Seriously, I love my bougie people--and some of you are even my literal fam. No Jack & Jillers (yet) but the pink and green reps on my side, and the Delta on Kenyatta's side. I went to Howard, and I know that ya'll are more than cotillions and Martha's Vineyard (and yet you're that too). Plus, when I was a kid, we all thought that hottest chicks (county girls for the win!) were gonna be at your parties. Moreover, I think fully half my readership is made up of future members of the Boule\Links. Don't ever let it be said that I don't got love for my Bougie people.
But I gotta drop it on you one time...
Conversate--much like copacetic--is a word, and it's word that you'll be seeing on this blog quite a bit. So for all the Carlton and Crystals out there, I have a message--you can't win this one. The Keyshawns have it on the slanguage. Tamika wins the day. Again!
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Copyright © 2009 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
I'm having a hard time figuring out where I fit into your taxonomy, T-NC. Where's the room for the suburban White boy?
LOL!!! I reps hard for Delta Sigma Theta all day and use conversate like it's going outta style. You know conversation rules the nation, right???
Is there such a thing as bougie-ghetto?? :)
Yup. It's called the Coates family. Seven kids. Four women. AKAs amongst us. Some of us did time in the jects. But we cook our greens with turkey wings, not the pig.
I vacillate between tight-assed grammar snobbery and a more realistic view of language as an organic free-for-all. Part of the joy of TNC's blog is that a white guy from Missouri like me can learn fantastic new terms like "weaksauce." (I have totally stolen that latter, and nobody here in Maine knows that I sound ridiculous using it. Or at least I think they don't.) I am 100% unqualified to weigh in on the ongoing Crystal/Tamika struggle.
Conversate away. I'll read Safire when I want a different take on language.
LOL!! I'm just giving you a hard time because everything you write puts anything I do to shame...gotta criticize where I can. But I have been properly chastened and will 'shut the hell up.' BTW the co-worker who uses "conversate" is just a white chick. Perhaps I should pass on the stuffblackpeoplelike blog link to her. Fun times.
Dan,
A word of advice. Stick with Tamika. That way, you know you won't get cut.
I have heard the word quite often but it has honestly never occurred to me that the user was under the impression that the word was standard english. Not sure why it would matter if they did and it does seem to be acknowledged as a word in Websters with an etymology dating back to 1973. So perhaps I was the one with the wrong assumption all along.
But contrary to my breezy attitude towards its usage, this word is one of the central issues in a deeply entrenched class-based civil war as your title suggests. Check out some of the anger at the urban dictionary.
Conversate is not a word? Pffffft. The linguistic standard is that the native speakers of a language are the arbiters of what does and does not consitute an acceptable form in their language, whether it's Puget Sound Salish or some variety of English.
"I'll read Safire when I want a different take on language."
I'll listen to Safire's pronouncements on English when he listens to mine on Yiddish. He doesn't have enough generations in this language to have standing. Ellis Island makes you an American, not a native English-speaker.
Yes, any word is a word by this definition. The fact that its slang is irrelevant. The fact that Coates wants to sound ignorant is not.
What do you mean FUTURE member of The Links???! ;o)
Conversate is a word? first time i heard it was (drumroll) ---> One More Chance, Notorious BIG
So BIG was right, and all my HS teachers were wrong...love it...
As puffy would say - take that, take that...
Don't you just love when adults talk like little kids?
"I'll listen to Safire's pronouncements on English when he listens to mine on Yiddish. He doesn't have enough generations in this language to have standing. Ellis Island makes you an American, not a native English-speaker."
---By Jim's argument, we shouldn't read Joseph Conrad. Stupid Polish idiot never even grew up with the language, how dare you think he's a good writer!
Tool.
This post confuses me. The first two paragraphs have my head spinning.
Basic Fact,
Please don't comment here again. It's not so much that you called Jim a tool--though that was classless--it's that you have no sense of humor. I can't have you infecting my blog.
@ Jim
Puget Sound Salish is a obscure reference but it sparked my attention since I'm from Seattle. What made you cite their language practices?
Conversate is indeed a word and a mainstream one at that. How else would it get an entry in dictionary.com:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/conversate
Basic Fact,
Jim's argument does not lead to the conclusion that Heart of Darkness or other works by Joseph Conrad aren't worth reading. It leads to the conclusion that we should not rely on Conrad for advice on proper English usage.
Of course, the flaw in Jim's argument is that it is possible for a person to have a line of English-speaking ancestors going back for hundreds of years, and still have little or no command of proper English, written or spoken. At the same time, a native English speaker could have parents or grandparents who were not native English speakers, and yet possess a masterful command of proper English.
I appreciate the advice, TNC, but I worked with a Delta a few years ago that I still have on speed dial in case I ever need some heads busted.
Oh the Deltas do go hard. No question.
I just have to thank you for introducing me to "Bougie people." Had never heard the term b/f today, when I saw it in this post and your piece on Michelle Obama. I was going to ask you to define, but then decided that would make me sound like the guy who asked for a "Blictionary."
Urban Dictionary, to the rescue!
I would assume that most of those that blog and counter-blog are also avid readers. It's always been my mental analogy that by reading untold millions of others' words, it all goes into a big stewpot, and then can be crafted into whatever you like.
Reading more makes you a better writer, but not necessarily a better speaker. I tend to fall on the side of things that, unless you're playing an MMO or something simliar, it's very seldom "acceptable" to write like you speak. Writing gives one a chance to consider their words carefully before letting them out.
By the by, I thought weaksauce was a fanboy/geekspeak term. On that level alone do I usually let myself devolve into extremely un-mainstream language and can probably rip off a couple of paragraphs on the pros and cons of thermal-tanking versus explosive-tanking on your latest pod-captained heavy assault cruiser without the layman understanding a word.
Well, I have bourgie tendencies, though I blog at PostBourgie, and I've even been known to out-bourgie some of my sorority sisters (the SKEEphisticated ladies of AAAAAAAlllllpha Kappa Alpha), so I must reject and denounce "conversate" on principle.
With that said, thanks for the love.
Hey TNC, where do African and Carribean emigrants fit in the Tamika/Keyshwan vs. Jill/Jack debate? Seems like Nigerians, Senegaleses, Haitians, Jamaicans do not fit in that old mold of the "brown" paper bag test! They have their own languages and dialects too!
-Antoine
...and, for whatever reason, tend to be employed at higher rates, incarcerated at lower rates, earn more and use public services less. That's not a dig at anyone at all. That's a triumph of immigration gone well.
Wow. This white boy hasn't been this lost in what's being talked about (or conversated about, if you prefer) since Snoop became a regular on The Wire.
It's all good, though. I'll just sit back and wait for the next NFL thread. Something for everyone here at TNC's.
Other Dan, I generally bide my time and hope for X-men posts, since I know even less about football than I do about the ongoing strife between Crystal and Tamika.
For sure-fire Academy Awards picks, however, I'm your boy.
copacetic...
YES!
when i was in construction in NYC this part-time guy, big friendly black dude of about 50, got that word from a 20 year old mexican LES cat and began using it.. copiously. it's way cooler than conversate.
educate me black people... what is this Jill-Jack business?
I'm a secretary and on lunch break so...
Jack & Jill: http://national.jackandjillonline.org/. There's more to it than that but that's a start. By the way, back in the day, my mother would have none of this in her or our world and the stream of invectives about them from her mouth would make a stevedore blush.
Also, AKA: http://www.aka1908.com/. The "skeee" referred to above is how the AKAs hit each other up. Colors are pink and green that look better together than it sounds.
Delta: http://www.deltasigmatheta.org/. Their call is a deep "whoop whoop." Red and white are the colors. Elephants the "mascot."
I wasn't a sorority kind of chick...hung more with the ne'er-do-wells, so this is from observation and mother, sister and half-my-age boss who are are Deltas. TNC is right. Deltas go hard.
Deltas go hard.
Ok. But where do they go hard???
Help us out, black people! We are clueless!
@Hicks - Minor correction: Our unofficial call is "oo-oop". Thanks for the link love, so all of the unfamiliar can see what kind of work Black Greeks are doing in the community. It's not all bad news.
(from a financial and active 15 years in the game sorority girl)
And yes, we go hard! ;-)
Tiffany, thanks much. What the hell did we stoned ne'er-do-wells hanging on the wall know. All I know is the ooop got the boys going.
Actually, the Delta link should have a "/cms/" at the end...reposting the link'd put my comment in limbo I think.
@ Hicks - The unofficial call for AKAs is "skee-wee." I second Tiffany's call for all unfamiliar with our rich history to take a look at our respective websites. I think many of you will be surprised at the work that has been done and is on-going in our community.
May I add another word to the lexicon?
I often use the word insinuendo (innuendo + insinuate). Say it a few times. Use it in a sentence. "I don't appreciate your insinuendo!" I am with you on on conversate. How else are new words created accept through improvisation?
First, if TNC uses a word, it's a word.
Second, if TNC uses a word I've never met, it's a word that carries its own weight in the world.
So "conversate" must do some work that "converse" can't do.
So far, I haven't been able to figure out what the extra is.
I'll happily wait and learn by listening, but I'd also gratefully accept a direct explanation of the difference.
Oh, I bet you say "discuss about" and "added bonus" too! *weeps* My coal-black copyeditor's heart is bleeding, BLEEDING I say!
Then again, I often think that becoming a copyeditor on purpose is a disorder in itself...
Conversate = getting dunked on by someone wearing Chuck Taylors
Conversate for a few, cause in a few, we gon' do. What we came to do, ain't that right boo (truuuueee)....
It's a word, although I've had to add it to my firefox and MS Word dictionaries.....
I also like to add in an extra consonant to established words, just to keep my native vocab up since I'm so far from home....so from time to time, I'll throw in a 'lookted' or 'crynin' just for practice sake....don't AKS me why.
and besides....if Merriam Webster says it's a word, who are we to argue...it's not even listed as Ebonics!
I am ashamed of my white folks out here? None of you have seen Spike Lee's "School Daze"? You would know a little about the class war amongst the college aged black folks, you'd at least know bougie. Do I get props for knowing what yellow boned is?
Coates,
I love your posts like this.
LOL
Delta Family on its fourth generation...
LOL
jbou....i think you may have mixed up 'redboned' and 'high yella'...but I'd give you an A for effort....hahahah.....
jbou...i stand corrected....you get more props than i do....i guess i thought I could just show up and be black....hahahaha....must get back home to study being black lest I be given a pop quiz.
Shit, you are right. Damn, now I have to give back my Ghetto pass. Shame on me. Shame shame shame.
Ta Nehisi, that's why you my (man) Damn right Conversate is a word. People are confused by what constitutes a word and what the job of dictionary is. As I tell my students, dictionaries memoralize words, they do NOT invent them. Humans invent words. As Walt Whitman said, "Language has its bases broad and low"
I'll leave you with two quotes:
Dictionaries are like watches; the worst is better than none, and the best cannot be expected to go quite true. ~Samuel Johnson

The English language is nobody's special property. It is the property of the imagination: it is the property of the language itself. ~Derek Walcott
@Galleymac
"Oh, I bet you say 'discuss about' and 'added bonus' too! *weeps* My coal-black copyeditor's heart is bleeding, BLEEDING I say!"
"Various different" "included in," "whether or not" "ahold" "jerry-rigged."
*sobs phrases gently on Galleymac's shoulder*
I just looked it up in the Shorter Oxford English Dictionary - the Superbowl of dictionaries, which includes a lot of slang. "Conversate" didn't rank. "Converse" did though, and it even has one less syllable.
So with all respect TNC, I'll take the same attitude toward "conversate" that you take with some football teams - Until it ranks in the OED, it has no right to speak.
I disagree Ta-Nehisi, but support you irregardless.
My very body rejects "Conversate", yet I say Pwned, aloud. I have not a leg to stand on. Pwned by my own pwnage.
Yeah, I'm also pretty sure "weaksauce" is nerdspeak.
Ta-Nehisi with the AKA's in the house! :) This is a serious matter!
Skee-wee, shani-o! :)
QT
"weaksauce" is unquestionably nerdspeak. We are ever the innovators.
"Conversate" on the other had... Admittedly I don't run in the right circles, as this is entirely new to me, but... sounds sorta corperate buzzword-esque, does it not? Incentivize! Conversate!
A word it may be, but the problem is that its competing with the much more elegant and efficient "converse." Can't see it ever going mainstream.
TNC
I agree with Doug. My Random House College Dictionary also does not list conversate as a word.
Using a word does not make it correct English.
Sorry, but conversate is not a verb for conversation. The verb as noted by others is 'converse'
Ah, linguistics.........
" conversate" is slang right now, but it may graduate to a colloquial variant of "converse" if it becomes common enough. Two centuries on, it may even become the most common usage, and " converse" might become old-fashioned, like using "thee " and "thou" in English.
Right now though, its slang. Don't even try to use it in formal or business settings , unless you want to be stamped as a hopeless hayseed.
AWWWWWW, H-U!!!!
"Conversate" and "converse" may have similiar denotations, but they definitely have different connotations. I would expect people to conversate over Thanksgiving dinner with family and friends, but converse with co-workers during a project meeting in the conference room.