I'm happier for Santogold than Jay--dunno if I'm feeling the flow. What do we think?
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The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Copyright © 2009 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
Copyright © 2009 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
B R O O K L Y Y wearing a Yankee's cap? Really?
I really want to like this... not quite there yet.
Wasn't really down with "Victory" either... Jay seems to be returning to the Kingdom Come-era Emo Old Guy Vibe. Can't say it's my favorite iteration of Hov's rap persona.
Not a Jay-Z fan at all TNC. Mos is BKs finest. If I've bumped two of his songs eva that's a lot. He's a marketing and biz genius but its mostly just wack hip-hop for the suburbs. I wouldn't listen to above track twice. :P
-Mike
Mike, I live in Detroit (in the city proper), and Jay seems to be a pretty popular around these parts. If by "suburbs" you mean "white folks"...again, the record doesn't back that up.
As for the track above, it's pretty good, though I agree with the sentiment that it could use more Santogold and less Hova. Between this and those Bud Lime ads, Santogold is on the cusp of a breakthrough.
i generally dig jay. this one sounds a little off though. sample/vocal hook - a bit too plain, a bit too repetitive. and it sounds like he's trying to sound like weezy. i do like the production other than the vocals. it'll probably grow on me though.
I dunno Jonathan, while it definitely had its low points, I liked his Kingdom Come stuff, and I liked History too, if that's the song you're referring to.
As for this song, his first verse was weak, but I liked his second verse. Santogold was good too.
Mike, while I agree that Dante is very very good, would you honestly not bump songs like this?
guess I'm in the minority here, but I love this song. It's nice to see Kanye making a track that is a more classic banger-style beat, and I think jay sounds hungry as hell.
I also think it's a little silly to say Jay is hip hop for the suburbs while simultaneously praising mos. I love mos, but have you actually talked to people who live in urban centers? I'm not even talking about the white/black divide here... I mean, maybe in 2000 when jay was big pimpin, but this is post blueprint, post mtv unplugged. I'm not the biggest jay fan, but even i recognize the respect he commands.
The flow felt a little choppy in spots and not in a good way. Wasn't terrible, wasn't his best.
Sry Hassan, didn't mean just "white folk" was more to mean the uninitiated outside of the NYC bubble. I'm an unrepentant hip-hop snob who grew up in east vs west times. If it dosen't bump for my hood, it just dosen't bump. Nas' Ether sums it up best. :P
Doc, that link didnt come through...passame one more time?
Yeah "History", sorry for the confusion. I just can't see how anyone could compare Jay's current efforts with his classic material. This ain't "Where I'm From", far more of a BK anthem there...
Flow is experimental, trying to a bit Jamaican (a la Wayne on the intro to Drought 3--heat).
I'm the biggest Blackstar fan there is, that's one of the great albums, but Mike you're nuts if you think Mos is BKs finest. Has Mos put out 5 classic albums? Can he switch his flow like Jay? Can he make bangers like Jay consistently and get a whole club going? Can he get 20K people in an arena to carry a track for him without a beat and without doing the lyrics himself?
Jay, and I think TNC will like the comparison, is hip-hops Emmit Smith. He shows up every damned season, and gets 5 yards a carry every time. Always going forward. Mos is more a Devin Hester: when he's doing his one thing, he's sick, but he's not an every down player.
@MikeCee, dude I don't know what you're smoking Jay is one of the best MCs ever. If you don't like him I seriously question your taste. Next you're gonna tell me Biggie was just alright.
As for this song, I really like it. I downloaded it a few days ago. It's not one of Jay's best ever but that's a pretty high bar to use.
Heart of the City (Ain't No Love)
That's the link I was trying to give you before, Mike. Must've messed the html up.
I agree with Jonathan in that his latest doesn't compare with his classic material. I, however, don't think that his more recent stuff is bad.
And I agree with Joel that Dante can't switch it up like Jay, and etc., but I can't agree with 5 classics. Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint were definite classics in my book. Black Album was near that level. American Gangster, et al. were below that, with American Gangster being better than the rest imo, but my opinion on AG is less concrete than Jay having two classics and one near-classic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QePjIIBI-sI
Apparently html really doesn't like me: that link is Heart of the City.
Jay-Z is so whack these days.
@MikeCee
don't mean to shit in your yard or anything, but u grew up in the east-coast west-coast era and missed Jay?? Now, im young, so anyone passed Kid & Play is hard for me to relate to...but Jay? His first album is and for ever will be a classic...I love Nas and Mos, they're my generation of MCs, i would never speak ill of them...but u cant sleep on Jay's career like that... he's not Puffy if u mean by business-man. What he should have done is realize that after maybe Blueprint 2, he should have brought it down a notch, not over-do it so much with one album almost every year...party because the producing has been subpar. Same with Nas, maybe be more selective with what they put out there...Nas has definetly been better than Jay at selecting time and when to release...and what to release...but they "old" now, they should think about their legacy...u don't want to go out like a old punched-out boxer...all busted up!
"Mos is BKs finest."
I only wish that were true. Black on Both Sides, yes. The New Danger and True Magic, not so much.
Haven't heard this yet, but I'm checking it out as soon as I get home.
TNC, I think you already know my opinion on the matter: http://walkasking.blogspot.com/2008/12/brooklyn-go-hard.html
With respect to "I really wanna like this, but it sounds a bit off at first," I think it's important to come to grips with the idea that this is how Jay raps now. That is, would we really want our favorite artists to stay the same? We must become aware that a release is markedly different in stylethan previous versions in order to make assessments beyond relativism.
The song is decent, his second verse is strong. Not sure why some people are using this song as a spring board though to start the career debate.
Nevertheless, I'm game. You can easily pull lines or versus, some full songs, less whole albums where another rap artist has proven to perhaps best Jay on lyrical prowess, or whatever other measuring stick you want to use. But looking at this objectively. Catalog versus catalog. Whole entire career versus another's. The quality, quantity and the versatility. It's really not that close. It reminds me of - "There's never been a ni$$a this good for this long, this hood or this pop, this hot or this strong . . ."
I still like this better than "History" and a good portion of Kingdom Come... though I wouldn't rate it as highly as some of the better American Gangster material. I like it about the same as "Jockin' Jay-Z", maybe a little less.
marc: Isn't that a great line? And it isn't even boast. He's the most accomplished MC period. That line's so good I want to say it when I've got my swagger on, and I'm a white lawyer.
I recognize he's one of the best of all time by any metric but his voice just fucking rubs me the wrong way. And I understand why people think he's the best, I really do, and I would never argue against that. Hell, I hate his voice and still love about a dozen of his tracks.
ty: Funny. I feel. No BS. I do the same thing . . . and I'm a black lawyer.
Jay Z is jy ridiculous (note: that's a good thing) and it's clear that some of the criticism he gets is cause folks just ain't hearing the music. He asked on Renegade, Do you listen to the music or do you just skim through it, and it's clear folks is skimming. Of all rap cats, Jay is one of few that has allowed his sound to mature and develop as he has.
And Mos, outside of Black Star, the cat is pure unfulfilled potential.
I love watching Jay-Z mature and experiment. Jay is a different man than he was back in the day. . . reminds me of MJB's growth. At first it was difficult for fans to adjust to the person she had grown into, but in time we learned to appreciate it. Just like Andre 3000. Growth is good. LL comes to mind of someone who is struggling to adapt.
PS- As an at home mom in TN, its great to have a place to appreciate the great artform that is HIP HOP.
Isn't Brooklyn full of yuppies now? I mean I know authenticity is gone, but seriously Brooklyn goes about as hard as Westchester these days.
Hilarious! What a bunch of whack comments. Shit's hot, son.
Meanwhile, cats on the Atlantic: "well, Jay Z's prowess... blah blah blah"
The Atlantic stays soft.
this version of the original is the sh*t:
http://rcrdlbl.com/artists/Santogold/track/Shove_It_Switch_Remix
You need to be playin that new clipse mixtape.
http://www.complex.com/blogs/2008/12/01/download-clipses-play-cloths-mixtape-now
As long as we're talking about Brooklyn hip-hop, everyone needs to pick up Heltah Skeltah's "D.I.R.T." Best album of the year. Easily.
I am far from a hip hop expert. I don't have my "ear to the streets" or anything like that. But this song is solid. Jay has definitely made some garbage in his day, but he is on fire lately. He has a legitimate claim for being ONE OF the greatest of all time.
Been lurking for a minutue but its time to come out of the shadows...this song was so so (minus the def). The beat and Santo went hard--Jay not so much. Out of a million subjects to talk about, he chose to spit about how he went from broke to crack to rap......again. At this point Jay is like the republican party...nothing new to say and no new ways to say it. And btw mos' song "Brooklyn" (with the Roys Ayers sample) is a better BK anthem but Jay is BK's finest.
Meh. I'll take SI's finest or Queens' finest over BK.
I like this track. I'm a big fan of Jay so anything he's on I'm usually down with. Jay's had better verses but he's also had worse. As far as the Kingdom Come Album and the Old Guy Vibe comment, I loved that album. Maybe it's cause I'm getting older my self but I don't know why everyone was knocking it. Probably because it was sandwiched in between 2 amazing albums, The Black Album and American Gangster. If you look at that album by itself though it's damn good.
don't like this one? just switch tracks.
With so many different flows
This ones for this song
The next one i'll switch up
This one will get bit up
Yall buggin, Jay came with it on this track. IMO this track coul've used LESS santogold, she was great on the hook but her flow sounded to punk rock. Yall don't know what yall want from the guy, he rappin too emo, too hood, etc. LOL can't please you guys. And I'm a bigger fan of Nas, I just realize that there is a lack of quality music and I appreciate the little I get. Basically this track is FIRE! Who more Brooklyn than Jay? c'mon now....
i can't speak to whether it's for the "suburbs" (whatever that means); but it's hard to think of another rapper whose phrasing is as consistently magical and surprising as jay-z's. it's like billie holiday or john coltrane or louis armstrong or keith richards or john lennon. jay's phrasing is not just in the pocket, it creates a pocket.
This song is dope as fuck. LOL @ Mos being better than Jay.
The 2nd verse has some really slick lines.
I father, I Brooklyn Dodger them,
I jack, I rob, I sin, Ahh man,
I'm Jackie Robinson,
except when I run base, I dodge the pen,
Lucky me, luckily, they didnt get me
Now when I bring the nets, I'm the black Branch Rickey,
From Brooklyn corners, burning branches of sticky
Spread love, Biggie, Brooklyn, hippie,
I pity the fool with jewels like Mr T,
with no history in my borough, they borrow,
with no intentions of returning tomorrow
For the people saying this song is trash...You guys are bugging, this is another classic Jay-Z song...What's going with peoples mind these days, think weezy f baby got you herbs brained washed..Bet all you guys love plies as well
the vocals were a little weak at first, but the video made a nice use of typography.
HAS JAY RESORTED TO A LIL WAYNE IMPERSONATION !??!?!