This is, like, a mixture of tragedy and humor. I laughed, and then I was embarrassed for Nader. Tragicomic, I guess. Sorry, I'm not making thoughts...so. .good. Anyway, what's truly tragicomic is that I can't not blog. I love the O.C. shout-out at the end... Time's Up indeed.
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» Ralph Nader Ends Campaign in Disgrace, Calling Obama an Uncle Tom from Liberal Values Comments (66)
Even with buckets of corporate money, Ralph couldn't buy relevancy. And he couldn't throw the election to McCain. I hope the idealistic young people who followed Nader see his true colors now. Nader is a sad, pathetic person. 
you have to start to wonder if its an ego thing...shep gave him every opportunity to say the Uncle Tom was a poor choice of words. The fact is had a white guy/girl won regardless on party and Nadar was trying to make the same point would not of said Uncle Tom. I get his point, I really do..but you lesson your argument/point when you use racially coded words. It has to be Ego now, what else is left? Ron Paul you can atleast see that he is enthusiatic and it's not about him.
Can Barack Obama please call upon us to be one nation except for douches who voted for Nader?
I love the fact that he called Shep a 'bully,' like he was dealing with O'Reilly or something. It was pretty sweet that Shep kept reminding him that he was irrelevant. Gotta be honest, I watched a lot of Fox last night to see their reactions, and they weren't bad. When they actually stick to news, they do it pretty well. The guy that covered Obama the whole campaign is one of the best around. I think his name is Major Garrett. I would have loved to have Hannity around just to see his reaction. I'm sure he was sedated in a back room somewhere. Seriously though, TNC, I order you to take a day off. So many broken promises, and its only the first day.
Maybe its just easier to be nice to Fox news the day after just a satisfying victory. As far as Nader, I think he had a quote a few months ago where he accused Obama of acting white. He's a nobody. And it bothers him. That simple, I think.
The man just should have stuck to his beneficial role of a consumer advocate. You've done some great things Ralph, but you've been a thorn in the side of American politics for nearly a decade now. Time to slink away.
Dan S.:
Agreed on all counts, Stacy. I guess even Fox has a core of decency in there somewhere. And yes, take the day off, TNC. We'll be here when you get back.
People tend to follow one of two paths as they get older. They chill out or they tighten up. Nader tightened up and is in full on left-crank mode. Maybe its psychic distress at the knowledge that he is pretty much personally responsible for Bush getting elected. And he isn't nobody; there are tons of people who would say the same thing that didn't get invited onto Fox News. But he's in old codger mode; if he weren't famous he'd probably be *69'ing missed calls and bitching people out for not leaving a message and writing angry letters about the time those kids threw their football into his yard.
TNC-- Kingdomofloathing.com http://www.ferryhalim.com/orisinal/ Addictive nerdy candy! Admittedly, the only real way to stop blogging is to flee the computer, but they ought to be worth a bit of not-blogging. My favorite orisinal game is the one with the little teardrops you're supposed to catch. :3
Shep Smith sometimes does things that might surprise the typical Fox News critic (i.e., his repudiation of Joe the Plumber's claim in an interview that a vote for Obama is a vote for the "death of Israel). He was also pretty good in his coverage of Katrina.
Thanks for posting the video TNC. When I saw it last night I was blown away. It is sad, but I was impressed that Shep Smith, a FOX News anchor of all people, admonished him. Shep is one of a handful of few decent people on Fox though. Its okay to break a promise for a GaPeach - thanks again. And seriously, go to sleep or something! :)
I hear he's dating Gerry Ferraro.
While a right-of-center conservative, I'm also becoming vehemently anti-Boomer. Thus, I'm willing to give Obama a chance on a number of levels (the eclipsing of the Clinton era not among the least of these). However, one thing about President-Elect Obama's campaign continues to give me great pause. Can anyone intelligently explain to me what a "citizen security force, as powerful and well-funded as the military" means, exactly? If I would have been running McCain's campaign, I would never have mentioned Bill Ayers, but instead hammered on the Obama campaign until they explain how a civilian security force outlined as he did in that speech shouldn't give us visions of Brownshirts dancing in our heads. Seriously...nobody that I've seen has cross-examined this from either side. WTF is he talking about?
Jeff D, While I suppose you could call the entirety of Shep's coverage of Katrina decent, I have to ask if you saw him do something during that coverage that incensed me enough to stop watching him completely. I don't remember how far along it was; certainly days after the storm passed. He was standing on a raised road or highway of some kind and was talking about the devestation and suffering as he slowly walked in a 180 degree arc around the cameraman. When he got to his closing statement about how bad it was, he stepped aside to reveal a dead body, bloated in the heat, about twenty feet or so behind him. I sent him an email with the subject of "Theater With a Dead Man" and commented on how disrespectful, how disgraceful his little episode was. Not just the execution of the 'cast, but you know they had to have stood there for a while and choreographed the shot, including the dialog and the movements in order to have the most dramatic effect. A horrible de-valuing of human life.
I think this is how he got from "Ralph the Consumer Advocate" to "Ralph the Irrelevant Old Codger:" 1. You don't get to be a consumer advocate on his level unless you can depersonalize people as "tools of the big corporations." I don't think he would ever call community organizer Barack Obama an Uncle Tom. But anyone in a position of power within either party is, in Nader's world view, nothing more than a tool and therefore not worthy of basic respect.
I think Nader needs to be on TV a lot more. Simply because every time he opens his mouth more people figure out what an ass he is. I sent the Obama campaign a policy question a few weeks ago and about 3 days later had a good response. I sent Nader's campaign a question when he started his campaign about his union-busting in his own shops. I'm still waiting on that response. Nader's campaigns have always been about one thing -- Ralph's ego. What probably galls him more than anything is that he sees his failures as evidence of a system designed to prevent him from winning. The fact that a black man won forces him to denigrate Obama as a "Tom" so that he doesn't have to change his world view. In short, Ralph, the system didn't reject you, WE DID!
Ralph Nader of all people should know what the boundaries are and what a US president can accomplish. This is really an attempt to put shackles around the President-elect and to have the bragging rights to say "I-told-you-so" years down the line.
Poor Ralph: He is a strong believer in a world without big business and in his own rightness. He can't help himself. He has to go out and do battle for what he believes in. Don't think this is simply an egoistical trip for him, unless you take his ideology as "him". So long as the gospel of the forgotten consumer is not preached in public, he has to!
That's really sad. Nader just totally lost me there. I see what he was trying to say, but damn. Used to love that guy, too. What a shame.
The you lose the moral high ground to Fox News, well, maybe it's time to hang up the skates, as we say in Quebec.
I defended Nader on the "acting white" comments earlier in the campaign because I felt he was just making a point I'd heard a number of Obama supporters frankly acknowledge - that Obama was somewhat constrained in his message because, unlike John Edwards who was totally free to talk about poverty all he wanted, Obama had to deal with the reality of getting pigeonholed as the "black candidate" if he spent too much time talking about so-called "black issues." Now I feel totally dirty for giving him the benefit of the doubt. What a complete asshole.
Oh Ralph...here are your laurels. Now go over there and rest on them, okay?
Nader is like a lot of people who are entirely convinced of their rightness, are frustrated they aren't being heard and have concluded that the best way to make people pay attention is to use harsher and harsher language. Its the rhetorical strategy of a not-too-bright child and somewhat pathetic to watch a grown man execute.
Best Part: Shep: Really...(3 second pause complete with disgusted stare) Ralph Nader, what was that?
We are the crack cocaine of the commentariat.... I think Ralph with Uncle Tom and Acting White is doing what he did with his random talk to that parrot and his one-word-answer news conference. That is, a stunt. He also seems to have some issues about proper black attitudes from his vahst experience, but mostly when he is an obnoxious ass on film it gets played. Give a speech on policy and, well, he's like Kucinich without any hope for the photographers of glancing Elizabeth in the background.
Nader is an idiot, but he's also a warning. We've elected a pragmatic President whose big plus is that he is going to make some moderately liberal things actually happen. It's the pace at which things will happen, not the things he proposes, that set him apart. He's utterly mainstream on defense, deficits, schools, families, and the place of faith in public life. Nader thinks that's unnatural. He wouldn't expect every white person to be on the far left, because many of them are privileged. But he see's an African-American who isn't aiming for something close to revolution is a weakling specifically suited to the "Uncle Tom" insult. Thing is, Nader can't possibly be the only one out there who assumes, based on race, that Obama belongs in the radical column. So far, I think the mistake has been MORE common on the left than on the right, and he gained more votes than he lost. As he starts governing, I expect some folks to be quite surprised. Even among people I love dearly, I expect some important disillusionment in a few months. It's their own dumb fault, but their frustration will still be a political problem. Nader is an extreme example of the mistake, but I predict that he's only the tip of an iceberg the President-elect and his governing coalition will have to steer around.
Here's the thing about Nader - he lacks the minerals and vitamins, the iron AND the niacin.
Oh Raplph. I'm not a religious person, I voted for Obama and I rarely go to church but I remember reading in James as a kid that "God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble." Nader's word choice is deplorable. Obviously the man didn't think before he said what he did. He was even given the chance to retract and he said that he wouldn't wow. That being said I think Nader's question without the racist uncle tom reference is one that every president has to answer. Every man who has ever held the presidency has had to ask himself at one point if he is going to serve the interests of the people who elected him or if he is going to serve those who funded his campaign. I wish he had used those words instead. It seems that Ralph Nader himself is now unsafe at any speed.
I'm watching it right now...my God, Nader's sounding like a crank. For some reason I've always liked Shep Smith. I think he's a closet case and deep down hates what he does for a living.
I would also like to say that I pity Nader for his comments. They aren't funny, or relevant, or even overly racist, so much as incredibly tragic. Nader has become in his last years the epitome of the aging prima-donna whom the world used to love who is now acting stupid just to get attention. It's like the final scene in sunset boulevard. Tragic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhlhE32SoXs
For most of my life, if you told me that one day I would be watching Ralph Nader argue with a Fox News anchor, and cheering for the Fox News anchor, I would have laughed in your face. That was pretty mind-blowing. It's really a shame because I had great respect for Nader's legacy and even stuck up for his decision to run in 2000 (because the miniscule percentage he got doesn't come close to the percentage of people who plain DID NOT VOTE that year). And yet, Nader completely walked into and deserved that pwnage.
O.C.? Orange County? I'm confused. Is this another black thing that I don't understand? Sorry. Each one teach one. Somebody teach me. Thanks.
I look at Nader, grimly hanging on when even those who acknowledge the value of his past work wish he would hush up and go reform something, and I fear for the coming hegemony of Joe the Plumber.
Just came back from tokyo to my brand new country. Can't lie, this is what was going through my mind when I landed: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZAuY4ULNcE
I read recently that random strangers still frequently verbally abuse Ralph Nader when they run into him out in public. I really hope to do that myself someday. He reminds me of this crazy old homeless guy who stands in doorways and yells at passing traffic. I should feel sorry for him but just don't.
On the bright side, Nader is showing FOX viewers what a level-headed centrist Barack Obama really is (by comparison to himself).
I'm not getting it. Perhaps it is because the expression is a bit of a shifter, and I am completely convinced that Ralph Nader is anything but racist, but I do not find what he said particularly offensive. I may have higher hopes than Ralph Nader does (and I bet I do!--after all, I find Obama inspiring), but I wonder if what we have here is a bit of hypersensitivity.
Phoebe- Time's Up is a song by the rapper O.C.
Pedro-- think clearly about this. of course Nader was trying to be offensive. If he wasn't, he could simply have said something like, "Whoops, certainly didn't mean that the way it came out!". Instead, he takes a couple of chances to reiterate it and to underscore it in a very mean tone.
Is it ever appropriate for a white man to call a black man an Uncle Tom? I gotta say no. I gotta say, hell no. That's about as low as can go without dropping the N-bomb. Because it's basically just another way to say the guy is a House N-Bomb. They're practically synonyms. If my memory of Beecher Stowe doesn't fail me. Nader disgusts me. Go. Away. Now.
"Is it ever appropriate for a white man to call a black man an Uncle Tom?" I think the whole Uncle Tom concept is a dumb one - a person doesn't owe any kind of loyalty to other members of their race. Stupid idea. But, uh, if Nader had said this about Clarence Thomas, I tend to think there'd be less outrage. Like it's not so much that Nader's white, it's that the target of his attack is Obama.
Asher, While I agree with you quite a bit, its clear that you are a huge asshole. What you do isn't trolling, but you're certainly a prick. And not in a fun way. Often times you don't really add anything, you just like to disagree a bit and point out that liberals are just being liberals. Nader didn't even necessarily attack Obama. He asked if he was going to be an Uncle Sam or and Uncle Tom. Its a just a really fucking dumb thing to say. But you knew that. I don't see how Clarence Thomas has anything to do with it.
The underlying problem with Nader's comments isn't that they're racist. Its that Nader seems unconcerned these days with the fact that we live in a democracy, and that the hallmark of democracy is compromise. Nader has increasingly proven himself to be an uncompromising zealot. Now if only Fox News extended the same treatment to Andy Martin and all the other lunatics whose opinions they regularly air. They might as well bring Hannity into studio "H" while they're at it. "If you stare long enough into the abyss, it stares back into you."
But, uh, if Nader had said this about Clarence Thomas, I tend to think there'd be less outrage.Counterfactuals are fun, aren't they? Here's one for you: If you spout nonsense, no one will listen to you. Q.E.D.
It's unfortunate that Nader's criticisms--which are substantive and important, as he tries desperately to point out--are overshadowed by an incendiary turn of phrase. When does the left begin to get to point out Barack's cozy relationship with the status quo? Oh well, unreconstructed culture warriors and unrepentant socialists need to learn about compromise or be damned by Obamamania to the lunatic fringe.
"its clear that you are a huge asshole." True. "Often times you don't really add anything, you just like to disagree a bit and point out that liberals are just being liberals." I mean, there isn't much to "add" here - like what would count as a substantive addition, another "yeah, that's really terrible" comment to add to the Nader pile-on you've got going? "He asked if he was going to be an Uncle Sam or and Uncle Tom. It's just a really fucking dumb thing to say." Definitely is. (Like who knew being an 'Uncle Sam' was even a good thing anymore? It's not the 40s...) But like I said, just pointing out that Nader's washed up and he said something that was fucking dumb to say... like I think we get that point. Someone said that a white person should never say such a thing, and my point would be this: a, Uncle Tommery is a horrible, invidious concept to start with, whoever's talking it up - though I definitely agree that it's a lot more verboten to talk about if you're white - and b, some of the over-the-top pious condemnations of this very dumb comment strike me as more of a "how dare he attack Obama" thing than a "how dare he, as a white guy, call a black person an Uncle Tom" thing. And I'll also say this. I think it's legitimate to ask questions, though not in that type of inflammatory language, about whether Obama gives a shit about poverty or plans to address it, to what degree Obama may be willing to sell various constituencies down the river to avoid the slightest appearance of overzealously serving minority interests, what it says that Obama made a point of avoiding campaigning in urban areas while having people like Jay-Z and Nas do that campaigning for him, what corporate interests and lobbies Obama's beholden to - so, like someone said above, I wouldn't want Nader's inflammatory choice of wording to totally obfuscate the worthwhile questions he raises.
I think the whole Uncle Tom concept is a dumb one - a person doesn't owe any kind of loyalty to other members of their race. Stupid idea. Setting aside the utter wrongness of that simple statement the "Uncle Tom concept" is not about some extra loyalty owed to one's race but about appropriately describing a particular type of disloyalty that is centered around issues of racial justice. I am a black person and I can be disloyal to a white person. That may or may not be wrong depending upon how sociopathic one wants to be but it wouldn't make me a Tom. I can also be disloyal to a black person in a way that has nothing to do with race, like maybe I cheat them out of a job. That would also not make me a Tom. But if I were to cheat a black person out of a job by specifically encouraging racial discrimination, well then call me Uncle Tom. Interestingly, the Uncle Tom of Uncle Tom's Cabin (a tremendously awful book in case anyone hasn't read it) is not actually the kind of docile house slave type that his name is meant to evoke. But however incorrect the distortion of that particular character's name has become, the point is that some slaves were used by their masters to discipline and control other slaves and were rewarded with very minor comforts for their efforts. Did house slaves owe it to other members of their race to resist being used in that way? I would emphatically say yes while acknowledging that such resistance would not be easy or end well. But at the very least I would say that the expectation of such loyalty is not reasonably described as a "stupid idea." More to the point, I think it is perfectly appropriate to develop terminology that delineates that particular type of disloyalty and so we have. To your point, the description of Clarence Thomas as an Uncle Tom is based upon the idea that he is a black person that has acted in a way that is specifically harmful to the rights of other black people. Its not a term I would use and I wouldn't be especially happy with Nader using it but when one considers Thomas's career as a hatchet man for Reagan at the EEOC, you're right, it doesn't bother me quite as much. It would bother me nonetheless. In the way he discusses Obama however, he is trying to make a much more generic point about corporate power versus the rights of the poor and Uncle Tom is just thrown in there because he knows it will draw attention to himself. If Nader has a case to make that Obama has some inclination to harm the rights of black people, he sure didn't make it in that clip and I have never seen him try to make it anywhere else.
But, uh, if Nader had said this about Clarence Thomas, I tend to think there'd be less outrage. When does the left begin to get to point out Barack's cozy relationship with the status quo?
A black person doesn't owe it to other black people to resist an attempt to make him an "uncle tom." Any person owes it to every person to resist any attempt to enslave or control any other person. Blacks eventually earning their freedom wasn't simply good for blacks. It was also good for whites and everyone else. Martin Luther King didn't owe it to black people to pursue justice, he owed it to humanity.
It's a bit rich to accuse Nader of racial insensitivity after the Fox Network has spent the past year stoking the flames of a race war. If you've been watching FNC - Obama is a "radical Muslim terrorist-sympathizing socialist," yet Nader needs to show some racial sensitivity? I think Smith was more offended with what Nader said about corporations, than what he said about Obama.
truthmissle, yes, we all know Fox sucks. Been there, done that, read several of the books. The point is that when even Fox thinks you're going over the line, you're going over the line. And I think you're very, very wrong about what Smith was reacting to.
I've actually railed against people (black and white) for calling Clarence Thomas a Tom as well. It's a stupid thing to say, no matter who says it or about whom it has been said. The reason I'm especially upset about Nader saying such a stupid thing is that he was a hero of mine. I've defended him for years against people who blame him for everything from Bush v. Gore to 9/11. Now he goes and shoots his mouth off, talking stupid, and it alienates the very people his good ideas would help the most. Who's going to listen to him now?
A black person doesn't owe it to other black people to resist an attempt to make him an "uncle tom." Any person owes it to every person to resist any attempt to enslave or control any other person. Logically speaking, if anyone owes it to everyone, then black people owe it to other black people. Presumably we are members of the groupings of both anyone and everyone. Whether it is a special loyalty is really not the point although probably worthy of discussion on a different thread. The term Tom is merely a colorful (so to speak) way of identifying a particular context in which that trust is violated. If it were a woman arguing against the rights of other women, for instance, I might evoke a name like Phyllis Shafly. Like I said, there are many ways to be disloyal to other human beings. "Uncle Tom" just identifies one of them.
Asher:
I saw a bloggingheads episode with Eric Alterman and he was complaining about in the liberal community, there is always the liberal one upper guy (I'm paraphrasing here). He is the moralizer who loves to castigate other lefties as being too mainstream, and are selling out to the man. I found it amusing that Alterman was complaining about it because he is often that guy. But I think Nader has resigned himself to being that guy as well. He probably also thinks his liberal street cred is so earned, that he can get away with calling someone a racial charged term without having to be called on his bullshit.
Being a consumer advocate does not buy Nader a pass on behavior like that. He's irrelevant now, and I'm glad he got called on it. Fox News anchor or not, Smith did well nailing morons to the wall when they went too far. Smith gave Nader a few chances to simply say it was a bad choice of words. Nader didn't and he can kiss my black "I voted for Obama" butt. What he said was completely moronic.
"I mean, there isn't much to "add" here - like what would count as a substantive addition, another "yeah, that's really terrible" comment to add to the Nader pile-on you've got going?" See, I don't think most people here where acting like its 'really terrible.' It seems like everyone just agrees that Nader is old, crusty, and irrelevant. I don't think anyone here was genuinely offended. Either way, I'm glad we could agree on you being an asshole! Kidding! I still enjoy your posts.
Great - Smith nailed Nader for making a point using racially charged terms. But what has said about those he works with on a daily basis? Consistency is key. Cheap points on the racial sensitivity card the day after a historic election isn't too hard to do. Nader is preaching for more economic equality in this country. Regardless of whether you like him personally, his message is important. On race issues, I'll take Nader over Smith and the FNC cretins any day.
And now that I'm thinking about it a little more, what's so great about being an "Uncle Sam," anyway? Uncle Sam is a propaganda tool for military recruiting. Somehow, I doubt that Ralph wants that for Obama. Nader's statement was thoughtless all around.
Shep Smith isn't Sean Hannity. They might share the same network, but that doesn't mean that they share the same views. Worth noting that Fox News' overall ideology is closer to Hannity's than it is to Smith's.
Steve, I find that 'civilian security force' comment to be disconcerting as well, but then again, it doesn't seem to be a fleshed-out idea or policy; I suspect he must have meant something like the Peace Corps for domestic help, but I really don't know. I don't see it as an important part of his platform or something that will go somewhere. I'm glad you're giving Obama the benefit of the doubt otherwise. I'm a non-liberal (I'd say libertarian-leaning centrist? whatever) supporter of Obama; I'd like to see him bring his seriousness and ability to the office. I voted for Nader back in 2000 soon after I got my citizenship; I was 20. I've since regretted it, but now I am positively ashamed of it. His entire worldview is absolutely wrong, and in my view he represents everything that is wrong with the Far Left. They simply misunderstand the world. It's malice and prejudice and unthoughtfulness masquerading as compassion. That's the problem, as well, with communism - at its core it is based on the idea that some fixed groups of people will always be at war with and oppress other groups, and that bloody genocidal "revolution" is not only necessary but desireable in itself in order to bring a righteous order forth. It's Manichean and it's millenarianism of a different sort. Not to say Nader is a commie exactly, but he suffers from a similar set of delusions. This too will be something that President Obama (that feels great to say) might be able to help us move beyond. Solutions not -isms.
sorry - i meant to address that to scott, not steve, although i also share steve's sentiment of regret for ever having supported ralph nader. the system sucks sometimes, but he and his ilk are no alternative.
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Time's up, indeed. Nader has been out for Nader alone for some years now but even so, I'm amazed that he sunk this low last night. When the blonde lady on FOX finds you despicable, well, you're cooked.
Good riddance.
I miss the old consumer advocate, sure, but this guy can go.
Posted by Anne in Jersey City | November 5, 2008 4:14 PM