of irony..
Even though I kinda figured that this was what you originally meant.. I had to watch to be sure.
Comic awesomeness..
and not to fret about such things.. fuck the importance of being Earnest.. translation errors are just opportunities for learning..
As if 9/11 never happened.
Ooo, that plus the reminder of Dowd leads me to a new excuse! I was ironically (mis)correcting TNC in order to highlight the Dowd debacle!
Er...maybe I was showing solidarity with TNC by making a similar mistake?
OR! I was laying a trap? For myself?
Ok, I've got nothing....
Dan Savage was on fire last night. I've never seen Stephen lose it to the degree he did with the saddleback/soaking up moment.
The whole show was one of the funniest ever. I mean by the time we got to all the spy stuff that was anally inserted, I had to hit pause just so I could laugh fully and not miss anything.
That whole show was bomb and I'm glad that Dan Savage pointed out the fact that black gay people actually exist and these artificial binary conflicts of blacks vs. gays or blacks vs. women etc. are simplistic and don't reflect reality particularly accurately.
Absolutely DO NOT change a thing. We love you just the way you are, and the people who can't tell when you're playing and when you aren't should not be reading this blog.
I'll echo tricstmr.
This white guy was confused by the dead part. I have heard the word "wrong" alone used the way you used it. To me, "dead wrong" means, not just incorrect, but completely incorrect.
"A Few Black men have kept me down in the past" Code for: See, I'm not racist, because I sleep with black guys too! The only thing that was dead wrong was his quickness to place the prop 8 thing on blacks. He was one of the earliest adopters of that line of argument, and one of the most powerful. Knowing that he's had sex with black men in the past doesn't atone for that.
Because I can't resist a Biggie reference: "And just to think I was gonna have a baby for you, until some bitch said she was having one too? Oh no you're wrong, nigga dead wrong, you know the song, you don't know what you got til it's gone..." That was Lil' Kim, though. I dunno, I don't recall "dead wrong" being used ironically. I caught your meaning TNC, but I thought you were riffing off "Oh no, that is SO wrong," i.e. "I can't believe you just made a joke that sick!" in nerdspeak.
What the hell is Savage doing on TV? He should be thinking of definitions for the names of various fReichtards. He can start with Cantor.
Oh well, the idea of interracial ghey sex certainly caused a few fRighty heads to go kablooie. I second whoever said he needs his own TV show.
His appearance on Anderson Cooper's show is even more awesome. And only slightly more restrained.
Savage sounded nervous, but I suppose he was coming on to back off from the crap he posted on his blog.
Perhaps if Savage gets his own show, he can invite Isaiah Washington on, and ask how's it working out for him in Hollywood. Savage can show that gays don't have a lifelong grudge against someone who says something stupid. Sorta like how black people wont try to keep Savage from having a show or job, because he said something stupid about us/them.
"A Few Black men have kept me down in the past" Code for: See, I'm not racist, because I sleep with black guys too! The only thing that was dead wrong was his quickness to place the prop 8 thing on blacks."
Code for: clueless about the issue. Mormon "churhes" and "temples" are under siege night and day - pogroms and burnings are just a faint hope - and black and Catholic churches are getting a pass. No big mystery - black churches have all the kumbaya credit from the Civil Rights era, Catholic churches are full of "latinos" (cue "Guantamera"); Mormons are despised. You're just not clear on the sacred cows of gay orthodoxy.
Don't worry. No one is blaming all black people, just the church-going ones. Why should anyone's superstition and bigotry be above criticism?
Must be interesting to be a Mormon now.
Republicans and the Religious Right: We're sorry, but we just can never vote for one of you as President. Also don't you think the devil is Jesus's brother or something?
Liberal Democrats and the Left: You're Right-wing and full of hate.
I guess what would be even worse is if you're a Mormon who voted against Prop 8. Then you get to be disliked in your own community and have gay protesters outside the temple you attend. (Maybe the Mormons said they'd excommunicate anyone who voted no, but how would they know who did?) Fun.
I stand a fair shot in any contest for Whitest Person on the Planet, and it was really obviously a joke. It's. The. Periods. People.
I've only been reading for a few months, but I can already say with some confidence that TNC never just links to things that piss him off, but is always interested in discussing WHY they piss him off. Something this short is never a simple negative.