But there are plenty of homophobes who don't say fag--we call them Vote Yes on 8. Likewise, there are plenty of sexists who would never use the word bitch--we call them Al'Quaeda. Williams is obviously not a terrorist, but he's a hip-hop scold of the highest order. And yet, as Adam point out, for all of hip-hop's misogyny, I simply can't imagine a rapper insulting Michelle Obama, in the blatantly sexist manner, that Juan Williams did:
...I realized that I've never heard --and I don't think I ever will hear -- a rapper call Michelle Obama a bitch. But you don't have to call a woman a bitch to treat her like one.I've tried for a long time to reconcile my love of Hip-hop music with its unapologetic misogyny, or even the fact that so many friends I've known since knee-high flick around the word like spent cigarettes no matter how many times we argue about it. The bitches/sisters explanation is patently unsatisfying, it's basically a reinvention of the old madonna/whore dichotomy. I can't really come up with an explanation, other than that there are ugly sides to most of the things we love. But Williams is one of the most vocal critics of Hip-hop; of what right-leaning black pundits refer to as "street-culture." I see little that's different in what Williams is saying about Michelle from what you might hear from Young Jeezy.
This isn't an isolated statement about something someone said last year, it fits into an established narrative of who black women are. Rather than being the hyper-sexualized Jezebel popular in rap music, she's portrayed as the masculine ball-buster, the kind of women ignorant men write "why I don't date black women" essays about, trying to convince themselves that there's something rational about hating the kind of woman who gave birth to you. Williams' statement makes me angry not because it's about Michelle, but because it's so manifestly not about her, but about black women in general. And maybe with some kind of messed up, terrible rationalization I can divorce myself from what happens in Hip-hop because I know Jeezy isn't talking about my mama. But when people talk about Michelle like this, they're talking about this universe of brilliant, accomplished black women who never seem to get their due. They're talking about the women I know; my mother, my aunts, my cousins. And it makes me furious.
That's so fucking money. But the truth is that men who run around talking about how they "don't date black women" aren't a scourge on black women--they're a scourge on white women. And this is really how I see Williams. Michelle Obama is the First Lady of the United States, and right now she's got it clicking on all cylinders. Her husband is now the most powerful man on the planet, and arguably the most powerful black man in history.
Better yet, think on this. The sisters will be fine. They've seen so much worse than Juan Williams. Ditto for Michelle. What did Gandalf tell Grima?
Keep your forked tongue behind you teeth. I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a witless worm.I would stay still, if I were you...
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Stop speaking right now Juan!
Sometimes I wish America weren't the democracy it is. Then Barack could call in airstrikes on folks for talking shit.
You are right though, TNC, we have seen worse than Juan, and we'll be just fine.
Excellent deployment of the Tolkein quote, from a chapter I was just reading aloud to my son the other day. It's even more fun if you say it at the top of your lungs. (It would be even better if one sounded like Ian McKellan, of course.)
Completely in agreement with you and Adam Serwer on Juan Williams - thanks.
Way to break out the Tolkien, TNC! Show that punk how we do things in the Westfold!
I'm amused by Williams' warning to Michelle Obama that she could wind up like Hillary Clinton. Gee, that would be - a two term First Lady, then a Senator, then a close second in the Democratic primary, and then Secretary of State. With a nice home in Chappaqua and plenty of money in the bank. Love her or hate her, Hillary Clinton is a lousy choice for a cautionary tale about the dire fate that awaits a woman who's too aggressive.
Dude! Going straight from talking about hip hop, race relations, modern misogyny, and then top it all off with a proper Tolkien quote? Wow, just wow.
It's why I'll always read you man.
Sewer hit the nail on the head with that one. But even just knowing what pissed me off so much about it doesn't take away one iota of my anger. Especially knowing that if the situation were reversed FoxNews itself would be pushing for any pundit to get fired who would dare bismirch Laura Bush in the same manner. That is definitely an area that we liberals haven't quite caught on to yet for better or for worse.
I can get my geek on and get my anti-Juan Wormtongue fix all in one place? This has got to be post of the week, or something!
but are you sure gandalf said'
"behind you teeth"?
This post is full of win.
WRT Tolkein, I'm also fond of this one: "Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion!"
But Williams isn't worthy of that - he's too lame, definitely more the Grima type.
Haha man I love this blog. That is such a friggin' sick burn by Gandalf!
True, HCG, tho it's fun to think of Michelle coming down all Eowyn-like on someone who's worthy of it.
But when people talk about Michelle like this, they're talking about this universe of brilliant, accomplished black women who never seem to get their due. They're talking about the women I know; my mother, my aunts, my cousins. And it makes me furious.
Yep.
and kudos to you quoting Gandalf, Coates.
I had to look up who Stokely Carmichael is. (Was?) I imagine I'm not the only one....it's Bill Ayers all over again. (The Weather Underground evidently has some history before being an internet weather site; who knew?)
In addition to Lynn Gazis-Sax's excellent point, what is with Williams and the First Lady? It's like this is the critical piece of the transition on which he's going to hang his hat. I'm reminded of that other hoary old NPR reporter, Cokie Roberts, and her obsession with candidate Obama's bizarre decision to vacation in Hawaii, which is practically a foreign country, and her dire predictions of what would ensue if he didn't shape up and get his ass to Myrtle Beach like a real American.
That Gandalf quote might become my e-mail sig. (Except I don't deserve it.)
Speaking of hip-hop, I was one para into this snapshot of the Hip-Hop Inaugural Ball in the dead tree version of the New Yorker when I went, "Who did the NYer get to write this? It should be TNC!" And hot damn it was. When we you going to tell us?
Hey Chris L., your link is broken. Would be interested in reading the story, though.
Michelle Obama certainly hasn't aided and abetted her husband is his rapes of poor working class women by paying hush money. Given this Sewer's following statement is false
" We've changed the particulars to fit Michelle's cultural context, but ultimately nothing has really changed."
Everything has changed. It's starts w/ a false comparsion between Hilliary Clinton and Michelle Obama.
Hip-hop is the most repetitive, unoriginal, vile and offensive bullshit ever to come down the pike. It truly sucks.
But not as much as Juan Williams.
this post is murk-tastic.
Hip-hop is the most repetitive, unoriginal, vile and offensive bullshit ever to come down the pike. It truly sucks.
That's funny, I've always found that the generic whines of moralistic scolds who know nothing about hip hop to be the most repetitive, unoriginal bullshit ever to come down the pike.
I guess tastes differ.
A great Juan Williams takedown complete with a Tolkein finish : this belongs in that damn mission statement.
So...since the election has been won, that whole "leave my family out of it" shit is over now? Juan Williams needs to stick to what he does best: kissing the asses of Republican politicians. This unprovoked attack on a woman makes him look like a bitch.
P.S.: A young brother discussing a black Jew who rhapsodizes on Juan Williams, with a Tolkien finish? THIS, ladies and gents, is post-racial.
"Who did the NYer get to write this? It should be TNC!" And hot damn it was. When we you going to tell us?
*trots off to kitchen to find own copy, which arrived today*
Dang. I was going to let this wait while I finished some other stuff--you've got to tell us these things, and how Kenyatta feels about it.
Um.... I really have no idea what the fuck Juan is rambling about, but I don't see how he is calling her a bitch at all. Like, he seems to be saying that Michelle needs to avoid anything like a repeat of the "first time in my adult life," comment, which is kind of true. Obviously, he is going overboard in his comparison to Carmichael , but I don't see how that is an insult to black women everywhere.
Sorry if I screwed up the HTML,so I'll play it straight: http://www.newyorker.com/talk/2009/02/02/090202ta_talk_coates
Deleted. You've stumbled on to the wrong blog. If you want to contribute something, I'm all ears. If you just want to tell me how much you hate hip-hop, I'm simply bored, and would ask you to keep walking. Its just not that interesting.
Shoo, ken, the grown-ups are talking.
Yay for the New Yorker piece, and so much love for the takedown, Ta-Nehisi.
@Lynn Gazis-Sax
Amen. Best Hillary comment ever.
Don't you mean "shit was SO cash"?
"But when people talk about Michelle like this, they're talking about this universe of brilliant, accomplished black women who never seem to get their due. They're talking about the women I know; my mother, my aunts, my cousins. And it makes me furious."
Moreover, it's an insult to all women. This kind of behavior is really getting old. Pundits and politicians said the same kind of shit about Hillary. If you're a successful woman and you do more than sit quietly with your hands folded in your lap, some men see you as a liability---you're downright dangerous!---and you need to be silenced:
"She's got this Stokely Carmichael-in-a-designer-dress thing going. If she starts talking..."
He could have stopped there. We ladies understand where's he headed: Keep your mouth shut. The weird thing is, I bet you anything Juan Williams is married to a woman who is a lot like Michelle...smart and successful. So why this behavior? It bugs.
That was gorgeous. The link to the NY Times short was a stroke of brilliance. TNC, you just killed Juan Williams. Out in the street, they call it murder.
In response to Mr. Juan Williams and his latest verbal barrage I say the following:
I am of the humble opinion that First Lady Michelle Obama has made such a postive impression on the WORLD stage during this 2 year campaign process culminating with the Inguaration last week that Fox News had to crank up the propaganda machine. The entire CELEBRATION last week has frightened them. How could it be that America have young, intelligent, family oriented, respectful representatives (President and First Lady Obama) with world wide support, hope and optimism for America to rise again to it's once illustrious standing? Oh and did I mention they happen to be African American.
So what do they do, they use Juan Williams (a man of color) to attempt to demean and denigrate The First Family (people of color) by informing the uninformed that his wife, First Lady Michelle Obama, is some type of RADICAL & ANGRY African American woman by linking her to a Black Power historical figure. They are using a parsed statement {"really proud"} from a speech First Lady Obama was giving while campaigning to suggest she is some time of ticking RACIAL TIME bomb and that she is not really an asset to her husband, America, and the world at large. Once again Fox News is attempting to open up a cultural war from the sixties in America; affable Blacks (Juan Williams and President Obama) versus radical Blacks (alledgedly First Lady Obama); while simultaneously playing divide and conquer between a Black husband and wife. Moreover, it is obvious to anyone with eyes that The Obama Family (Husband, Wife and Daughters) possesses strength in each other. What is the best way to marginalize that power, attack the foundation of the family, the wife and mother. This is so "old school", one would have to go back to the Southern Plantation to reference it.
Mr. Williams, I am happy to say that your preposterous, pretense will NOT precipitate the response from President Obama and First Lady Obama that Fox News is paying you for! Furthermore, those individuals who believe that your politically negative punditry has merit and watch you daily, are lost causes anyway.
Juan Williams and Fox News need to stop with the lies and feigned outrage. Mrs. Obama is a first rate scholar, attorney, community advocate, mother, wife and daughter. The rest of the world
TNC,
Didn't you make us a promise last week that you weren't going to get all riled up by the noise on the network hooplah?
C'mon, man. This is beneath you, right? Well, I don't know. But more importantly, this Juan Williams stuff is boring. Neither does any of this help me understand anything.
"Her husband is now the most powerful man on the planet, and arguably the most powerful black man in history."
Arguably? I'm guessing Jesus, Moses and Ramses are the only others in contention.
Thinking it over, Juan Williams is Clarence Thomas, but without the law degree and the charm.
I just can't stand Williams' holier than thou pronouncements. He's not interested in having a dialogue, he just wants us to bask in the World According to Juan Williams. Like he knows better than the rest of us. Boring.
Women can be deeply frightening, in a way. I think Juan Williams is speaking from a position of deep fear for what Michelle represents. I've had some ignorant friends before and watched them sucker girl after girl who didn't know better until one day they go after the type that does, and i've seen how it changes them. They do their dance and that girl sees right through them and they know the jig is up. These are men who date weak women, and I don't want to insinuate that Williams' partner, whoever they may be, is weak but that this is what comes to mind when I read stuff like this.
When you see the type of girl that you know would tear you up (figuratively), you just can't react like Williams does cause that makes you a sissy.
I haven't been checking in on the blog in a while, but you're winning me back, TNC.
As for JW: you sonned him.
C'mon, man. This is beneath you, right?
Funny, I was thinking the same thing of Juan Williams. And it's nice to know the First Lady can get slapped in the face on national television and someone will call it 'boring.'
Mr. Coates: I certainly appreciate your blogging on this. However, I submit that you male pundits speak directly to J.W. He is a misogynist who has long specialized in hatred of Black women and has been too long propped up by others as a positive role model, simply because he is not a felon and has a job. I submit that Black male pundits who care about Black women -- because all seem to care dearly about each other/Black men, who hand out free passes to each other left and right for all sorts of tomfoolery -- need to speak directly, harshly, definitely, and unapologetically to him. Don't stick around in the hazy, shadowed safety of "Amen Corners," i.e., blogs and barbershops. Perhaps, heretofore, culture and code has required Black male pundits (I wouldn't know; I'm merely curious) to be silent, given America's history of racial discrimination and violence. However, given the relative privilege of the actors involved today (pundits, J.W.), I wonder why there is a dearth of Black male pundits to speak in tones of outrage? Thank you.
I was just over at JJP and some of the postes said Juan was on Tom Joyner talking to Roland Martin and Juan was simply trying to protect her from the vibe she gives off and keep her from making that mistake. Ha yeah right
Obtusity, so what else is new. Apparently Mr. Williams has a poor track record with women, a fundamental lack of judgment in speaking to or about them, which he has veiled with a critique of popular music. But there's also this so called post racial attitude that any gripes Michelle Obama might have with America are subversive. It might be so, after all Joseph Lowery suggesting that red people ought to get ahead and whites embrace right seemed to set off the closet cucumber sandwich eating mentality. Stokely Carmichael? CORE? SNCC? Freedom rider? Husband of the recently mourned world wide Miriam Makeba? Of course, there is nothing in Michelle Obama's bio that is anything like that, but it also shows how far to the right America has drifted when a liberal like Williams marginalizes and takes out of context the whole fabric and feeling of the 60s and 70s in which Carmichael often was a heroic figure.
Hey, its a black man trying to make money by saying what his pay masters want him to say, so what's new?
Here is my take. Juan Williams is out there reinforcing the meme that MO is some black militant mamma because that's how he makes money. We've got to bust his chops for that.
OTOH, these so-called gangsta rappers are out there reinforcing the meme that black women are all hos and bitches because that's how THEY get paid. We've got to bust THEIR chops for that too.
Either way, because JW won't stop talking and the gangsta rappers won't stop rapping, we will all have plenty of chops busting to do in future.
That is the most awesomely appropriate quoting of Gandalf I've ever seen.
Seriously, what is Juan Williams' deal?
Love her or hate her, Hillary Clinton is a lousy choice for a cautionary tale about the dire fate that awaits a woman who's too aggressive.
Also awesome.
"Keep your forked tongue behind you teeth. I have not passed through fire and death to bandy crooked words with a witless worm.
I would stay still, if I were you..."
Beautiful, just beautiful.
Apologies if I missed the explanation somewhere else, but I cannot for the life of me figure out where the "angry" part in the Angry Black Woman characterization of Michelle came from. I've never - not once - heard or read of her saying something that even hinted at anger, victimization (real or faux), or resentment. What have I missed? The Stokely Carmichael thing is so far removed from the reality of her public persona that I would have assumed it was a joke if I hadn't watch the JW video. The only thing I can think of is that "proud of my country for the first time" statement, but whatever one's take on that (and I thought TNC unpacked it pretty well), it didn't sound angry. Can anybody explain this? Or do these clowns think that "angry" is just part of the phrase "black woman" in the same way that "male" goes with "chauvinist pig" and "commie" prefaces "pinko bastard"?
Harry Truman had it right when he threatened to punch a piano critic in the nose! Williams needs to take a long walk off a short pier.
Perhaps Juan Williams and Fox know this will generate publicity, all the better for their viewership. And it should help bring in conservatives for a group therapy session. We should tun our collective backs on this mindless blather, or call for a boycott of the show.