Zawahiri needs to keep Malcolm's name out his mouth. But more to the point, fools need to retire words like "house Negro" and "Uncle Tom." Not because they're mean, but because so few black folks actually talk that way anymore. There are many ways of insulting your fellow blacks for all manner of offenses. It's an insult to any black person whose ever played the dozens to have these weak cliched terms out there. I know we can do better than "House Negro." Personally I prefer, "Sucka Nigga," but hey that's just me. Also, in terms of other people, I've always loved "self-loathing Jew." Whenever I hear term I understand what it must feel like to be white and want to call yourself a nigger. I mean it's so poetic and grand--not fool, not idiot, not chump but "self-loathing Jew." Awesome.
« The Rucker got a problem this year... | Main | This really won't end well... » We are all House Negroes now19 Nov 2008 04:00 pm Comments (70)
As a self-respecting victim of white liberal guilt, I'm gonna leave this one alone... 
I liken this to the moment when Dr. Evil put his pinky to his lip and asked for $1 million and everyone laughed in his face. We're supposed to be afraid of these jokers? They need to get on the same page.
Do any black people actually say, "play the dozens," anymore? Outside of African American Studies departments, I mean?
TNC, You drop the n-bomb all the time. I do too, but only in the car (Just kidding). I'm wonder, what's your take on the movements to abolish usage of that word all together. The notion being, if I understand correctly, is that usage of that word, even as a term of affection between African-Americans (or between coloreds - i know you love using the most antiquated racial terms for irony purposes), is still destructive and represents a form of bondage. Or something like that. Just wondering
Let's not forget who said this...and not make it about our usuage of these terms. Does anyone think Zawahiri will get traction in the Muslim world with this?
Scuffed-shoed wearing, big eared, warty-nosed, White House big mouth, I dare ya; I double dare ya.
One more thing...let's not get cocky and write this group off just because we haven't heard from them in a while...
As a fellow self-respecting victim of white guilt I'm gonna leave it alone too, and also admit I was mortified that when I heard TNC say "Sucka Nigga" I thought of the ATCQ song of the same name, and then I thought of the "Stuff White People Like" article this morning that didn't mention them, but which sure made me think that I might be a chump for cranking The Low End Theory in my middle aged white person's car this morning during my coffee run. Now I'll let the rest of you respond more substantively...
@hurls, were you reading this before I had status and before I had a pager?
You are killing me! I'm laughing way too hard on the train right now @ sucka nigga. You took the words out of my mouth. Fellow readers, once again you must be schooled on the wisdom of A Tribe Called Quest so you can laugh with me and TNC and then relax.
Jews have been hated so long that the word Jew itself has virtually become a slur. Think about that. It's OK to say "Stephen is Jewish" but if you say "Stephen is a Jew", it sounds offensive. That's why "Self-Loathing Jew" has more impact than, say, "Self-Loathing Kike". No one even knows what "kike" means anymore, you can draw more psychic blood just with "Jew". All you have to do is add an adjective in front of it, e.g., "Dirty", "Self-Loathing", "Cheap", "Fucking", etc. It doesn't work with "black", but it works with "Jew". Sound it out and see.
Ok, everyone's gotta admit this is pretty funny: (from the above ref'd SWPL article) Calling this style of music ‘old school’ is considered an especially apt name since the majority of people who listen to it did so while attending old schools such as Dartmouth, Bard, and Williams College.
What this shows is how radically the rhetoric of anti-American movements has to shift in the post-Bush era. In a sense, bashing Bush was so easy that the anti-Americans got lazy. It was straight-forward to use Bush as a shorthand for everything that was "wrong in America", and in so doing stop explaining to people what those things are, specifically, and why they matter to them. Now the onus is on the Anti-Americans. I'm watching Shelby Steele, who appears possibly drunk, on National Review's Uncommon Knowledge. He is making many of the same points as Zwahiri, as it happens, without the colorful language. He adds to it lecturing me on how I voted for Obama because I was deceived by my desire to feel like I'm generous towards black people. The fact that conservatives listen with respect to such a fundamentally misguided, and likely mentally unstable person (I'm not exaggerating - he clearly has persecution disorder and other delusions), is... troubling.
Come on, TNC. As 'nattyb' stated, you drop the N-word all the time!! Question - Is 'sucka nigga' supposed to be a hipper younger usage of 'house negroe'? I don't see the creativity in 'sucka nigga'; it seems like it was stolen from one-to-many D-List 70's and 80' sitcoms. Now, at least 'house negroe' has a history; it has a meaning. 'Sucka nigga' is just whack! LOL Finally, please for the love of god, RETIRE the 'playing the dozens' phrase. That phrase is reserved for in Black Anthologies ONLY..hehehe
If I was to guess what a 'house muslim' looked like, bin Laden's scrub Zwahiri would qualify. As only a number two, that is.
"What this shows is how radically the rhetoric of anti-American movements has to shift in the post-Bush era." I'm not sure how radical the shift needs to be. It might not have gotten much play in the mainstream media here, but there were folks in the Middle East saying similar stuff about Secretary of State Condi Rice. Being black didn't immunize Rice from anti-American hatred and it won't immunize Obama from it. He will be, after all, the President of the United States.
don't see the creativity in 'sucka nigga'; it seems like it was stolen from one-to-many D-List 70's and 80' sitcoms. Nah. My style is kind fat, reminiscent of a whale.
Well, TNC I knew you would not disappoint and post about this Fool trying his damndest to insult Obama, and if you've listened to the audio clip you'd fall out of your chair with laughter. Anyway, earlier today my ace boon-coon and I were shooting emails back and forth about it. This email thread pretty much sums up how I feel... I told you that he was dumb! His rhetoric (and now I am using words and I said I wouldn’t) sounds almost like a 4 year old trying to lob insults at an adult. Laughable, stupid, preposterous and just damn pitiful! KS Well, I think it is absolutely laughable. This is his attempt to “insult” the man and he looks right foolish trying to do so… From: KS No. I started to use more words to describe him, then I decided he was just not worth the words, either! KS You do not like him very much, do you? mh From: KS He knows absolutely nothing. He is just plain dumb. ks But it is Hilarious!! What does Zawahri know about honorable black Americans? Come on a house negro?!!! mh From: KS I read #2’s comments on O.B. I’m not surprised at his comments. What can be expected from the vitriolic man?????? KS
I still use these terms, house and field negro, when trying to explain the difference between a dog and a cow. For example..: ...If the master got sick, the house Negro would say, "What's the matter, boss, we sick?" We sick! He identified himself with his master more than his master identified with himself. And if you came to the house Negro and said, "Let's run away, let's escape, let's separate," the house Negro would look at you and say, "Man, you crazy. What you mean, separate? Where is there a better house than this? Where can I wear better clothes than this? Where can I eat better food than this?" That was that house Negro. In those days he was called a "house nigger." And that's what we call him today, because we've still got some house niggers running around here. ... cont...
On that same plantation, there was the field Negro. The field Negro -- those were the masses. There were always more Negroes in the field than there was Negroes in the house. The Negro in the field caught hell. He ate leftovers. In the house they ate high up on the hog. The Negro in the field didn't get nothing but what was left of the insides of the hog. They call 'em "chitt'lin'" nowadays. In those days they called them what they were: guts. That's what you were -- a gut-eater. And some of you all still gut-eaters.
Yeah, can't they just say "suck-up" and leave race out of the picture?
You sympathize with the term "Self-loathing Jew"? Ah! Now I understand your backing of Joe Lieberman! Disclosure: I'm a self-irritated Israeli-American.
Tovarisch TNC, you should check with The Field Negro himself, running one of my favorite hangouts (yeah, dinchoo know there were black Russians out in the fields?)
Wow, Al-Qaida is just openly plagiarizing Ralph Nader now. Next they'll be saying that the invasion is unsafe at any speed.
I'm thinking "self-loathing Negro" would be much more to the point than 'sucka nigga' which doesnt hit any of the notes in the chord that "house negro" does.
Seriously... I think is the post-election equivalent of a dirty-pick, possibly even a technical foul. This organization may be alot of things, but stupid is not one of them. They see the excitement over Obama's win, especially within the African nations. Remember they have alot of bases in Africa, which is why GWB created the new AFRICOM; unfortunately, only Germany would host this new Africa-focused military unit. Anyway, this was a tactical move to dampen the excitement over having a 'brotha' in the WH ('post-racial' fooery be damned). I think they fear an allegiance by major African powers to Obama's 'war on terror'. African nations already think of Obama as 'one of theirs'. If, unlike the current POTUS, he can separate the 'soft-power' from the 'hard-power' and use each in the most judicious way, he may very well ne able to build 'the hype' into a sustainable security-based coalition with our African allies.
What's so wonderful about this is its tone-deafness, when Al-Qaeda actually got so much mileage for a while by being wily and being more adept at "message control." Every Muslim "man on the street" who warmed to America even just a little bit since 11/4 just had his opinion of AQ drop, possibly by a lot. Obama's possibly going to slap almost all the remaining shit out of AQ and he'll do it much more efficiently and quietly than the jerkweeds presently installed ever did. And with a smile.
"One more thing...let's not get cocky and write this group off just because we haven't heard from them in a while..." Watched "War Games" last night. Thermonuclear war is something to be scared of. One guy with a home-brew suitcase nuke is not.
Also much as i hate to say it David Alan Grier gets my vote for "self loathing house negro sucka nigga with a show" of the year. How an original cast member of In Living Color, a classic show that did brilliant takes on race, could wait all this time and then become the star of the dumbest, grossest piece of loud-talkin, bug eyed, stereotypical coonery and buffoonery this side of Amos n Andy (or Carlos Mencia) is beyond me. Every time i see a commercial i cringe and pray this shit will get cancelled soon.
I'm watching Shelby Steele, who appears possibly drunk, on National Review's Uncommon Knowledge. He is making many of the same points as Zwahiri, as it happens, without the colorful language. He adds to it lecturing me on how I voted for Obama because I was deceived by my desire to feel like I'm generous towards black people. The fact that conservatives listen with respect to such a fundamentally misguided, and likely mentally unstable person (I'm not exaggerating - he clearly has persecution disorder and other delusions), is... troubling. Shelby Steele is a straight up slave catching coon. Obama's run for the Presidency has unspooled Steele. He turned his back on his previous 15-20 years of writing. He looks at Obama, who made all the OPPOSITE CHOICES of Steele, and is now PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. If you've been shilling that you can't be successful by being attached to the Black community. And, that the Black community wasn't sophisticated enough to accept someone who was a ' Candidate running for _________ who happens to be Black' and low and behold, it actually happens... then what happens to the last 20 years of your life where you've spent disrespecting and denigrating all things Black? Thus is the cornerstone of why Steele has lost it.
House nigga is still appropriate. Sorry but Sucka nigga as a replacement is like calling Mary J. Blige the Queen of Soul.
TNC, "self-loathing Jew" or "self-hating Jew" makes more sense for us. Because it doesn't have any master/slave implications. It just applies to Jews who are ashamed of being Jews because they don't like or identify with Jews or maybe they are afraid of anti-Semitism. They may work against Jewish interestes. There is something akin to house negro called a "court-Jew." Back in the day, when Jews were forced to live in ghettos, there would be one or two Jews that would be allowed to be present at Court (of the King or prince or what have you) while the rest of his bretheren sat in the miserable ghetto. The thing is, because Jewishness is so cultural, you can kinda hate Jews for their culture. Usually, racism is more pure hatred of people because of the color of their skin. So a house negro doesn't necessarily hate blacks (or himself) for the color of their skin. He may, however, have other issues. Sorry if that's all incoherent but i gots to get back to work.
I like self-loathing Jew as well. In fact, I consider myself a self-loathing Jew, and I'm not even Jewish (I am a Irish/Italian Catholic, although I'm often mistaken for a Jew). I also think the term "Jew-face" is very funny, and I use it to piss off a good friend who is black and Jewish who for some reason only considers herself exclusively black. But I don't like SLJ nearly as much as I like the word N-gg-r. Don't get me wrong, I don't use it, even in all-white company. But I want to. Not because I hate blacks, or I think its cool or I want to be black, but because its probably the most dynamic and versatile word in the English language. From one sentence to the next, it can be used to express contempt, fraternity, Love, humor, racial identity, racial inclusion (when honorarily conferred on non-blacks), and countless other feelings and attitudes toward the subject. I can't think of any other word that compares and it kind of sucks that I can't include such an effective word in my arsenal. I could put it to great effect even in my profession(for example at a deposition: "Objection to form...N_gg#r"). I give you black folk credit for taking a word loaded with hate, and making it your own. My only suggestion is that if whites can't use it, PR's can't use it either. That irritates me.
rikyrah writes: "Shelby Steele is a straight up slave catching coon." Devastating! Has anyone noticed the weird sudden flood of black Republicans showing up on the political shows now? Matthews had on this odd cross-eyed guy (not making fun, I didn't catch his name) who was pushing the gospel of Palin worse than Billy Kristol does. Where did all of these guys come from? What sort of strange internal lives do they have?
In rebellion against long responses: Bitch-ass-nigga with some disdain in your voice is a pretty strong insult.
I give you black folk credit for taking a word loaded with hate, and making it your own. Its not a black thing: only gays are allowed to call each fag; only women are allowed to call each other bitch; only Irish are allowed to call each other mick; only Italians are allowed to call each other wop. That's how it is. Stop fighting it. The argument that if women stopped calling each other bitches everyone would as well is just as ridiculous as it is when you interchange the words with black and nigga. Rule of thumb: When in doubt, if you feel like you are going to be in trouble if you say it, dont say it.
Matthews had on this odd cross-eyed guy The cross eyed guy's name is Ron Christie and he is very much a regular on the talk show circuit. I have noticed, as you mentioned, a veritable explosion of black conservatives. Indeed, I think I see more black than white conservatives these days: Christie, Fred Watkins, Michelle Barnard, Amy Holmes, Tara Wall. These are all ubiquitous personalities. It seems to be the golden age for black conservative punditry. I assume its a new Republican strategy for minority reach out.
Zawahiri sounds scared. The first thing that came to mind when I read about his statement this morning was that old Mobb Deep line: You're not a crook son, you're just a shook one. They're dealing with someone who has broad global appeal, a restatement of the American story of meritocracy and isn't a completely ignorant, megalomanical buffoon with daddy issues. Not a good combination for AQ.
Sorry TNC, I disagree (maybe I'm "very old school")--as long as Thomas Sowell, Clarence Thomas, Shelby Steele et al, are still around, "house negro" is still appropriate. What I'm looking for is the equivalent epithet of "house negro" to describe Michele Malkin.
I refer to you the case of Harry Belafonte in re: Colin Powell. (http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/10/15/belafonte.powell/)
John Henry: I don't think any of those words (bitch, WOP, fag,guido, etc.) carries anywhere near the same weight as n_gg_r. Note that I won't write the word n-gger.Don't believe me? Scream any of these words in public and measure the reaction. Then scream n-gg-r. Also, none of these words is ever used to the impressive effect as n-gg-r. They just don't have the same range.
Zack R says: In rebellion against long responses: Bitch-ass-nigga with some disdain in your voice is a pretty strong insult. ------------------------ Classic. But the level of disdain must be correct. Don't overdo it or you'll get into Stinkmeaner-caricature mode. As for myself, I prefer 'Handkerchief Head'. Harkens back to the old days, while reserving respect for the OG's (DuBois, Garvey, etc) who brought dignity to being a 'Negro'. At a minimum, the spelling should be changed to 'Kneegrow' when used to insult.
"What I'm looking for is the equivalent epithet of "house negro" to describe Michele Malkin." TR: Garden Filipina? House coolie? That said my experiences make me think it's not that unusual or even "white" for Filipinos to dislike the Japanese and not be too fond of Mexicans. On the Japanese I think there's a history there, and even a present bigotry, which explains some things. I'm not saying it justifies prejudice understand, but the Japanese were kind of bad to them. My sister lives in Japan and to this day "Filipino" is like a synonym for "prostitute" in that nation. I'm not sure what the Mexican thing is about though, but I think I've heard of it before. On another deal I take it a black person who voted for McCain is just unacceptable, correct?
I don't think any of those words (bitch, WOP, fag,guido, etc.) carries anywhere near the same weight as n_gg_r Oh yeah. I suggest you go to little italy and call everyone you see a guido or a wop. Or, call a black a woman a bitch. Or, if you're black go down to MI and start randomly calling white people redneck. I bet you you're meaning "impressive effect" and their's is totally different.
BTW, I meant Mississippi instead of Michigan. Here's the problem with the bury the word argument. The people who say these words with contempt are not interested in social justice. No matter how much the targets of these words change their behavior, the worst offenders, who were never fair or logical to begin with, are not going to change theirs. So, these groups have decided to disarm the affect of these words.
What this shows is how radically the rhetoric of anti-American movements has to shift in the post-Bush era. In a sense, bashing Bush was so easy that the anti-Americans got lazy. It was straight-forward to use Bush as a shorthand for everything that was "wrong in America", Not so much, their hatred of America was established long before Bush was in office, even before Clinton. They hate America, they hate France, Denmark, the UK. They even hate many of their fellow muslims like the Egyptians and Saudi family. I really don't think people this radical see much difference between Bush and Obama. Both are Jew lovers, infidels, occuppiers of Islamic lands and lead a nation full of hedonists.
John Henry: I'm not trying to bury any word. I was saying how great I think the word is. I just don't want Puerto Ricans to use n-gg-r when I can't. I still disagree with you on whether n-gg-r differs from WOP or bitch. Sure you'll provoke some people by calling them wops or bitches or bitch ass wops or wop ass bitches. But you wouldn't be universally condemned by everyone within earshot for the rest of your life. If Harrison Ford called Halle Berry a bitch I think he'd be criticized harshly, but if he called her a n-gg-er I'm pretty sure he'd lose his career.
I'm puzzled by what is so cool about the term "self loathing jew." There might have been some power to that back when jews were producing most of the content in hollywood but scrupulously obscuring the evidence that they were. But today it seems to primarily be used by more conservative jews to criticize more liberal jews who don't think it is a good thing for Israel to be in a perpetual state of war into the indefinite future. The problem with it is that there doesn't seem to be any sting to the people it is hurled at. Such insults are only effective when they get at something that actually cuts deep. Calling someone an uncle tom or a house negro has the suggestion that one is gaining at the expense of other blacks. If there was not any worry in that direction it would be a pathetic insult. I don't think there are actually a lot of jews out there who are feeling guilty that by not sufficiently demonizing the Palestinians they are harming Israel or jews in general. One good sign of the difference is that the only commentator aboe who claimed to identify with the term was not even jewish. It is hard to imagine someone white claiming to associate with being an uncle tom or a house negro (at least not outside of an Offspring song).
I saw (well, heard) two Italian guys on the train once, calling each other "nigga," and I began to wonder -- wouldn't it be awesome if the word lost so much of its power across the board that it became tame, like a synonym for "dude" or "guy" (I assume, because I don't speak Spanish but I hear this said all the time in an affectionate manner) "cabron"? Then I realized that it would creep me out and upset me anyway. (See? I can't even spell it the "er" way.) But it was a fascinating moment. I felt enlightened. :-D (Tangent: I once dated an Ivorian guy who used to call himself one to upset me. I, er, stopped dating him. [For a variety of reasons, not least of which was, he thought it was happy fun times to upset me.] But that was also kind of fascinating, to be with a black guy who simply did not care, because it wasn't his culture; it wasn't even his language, let alone his damage.)
Lon, You are sort of missing the point. House negro and self-loathing jews are nowhere near perfectly analogous. As I tried hurriedly explain, calling someone a self loathing jew implies that they hate their jewishness, or others' jewishness, or their jewish bretheren, etc. If the charge is accurate, there isn't too much of a reason for it to carry a sting other than to remind the recipient of the charge that they are a Jew. Its not really a metaphor for anything. Self-loathing Jews very much exist in a variety of forms. I'm less familiar with the term house negro, but if it is what you say it is, then there is really no word to clal a jew who is gaining at the expense of other jews. Maybe Court Jew. You don't have to want Israel to be in a state of perpetual war or to demonize Palestinians in order to prevent yourself from falling into the category of self-loathing Jew. However, those Jews who set a double standard for their own people by demonizing Israel while simultaneously glamourizing Palestinian terrorism and Palestinian anti-Semites are usually great candidates for being self-loathing jews.
I thought Omar Epps was the only House Negro. (Since he fired that Mormon guy, anyway.)
Regarding the issue of Al-Qaeda and slavery, back in the mid-1990s there were accusations made on the floor of the UN by, I believe, a Ugandan delegate, that Al Qaeda ran marijuana plantations in southern Sudan worked by child slaves from Uganda. I'm not sure if this was ever substantiated, but it doesn't seem improbable, given what we know about Bin Laden and his crew.
Harrison Ford called Halle Berry a bitch I think he'd be criticized harshly, but if he called her a n-gg-er I'm pretty sure he'd lose his career. Of course, because thats against the rules. You've got to be a member to use the word. Harrison Ford and Sam Jackson would be harshly criticized for using bitch, but Harrison Ford would catch more heat for using nigga. People would give Sam Jackson more latitude.
No we're not all house negroes now. You can't be serious. Condoleeza Rice and Charles Rangel are different, and seen as different by myself and every black person I know, in a meaningful way that accords with Malcolm X's usage of field negro, house negro. The question of where does Obama fall on that spectrum is up for debate. He's not as much a house negro as Condoleeza, I think more of a house negro than Rangel - on this point I have not found a consensus among the Black people I talk to. On the issue of Israel, most politically conscious Black people I know are more sympathetic to Palestinians than either white people in general or Obama. The idea that the story of Israel is a story of the struggle against colonialism and thereby similar to other studies like South Africa and other independence movements in Africa and the post-colonized world is widely accepted by politically aware Black people and rejected by Obama. In 1988 Jesse Jackson had nearly universal support among black people and nobody thought he could actually win. I may be older than you. I'm not sure you even remember that. Obama didn't have that level of support from Black people until after he won states Jackson couldn't come close to winning. If somehow white people were willing to offer a comparable level of support to Jackson, he'd be far more popular than Obama. But they weren't so he isn't. But that takes us back to the issue of Uncle Toms. Barack is not one, but if there is a spectrum he's probably further towards the Uncle Tom pole than Jackson, which is why, given similar levels of perceived political viability, Jackson was far more popular. Most likely Obama is not going to be widely considered an Uncle Tom by black Americans, but he compares badly to Malcolm X on that score and it would be stupid to deny that. If there is a racial dispute in the US as culturally pervasive as the OJ trial in the mid-90s, and Obama is on the white side of the divide, he'll begin being mocked as an Uncle Tom. The late 00s don't seem likely to produce an issue that causes that kind of divide. If this decades does produce such a dispute, Obama is likely to earn himself an Uncle Tom label that Rangel and Jackson would have avoided.
"On another deal I take it a black person who voted for McCain is just unacceptable, correct?" In my house, or in my face...yes. Back to the original matter, I heard the best response to Zawahiri earlier this evening: "House negro? Yes: White House."
Off topic, but what's the deal with Donovan McNabb not knowing that NFL games can end in ties?
TNC, it's funny you write this; the term "self-loathing jew" has always been old and stale for my taste; i have taken to referring to the liebermans and the ari fleischers of the world as "Uncle Jakes." One man's bathtub is another man's gin... Also, I like the idea of Obama responding to AQ a la Morgan Freeman in Lean on Me, brandishing a baseball bat, bein all "House Negro? I'm the HNIC!"
Yeh, I think it was tasteless for Harry Belafonte to use that term, and it was tasteless for Tim Russert to ask that Obama (who hadn't even heard about it) distance himself from Belafonte, and it was tasteless for David Horowitz to try and raise funds from gullible conservatives to deport Belafonte for having said that. But I have no doubt that Belafonte is a passionate, proud, and politically-engaged American whose contempt for the Bushistas comes from concern about the U.S., so it's rather different from Zawahiri's accusations.
Obama's name alone puts him outside the negro discussion. he might be a house or field black - but he ain't no negro... me thinks that malcolm, especially a late malcolm would have been proud of Barack Hussain Obama. It is not like Obama was fighting for the constitution to recognize him as human. he was fighting for the most wealthy and powerful whites who have ever lived to voluntarily accepting him as their leader. and he succeeded. Malcolm would be proud. Back in his days it was considered progress when civil rights organizations were actually spearheaded by blacks and not again whites. Malcolm would be proud and happy.
"No we're not all house negroes now. You can't be serious." Meh, have a drink. It was a joke, based on "We're all Americans now."
Freddiemac, The context you give for court jew goes back to a time when jews there were in an analogous position to that of blacks here, and so court jew does seem to be analagous to house negro. But jews who expect more of other jews are hardly reputiating their jewishness, since they are presuming that for some reason jews are better than non-jews. And, what may fit closer to your example, jews who hold Israel to the standard of an occupying power while holding the palestinians to an occupied power (presumably based on the detail that Israel is currently an occupying power while the palestinians are an occupied power) seem no more self-loathing than do Americans liberals who hold the US to a higher standard in Iraq than they hold Iraqi insurgent groups. And as the suggestion that Joe Lieberman is a self-loathing jew above, the accusation can apparently be hurled by any jew at any other jew they don't like, since that one is politically in the opposite direction from your usage. I suspect the poetic nature of self-loathing jew comes more from Woody Allen or Phillip Roth and the comic stereotype of the jew always with a psychiatrist and mother issues. But that is largely a jewish comic created image which kind of undercuts its sting. When one gets to create the humor around ones one group it seems it is never going to sting the way that having perceptions of your culture created by another group does.
How many times are we going to re-hash what appears to be the same old "is he black enough" argument?
I'm pretty sure the actual origin of "self-hating Jew" in this country would be with people changing their name from Steinberg to Stone and getting nose jobs in order to get jobs in white shoe law firms. People who are ashamed of their Jewish heritage and try to erase it from their lives. These days, "self-hating Jew" is used almost exclusively by zionists to mean "not zionist enough". It's an attempt to subsume all of Judaism and Jewish heritage into modern, state zionism, such that rejecting zionism is tantamount to reject Judaism as a whole. That's a very, very recent attitude. But I've found that, in the US at least, support for modern, state zionism is pretty much universal across all Jewish institutions (synagogues, think-tanks, political organizations, charities, etc). I'm Jewish. I'm not a zionist. In fact, I'm strongly opposed to modern, state zionism. If anyone accuses me of being a "self-hating Jew", I tell them that the reasons I hate myself have nothing to do with my being Jewish.
The estimable Juan Cole likewise roasts Zawahiri, and, like AliHajiSheik above, he thinks Zawahiri is running scared. But for accuracy’s sake, Prof. Cole notes: ‘In the video, al-Zawahiri does pointedly refer to Malcolm X's distinction. But he speaks in Arabic of "`abid al-bayt," "the house slave," and does not use the word "Negro" (which the al-Sahab translators are rendering 'zinji.') The connotations and implications are much the same, but it is not exact to say that al-Zawahiri used the phrase "house Negro" himself.’
He's not a house negro . . . he's a White House negro.
In fact, I consider myself a self-loathing Jew, and I'm not even Jewish... Laborlibert, sometimes it's better to keep your stupid thoughts to yourself.
How many times are we going to re-hash what appears to be the same old "is he black enough" argument? You know what? Now that election day is over, maybe we should re-hash that argument. Before election day I personally and I think a lot of other Black people didn't want to focus on race with regard to Obama for fear of that focus costing him votes. That's what irked me so much about Rev. Wright's appearances and giving interviews at one point during the primaries. It's what Chicago clergy was talking about when they admonished that right or wrong, Wright "should keep his eyes on the prize" and I pretty sure the motivation for Wright moving to rural Ghana for the rest of the campaign. But now we can talk about it publicly. Wright can come back if he wants. Obama is the President. That's a big thing and if he's not Jackson, Jackson isn't president. Obama did what he had to do to give Black people a Black face on the poster of Presidents. If a degree of selling out is required to do that, it is more than acceptable for almost every Black person I've discussed this with. Obama did what he had to do, which is always fully respectable as long as it is clear what the objective was. But on the other hand, where is Obama's place in the Black community? I guess we have to wait to see policies and positions but we can discuss it now in a way I was hesitant to before the election.
On the issue of Israel, most politically conscious Black people I know are more sympathetic to Palestinians than either white people in general or Obama. The idea that the story of Israel is a story of the struggle against colonialism and thereby similar to other studies like South Africa and other independence movements in Africa and the post-colonized world is widely accepted by politically aware Black people and rejected by Obama I don't even think I'd limit it to politically conscious Black people. Most Black folks I know, on a basic level, believes there should be a 2 state solution.
With regard to black attitude towards Israel, I think at least in the case of someone like Wright there is an additional reason for seeing Israel in colonial terms based on Israel's willingness to work apartheid South Africa. Not to surprisingly, jews tend to look at that relationship on the grounds that Israel was being singled out for ostracization because of the arab boycott. So while the apartheid government was wretched, it was only natural for Israel ot look for allies where it could find them. And from a jewish perspective that is pretty reasonable. I think blacks are more likely to begin to evaluate the link with the evil nature of the apartheid government, and to evaluate Israel's willingness to interact with them in those terms. Also quite a reasonable perspective. But since each group, as groups do, is likely to begin to look at the question from what wrongs are being done to people like themselves, the evaluations come out rather different. And the mistakes only come in from thinking that the other group is motivated by anything like what ones own group is motivated by.
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Forgive me for looking for irony where it may not exist, but isn't this dude a member of a large subset of people (Islamists) who defend a culture of slavery in Africa?
It reminds me why we still fight.
Posted by rlgordonma | November 19, 2008 4:15 PM