The Congressional Black Caucus speaks on Prop 8
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
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TNC- please tell me you're going to address Andrew Sullivan's commentary yesterday on Bush, Warren, AIDS and Prop 8.
Representatives Johnson and Lewis hit the nail on the proverbial head. I couldn't have said it better than John Lewis. As a black gay man, it is sometimes painful to listen to the obfuscating that takes place on issues of homosexuality and the black community. So it is refreshing to hear positions like Rep. Watson's quietly and forcefully countered by positions like Rep. Johnson and Rep. Lewis.
Thanks for that clip. It was really good to see and hear.
Man oh Man! Every time i hear rep. Lewis i get blown away, he could be talkin' about a bathroom break and he'd have my ears. I really wish the swedish parlament would have a representative with that kind of pathos and calmness! The man is a national treasure...
Great clip, and I am glad that we saw Rep. Watson and Rep. Lewis speak on the issue of discrimination against gays. I though that Rep. Watson did raise a good point when she said that if you compare the current movement of gay rights to the civil rights movement of blacks in the 60s...it will fall on deaf ears in the black community. Those comparisons will not rally black ppl to the cause gay rights. Having said that, gay rights is a civil rights issue and gays should not be banned from being able to marry.
It is important for African Americans to rally against discrimination against gays. More black ppl need to understand how wrong it is to deny someone their rights based on personal religious beliefs. I also think that there needs to be a bridge built within the black community and the gay community...there is a lot of tension that needs to be eased.
I appreciate you posting this, TC, I hadn't seen it.
It's worth noting that Lewis made a similar impassioned plea for gay rights on the floor of the House during the debate of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act. The fact that that video, featuring a lion of the Civil Rights Movement, wasn't part of the campaign against Prop 8 in California is astounding to me.
No to Prop 8. But yes to gay outreach towards the black community. The biggest mistake the gay people made was thinking that black people would see their civil rights as somehow intertwined with the gay community. To a large extent that was their fault. If Barack loses a state like West VA but has failed to campaign there that is his fault. You can't expect people to just simply understand your position. You have to reach out to them.
If the No on Prop 8 people were smart I would think they would reach out to Congressman Lewis is is respected Nation wide and ask him to perhaps do some speaking or maybe write some letters on their behalf. That guy is powerful!
Coates are you going to his Sullivan over the head with that clip or will it just be a tap on the shoulder?
Man! Congressman Johnson is one deep dude! I want to see that guy run for Senate or Governer of Georgia. He has a wonderful way of cutting through the differences in the details and finding language that achieves common ground between people. Kind of like Obama, but more down-to-earth; Johnson has this wonderful eloquence of common speech. 'Everybody wants somebody.' Beautiful.
Hank Johnson is my congressman. And I am thankful for him.
As for Johnson's future in politics outside of his current house seat, I'm afraid he just has no chance. This is the south, after all, and he's a Buddhist. The continued struggle for gay rights down here proves the point that though we're working through our race issues, we've got a long way to go with regards to religion.
Lewis I knew he is great; this dude Johnson was a very nice surprise.
Probably seen it 4 times now...Dalton, your'e one lucky bastard. "One of the things that people like to do, is kind of partner up..." its so simple...its so profoundly deep...
How can southerners like Johnson and Lewis get this so right while a Californian like Watson waffles? Is it a male/female thing?
L.A. County went for Prop 8, I think 50.2% to 49.8%. Very nearly split down the middle. But I saw a map that broke down the margin of victory for either direction precinct-by-precinct. The differences between different neighborhoods was quite stark. It looked very much like there were some areas that were hip to gays and some that simply weren't. Basically the yes votes were all the working-class areas, including most of the black and Hispanic areas, plus a few conservative wealthy areas like Palos Verdes. The noes carried the liberal areas on the Westside, Hollywood, etc., and notably the highly-educated areas like Pasadena and Claremont.
But I think it points to a big strategic mistake by the No on 8 people. Almost all of the County is Democratic, and I think the No on 8 campaign assumed a simplified liberal/conservative model of the electorate, assuming they'd get the votes of the heavily Democratic working-class areas. But they were wrong. The gay rights campaign needs to realize that preaching to the choir won't be enough; they need to reach out to minorities and other working-class people to convince them that the struggle for equal rights doesn't end with breaking down racial or ethnic barriers.
I do not approach this topic from a religious standpoint but as one of the Black Yes on 8 voters from LA County I simply disagree with everyone here....
People make the argument that a stable gay relationship is just as good as a stable heterosexual one. I can see that argument. However...
I think children growing up in a gay household is as harmful to their sensibilities (i.e. - thinking that it is acceptable and normal) as children growing up in a household where the parents are swingers or the hetero parent has a different man or woman in their bed every week.
Courts take away parental rights for that kind of behavior... But we are supposed to think that children growing up in a gay household is ok?
Black people know first hand how dysfunctional family units can destroy a community. If we redefine marriage as being between essentially between anyone and anyone, what further damage do we want to do to an institution already on the decline in this country?
Man In The Middle
There are kids who grow up in a household with homosexual parents and they turn out fine. Of course things are not perfect, but no household is perfect. The parents do have to sit down and explain to their kids why things are different but the kids themselves feel loved, and wanted which is exactly the kind of household foster children need.
I don't understand that argument that kids growing up with 2 gay parents will lead to automatic failure of that child and their upbringing. If the parents are sane, they care for the kids, rear them right, and show them love and affection, what is so wrong with that?
ManInTheMiddle-
You just compared a stable homosexual relationship (marriage) to swinging and whoring around. That is clearly a disconnect we have in this debate, or simply a symptom of ignorance. Maybe you have to actually know a committed gay couple to see that the stereotypes you assume of this group of people are false.
As pretty much everyone in this thread has alluded to, outreach is incredibly important. I think that stereotypes are allowed to exist until they are confronted with reality. The areas that voted Yes on 8 probably have a very small or segregated population of homosexuals. The exposure that these areas have to this culture is very limited, and therefore they are informed by their assumptions.
In regards to the Male/Female thing that Daniel asked a few comments up, I was directed to this Op-Ed in the NYtimes that has a unique take on that issue. I'm not a member of the African-American, or the Religious community, so I have no clue if this is correct or even close to being rational, but it was nonetheless, unique.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/29/opinion/29blow.html?_r=2&sq=Blow%20Black%20Gay&st=cse&adxnnl=1&scp=1&adxnnlx=1228410240-nKnxLjv9rvidsJu+DWyboQ
I have two problems with that argument, MitM.
First, I agree that being a swinger or bringing a different person home every night are both immoral ways to live and would be detrimental to a child. And yet they're both perfectly legal ways to live. So the comparison doesn't really work. Is the law saying that swinging or bringing home somebody different every night is OK just because they're not against the law?
Second, swinging and promiscuity are things people *do*. Being gay is something that people *are*. If I were to disregard my morals, I might become debauched and do those things. But I'm straight; being gay is not something I even have any temptation toward doing. If I completely lost my moral compass and did every debauched thing that ever came into my mind, I would not become gay.
Being gay is hard-wired into the brains of some people. That is simply the way they are, the way I am straight. It is not something they are because they were told it was OK. Being gay is not a choice.
Theoretically, at least, you could say, "fine, you're gay. Just never perform any gay acts." But that's just cruel. Gay people form loving relationships with other people, just like you and I do. They want to get married for the same reasons we do. To condemn that just seems inhumane.
I have several responses to those comments directed at mine..
Let me start off by saying that I disagree with the homosexual lifestyle or acts. I think that within itself is unnatural. Regardless of whether people are born gay or grow into one, I feel that is no different from a mental illness or adopting immoral behavior habits. This is why I used the whoring comparison. My position on 8 is due to the fact that I do not want society to legitimize homosexuality as an alternative to heterosexuality. It has been slowly creeping this way for some time and I believe homosexual marriage is really the last barrier.
I cringe at those who call this a civil rights issue because no one is saying that gays do not have a right to equal housing, employment, access to public facilities, etc. as blacks were denied back in the day. What this issue is REALLY about is full public acceptance of gays as true equals.
So I do not believe that kids who grow up in a gay household will turn out jacked up.. That wasn't my point. My point was that those kids would grow up thinking that being gay is as natural and normal as being straight. What? Will their parents teach their kids that being straight is normal and optimal and being gay isn't? Of course not.
OUTREACH. This whole notion of if the gay community just outreaches to the black community or to those who would support Prop 8 is absurd. So if the gay community writes out some pamphlets and does some PSAs for the black community, magically the up to 70% of us will decide the error of our ways and switch opinions? This isn't some issue like AIDS or obesity where education could make a difference. Black people voted for this because of long held convictions! They voted for this because of the religious reinforcements they get every Sunday. I don't use the religious argument because people use religion to support any of their dumb and dangerous ideas. So in case you get any wild ideas about me, I am an estatic Obama supporter, vote Dem 90% of the time, not a conservative, and not an avid church goer.
To me the true compromise on this issue is if the gov't gets out of the marriage biz altogether and only recognizes civil unions.. if u are gay or straight. Only churches would have the power to marry.
Once again, John Lewis demonstrates his power as a leader, his amazing stature as a statesman. Bravo.
Diane Watson, though she has been against bans of same-sex marriage in the past, seems to have moved into the waffle zone. Her only firm position was to dismiss comparisons with the African American civil rights struggle. (OK! We get that already!) Disappointing.