For instance, I saw this story today headlined "Many Insisting Barack Obama Is Not Black." When I read the nut graff, I thought I had a winner:
Any time I see race used in the vicinity of the words like "crescendo" or "shattered assumptions," one word pops in my head--Payday. I thought I'd just write up a quick post showing how the unwillingness of White America to accept Obama as black, demonstrated that racism had truly wormed its way into all of their black hears. Then I'd mix up some Thug Passion, and invoice the Atlantic for $1000. It was going to be lovelyA perplexing new chapter is unfolding in Barack Obama's racial saga: Many people insist that "the first black president" is actually not black.
Debate over whether to call this son of a white Kansan and a black Kenyan biracial, African-American, mixed-race, half-and-half, multiracial _ or, in Obama's own words, a "mutt" _ has reached a crescendo since Obama's election shattered assumptions about race.
But, then I actually read the article, and from what I can tell there are only two people in the story--one of them being some dude writing into a local Florida paper--who actually constitute this crescendo. And that's when I realized I couldn't write my post, that I wouldn't be a getting a check from the Atlantic.
Which leads me to my real point, here. White folks--we have a problem. Seriously, how can I run a blog when you won't conform to the two-dimensional caricatures laid out for you by reputable news organizations like AP? What am I supposed to do now?
Hey, I know! I'll fashion a career attacking lazy-ass journalism, authored by reporters who've written the nut-graph and headline before they've even picked up the phone. I don't even have to do any excoriating! These guys parody themselves! Oh man, Thug Passion all around!
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
There aren't enough hours in the day.
Blogging pays $1,000 a post!!!!
Don't give up so easily, if you decide you finally need that 42" plasma, I know plenty of crazy white people (even related to some of them) who will give you plenty to write about.
You may have to go undercover. Whiteys are getting a lot more stealth about when we choose to talk about black folks. We're improving our euphamisms. Doing more research. This Obama thing - it's like a guy can't say some totally ignorant shit in the context of a regular water cooler conversation without being called out, written up, or worse - accused of voting for McCain/Palin.
Quick, go back and rewrite that Rice article of yours, now that we're in a "post-racial" era and we've elected a Black President.
Obama Elected President - Nation heals all racial wounds and removes any and all reasons for continued....ahem..."complaining" from Blacks.
This is essentially the meme some are trying to paint. If you can't make yourself a living debunking such foolery then I have woefully overestimated you as a writer. Something tells me I don't have to worry about this.
Coates
You forgot to mention the Doonesbury cartoon that was further "proof" that many people question Obama's blackness.
That was the moment I stopped frowning will reading the article and started laughing my ass off. Because really, what else is there to do with a "serious" article about our nations next President that uses a cartoon as a "source"?
I have to admit I was looking forward to your take on the article anad seeing you ride out the author and as usual, you did not dissappoint.
I think the $1K is for the print article. In other words, in today's writing market, being a leading intellectual pays about as much per word as being a pulp sci fi writer did back in the 50s/60s.
Time to get your liquor license, TNC, and start pouring that beer!
You're better than I. I didn't bother reading past the nut graf, only because I thought we'd settled it: dude is what he (and his wife) calls himself. Black.
And you'd think with the job market going the way it is, journalists would actually try a little harder, right?
This is such a non-story. There are real conversations to be had about race in America, but this just isn't one of them.
I honestly thought the article was published in The Onion at first. What journalists in their right mind would actually use that headline?
Of course, that article is not as ridiculous as this one on the lack of Southeners in Obama cabinet, IMO. Really? They've ran out of "not enough women, not enough minorities" stories this fast? This is what they are reduced to now?
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1208/16563.html
What goes in a Thug Passion and will drinking one give me street cred?
A Thug Passion sounds like some not recommended combination of Cognac and grapefruit juice.
Peter
You must have missed the article while you were at Politico about the "growing outrage" over Obama comparing himself to President Lincoln. They are REALLY putting out a great product over there now adays.
"I'll fashion a career attacking lazy-ass journalism, authored by reporters who've written the nut-graph and headline before they've even picked up the phone."
Actually, a great idea for a blog. And perhaps a real money maker. And deeply satisfying to boot. Maybe Jon Stewart could give you spot on the Daily Show. The segment could be titled as above: "Lazy-Ass Journalism Authored by Reporters Who've Written The Nut Graph Before They've Even Picked Up The Phone." Can you see it? Ha!
A former coworker of mine emailed me a picture of the White House painted black. Get it? Get it?!?!
I told him not be an ass, but I doubt he listens to me, so I can hook you up if you need something to write about.
"Many Insisting Barack Obama Is Not Black"
.... but only until the day he does something they don't like.
I'm getting tired of the gratuitous mutt reference. AFAIK, Obama used it only once when he was joking about the puppy. Some people have latched on to that throwaway comment and now want to use it against Obama to advance their own point of views.
Does Thug Passion tastes like Alize?
TNC...if you only would do that...i would buy your every piece of work...and i would read them while drinking Thug Passion...as authored by Tupac..
http://www.drinksmixer.com/drink667.html
sgwhiteinfla,
No, I didn't miss that headline, I just didn't click on it to preserve my sanity. Now you made me actually read it. Damn you, sgwhiteinfla!
The writers do know that Sean Wilentz hates Obama's guts, right? They did go through the trouble of Googling the various horrible things he's said and written about Obama, right? They do understand that his opinion on this might be a bit biased, and might not be based entirely on his reputation as a presidential historian, right? Yes, they did mention he's an Obama skeptic, but apparently that doesn't seem to trouble them at all about writing an article based almost entirely on his opinion. No sir, who cares if he hates Obama and has written extensively on how much he hates Obama, he's a historian, therefore we should believe him.
Honestly, reading such hilarious 'journalism' gives me hope as an aspiring writer...
If that writer can get space in the mainstream press with that bullshit, there's hope for me yet.
Well, if you need some fodder, here I go:
I don't consider Obama black to the extent that blackness is an absolute. After all, I know his parentage and therefore know him to be biracial. Now, I don't object to people using the shorthand "first black president" since he is the first president of significant black heritage and this is important.
Also, I accept that he considers himself "African-American" since that is part of his heritage. Much in the same way that I might say I'm Irish-American although I also have Italian and British blood. To the extent that he considers himself "black", again assuming that that is an absolute term, I find this offensive as a white person (to be clear I am not aware that he has ever said he considers himself black or if he did he would consider it an absolute term). To embrace one aspect of your identity while denying that portion of yourself that is white (or any color or ethnicity) is to reject the unrecognized portion as unworthy. It is to be ashamed of it. Implicit in this rejection is the notion that the rejected part is inferior or undesirable. From this perspective, I can see why white people would be a bit peeved by the "first black president" majority and would want to remind them that Obama is also white.
You can add that small bit to the "crescendo."
Because TNC has admitted to writing these bogus trend stories in the past, I would like to know this - how many examples or anecdotal evidence do you guys need before you can proclaim something a "trend"? For some reason, I always thought the minimum number is 3. That Politico story on the growing outrage over Obama comparing himself to Lincoln fails even this bare minimum requirement - it only cited 2 people. It's not even a bogus trend story - it's two guys with a grudge, basically. If your story can't even meet the basic requirement for a bogus trend story, I don't even know how to classify it. The "I can't find a third guy to support my story" story?
Perhaps this is payback for all of the white pontificators who made a living telling black people how fucked up they are being displaced by black pontificators telling black people how fucked up they are.
this was hilarious ....
Please, please, please don't go post-racial on us, TNC. I'm a white dude, and I would be lost if I didn't get my daily dose of laughing at you laughing at me laughing at you laughing at me.
Do people still drink Thugs Passion? I thought that was more of a 90s thing.
"To the extent that he considers himself "black", again assuming that that is an absolute term, I find this offensive as a white person (to be clear I am not aware that he has ever said he considers himself black or if he did he would consider it an absolute term). To embrace one aspect of your identity while denying that portion of yourself that is white (or any color or ethnicity) is to reject the unrecognized portion as unworthy. It is to be ashamed of it. Implicit in this rejection is the notion that the rejected part is inferior or undesirable."
I'm white, and ... I don't get this at all. Why is embracing one part of yourself taken as implicit rejection of the other part? Is it really a zero-sum game?
Peter,
Yeah the rule is generally three. You can come here and heckle me, if you see me writing one of those.
"From this perspective, I can see why white people would be a bit peeved by the "first black president" majority and would want to remind them that Obama is also white."
Maybe I'm completely wrong here, but I defy you to find at least the minimum number of white people who are "peeved by the first black president majority and would want to remind them that Obama is also white" to write a trend story. How many of these people actually exist? Outside of the imagination of breathless journalists? Wingnuts do not count, BTW, rational people only, thank you very much.
PeterGuillam:
These people exist. I can't point you to a study since I don't think one exists, but I've had many conversations where white people have said something like: "first black president?... he's half white!"
Just because the reporter was lazy doesn't mean there wasn't a story out there.
As far as whether embracing one of your races is a zero-sum game... I don't know. It's not like I'm staying up nights feeling rejected, but I do think its wrong and I think there is a double standard. What if David Patterson got up tomorrow and said "I consider myself white?" What would the reaction to that statement be?
This post was my first big laugh of the day, Ta-Nehisi. Kudos. As a mixed-race person myself, I agree with Obama that the best way to describe ourselves are as "mutts." My sister and I have always called ourselves that when we met new people and got into the story of who we are. I felt among some relatives growing up that, though they loved us, they looked at us slightly differently. I didn't like this when I was younger but as I got older I realized, hey, I was different. When I met other people who were mixed-race, I looked at them slightly differently too. Though that was because I felt only they could quite understand what I felt growing up.
A person can call themselves whatever they want. (Btw, does Obama refer to himself as black?) I have told my friends, half-jokingly, that Obama is the first president that I can look up to a recognize myself in. That we are both lawyers is just gravy.
If Obama was not President,I bet all these white people "offended" because he does not "claim" his white side not give a shit whether he claimed that side of himself or not. It is not enough for some that Obama has never claim that he was not part white, but that he identifies with being African American because America really did not give him a choice.
"I identify as African-American _ that's how I'm treated and that's how I'm viewed. I'm proud of it."
Everyone raves about Obama's intellect ,how he attended Harvard and ran a smart campaign, We elected him because we felt he is the person to come up with the smart solutions to the problems we are facing today,BUT he is not smart enough to determine which group of people he should identify with, so some believe that They must classify him in a way that fit into a neat little category of THEIR choosing.
When he messes up, he'll be Black soon enough.
LOL
Race being race, you'll always have a gig, Coates.
This was sorta funny.
The original article is bullshit, of course.
I'll say it again:
When White folks claim bi-racial Pookey that has robbed the store and shot 3 people..
Then I'll know this isn't about folks trying to distance Barack Obama from the Black community.
"What if David Patterson got up tomorrow and said "I consider myself white?" What would the reaction to that statement be?"
I don't really think that is an equivalent situation; for one thing, even if David Patterson said he considers himself white, would other people consider him white?
I don't know, I just find the notion that some white people are feeling rejected because Obama wouldn't identify as half-white to be embarrassing. Blegh. Would we be as eager to "claim" him as half-white if he is as corrupt as the great Blago, for example? Methinks not.
PeterG:
I don't feel rejected as much as I feel that it is wrong to reject a part of yourself. I feel this way regardless of which race you are rejecting (thus my Patterson hypothetical). And I don't see pointing out his whiteness as "claiming" him, particularly since I am simply acknowledging a fact (and besides, the "claiming" language is unnecessarily loaded). How about an easier hypo; what if Obama said that he considered himself a white or European American, what would the reaction have been?
And Penny, we always categorize people according to how we see them and not how they see themselves. I don't see how this has anything to do with intelligence. I can be the smartest man in the country but I can't wake up tomorrow and decide I'm black when the rest of the world can see that I'm not.
Easy, TNC! Just start talking about how, now that white folks actually voted for a not-totally-white person in the Oval Office, now believe that racism is 100% dead and no longer an issue in America. That sort of article will be good for awhile, or at least until we get another not-totally-white person in the Oval Office. (I'm guessing a decade at minimum).
laborlibert...
good arguments...now, if you could go and paint Obamas face white...i could actually agree with you...
Bruce:
And if you could paint him black I might agree with you. And that is part of the issue. Obama is, visibly, bi-racial.
Another casualty of all this is the self proclaimed "Sage from South Central" Larry Elder. He was the "black conservative here in Los Angeles on radio station KABC. He was always good for a rant on anything that was positive to the African-American community.
Now they are replacing him with a "Gay Conservative" . I guess he will last until we elect our first gay or maybe more appropriate to the post bisexual President.
They are a lot of African Americans who are "visibly biracial", but I don't see this argument occurring over every single one of them. Why is it such a big deal in the case of Obama? Or is it only an issue when someone makes history - the first whatever etc?
Yo Yo Yo!
I feel your pain. This "post-racial era" is truly awful. Now I can't use the phrase "it's because I'm black" with my friends who just say "No, we voted for Obama, it's because we all agreed to pay for the meal together."
i don't have to...he explained it very eloquently himself...he's african-american...it's inherently a biracial state of being...this whole nubian-king thing that people are projecting on to him and other prominent members of the AA community is quite amusing...if BO was Farrakhan, you would be singing a different tune. Malcolm X's grandfather was european...nobody's claiming him as quarter-white. It's a amusing game we play, the one's we want and covet, we go to great lengths for...the one's we don't want as a part of "our" society, we shun based on the slightest evidence of "differentness". I never claimed he was the long lost son of the king of the zulu-nation...
To paraphrase a similar event in sweden...not long ago, a former USSR runner named Ludmila Narozhilenko...married a swedish guy and became Ludmila Enqvist..a swedish citizen. She ran track in the olympics and won several medals. Swedes of all walks of life called her the greatest thing since sliced bread...a swedish track-sensation. They put her on a pedistal...she fell...hard...she was found to have been taking steriods and was shunned in the public eye...and rightfully so. Problem is, that no one mentioned the word "swedish", "swede" or "national-symbol" ever again...she was yet again the former russian-star who fell hard. point is, that what the writers are doing now, is going to come back and bite them in the ass...hard. And it will piss of people like me...hard. Just like with mrs engqvist.
@laboelinent
"Obama is, visibly, bi-racial."
Please,if Obama did not tell you his mother was white, you would not confuse him for anything other than a light skin Black Man. What is most important and what many seems to forget is that Obama sees himself as A Black African American Man. That is what he sees when he looks in the mirror and rightfully so, and that is what Michelle see when she looks at him.
Why are so many bothered by this?
"Many Are Insisting..."
"Insisting" is an interesting word choice for the story. Last time I checked, Obama was a living breathing human being.
Bruce:
I see your points but I would like someone to address the double standard. There are a lot of white people that are bothered by this, but as the Coates' entry points out, there is no great public outcry to speak of.
I imagine that if Obama or any other biracial public figure announced that he considers himself white, there would be serious consequences.
laboelinent
"Obama is, visibly, bi-racial."
Horsehockey.
Barack Obama looks like a light skinned Black man.
I'll continue to use my Barbershop example with Harold Ford.
Walk into any Black Barbershop 4 years ago with pictures of Barack Obama and Harold Ford, Jr. and ask the folks there, which one is bi-racial, and my money is on them choosing the 2 shades lighter, green-eyed, born of 2 Black parents - Ford.
Barack Obama does NOT look bi-racial. He's darker than me, and I'm just a yella Sista on the South Side of Chicago.
"Obama is, visibly, bi-racial."
Barack is darker than my little sister, who has two black parents. Barack is darker than my mother, who has two black parents.
@laborlibert
let's put it this way....i'm a huge fan of Touraj "TJ" Houshmandzadeh...a half-black, half-iranian WR for the woeful cincinnati bengals...born of a iranian father, and a black mother. When i first saw him in action, i instantly knew he was of some sort of middle-eastern decent (besides the name of course). And i would tell you that i wouldn't have thought of him as "nubian-black" if i saw him walking down the street not knowing his full name. His hair and facial-features are pretty middle-eastern to me. I know, it's shallow and somewhat stupid. But anyway, i read about him in an article in a cincy-newspaper i think, that after 9/11, he had been asked and you know, questioned about his iranian heritage. He sadly and wrongfully said that he hasn't had any contact with arabs or people who think like that (the hi-jackers) and I was heartbroken of hearing it,to say the least. I started reading up on him, i came to realize that he had very little contact with his persian heritage, and saw himself as a black man living in the US. it was so probably because his father and mother broke up shortly after his birth, and his father returned to iran. So I comforted myself with the fact that, because he chose to stay as a Houshmandzadeh, and because he never had the chance of coming in contact with his father, he didn't "get the chance" to explore his heritage. His mother's heritage was closer to him because she was closer to him.
But then it struck me as obvious. He had the chance to explore his heritage whenever he wanted. Obama did it, and he could have done it too if he wanted to . Now im not saying that he's shunned his "other" heritage. But that, there will always be one side of him that he feels stronger towards. Probably the one side that was always by his side. Exacly the opposite of Obama. Im just glad he kept his surname. I cant expect anything else from him.
$1k per article for the Atlantic?
Dude, Good Housekeeping pays $3.5k per. Just sayin'.
But, I digress...
I swear (and this is going to sound incredibly racist - and it probably is) that the black people I encounter as I go through my day are less likely to give me that "I hate all white people" glare that is so common down here in Little Rock.
Are you guys just happier, or what?
Cause y'all sure do seem friendlier lately.
A lot of white people bothered by Obama being called black? Really??? Is this really happening?
hahahahahahahahahaha
I can't even begin to have this conversation with anyone unless he/she has a deep and compelling knowledge of the history of race in America, the creation of "whiteness", the one-drop rule, the sexual exploitation of black women during slavery (Fredrick Douglass, Linda Brent, William Wells Brown and millions others were also biracial, but nobody objected to calling them black. Rather insisted, in fact)the many-hues in which "real" black people come, the continued and documented economic benefit of being "light" etc etc etc.
Actually, even then I'm not interested.
Please, find something real to discuss.
Coates Studies: Grape Soda and Cucumber Sandwiches. A conundrum: is there really something called thug lotion? Is it good for the lumbago? how about for the o-bama? Does it go down slow like the crimson tide? Does it ease and alize ebonically speaking so that it would it be safe to say the nation has gone, in a pre-depression passion, post'al? Or does it just cross the eyes and dot the tease? I am awaiting my 1K along with Godot on this.
Not to thread jack but I never understood the skin-tone comparison fetish among the African American community. I remember reading somewhere that it was a relic of the days of slavery. I think Malcom X references this particular issue in his autobiography, but I still don't quite understand it. I have Native American and Hispanic friends with blond hair and blue eyes, that doesn't make them any less a part of the community. Is there really any difference in treatment or in how one is perceived in certain circles based on the shade of a person's skin?
Human behavior constantly amazes me. Every day I wake up it seems that I learn something new.
So just now my daughter and I are taking our trash to the dump and she asks me, "You're dad is Irish, what but what is your mom?"
"Jewish."
"My teacher won't accept that."
"What do you mean, honey?"
"She says Irish is something you can be, but Jewish is what you believe in."
"She's wrong, sweetie."
"Yeah, she's wrong. We'll have to write her a note."
So am I. Hair and eyes like Mandy Patinkin; facial features like that cartoon on a box of Lucky Charms.
They attributed Frederick Douglass' talent for writing to his "white blood." Why the surprise when we hear the same things said about an articulate, educated black man who is about to become head of state?
Safia:
Acknowledging the obvious and undisputed fact that Obama is half-white is not the same as saying: "He only made it cause he's half-white".
And who exactly is "they"? If you are going to impute a racist motive to some one or some group without any basis you should at least have the courtesy to name them.
This is white America trying to rationalize the achievement and support of a black man, plain and simple. Tim Wise's latest stuff on 'racism 2.0' might be of interest.
There's a difference between saying he's half-white or biracial (fact) and saying he's "not black," which is the topic of TNC's post and involves denying aspects of American history and contemporary realities that would cause someone like Obama to self-identify as black. Maybe start off with the one drop rule and work your way from there.
TNC, anytime you want a taste of the pre-"post racial America," take a dip into the entertainment industry. With a few exceptions (most notably in the music segment) this most "liberal" of American industries is still almost lily White, especially in the executive suites, which are still Whiter than George Bush's cabinet. Did you see the Golden Globe noms this year? Oscar won't be any different. (I laughed my ass off when a couple of years ago, George Clooney, w/o a trace of irony, defended the movie business by saying how wonderful it was that they gave Hattie McDaniel an Oscar for playing a slave, which of course was the only type of roll this great actor was allowed to play.) Ever been to the big talent agencies? You still have to go the mail rooms to find a person of color. Remember the dozens of writers who came to the stage when Colbert and Stewart won their awards? It is literally easier for a convicted child molester to get a directing job than it is for a person of color. Big Willy, Tyler Perry (yes its mostly drivel, but Black folks are working) and Oprah aside, this is just the tip of a very White iceberg.
Anna, by your reckoning, is this is because racist attitudes are stronger in said industry? Or because it's the ultimate insider/who-you-know business? A little of both? A lot of both?
Safia wrote: This is white America trying to rationalize the achievement and support of a black man, plain and simple. Tim Wise's latest stuff on 'racism 2.0' might be of interest.
Please bear with me. I'm not sure that this event is so cut and dried. Obviously America was ready for an African-American president otherwise Barrack Obama would not be the president elect. I don't think that the election means that we have overcome every racial issue in this country. Frankly, I don't think that is possible. However, certainly this could have never happened in my Parent's generation, and certainly not in my Grandparent's generation. I think that all we can say for sure is that this is a new experience for everybody. White people, and people in general for that matter, have been making stupid comments for years and I have a hunch that people will continue to make stupid comments for years regardless of their race.
At least with the election of Obama these questions are being voiced in the open instead of at the all-white cocktail party or bar where they would probably be shrugged off with a nervous laugh.
I don't think anyone in their right mind has any intention of denying Obama's place in the African American community. You'd have to be blind and live in a hole in the ground not to know we just elected the first non-white person to our highest office. However for the time being until a certain segment of the media gets used to the idea of a president that is African American there is bound to be some stupid things issuing from the mouths of the pundit class. Why should the issue of Obama's race be any different than the housing bubble, or the economy? No class in America wrong more constantly than the talking head pundit class generated by 24 hour news coverage. I don't think that the comments about Obama are about how the expectations that govern the first African American president are somehow different than the expectations that face any other president. The simplest answer in this case is that if you pay people to speak their minds occasionally, those minds will be found to be empty.
@Laborlib
When you comment that Obama is "visibly" biracial. Are you referring to his physical appearance, skin complexion, hair, lips, and nose? Perhaps you mean obviously, because we know his Mother and Grandparents.
Barak Obama is darker in complexion and exhibits more “black / African” features than many black Americans we recognize who don’t have white parents, but have white linage. Harold Ford, Tayshaun Prince of the Detroit Pistons, Rosa Parks, Thurgood Marshall, Tisha Campbell, etc.
Barak is darker than these black Americans but he’s not to be considered black? He may have cut it off, but we know Obama can rock an Afro. No “good hair” for him. Certainly Harold Ford would look more biracial to you.
Black Americans are a “hybrid people”. Beautiful colors from dark smooth black to caramel, chocolate, to yellow, high yellow, and almost white. Should they approach an identity represented as quadroons, octoroons, and quintoons?
Will you take offense if Obama’s daughters refer to themselves as black even though they have a white grandmother and great grandparents? What’s the percentage to begin repping their slice of whiteness? It’s got to be 50/50 otherwise you are not offended?
The thing is, what happens to the light complexion folks are not exactly ½ white and black – where do they fit with you.
Yeah, but even more mind-numbing was this bit:
Yes, I suppose that's one way to put it. Or Washington could have written that when the good ol' slave master was just "dropping by" to "produce brown babies" he was actually, you know, raping the slave women. He wasn't just "dropping by" for a glass of lemonade and a backrub. He was proudly participating in the centuries long tradition of white slave owners systematically raping and violating enslaved black women. And that while it's true that the babies "could never be a full citizen", surely it is more relevant that those children--the mulatto sons and daughters of the slave master--were consigned to a lifetime enslavement themselves. But why write the unvarnished truth when you can just obscure it with insipid euphemisms?
Love your columns anyway...even if they don't make me feel guilty.
Have you read Orwell's 'why I write?'
Augustine:
I meant his physical appearance is biracial. And those people you mention, to the extent that I can recall their appearance, appear biracial to me as well. And no, it doesn't really make a difference if your half and half or 3/4's, but I feel that there is a difference in degree, a very large one in fact, between a light skinned american black (as described by the "one drop rule" adherents who always seem to show up in any racial discussion to trot out the same-old and tired arguments) who doesn't recognize his whiteness, and the White-American/African Black (raised by whites no less) who refuses to do so.
And this notion that whites want to claim Obama is sort of strange to me. We have enough clever ambitious cocksuckers to call our own.
I hope that answers your question.
---I never understood the skin-tone comparison fetish among the African American community.---
Yeah, Sorn...I wouldn't blame it ALL on the black folks. The whole colonization thing sorta helped.
---Is there really any difference in treatment or in how one is perceived in certain circles based on the shade of a person's skin?---
Why, yes. And there are tons of books that address this subject. May I suggest you start with Marita Golden's "Don't Play in the Sun"? Very good book.
"There are real conversations to be had about race in America, but this just isn't one of them."
One of those conversations should address the fact that blacks are more racist than any other racial group in America. Including their own self imposed caste system based on depth of color.
"Whiteys"
Offensive!
Tony C. : to answer your question, based on my experience, it is a distinction w/o a difference as the results are the same--exclusion. Now when your business is monetizing creativity, excluding large swaths of the population, including those folks who have, against great odds, in part defined American culture, you are playing a losing game. If "big entertainment" doesn't find a way to integrate, especially when the cost of production and distribution is falling and therefore decreasing their leverage and interesting content remains king (see UTube) the chickens, as so many "radicals" have noted, will come home to roost.
J.C. I didn't mean to insinuate that I was blaming anything on anyone. I probably should have phrased that differently. No offense was intended. I will read the book you recommended. I only asked because its one thing to read about it in a book and its an entirely different thing to hear about it from someone who lived it and to see how it shaped their world view.
I apologize and I didn't mean to offend.
" Looks" biracial? That's amusing.
A deeper point is that what most commenter don't realize is that there are several distinct types of black people in Africa. There are the Bantu people ( from which most African Americans are descended) , with what we think are classically " black" features: wide nose, thick lips, kinky hair, tending to thick, muscular build, etc. Skin complexion varies from very dark to , well, obama's complexion. I know someone who is a full blooded Ibo who is exactly the same shade as Obama. Bantus used to live mostly in West Africa, but in the last two thousand years they expanded through sub-Saharan Africa. There are the Nilotics, who live mostly in a belt right below the Sahara and extending across Africa. They tend to be tall, slim, and very dark, with narrow lips and noses. there are the Bushhmen/Khoi, who live mostly in Southern Africa and who tend to be slight, wiry and slight skinned. Smallest of all are the pygmies, who live in Central Africa,and who are like shorter, darker-skinned versions of the Bushman. And of course I haven't even mentioned the various white groups who have lived in North Africa since time immemorial. While these groups were all originally distinct, because of war, trade, migration, and slavery, there are plenty of "mixed-race" representatives of all of these groups. All of this gives the lie to the idea of " race" , "looking biracial" or that there is some "typically African American or African" look.
@Laborlib,
I have to be honest here and say that you probably meant well by attempting to engage a meaningful discussion on identity and race but have done so in a very crude manner and revealed an ignorance, and or denial, of black American identity.
Unless you mean “visibly” in an explicit contrast to someone native to Ghana, Nigeria, Senegal. In that sense he would appear biracial, as would at least 2/3 of black Americans.
Do Will Smith, Allen Iverson, Grant Hill, and Charles Barkley also appear biracial to you? Seriously, these black Americans have the same complexion and hair texture as Obama. Halle Berry is ½ white the same complexion of Beyonce. Google their images.
This is why black American identity and racial politics are different and the subject more complex than you have demonstrated.
From your reply the majority of the black American populace must appear biracial to you and apparently you may or may not have an issue with them not claiming their white ancestry sufficiently enough. Depending on the ratio of their whiteness, and if they have a relationship with their white relatives.
If Halle Berry and Barak Obama never shared information that one of their parents was white you’re suggesting that you’d have assumed so anyway? Just like you must assume that Rosa Parks or a Will Smith must have a white parent.
I don’t believe this for one moment, and you’re doing a horrible job trying to save face on this one point in the dialogue, because I don’t even think you believe this. But you’re trying to advance a discussion on a messy topic, however clumsily, and I can appreciate that.
Reading your reply, if I understand you correctly. You don’t have issues with the ¼ white racially mixed person who has a light complexion, and more white features, not acknowledging their white ancestry.
But you do have a problem with the ½ white racially mixed person who has a brown or caramel complexion, with more black features, not acknowledging his or her white ancestry.
And since Obama has never denied his white heritage I’m not sure how or why you’re offended that he can and does consider himself a black American. That’s pretty interesting.
Perhaps this one-drop rule has captured your imagination more than you are prepared to admit, but this time the one-drop rule applies to white blood….and presto….you can’t be considered black.
thank you Dragnet. "Dropping by!?" Today thugmen of all races are still "dropping by" and using rape as an act of war against women around the world. While I am not a supporter of capital punishment, should we consider castration as an appropriate punishment?
When I moved to NYC I rarely hired non-whites; a simple by-product of who I knew.
By chance I met a non-white DP with whom I formed a strong creative relationship. He knew lots of non-whites, some of whom I ended up hiring for this project or that project.
I can't speak to the upper echelons of the entertainment business, but from my point of view racism vs who you know is a distinction with a difference; and that difference makes itself plain with opportunity presents itself.
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late but I can't let it go....@laborlibert:
To embrace one aspect of your identity while denying that portion of yourself that is white (or any color or ethnicity) is to reject the unrecognized portion as unworthy. It is to be ashamed of it.
Lisa already sort of handled this---but this just isn't the case. Whiteness and blackness are historical constructions with hundreds of years of weight behind them and they do not operate in the same way. To be black has always been inclusive of white heritage, native american heritage, Korean/Vietnamese heritage, etc. White, however, has always been an *exclusive* notion, excluding Jews, Irish, and Italians/Greeks over time. So to claim "white", yes, may be to reject other elements. To claim "black" does not.