TNC,
You were really on fire before lowing the temperature with this boring NFL shit. This year superbowl is as boring as McCain campaign of 2008.
There is nothing treasurable about the both team.
I was all set to go against the grain and pick the Arizona Cardinals but then I remembered my old rule. Never pick an NFC team going against an AFC team that runs a 3-4 unless they beat them during the regular season or the NFC team runs a 3-4 also. Back in the day I picked the Patriots to upset the Rams when Warner was there for just that reason. It is simply too hard to get ready for all of the looks and blitzes that a 3-4 defense gives you in a couple of weeks especially if your team is in the NFC where most teams run a 4-3. And its even worse when that 3-4 defense with some beasts at linebacker. I thought that Larry Fitzgerald would have a big game but now after remembering my rule I don't think Warner will have enough time to get the ball to him.
My prediction is the Steelers will get at least 4 sacks and win by at least a touchdown.
As a Colts fan, I'm desperate for DT help. But seems like slim pickings in the interior--lot of aging disappointments and dudes who battle weight problems.
Would love to go after Houshmandzadeh to replace Harrison, though.
Hmmmm, Kurt Warner just appeared on "The Biggest Loser". Foreshadowing or red herring?
While I'm lukewarm on both teams that doesn't matter, it's football and the last real game of the year. Go Football Teams!!! Go Offense!!! Go Defense!!! Special Teams Win Games!!!! Hooray!!!
You keep your greedy little mitts off T.J.! We'll franchise him, piss him off and then not pay him enough the following year. It's the Bengal way so be patient. Chad's up for the highest bidder in 2010 too and I still think he's a viable deep threat in the league.
Yet another year without a dog in the hunt--that's what happens when you're a Saints fan--so I'll hope for a good game and leave it at that. And I'll look forward to next season with the hopes that maybe the Saints will be able to finally hold a team to under 24 points in a game.
Don't get greedy, Brian, you guys were just in an NFC championship two years ago. You guys will probably be back to contention next year. Weren't you crushed by injuries this year?
Hate to take your money, Stacy. Want to reconsider that bet agin the Steelers?
Brian -- sorry that the Saints disappointed, but actually it's hard to find too much sympathy. I'll take New Orleans's cuisine over the kielbasa and pierogies here in Pittsburgh any day.
Stacy,
I am a big Skins fan, but I am not encouraged by the celebrity style of our management. They only go for cash--not for the hard-fought pride of the game. As for the Superbowl, both teams are weak ass. Who is their? What is the storyline, Kurt? I am not buying it.
Ha. I'm going to assume you're a Steelers fan, right? Shouldn't you be happy that I picked the Steelers? I just don't think they're going to cover. You can have the trophy. I'll take my money!
What exactly is it about the Steelers that's weak? Who needs a storyline anyways? Actually, I'll tell you who needs storylines. My girlfriend. Take that for what its worth. (Just kidding Tobby, and any females that might be offended. I know my girl lebecka doesn't need a storyline)
I'm predicting two Boldin TDs. I'm not sure who wins the game, I just know that whenever a guy like Boldin gets labelled as a distraction, he rebounds with a huge game to prove his point. Besides, it would be a good way for him to go into those offseason negotiations.
Ok I'll go with a little absolutism here and say you aren't really a true football fan if you don't find this Super Bowl interesting. It's basically the best defense (maybe the best we've seen in a while. at least the best the Steelers have had since the 70s) vs. a top 3 offense (at least best passing offense) in the game. Great matchup. You have two exciting QBs. Warner is a future HOFamer and can surgically drive down the field. You have Ben who prolongs plays and sometimes they turn out spectacular even if they aren't planned out. And Larry.
I almost always root for the underdog unless my team's playing (who happens to be an underdog nearly every game), but I have a hard time rooting for a team that went 9-7 during the regular season. I just can't see a 9-7 team as the best of the NFL. Yes, they earned repesct after beating the Falcons, Panthers, and Eagles but they're not worthy of the Lombardi Trophy.
I'm a Warner hater, or rather a hater of those who think God cares who wins football games. And so even though I am sure there are Steelers who believe the same thing, I'm going with Pittsburgh.
Its not as bad as August... the draft is only 3 months away!... then august... sigh that does seem like forever and baseball just doesn't do it for me. Too many games/players and too many cubs games happen during working hours.
Anyway about that draft... I am hoping for Raji or an O-lineman in round 1 and then Britt/Nicks in round 2... Any secondary or O-line after that is just gravy.
I am guessing Angelo will do something stupid like draft Sanchez or William Moore (he seems to love injury prone guys)
As for the Superbowl I will take the Cardinals just cause I'm sick of discounting them and supposedly Warner does well against the blitz whereas Big Ben is just ok against the blitz.
I know this is NFL thread but I just saw a clib of The View today where Condi Rice saying she was only mad because people spoke ill of Bush's response to Katrina. What a shame? She is not mad that the government failed miserably in protecting its citizens from such a disaster. Now I see why she was so trusted by the neocon to become NSA to King Bush.
I feel the exact same way. I HATE the Steelers. I hate them with every fiber of my being. But I just can't, in good conscience, support the Cardinals. It's not their record that upsets me, but it is just their four blowout losses to the Patriots, Jets, Vikings, and Eagles during the regular season. When I think of championship teams, I don't want teams that have gotten their clocks cleaned several times (yes, I know that some Super Bowl winning teams have been blown out in the regular season, but none have been blown out as many games as the Cardinals have).
Yeah, they won three games in the playoffs. Yeah, they did what they followed the rules and did what they were supposed to do (ie, win their division and then win the playoff games). But, as much as I like underdogs and upsets, I still want the teams who play in the Super Bowl to be some of the best teams in the regular season. I mean, the regular season has to mean something, right?
What's worse is that it has allowed the Cardinals and the media to play the boring and predictable "everyone's disrespected us" mantra. Ugh. I know there is no alternative to the playoff system (no, I don't want the BCS in the NFL), but I still want the best teams in the Super Bowl.
Does anyone doubt that a healthy Brady would have signified another also ran year for the Steelers? Their D is impressive, but certainly not more so than most Super Bowl winning teams; it's only the pedestrian nature of their offense that makes their defense really stand out.
That said, though it would be good for football (not to mention fans of the Cowboys and 49ers) if the Cardinals would win, it's hard to imagine such an outcome since the Steelers have been a more solid team so far.
However, I have been a fan of the NFL for...oh about 55 years, and while the game could be fun to watch, the whole season this year has been meh, and the championship games populated by teams that nine years out of ten would have been disqualified by then.
As a Colts fan, I'm desperate for DT help. But seems like slim pickings in the interior--lot of aging disappointments and dudes who battle weight problems.
Would love to go after Houshmandzadeh to replace Harrison, though.
Looks like your team and mine are gonna be competing fiercely for several players--Bucs need a big play undertackle (DT) badly, and a productive #2 WR almost as badly.
I'd be happy with Haynesworth or Bernard in FA, one of the top three DTs in the draft, and/or TJ Housh, the best #2 (or #1B) in the game.
And I def. think the Steelers take the Cards. Cards will keep it close, but the defense will eventually get to Kurt Warner and make him cough up some gamechangers.
Their D is impressive, but certainly not more so than most Super Bowl winning teams; it's only the pedestrian nature of their offense that makes their defense really stand out..
Dude, the Steelers D was statistically #1 in the NFL across the board--rush D, pass D, scoring, etc.
"Does anyone doubt that a healthy Brady would have signified another also ran year for the Steelers? Their D is impressive, but certainly not more so than most Super Bowl winning teams; it's only the pedestrian nature of their offense that makes their defense really stand out."
I can't think of a paragraph that could be more wrong. I do not think a healthy Brady would have signified another also ran year, but I guess that's at least debatable. Most Superbowl winning teams have as impressive of a defense? The last Super Bowl winner that comes close is Tampa Bay in '02. And to suggest that a pedestrian offense makes a defense look better is so beyond wrong that its hard to know where to begin.
I can't think of anything funnier than a Skins fan calling the second coming of the Steel Curtain weak ass. Reminds me of Mark Halperin talking about Obama. LOL!
That said, Fitzgerald would normally hold a corner of my heart due to the fact we are both Pitt alumni. However...even he knows he's not getting any love in Steeler Nation this year. And definitely not from this citizen.
This defense, by the accounts of many analysts, will go down as one of the best defenses in history (among the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, and 75 Steelers) if they win. They are statistically #1 in every defensive category except rushing yards per game, which is owned by the Ravens, also a very good defensive team.
Yes, I'm a Steelers fan, but "meh" to this season or this Super Bowl? Have you watched what Larry Fitzgerald can do? Have you ever seen anyone catch a ball at its highest point better than Fitzgerald? I would have to say no. I can't wait to see our defense against Kurt Warner's amazing stat of completions when being blitzed.
And this is in general, cause a friend of mine is an example...if you don't watch football consistently, and skip out on the playoffs if your team isn't in it (in his case, Cincy) but you will watch the Super Bowl, you are not a true football fan. I'm sorry, but anyone that loves football watches it if they have the chance.
What are some predictions you guys have?
Oh, and to tobby:
Please elaborate what you mean by both teams being "weak ass"
"Have you ever seen anyone catch a ball at its highest point better than Fitzgerald?"
Moss, probably. And Andre Johnson is pretty awesome at it as well. But they have about 3" on Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald is definitely a freak. Don't bother with tobby. He's already tried changing the subject. I posted my prediction with the first comment, but people aren't biting...
Ah statistics. The great Dallas and 49er teams didn't dominate the statistics but they were far better than this Steelers defense, and they stayed that way for years. To think this D has anything on the recent Pats is foolishness.
I can remember a year that the Denver Broncos were the number one statistical D in the NFL, and the Niners beat them and their legendary John Elway throwing to the 3 Amigos 55-10 in the Super Bowl. Last year's Giants put the kibosh on the most powerful offense in the NFL in over a decade; I believe a very similar Pittsburgh D had their shot at em and didn't fare so well.
Ronnie Lott all by himself changed the course of one Super Bowl, but no one ever said that the Niners were great on D. The year they clobbered Marino's unstoppable Dolphins, no one said oh they're the greatest defense, even though they had already shut out the Chicago Bears whose next year's team is still lauded as the very greatest D of all. Like Tampa Bay, like the Ravens, this Pittsburgh team has a solid, even inspired defense, but believe me if they were an offensive juggernaut like the 90s Boys, it would be the offense everyone would be talking about.
And finally the dabate goes: the Pats won a eleven games without the best quarterback in the recent history of the game, someone up there with Montana you know, King of January--surely he would have been worth a couple more.
The Chargers an 8-8 team, playing without their best player, their second best player injured? The Ravens? Ho hum. I think they'll beat the regular season 9-7 Cardinals, but it won't extend their glory to do so, except perhaps statistically.
Myself and at least one other person bit on your prediction. You just have to wade through the muck.
As for Fitzgerald I think his ability to go up and get it rivals Moss right now but Moss is just faster which is the only thing that gives him an edge. I love Andre 3000 but he is just about a 1/4 of a step behind them. It would be interesting to see what he could do with an upright and accurate QB though. And don't sleep on Calvin Johnson who may well be the most gifted of the bunch but just doesn't have anyone to get him the ball.
BTW I don't know if you mean 3" in height or in vertical leap but Moss is 6ft4 and Fitzgerald is 6ft3
"The great Dallas and 49er teams didn't dominate the statistics but they were far better than this Steelers defense."
Based on what? You know, without statistics, you're really just spouting an opinion. So I find it a little strange for you to start your post with "ah, statistics." Its kind of like Johnny Cochran starting his defense with, "ah, evidence." Its the damndest thing, huh?
As an Eagles fan, there are a number of things that could be done to make the team better, IMO:
- Philly still needs skill guys. DeSean Jackson looks like he's going to be a damn good receiver if he keeps his head straight, but Kevin Curtis should not be any team's #1 or #2 guy. As a Florida Gators fan, I'd love to see Percy Harvin go here, but I don't think he'd be a good fit for the team. A guy like Darrius Heyward-Bey, who was underutilized at Maryland, could be a possibility. Tight end's another spot where they could improve as well; a guy like Brandon Pettigrew, or maybe even Chase Coffman or James Casey in later rounds, would help here.
- Get a backup RB for Brian Westbrook. His most recent injuries don't scare me, but the wear and tear of the NFL does take its toll after a while. If Philly goes here with their first pick, LeSean McCoy's a great choice. If not, guys like Shonn Greene (good power runner, IMO) and Donald Brown could be good alternatives.
- Address the O-line. The line's solid, but nothing great. Westbrook averaging 4 yards a carry is good, but not much to write home about. I think grabbing a center like Alex Mack would be a good idea for a first round pick, as would Eben Britton.
Ok, now who exactly do you want? Cause even if you want the Steelers to win, its tough cheering against cash.
CitizenE,
No one here is going to argue that Dallas in the 90's and the 9'ers of the 80's had great defenses. But the Patriots? Their Super Bowl season in 2001 was all Tom Brady, except the AFC title game in Pitt when Bledsoe jumped in (but the team rallied behind him when he got crushed in the chest like he did when he was knocked out for the season, bounced up, spiked the ball, and charged 40 yards over 4 plays for the score). Pittsburgh choked and never played great special teams in big games (hence the Brown punt return). Ok, I'm getting off point.
The Patriots ranked overall defense for all the Super Bowl winning teams:
2001: 24
2003: 7
2004: 9
And I am still not totally convinced the Patriots didn't cheat and stole offensive signals from teams.
The Denver-San Fran 55-10 Super Bowl...I totally agree the Denver defense isn't regarded as great even though they were #1 that year, because they didn't win. I, for one, don't think the Patriots of last year are one of the best teams in history. You have to win the championship to be the best.
I could argue that the 76 Steelers were one of the best in history. They had 5 shut outs and 15 consecutive scoreless quarters in a 14 game season, but they didn't even play in the Super Bowl. I would be a hypocrite to call them one of the best like many others do if I still believed you had to win it all.
To echo Juba, Citizen E you are coming off like you got that dro over there.
The recent Pats D's were good no doubt but they didn't have the animals at LB that the Steelers had. The Pats D had a handful of very good to great players in key positions like Samuel at corner and Seymor at DL but over all their selling point was that they played as a team. But make no mistake pound for pound this Steelers D is better. Now they aren't the best in history and I would say they might not be top 5 but they are probably the best since the Ravens D that won the Superbowl the last time it was here in Tampa circa 2000/2001
"Ok, now who exactly do you want? Cause even if you want the Steelers to win, its tough cheering against cash."
Cash Rules Everything Around Me. I'm rooting for the Cardinals to cover AND win. I just don't think they're going to win. I got much love in my heart for Warner, being a Rams fan and all...
Trust me, the Cardinals against anyone else in the league (except for maybe New Orleans) and I would be on the Cards band wagon. I love Fitz (hope he doesn't do too well in this game) and Kurt Warner just seems like an awesome guy.
Maybe next year will be Browns v. Saints. Then again, maybe the Mayan calendar ending on Dec. 21, 2012 will bring about the end of the world.
Allow me to address the phony controversy about the Pats video taping signals. There is exactly one thing they could have profited off from video taping those signals and that is on knowing the personnel packages. Other than that lets look at the facts.
1. The quarterback doesn't get signals anymore, he gets the call in his helmet from the OC
2. The defense usually doesn't break the huddle until after the offense is walking up so even if they stole the defensive signals it wouldn't help them because the offensive call usually would have already been sent in to the offense.
3. The only clear way you could gain from knowing an opponents call is if it was a team that blitzed well and often and you could anticipate where the blitz was coming from and call a play to exploit it. But recievers and QBs are supposed to be able to recognize blitzes anyway by the alignment of the corners, safeties and middle linebackers.
Now why would they do it if they could only glean the personel packages? Well a lot if not most teams run their offensive plays based on which personnel they have in the game. So if a coach knows the signals for the personnel he can make a call reflecting what kind of play they are likely to run out of that set.
Now that is a plus no doubt. But understand this, even teams that don't tape other teams signals send advance scouts to watch upcoming opponents games and all they are there for is to recognize those same personnel signals and report back to the coaches.
That the story got blown up so big was amazing to me because nobody ever asked the question "What could they do with those tapes?" which the answer would resoundingly be "Not much"
Give me one superbowl offense that the recent Ravens, Steelers, or Bucs beat the equal of the Rams' greatest show on turf? MVP quarterback, Hall of Fame running back--the statistically unequalled all purpose running back in the history of the game, perennial all pro wide recievers, awesome offensive line, not just good, but great.
I actually saw not just read about these teams, and I can tell you, that year in, year out the 80s and early 90s Niners and 90s Cowboys had defenses that won football games, and big ones too.
And no the Pats weren't all that great an offense last year were they? You guys, talk on and on. Until they got old, in January I'd take that Pats linebacking corps and secondary any day of the week--they won when it counted and did so year in and year out.
Buckhalter has been hurt too much to be truly underappreciated. The guy's good when he's healthy, which isn't often. The Iggles do need some new blood in that backfield, outside out of Mr. Westbrook, of course.
I would love to see the Steelers win, but I think Whisenhunt and Grimm may have a few too many tricks up their sleeves. Also, will Big Ben be so eager to make up for his dismal performance in XL that he ends up turning Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie into a superstar?
If there wasn't a big benefit, why risk doing it? If they couldn't achieve an in-game advantage, why would they do it? I agree that its not nearly as big a deal as the media made it out to be, but I also don't think its quite as innocent as you make it seem. Teams may send advance scouts, but that doesn't mean the Jets didn't change up their signals from the game before, and especially the season before.
Good post. Yes, I am a conspiracy theorist, it keeps my brain functioning. Like doing cross word puzzles I guess. But it is kind of funny to hear the Rams players talk about how it seemed the Pats D knew exactly what they were doing.
By the way, checked out your blog. Good work. When you see the new follow, its suite436
CitizenE
Steelers. 2005. The "unstoppable" 14-2 Indianapolis Colts, divisional round. And this D is better than the one from 05.
MVP quarterback: Peyton Manning
Edge James: Possible HOFer
Receivers: Stokely, Harrison, Wayne, with the later 2 probably ending up in the HOF, definitely Harrison.
Bucs. 2002. Oakland had the NFL MVP who passed for over 4700 yards, the #1 ranked passing offense, #5 ranked rushing offense, Jerry Rice and Tim Brown, HOFers.
You might not remember this but I do because I was there. The Bucs Defense held the greatest show on turf to a touchdown and a field goal and holding them to 309 yards in the NFC championship game the year the Rams won the Superbowl with absolutely no help from their offense. In contrast the Patriots D allowed 17 points in the Superbowl that they beat the Rams and 427 yeards. So by your metrics the Bucs D of 2000 is better than the Patriots D of 2001 Give me a damn break man.
To answer your question as to why the did it I can tell you its because Bellicheck is a meticulous asshole in the best sense of the phrase. There isn't anything too small tht will give him an advantage that he won't go after. But bigger than that, EVERYBODY tapes signals. The only thing he did wrong was putting someone in a position to get a better look at the signals.
I can tell you that I coached on the collegiate level for a year and we did it too. And thats why I can really speak to how little it actually helps in practice. And then I can take it a step further. You can't use the tape during the game anyway so the biggest benefit for Bellicheck would be to teams in their division that they play twice a year. But usually they are already familiar enough with those teams that they can recognize their signals anyway. And that won't help them with the other half of their schedule. On the college level at least they play the bulk of their schedule against the same conference opponents every year so it makes more sense to do it then.
Basically like I said the way for you or anybody else to wrap your mind around how inconsequential it is would be to ask yourself how Bellicheck could use the information to help his team when as I pointed out the offense doesn't even use signals anymore. And the defense comes out too late.
You're exactly right. Plus, since you were there, what was the reaction to that bull shit call of the Bert Emanuel catch overturned. At least that is how I saw it.
Damn, I must be the oldest person who comes here. 'Cuz there ain't one of the teams you guys are flogging as the "greatest of all time" that wouldn't get crushed like cheap soda pop cans by the '70s Steelers. I know. I was there.
"You can't use the tape during the game anyway so the biggest benefit for Bellicheck would be to teams in their division that they play twice a year."
Again, I don't agree with this. You could run a tape to another room after the first quarter to be reviewed for halftime. I don't need to wrap my mind around this. Its clear to me. Also, they weren't just doing this for division teams that they play twice a year. The first time they were reprimanded for this was a game against the Packers. The Patriots are scheduled to play the Packers once every four years. Now granted, it could be more with the way the schedule plays out, but you get my point. I think you are the one that needs to start wrapping the mind around it.
"On the college level at least they play the bulk of their schedule against the same conference opponents every year so it makes more sense to do it then."
My high school team didn't even use the same signals from one year to the next. College teams definitely don't. And if they don't, they're dumb. Because like you said, everybody does it, and everybody knows that everybody does it. It doesn't make sense.
No you seriously can not watch a tape at halftime and that is the absolute unadulterated truth. There simply is not enough time.
As for signals, yeah high school teams change their signals for plays, what I am talking about is signals for personnel. And most teams don't take the time to change signals for personnel groups from game to game. Look if you don't want to believe it thats fine. But the truth is still the truth.
I still haven't gotten over it and I don't know any real Buc fan who has. But the truth is there is no guarantee that our offense would have scored. We had already had our share of miracles just to get to that game by coming back and beating the Deadskins the week before so perhaps it was just karma catching up to us.
Sorry, sgwhite, you are wrong. And you avoided my main point.
1.Why the fuck did they film the Green Bay Packers if there was no in-game advantage? Don't even try. There is no good answer to this.
2.And you can't tell me that assistants can't watch film at halftime. Sorry there is enough time.
3. Teams obviously change their personnel signals from season to season. You suggested it would be a good idea in college because they play the same conference every year? Give me a break.
Assistants could take film from the other teams first two possesions, go back to a film room, and watch the tape until the 4th quarter. Just a thought. But I'm sure you'll have some insider information why that's impossible. Even though its clearly not.
You do realize that filming the signals wasn't what was illegal right? It was WHERE HE WAS STANDING when he was filming the signals that was the problem. Thats why Bellicheck never had to apologize for filming anything. He had to apologize for telling the guy to go to that particular area to do it. Please remember that he went undefeated last year in the regular season AFTER the controversy came out. That should tell you how important it was.....or wasn't
I noticed you avoided my question. Nice. I know you hate it when others do that. But I wouldn't expect you to concede a point, considering I've never seen you do it before.
Good point about the Pats holding the greatest show on turf to only 17 pts and scoring a TD to go with it. That Rams squad put up 31 pts a game in the regular season. The Pats gave up 17 pts a game and were 24th in total yards. But they did have 22 interceptions and they played great down the stretch of that season and in the playoffs. But were they consistently dominating like the Steelers D has been this year?
Remember Ben throws his share of ints, our top RB was hurt for a while this year, our offensive line is below average, and our punter is horrible. This defense has not only had to overcome other offenses, but their own as well. And they have played the Pats, Colts, Chargers, Giants (when the Giant offense was heating up, and Steelers were without McFadden and Clark) and Ravens (who put up big numbers throughout the second half). Those are good offenses with good QBs and WRs.
But we will have to see how they do against this great passing attack (whose running game has improved). If they can match the type of game the Pats had in that SB, I think you can say this defense is better. More dominating, a better defensive coordinator, as critical to the teams success and better position players while still have a good team defense. The Pats had a good team defense too. I would say that team probably had a better secondary in terms of ball hawking and getting picks, but this Steelers team did have 20 ints in the reg. season. This pass rush is far better than the 01 Pats.
All in all, I would still take this Pittsburgh defense over the 01 Pats, but they aren't far behind. Both may land in the top ten of all time if we go back and list them. BUT STEELERS GOTTA GET IT DONE SUNDAY OR THAT'S ALL OUT THE WINDOW.
Yeah, you make a good point, and maybe karma is what it was. But it sucks the refs decided whether the Bucs had an extra 11 yards to score or not and not the Bucs. Sadly, that game played a huge part in destroying Sean King's career. Yes, he helped himself do that, but I liked him at Tulane. I just felt bad.
Branden is right, I forgot about the Steelers 05 defense which was terrific as well and won a Super Bowl. And I agree, this version is even better than that one.
Sorry, sgwhite, you are wrong. And you avoided my main point.
1.Why the fuck did they film the Green Bay Packers if there was no in-game advantage? Don't even try. There is no good answer to this.
I have already answered this one and told you that it was SOP. Again if you don't want to believe it thats on you. But you could make your case a lot stronger if you could come up with a team that they didn't tape. That would mean they were selective about it and only chose the stronger teams to target. Holla at me when you find any evidence of that. I won't hold my breath.
2.And you can't tell me that assistants can't watch film at halftime. Sorry there is enough time.
Actually I can tell you that and I am. Again I know from personal experience. Most times at half time there is just enough time for all the coaches to meet with the Head Coach then for the Defensive coaches and Offensive coaches to break off together then take the plan for the second half to the team. Again you don't have to believe it but its the truth.
3. Teams obviously change their personnel signals from season to season. You suggested it would be a good idea in college because they play the same conference every year? Give me a break.
Please tell me how you know this. Because I can promise you that I know for a fact, not a guess that you are wrong.
Now I know you feel strongly about this, its obvious in your responses. I tried to end the convo earlier, not avoid your question because you aren't going to be swayed anyway. But if you have more questions I will give you plenty more answers.
Assistants could take film from the other teams first two possesions, go back to a film room, and watch the tape until the 4th quarter. Just a thought. But I'm sure you'll have some insider information why that's impossible. Even though its clearly not.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. And who is going to coach the team in the meantime? Or do you mean the coaches in the booth who are governed by strict rules about what they can and can't bring in the press box and where they can go during a game? They can't even have a Tee Vee on in their press box except for a monitor that shows replays with no sound. Dude seriously you have no idea how silly what you just suggested is but I am on the floor right now.
A big test for the Cards will be the second half. Steelers own that half. And all of Fitz's TDs have come in the first half. Once LeBeau and the guys dial it up after making those halftime adjustments, all hell is gonna break lose.
Stacyq...nostalgia? Bwahahaha. No, sorry. No need to feel nostalgic when you have a team that is consistently one of the best in the league. Facts is facts. They had to change the entire rulebook to deal with it. Without the Steel Curtain, the 9ers would never have won a single Lombardi.
"I have already answered this one and told you that it was SOP. Again if you don't want to believe it thats on you. But you could make your case a lot stronger if you could come up with a team that they didn't tape. That would mean they were selective about it and only chose the stronger teams to target. Holla at me when you find any evidence of that. I won't hold my breath."
You still don't get it. If there was no in-game advantage to the filming, there would be no reason the film the Packers. You are wrong about this. Standard operating procedure? You can do better than that, sg.
"Please tell me how you know this. Because I can promise you that I know for a fact, not a guess that you are wrong."
You can tell me for a fact that college teams don't change their signals in between seasons? Yet all the teams are aware that other teams film their signals? I'm sorry, but you are delusional. That is seriously insulting that you expect people to believe that. But hey, thanks for the "promise."
"Dude seriously you have no idea how silly what you just suggested is but I am on the floor right now."
Go ahead and get up off the floor, sg. I'm not talking about the coordinators or even the coaches. You have one guy filming and one guy reviewing the film. That is not difficult. No one ever has to leave the booth. Your fake "lol's" and things are really childish.
Seriously, sg, I think you are a pretty smart dude. But the know-it-all shtick gets old pretty quickly. You act like every opinion of yours is gospel. As though someone can promise they KNOW that college teams never change their signals from season to season. I mean, seriously? Good god. I've never seen you admit to being wrong except the one time you thought there were 2 timeouts per half in the NFL. Which, coming from someone who claims to know how every NFL and college coaching staff operates, seems pretty telling.
Yes I am still on the floor. But it really serves no purpose to continue the argument because I am talking about facts and you are talking about guessing. It is funny to me how a little while back you said I have NEVER conceded a point but now you yourself bring up a time I did concede a point. But its cool. Again I have answered all of your questions but you haven't answered any of mine. You are going to believe whatever you want about the filming but you still havent even once give an example of what advantage it could possibly give them. It is what it is man.
P.S. Please Please Please keep repeating that notion about a generic "assistant" scurrying off to watch film during a game and then somehow getting the information to the "real" coaches so they can put together a diabolical game plan on the fly. That one is a keeper!
I believe that filming can give you an in-game advantage. If it didn't, why would they possibly risk the punishment for a game in Lambeau? In case the Packers are still using the same signals four years later? I know, based on your coaching experience, that you KNOW teams don't change their personnel signals from season to another. But I suppose I'll just GUESS that they do. So, based on the fact that the filming gives an advantage during the game, I'm simply guessing how it might be done. See, I don't pretend to know everything about everything. That's your SOP.
I've never seen someone claim that opinions are facts. You've brought no facts to my attention in which I wasn't already aware.
P.S. Please Please Please keep repeating that you know for a fact that college teams don't change signals from one season to the next. Really, that one is a keeper!!!
It's strangely impressive that a fight has broken out over the Patriots and their... how shall we put this ... taping experience - and LarryMoeandJesus hasn't even said a word. Truly, we live in a strange age.
As for the game in question, I would like the Cards to win, but I reckon the Steelers will triumph by 6-8 points. For me they are slightly better as a complete team, and I don't think Arizona will fully succeed in giving Warner the protection he needs.
One thing that's being neglected among all the Warner-beats-the-blitz comments, is that the Steelers get most of their best pressure WITHOUT BLITZING. IE- they get pressure by the line and force the QB into a no win situation because the receivers are all covered. This is why I think their defense is so much better than a couple years ago when they were constantly bringing blitzes, but a good QB (Brady especially) could hurt them badly downfield. And while their offense stats aren't overwhelming, they are still no joke. Willie Parker, Santonio Holmes, Hines Ward, Heath Miller. And Big Ben's legs.
The other thing to remember is that while everyone loves to point to the Cards beating the Steelers in '07, that was a pretty evenly matched game with the main difference being a big special teams play by the Cards, that made the difference. And although the Steelers always have good D, their D is way more fierce this year than it was in '07.
For those complaining of lack of storyline: Mike Tomlin. Young, smart, real, loves defense, respectful of the players, no drama. A coach that most athletes would love to play for. And a better coach than Cowher (who loved to make WTF decisions at big moments that rarely worked.)
I see this game going down like the BCS Championship game. The Steelers will punish the Cardinals WRs early and by the second half they won't want to catch the ball. Even though he's a warrior, I don't think Boldin has yet recovered psychologically from the broken face he suffered earlier in the season.
Interesting that neither team is a great rushing team. The Steelers are 23rd in the league and the Cardinals are dead last.
The coaching matchups are also intriguing. Dick LeBeau may be the best defensive mind in the history of the league, but Whisenhunt knows his tendencies. Arizona beat the Steelers 21-14 last year.
I have a hard time rooting for a team that went 9-7 during the regular season. I just can't see a 9-7 team as the best of the NFL. Yes, they earned repesct after beating the Falcons, Panthers, and Eagles but they're not worthy of the Lombardi Trophy.
I think this is just absurd. If you march through the playoffs and end up beating two of the top 3 defenses in the NFL (Eagles & Steelers), and demolish one of the top two seeds in their own house (where they were previously unbeaten), I don't see how the case that can be made that you're not worthy.
This game will be interesting to watch for the simple fact it will demonstrate that tackling is an important skill for a free safety. Warner throws a lot of short passes, and the Cards get their yards after the catch. So watch the whole game and not just the highlights, and see why the Steelers are lucky they have Ryan Clark and not "the best safety in the league" who can't tackle.
A team that gives up as many big plays as the Ravens and Ed Reed would not beat the Cardinals.
Fact 1: Fitz will always catch the ball. If Warner gets it off, Fitz will bring it down. The 'lers, god love 'em, don't have a corner that can keep up with him, or match the height advantage.
Edge: Cards
Fact 2: Warner is no spring chicken. If he gets hit hard, early, and often he will be worthless by half time. It happened all season. Sack Warner and he makes mistakes and throws picks.
Edge: Steelers
Fact 3: Ben gets nervous. This is his second time at the big show, but he still gets happy feet and throws picks, or gets sacked, when he's not focused. Warner is a true vet - he won't get nervous no matter what.
Edge: Cards
Fact 4: Willie Parker is mighty mouse. He's fast when there's a hole but is just not big enough to make one himself. Expect little from the run game.
Edge: Cards
Fact 5: The Cards are daisies. They haven't faced off against a single team this year that hits or hustles like the Steelers. By contrast, the Steelers played the Ravens three times, and the Ravens are evil, monstrous, barbarians compared to... well... anyone except the Steelers. The Cards have no concept of the amount of pain heading their way.
Edge: Steelers
Fact 6: Steelers are at their healthiest in months. Hines has had two good weeks to get that knee in shape. Troy looked good against the Ravens and has had a nice rest. Ben seems to be able to remember his name and what team he's on for a change. The Cards are healthy too; but they should worry about the Steelers playing with a full aresenal. They beat the Ravens without Ward. Imagine what they can do with him.
Edge: Steelers
Overall: I think its much closer than people are saying. I give it to the Steelers only on the assumption that the D is going to grind up Warner's offense early, giving the Steelers lack-luster O a good long time to wrack up enough points to pull out the win. I'm pretty confident in this prediction because that's how the Steelers have been successful all season, and there's little reason to think the Cards are tough enough to be the team that breaks the streak. If the Ravens weren't able to do it, I just can't imagine the Cards pulling it out.
You must have watched the Steelers all year because you are on point. I mostly agree. I will say that I think Parker can have a good game, even near 100 yards on the ground. I think the Panthers would have ran more, and ran well, if they weren't down so early. If he can't get it down they need to be willing to throw to Moore for five yards or Heath Miller. Get those key yards on first if you are only going to run for 1 or 2 with Willie. The Cards run defense doesn't seem daunting but if they have to, use the pass to set up the run instead of always vice versa.
Hines is very very important. I get nervous thinking about how he will only be maybe 75 percent at best. He will play, but I'm not sure how effective he can be.
Ben is shaky at times. If he is throwing the ball away early instead of tossing it up or taking sacks I will feel much better.
As for bringing the pain...the Cards may have thought the Eagles were tough. Ha. Ha.
I think if the Steelers go into the half with a lead, or only down by 7 or less, they should be able to pull it out. They are a great second half team. They get stronger as it goes on.
Seriously though, my prediction is Steelers by 13.
The Bert Emanuel "bullshit" referee call sucked, but the referee was correct to rule it incomplete. Heck, it's the reason they changed the rule.
As for the Philly fan complaining about having kevin Curtis as a #1 or 2 receiver, did u watch ur team in the playoffs? Typical Philly fan, always whining about his team!
The Cardinals are going to win 50-20. By half-time the score is going to be 28-3 and the Steelers are going to play catch up. This will be over by half-time. But you guys can dream.
Here's a piece no one cared about. Meh, whatever, probably the most enjoyable article I did during my stint at TIME. Premiered a month before I got laid-off. The nail in the coffin? Ya think?
Here's me going after Al. I didn't so much have a problem with him, as I had a problem with media acting like this dude was the go-to guy for everything black.
This was my first real story at time. I was writing for the Business section, a real change of direction for me. At any rate, it's about Wal-Mart's attempts to colonize the inner-city. As much as I enjoyed this piece, I mostly enjoyed going out to Chicago, which is a beautiful, beautiful city.
This a piece I did about the cops just outside our nation capitol, in Prince George's County, a few years back. I wanted to offer a counter to the dumb, conventional wisdom that if you paint your police force black, you could eradicate police brutality. In fact, Prince George's--one of the richest, blackest counties in the country--also had one of the most brutal police force's in the country.
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
I think the Steelers are going to win, but I'll take the Cardinals and a TD for betting purposes.
21-16
TNC,
You were really on fire before lowing the temperature with this boring NFL shit. This year superbowl is as boring as McCain campaign of 2008.
There is nothing treasurable about the both team.
"There is nothing treasurable about the both team."
Huh? Who the hell are you, Tony Kornheiser? My guess is you don't actually like football.
I was all set to go against the grain and pick the Arizona Cardinals but then I remembered my old rule. Never pick an NFC team going against an AFC team that runs a 3-4 unless they beat them during the regular season or the NFC team runs a 3-4 also. Back in the day I picked the Patriots to upset the Rams when Warner was there for just that reason. It is simply too hard to get ready for all of the looks and blitzes that a 3-4 defense gives you in a couple of weeks especially if your team is in the NFC where most teams run a 4-3. And its even worse when that 3-4 defense with some beasts at linebacker. I thought that Larry Fitzgerald would have a big game but now after remembering my rule I don't think Warner will have enough time to get the ball to him.
My prediction is the Steelers will get at least 4 sacks and win by at least a touchdown.
Forget the Super Bowl--let's talk free agency:
http://www.footballsfuture.com/freeagents.html
As a Colts fan, I'm desperate for DT help. But seems like slim pickings in the interior--lot of aging disappointments and dudes who battle weight problems.
Would love to go after Houshmandzadeh to replace Harrison, though.
Hmmmm, Kurt Warner just appeared on "The Biggest Loser". Foreshadowing or red herring?
While I'm lukewarm on both teams that doesn't matter, it's football and the last real game of the year. Go Football Teams!!! Go Offense!!! Go Defense!!! Special Teams Win Games!!!! Hooray!!!
Sigh. August seems so far away. :(
Brendan,
You keep your greedy little mitts off T.J.! We'll franchise him, piss him off and then not pay him enough the following year. It's the Bengal way so be patient. Chad's up for the highest bidder in 2010 too and I still think he's a viable deep threat in the league.
Sigh again.
Yet another year without a dog in the hunt--that's what happens when you're a Saints fan--so I'll hope for a good game and leave it at that. And I'll look forward to next season with the hopes that maybe the Saints will be able to finally hold a team to under 24 points in a game.
Don't get greedy, Brian, you guys were just in an NFC championship two years ago. You guys will probably be back to contention next year. Weren't you crushed by injuries this year?
Hate to take your money, Stacy. Want to reconsider that bet agin the Steelers?
Brian -- sorry that the Saints disappointed, but actually it's hard to find too much sympathy. I'll take New Orleans's cuisine over the kielbasa and pierogies here in Pittsburgh any day.
Stacy,
I am a big Skins fan, but I am not encouraged by the celebrity style of our management. They only go for cash--not for the hard-fought pride of the game. As for the Superbowl, both teams are weak ass. Who is their? What is the storyline, Kurt? I am not buying it.
lebecka,
Ha. I'm going to assume you're a Steelers fan, right? Shouldn't you be happy that I picked the Steelers? I just don't think they're going to cover. You can have the trophy. I'll take my money!
Tobby,
What exactly is it about the Steelers that's weak? Who needs a storyline anyways? Actually, I'll tell you who needs storylines. My girlfriend. Take that for what its worth. (Just kidding Tobby, and any females that might be offended. I know my girl lebecka doesn't need a storyline)
I'm predicting two Boldin TDs. I'm not sure who wins the game, I just know that whenever a guy like Boldin gets labelled as a distraction, he rebounds with a huge game to prove his point. Besides, it would be a good way for him to go into those offseason negotiations.
Fire Andy Reid!
Donovon to Minnesota in 09!
Ok I'll go with a little absolutism here and say you aren't really a true football fan if you don't find this Super Bowl interesting. It's basically the best defense (maybe the best we've seen in a while. at least the best the Steelers have had since the 70s) vs. a top 3 offense (at least best passing offense) in the game. Great matchup. You have two exciting QBs. Warner is a future HOFamer and can surgically drive down the field. You have Ben who prolongs plays and sometimes they turn out spectacular even if they aren't planned out. And Larry.
AND THAT DEFENSE!!!
Steeler Nation baby!
I almost always root for the underdog unless my team's playing (who happens to be an underdog nearly every game), but I have a hard time rooting for a team that went 9-7 during the regular season. I just can't see a 9-7 team as the best of the NFL. Yes, they earned repesct after beating the Falcons, Panthers, and Eagles but they're not worthy of the Lombardi Trophy.
Rules...where we're going we don't need rules.
I'm a Warner hater, or rather a hater of those who think God cares who wins football games. And so even though I am sure there are Steelers who believe the same thing, I'm going with Pittsburgh.
Its not as bad as August... the draft is only 3 months away!... then august... sigh that does seem like forever and baseball just doesn't do it for me. Too many games/players and too many cubs games happen during working hours.
Anyway about that draft... I am hoping for Raji or an O-lineman in round 1 and then Britt/Nicks in round 2... Any secondary or O-line after that is just gravy.
I am guessing Angelo will do something stupid like draft Sanchez or William Moore (he seems to love injury prone guys)
As for the Superbowl I will take the Cardinals just cause I'm sick of discounting them and supposedly Warner does well against the blitz whereas Big Ben is just ok against the blitz.
I know this is NFL thread but I just saw a clib of The View today where Condi Rice saying she was only mad because people spoke ill of Bush's response to Katrina. What a shame? She is not mad that the government failed miserably in protecting its citizens from such a disaster. Now I see why she was so trusted by the neocon to become NSA to King Bush.
I like Larry Fitzgerald, but that's about it.
Thomas H,
I feel the exact same way. I HATE the Steelers. I hate them with every fiber of my being. But I just can't, in good conscience, support the Cardinals. It's not their record that upsets me, but it is just their four blowout losses to the Patriots, Jets, Vikings, and Eagles during the regular season. When I think of championship teams, I don't want teams that have gotten their clocks cleaned several times (yes, I know that some Super Bowl winning teams have been blown out in the regular season, but none have been blown out as many games as the Cardinals have).
Yeah, they won three games in the playoffs. Yeah, they did what they followed the rules and did what they were supposed to do (ie, win their division and then win the playoff games). But, as much as I like underdogs and upsets, I still want the teams who play in the Super Bowl to be some of the best teams in the regular season. I mean, the regular season has to mean something, right?
What's worse is that it has allowed the Cardinals and the media to play the boring and predictable "everyone's disrespected us" mantra. Ugh. I know there is no alternative to the playoff system (no, I don't want the BCS in the NFL), but I still want the best teams in the Super Bowl.
Does anyone doubt that a healthy Brady would have signified another also ran year for the Steelers? Their D is impressive, but certainly not more so than most Super Bowl winning teams; it's only the pedestrian nature of their offense that makes their defense really stand out.
That said, though it would be good for football (not to mention fans of the Cowboys and 49ers) if the Cardinals would win, it's hard to imagine such an outcome since the Steelers have been a more solid team so far.
However, I have been a fan of the NFL for...oh about 55 years, and while the game could be fun to watch, the whole season this year has been meh, and the championship games populated by teams that nine years out of ten would have been disqualified by then.
GO STILLERS!!!
I'm just happy I get an excuse to go back to the 'Burgh, get toasty, and drunk dial my ex, er, socialize with my friends.
Brendan,
Looks like your team and mine are gonna be competing fiercely for several players--Bucs need a big play undertackle (DT) badly, and a productive #2 WR almost as badly.
I'd be happy with Haynesworth or Bernard in FA, one of the top three DTs in the draft, and/or TJ Housh, the best #2 (or #1B) in the game.
And I def. think the Steelers take the Cards. Cards will keep it close, but the defense will eventually get to Kurt Warner and make him cough up some gamechangers.
Citizen E,
Dude, the Steelers D was statistically #1 in the NFL across the board--rush D, pass D, scoring, etc.
I think you are severely underestimating them.
"Does anyone doubt that a healthy Brady would have signified another also ran year for the Steelers? Their D is impressive, but certainly not more so than most Super Bowl winning teams; it's only the pedestrian nature of their offense that makes their defense really stand out."
I can't think of a paragraph that could be more wrong. I do not think a healthy Brady would have signified another also ran year, but I guess that's at least debatable. Most Superbowl winning teams have as impressive of a defense? The last Super Bowl winner that comes close is Tampa Bay in '02. And to suggest that a pedestrian offense makes a defense look better is so beyond wrong that its hard to know where to begin.
I can't think of anything funnier than a Skins fan calling the second coming of the Steel Curtain weak ass. Reminds me of Mark Halperin talking about Obama. LOL!
That said, Fitzgerald would normally hold a corner of my heart due to the fact we are both Pitt alumni. However...even he knows he's not getting any love in Steeler Nation this year. And definitely not from this citizen.
Steelers by 7.
To CitizenE,
This defense, by the accounts of many analysts, will go down as one of the best defenses in history (among the 85 Bears, 2000 Ravens, and 75 Steelers) if they win. They are statistically #1 in every defensive category except rushing yards per game, which is owned by the Ravens, also a very good defensive team.
Yes, I'm a Steelers fan, but "meh" to this season or this Super Bowl? Have you watched what Larry Fitzgerald can do? Have you ever seen anyone catch a ball at its highest point better than Fitzgerald? I would have to say no. I can't wait to see our defense against Kurt Warner's amazing stat of completions when being blitzed.
And this is in general, cause a friend of mine is an example...if you don't watch football consistently, and skip out on the playoffs if your team isn't in it (in his case, Cincy) but you will watch the Super Bowl, you are not a true football fan. I'm sorry, but anyone that loves football watches it if they have the chance.
What are some predictions you guys have?
Oh, and to tobby:
Please elaborate what you mean by both teams being "weak ass"
"Have you ever seen anyone catch a ball at its highest point better than Fitzgerald?"
Moss, probably. And Andre Johnson is pretty awesome at it as well. But they have about 3" on Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald is definitely a freak. Don't bother with tobby. He's already tried changing the subject. I posted my prediction with the first comment, but people aren't biting...
Ah statistics. The great Dallas and 49er teams didn't dominate the statistics but they were far better than this Steelers defense, and they stayed that way for years. To think this D has anything on the recent Pats is foolishness.
I can remember a year that the Denver Broncos were the number one statistical D in the NFL, and the Niners beat them and their legendary John Elway throwing to the 3 Amigos 55-10 in the Super Bowl. Last year's Giants put the kibosh on the most powerful offense in the NFL in over a decade; I believe a very similar Pittsburgh D had their shot at em and didn't fare so well.
Ronnie Lott all by himself changed the course of one Super Bowl, but no one ever said that the Niners were great on D. The year they clobbered Marino's unstoppable Dolphins, no one said oh they're the greatest defense, even though they had already shut out the Chicago Bears whose next year's team is still lauded as the very greatest D of all. Like Tampa Bay, like the Ravens, this Pittsburgh team has a solid, even inspired defense, but believe me if they were an offensive juggernaut like the 90s Boys, it would be the offense everyone would be talking about.
And finally the dabate goes: the Pats won a eleven games without the best quarterback in the recent history of the game, someone up there with Montana you know, King of January--surely he would have been worth a couple more.
The Chargers an 8-8 team, playing without their best player, their second best player injured? The Ravens? Ho hum. I think they'll beat the regular season 9-7 Cardinals, but it won't extend their glory to do so, except perhaps statistically.
Stacy
Myself and at least one other person bit on your prediction. You just have to wade through the muck.
As for Fitzgerald I think his ability to go up and get it rivals Moss right now but Moss is just faster which is the only thing that gives him an edge. I love Andre 3000 but he is just about a 1/4 of a step behind them. It would be interesting to see what he could do with an upright and accurate QB though. And don't sleep on Calvin Johnson who may well be the most gifted of the bunch but just doesn't have anyone to get him the ball.
BTW I don't know if you mean 3" in height or in vertical leap but Moss is 6ft4 and Fitzgerald is 6ft3
"To think this D has anything on the recent Pats is foolishness."
I'd like a little of whatever you're smoking. The Pats defenses of the last few years were extremely vulnerable to the run, for starters.
"The great Dallas and 49er teams didn't dominate the statistics but they were far better than this Steelers defense."
Based on what? You know, without statistics, you're really just spouting an opinion. So I find it a little strange for you to start your post with "ah, statistics." Its kind of like Johnny Cochran starting his defense with, "ah, evidence." Its the damndest thing, huh?
As an Eagles fan, there are a number of things that could be done to make the team better, IMO:
- Philly still needs skill guys. DeSean Jackson looks like he's going to be a damn good receiver if he keeps his head straight, but Kevin Curtis should not be any team's #1 or #2 guy. As a Florida Gators fan, I'd love to see Percy Harvin go here, but I don't think he'd be a good fit for the team. A guy like Darrius Heyward-Bey, who was underutilized at Maryland, could be a possibility. Tight end's another spot where they could improve as well; a guy like Brandon Pettigrew, or maybe even Chase Coffman or James Casey in later rounds, would help here.
- Get a backup RB for Brian Westbrook. His most recent injuries don't scare me, but the wear and tear of the NFL does take its toll after a while. If Philly goes here with their first pick, LeSean McCoy's a great choice. If not, guys like Shonn Greene (good power runner, IMO) and Donald Brown could be good alternatives.
- Address the O-line. The line's solid, but nothing great. Westbrook averaging 4 yards a carry is good, but not much to write home about. I think grabbing a center like Alex Mack would be a good idea for a first round pick, as would Eben Britton.
As for a SB prediction:
Pittsburgh 23
Arizona 17
My bad, sg. I thought Moss was 6'5" and Larry Fitzgerald was about 6'2". Damn, Moss is a freak. I guess I just always assumed he was a bit taller...
Stacy,
Ok, now who exactly do you want? Cause even if you want the Steelers to win, its tough cheering against cash.
CitizenE,
No one here is going to argue that Dallas in the 90's and the 9'ers of the 80's had great defenses. But the Patriots? Their Super Bowl season in 2001 was all Tom Brady, except the AFC title game in Pitt when Bledsoe jumped in (but the team rallied behind him when he got crushed in the chest like he did when he was knocked out for the season, bounced up, spiked the ball, and charged 40 yards over 4 plays for the score). Pittsburgh choked and never played great special teams in big games (hence the Brown punt return). Ok, I'm getting off point.
The Patriots ranked overall defense for all the Super Bowl winning teams:
2001: 24
2003: 7
2004: 9
And I am still not totally convinced the Patriots didn't cheat and stole offensive signals from teams.
The Denver-San Fran 55-10 Super Bowl...I totally agree the Denver defense isn't regarded as great even though they were #1 that year, because they didn't win. I, for one, don't think the Patriots of last year are one of the best teams in history. You have to win the championship to be the best.
I could argue that the 76 Steelers were one of the best in history. They had 5 shut outs and 15 consecutive scoreless quarters in a 14 game season, but they didn't even play in the Super Bowl. I would be a hypocrite to call them one of the best like many others do if I still believed you had to win it all.
Sorry for the rant. Very unorganized.
To echo Juba, Citizen E you are coming off like you got that dro over there.
The recent Pats D's were good no doubt but they didn't have the animals at LB that the Steelers had. The Pats D had a handful of very good to great players in key positions like Samuel at corner and Seymor at DL but over all their selling point was that they played as a team. But make no mistake pound for pound this Steelers D is better. Now they aren't the best in history and I would say they might not be top 5 but they are probably the best since the Ravens D that won the Superbowl the last time it was here in Tampa circa 2000/2001
"Tight end's another spot where they could improve as well..."
You guys are't happy with what Celek has done? Dude looked like a beast in the playoffs.
"Get a backup RB for Brian Westbrook."
I think the backup you got is pretty darn good. I don't watch as much Eagles as you, obviously, but I always thought Buckhalter was underappreciated.
"Ok, now who exactly do you want? Cause even if you want the Steelers to win, its tough cheering against cash."
Cash Rules Everything Around Me. I'm rooting for the Cardinals to cover AND win. I just don't think they're going to win. I got much love in my heart for Warner, being a Rams fan and all...
what's the vegas line on the game??
Since I was rooting for the Ravens, I don't really care who wins. But I'll go ahead and cheer on the Cards, for obvious reasons :D
Stacy,
Trust me, the Cardinals against anyone else in the league (except for maybe New Orleans) and I would be on the Cards band wagon. I love Fitz (hope he doesn't do too well in this game) and Kurt Warner just seems like an awesome guy.
Maybe next year will be Browns v. Saints. Then again, maybe the Mayan calendar ending on Dec. 21, 2012 will bring about the end of the world.
Branden
Allow me to address the phony controversy about the Pats video taping signals. There is exactly one thing they could have profited off from video taping those signals and that is on knowing the personnel packages. Other than that lets look at the facts.
1. The quarterback doesn't get signals anymore, he gets the call in his helmet from the OC
2. The defense usually doesn't break the huddle until after the offense is walking up so even if they stole the defensive signals it wouldn't help them because the offensive call usually would have already been sent in to the offense.
3. The only clear way you could gain from knowing an opponents call is if it was a team that blitzed well and often and you could anticipate where the blitz was coming from and call a play to exploit it. But recievers and QBs are supposed to be able to recognize blitzes anyway by the alignment of the corners, safeties and middle linebackers.
Now why would they do it if they could only glean the personel packages? Well a lot if not most teams run their offensive plays based on which personnel they have in the game. So if a coach knows the signals for the personnel he can make a call reflecting what kind of play they are likely to run out of that set.
Now that is a plus no doubt. But understand this, even teams that don't tape other teams signals send advance scouts to watch upcoming opponents games and all they are there for is to recognize those same personnel signals and report back to the coaches.
That the story got blown up so big was amazing to me because nobody ever asked the question "What could they do with those tapes?" which the answer would resoundingly be "Not much"
Give me one superbowl offense that the recent Ravens, Steelers, or Bucs beat the equal of the Rams' greatest show on turf? MVP quarterback, Hall of Fame running back--the statistically unequalled all purpose running back in the history of the game, perennial all pro wide recievers, awesome offensive line, not just good, but great.
I actually saw not just read about these teams, and I can tell you, that year in, year out the 80s and early 90s Niners and 90s Cowboys had defenses that won football games, and big ones too.
And no the Pats weren't all that great an offense last year were they? You guys, talk on and on. Until they got old, in January I'd take that Pats linebacking corps and secondary any day of the week--they won when it counted and did so year in and year out.
Stacy:
Buckhalter has been hurt too much to be truly underappreciated. The guy's good when he's healthy, which isn't often. The Iggles do need some new blood in that backfield, outside out of Mr. Westbrook, of course.
I would love to see the Steelers win, but I think Whisenhunt and Grimm may have a few too many tricks up their sleeves. Also, will Big Ben be so eager to make up for his dismal performance in XL that he ends up turning Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie into a superstar?
Cardinals, 20-16.
sgwhite,
If there wasn't a big benefit, why risk doing it? If they couldn't achieve an in-game advantage, why would they do it? I agree that its not nearly as big a deal as the media made it out to be, but I also don't think its quite as innocent as you make it seem. Teams may send advance scouts, but that doesn't mean the Jets didn't change up their signals from the game before, and especially the season before.
CitizenE,
Frankly, I think you've exposed yourself as knowing very little.
"I'd take that Pats linebacking corps and secondary any day of the week--they won when it counted and did so year in and year out."
You would take them over this Steeler's team? Or even the Ravens who they just beat? Either you don't mean that, or you are a silly man.
So if the Steelers win this game by a TD, they can't be as good as the Patriots' defense in 2001 because the Pats beat a better offense? Ridiculous.
sgwhiteinfla
Good post. Yes, I am a conspiracy theorist, it keeps my brain functioning. Like doing cross word puzzles I guess. But it is kind of funny to hear the Rams players talk about how it seemed the Pats D knew exactly what they were doing.
By the way, checked out your blog. Good work. When you see the new follow, its suite436
CitizenE
Steelers. 2005. The "unstoppable" 14-2 Indianapolis Colts, divisional round. And this D is better than the one from 05.
MVP quarterback: Peyton Manning
Edge James: Possible HOFer
Receivers: Stokely, Harrison, Wayne, with the later 2 probably ending up in the HOF, definitely Harrison.
Bucs. 2002. Oakland had the NFL MVP who passed for over 4700 yards, the #1 ranked passing offense, #5 ranked rushing offense, Jerry Rice and Tim Brown, HOFers.
Citizen E
You might not remember this but I do because I was there. The Bucs Defense held the greatest show on turf to a touchdown and a field goal and holding them to 309 yards in the NFC championship game the year the Rams won the Superbowl with absolutely no help from their offense. In contrast the Patriots D allowed 17 points in the Superbowl that they beat the Rams and 427 yeards. So by your metrics the Bucs D of 2000 is better than the Patriots D of 2001 Give me a damn break man.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/2000/playoffs/conf_nfc/news/2000/01/23/buccaneers_rams_ap/
Stacy
To answer your question as to why the did it I can tell you its because Bellicheck is a meticulous asshole in the best sense of the phrase. There isn't anything too small tht will give him an advantage that he won't go after. But bigger than that, EVERYBODY tapes signals. The only thing he did wrong was putting someone in a position to get a better look at the signals.
I can tell you that I coached on the collegiate level for a year and we did it too. And thats why I can really speak to how little it actually helps in practice. And then I can take it a step further. You can't use the tape during the game anyway so the biggest benefit for Bellicheck would be to teams in their division that they play twice a year. But usually they are already familiar enough with those teams that they can recognize their signals anyway. And that won't help them with the other half of their schedule. On the college level at least they play the bulk of their schedule against the same conference opponents every year so it makes more sense to do it then.
Basically like I said the way for you or anybody else to wrap your mind around how inconsequential it is would be to ask yourself how Bellicheck could use the information to help his team when as I pointed out the offense doesn't even use signals anymore. And the defense comes out too late.
Appreciate it Branden
sgwhiteinfla
You're exactly right. Plus, since you were there, what was the reaction to that bull shit call of the Bert Emanuel catch overturned. At least that is how I saw it.
Damn, I must be the oldest person who comes here. 'Cuz there ain't one of the teams you guys are flogging as the "greatest of all time" that wouldn't get crushed like cheap soda pop cans by the '70s Steelers. I know. I was there.
geg6
I'm not saying this Steelers D is the best of all time. My opinion is with the 85 Bears.
"You can't use the tape during the game anyway so the biggest benefit for Bellicheck would be to teams in their division that they play twice a year."
Again, I don't agree with this. You could run a tape to another room after the first quarter to be reviewed for halftime. I don't need to wrap my mind around this. Its clear to me. Also, they weren't just doing this for division teams that they play twice a year. The first time they were reprimanded for this was a game against the Packers. The Patriots are scheduled to play the Packers once every four years. Now granted, it could be more with the way the schedule plays out, but you get my point. I think you are the one that needs to start wrapping the mind around it.
geg6,
You suffer from nostalgia. Its a terrible affliction that happens to a lot of old-heads. Don't feel bad, but please, get serious.
"On the college level at least they play the bulk of their schedule against the same conference opponents every year so it makes more sense to do it then."
My high school team didn't even use the same signals from one year to the next. College teams definitely don't. And if they don't, they're dumb. Because like you said, everybody does it, and everybody knows that everybody does it. It doesn't make sense.
Stacy
No you seriously can not watch a tape at halftime and that is the absolute unadulterated truth. There simply is not enough time.
As for signals, yeah high school teams change their signals for plays, what I am talking about is signals for personnel. And most teams don't take the time to change signals for personnel groups from game to game. Look if you don't want to believe it thats fine. But the truth is still the truth.
I'm not even saying the filming won any games. But please, let's not excuse it. It was illegal for a reason.
Branden
re the Emmanuel catch being overturned.
I still haven't gotten over it and I don't know any real Buc fan who has. But the truth is there is no guarantee that our offense would have scored. We had already had our share of miracles just to get to that game by coming back and beating the Deadskins the week before so perhaps it was just karma catching up to us.
Sorry, sgwhite, you are wrong. And you avoided my main point.
1.Why the fuck did they film the Green Bay Packers if there was no in-game advantage? Don't even try. There is no good answer to this.
2.And you can't tell me that assistants can't watch film at halftime. Sorry there is enough time.
3. Teams obviously change their personnel signals from season to season. You suggested it would be a good idea in college because they play the same conference every year? Give me a break.
Assistants could take film from the other teams first two possesions, go back to a film room, and watch the tape until the 4th quarter. Just a thought. But I'm sure you'll have some insider information why that's impossible. Even though its clearly not.
Stacy
You do realize that filming the signals wasn't what was illegal right? It was WHERE HE WAS STANDING when he was filming the signals that was the problem. Thats why Bellicheck never had to apologize for filming anything. He had to apologize for telling the guy to go to that particular area to do it. Please remember that he went undefeated last year in the regular season AFTER the controversy came out. That should tell you how important it was.....or wasn't
Anyone planning to buy Tony Dungy's new book? He was on Rush Limbaugh promoting it today.
sgwhite,
I noticed you avoided my question. Nice. I know you hate it when others do that. But I wouldn't expect you to concede a point, considering I've never seen you do it before.
"Please remember that he went undefeated last year in the regular season AFTER the controversy came out."
Well, I'm pretty sure it happened the same season. The Jets game was the first game of the undefeated season.
"That should tell you how important it was."
I neve said it was important. I'm simply pointing out where you're wrong.
CitizenE --
Good point about the Pats holding the greatest show on turf to only 17 pts and scoring a TD to go with it. That Rams squad put up 31 pts a game in the regular season. The Pats gave up 17 pts a game and were 24th in total yards. But they did have 22 interceptions and they played great down the stretch of that season and in the playoffs. But were they consistently dominating like the Steelers D has been this year?
Remember Ben throws his share of ints, our top RB was hurt for a while this year, our offensive line is below average, and our punter is horrible. This defense has not only had to overcome other offenses, but their own as well. And they have played the Pats, Colts, Chargers, Giants (when the Giant offense was heating up, and Steelers were without McFadden and Clark) and Ravens (who put up big numbers throughout the second half). Those are good offenses with good QBs and WRs.
But we will have to see how they do against this great passing attack (whose running game has improved). If they can match the type of game the Pats had in that SB, I think you can say this defense is better. More dominating, a better defensive coordinator, as critical to the teams success and better position players while still have a good team defense. The Pats had a good team defense too. I would say that team probably had a better secondary in terms of ball hawking and getting picks, but this Steelers team did have 20 ints in the reg. season. This pass rush is far better than the 01 Pats.
All in all, I would still take this Pittsburgh defense over the 01 Pats, but they aren't far behind. Both may land in the top ten of all time if we go back and list them. BUT STEELERS GOTTA GET IT DONE SUNDAY OR THAT'S ALL OUT THE WINDOW.
sgwhiteinfla
Yeah, you make a good point, and maybe karma is what it was. But it sucks the refs decided whether the Bucs had an extra 11 yards to score or not and not the Bucs. Sadly, that game played a huge part in destroying Sean King's career. Yes, he helped himself do that, but I liked him at Tulane. I just felt bad.
"Please remember that he went undefeated last year in the regular season AFTER the controversy came out."
Well, I'm pretty sure it happened the same season. The Jets game was the first game of the undefeated season."
Sorry, sg, I misread you there...
Branden is right, I forgot about the Steelers 05 defense which was terrific as well and won a Super Bowl. And I agree, this version is even better than that one.
Stacy says
Sorry, sgwhite, you are wrong. And you avoided my main point.
I have already answered this one and told you that it was SOP. Again if you don't want to believe it thats on you. But you could make your case a lot stronger if you could come up with a team that they didn't tape. That would mean they were selective about it and only chose the stronger teams to target. Holla at me when you find any evidence of that. I won't hold my breath.
Actually I can tell you that and I am. Again I know from personal experience. Most times at half time there is just enough time for all the coaches to meet with the Head Coach then for the Defensive coaches and Offensive coaches to break off together then take the plan for the second half to the team. Again you don't have to believe it but its the truth.
Please tell me how you know this. Because I can promise you that I know for a fact, not a guess that you are wrong.
Now I know you feel strongly about this, its obvious in your responses. I tried to end the convo earlier, not avoid your question because you aren't going to be swayed anyway. But if you have more questions I will give you plenty more answers.
Stacy says
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA. And who is going to coach the team in the meantime? Or do you mean the coaches in the booth who are governed by strict rules about what they can and can't bring in the press box and where they can go during a game? They can't even have a Tee Vee on in their press box except for a monitor that shows replays with no sound. Dude seriously you have no idea how silly what you just suggested is but I am on the floor right now.
A big test for the Cards will be the second half. Steelers own that half. And all of Fitz's TDs have come in the first half. Once LeBeau and the guys dial it up after making those halftime adjustments, all hell is gonna break lose.
Stacyq...nostalgia? Bwahahaha. No, sorry. No need to feel nostalgic when you have a team that is consistently one of the best in the league. Facts is facts. They had to change the entire rulebook to deal with it. Without the Steel Curtain, the 9ers would never have won a single Lombardi.
"I have already answered this one and told you that it was SOP. Again if you don't want to believe it thats on you. But you could make your case a lot stronger if you could come up with a team that they didn't tape. That would mean they were selective about it and only chose the stronger teams to target. Holla at me when you find any evidence of that. I won't hold my breath."
You still don't get it. If there was no in-game advantage to the filming, there would be no reason the film the Packers. You are wrong about this. Standard operating procedure? You can do better than that, sg.
"Please tell me how you know this. Because I can promise you that I know for a fact, not a guess that you are wrong."
You can tell me for a fact that college teams don't change their signals in between seasons? Yet all the teams are aware that other teams film their signals? I'm sorry, but you are delusional. That is seriously insulting that you expect people to believe that. But hey, thanks for the "promise."
"Dude seriously you have no idea how silly what you just suggested is but I am on the floor right now."
Go ahead and get up off the floor, sg. I'm not talking about the coordinators or even the coaches. You have one guy filming and one guy reviewing the film. That is not difficult. No one ever has to leave the booth. Your fake "lol's" and things are really childish.
Seriously, sg, I think you are a pretty smart dude. But the know-it-all shtick gets old pretty quickly. You act like every opinion of yours is gospel. As though someone can promise they KNOW that college teams never change their signals from season to season. I mean, seriously? Good god. I've never seen you admit to being wrong except the one time you thought there were 2 timeouts per half in the NFL. Which, coming from someone who claims to know how every NFL and college coaching staff operates, seems pretty telling.
Sorry, I meant to say two challenges per half.
Stacy
Yes I am still on the floor. But it really serves no purpose to continue the argument because I am talking about facts and you are talking about guessing. It is funny to me how a little while back you said I have NEVER conceded a point but now you yourself bring up a time I did concede a point. But its cool. Again I have answered all of your questions but you haven't answered any of mine. You are going to believe whatever you want about the filming but you still havent even once give an example of what advantage it could possibly give them. It is what it is man.
P.S. Please Please Please keep repeating that notion about a generic "assistant" scurrying off to watch film during a game and then somehow getting the information to the "real" coaches so they can put together a diabolical game plan on the fly. That one is a keeper!
I believe that filming can give you an in-game advantage. If it didn't, why would they possibly risk the punishment for a game in Lambeau? In case the Packers are still using the same signals four years later? I know, based on your coaching experience, that you KNOW teams don't change their personnel signals from season to another. But I suppose I'll just GUESS that they do. So, based on the fact that the filming gives an advantage during the game, I'm simply guessing how it might be done. See, I don't pretend to know everything about everything. That's your SOP.
I've never seen someone claim that opinions are facts. You've brought no facts to my attention in which I wasn't already aware.
"notion about a generic "assistant" scurrying off to watch film during a game and then somehow getting the information to the "real" coaches"
This really doesn't seem crazy at all. Like, not in the least.
P.S. Please Please Please keep repeating that you know for a fact that college teams don't change signals from one season to the next. Really, that one is a keeper!!!
I still think you're adorable.
It's strangely impressive that a fight has broken out over the Patriots and their... how shall we put this ... taping experience - and LarryMoeandJesus hasn't even said a word. Truly, we live in a strange age.
As for the game in question, I would like the Cards to win, but I reckon the Steelers will triumph by 6-8 points. For me they are slightly better as a complete team, and I don't think Arizona will fully succeed in giving Warner the protection he needs.
Oh, god, I hope ML&J doesn't show up. Him and SG on the same side? The world might explode...
One thing that's being neglected among all the Warner-beats-the-blitz comments, is that the Steelers get most of their best pressure WITHOUT BLITZING. IE- they get pressure by the line and force the QB into a no win situation because the receivers are all covered. This is why I think their defense is so much better than a couple years ago when they were constantly bringing blitzes, but a good QB (Brady especially) could hurt them badly downfield. And while their offense stats aren't overwhelming, they are still no joke. Willie Parker, Santonio Holmes, Hines Ward, Heath Miller. And Big Ben's legs.
The other thing to remember is that while everyone loves to point to the Cards beating the Steelers in '07, that was a pretty evenly matched game with the main difference being a big special teams play by the Cards, that made the difference. And although the Steelers always have good D, their D is way more fierce this year than it was in '07.
For those complaining of lack of storyline: Mike Tomlin. Young, smart, real, loves defense, respectful of the players, no drama. A coach that most athletes would love to play for. And a better coach than Cowher (who loved to make WTF decisions at big moments that rarely worked.)
I see this game going down like the BCS Championship game. The Steelers will punish the Cardinals WRs early and by the second half they won't want to catch the ball. Even though he's a warrior, I don't think Boldin has yet recovered psychologically from the broken face he suffered earlier in the season.
Interesting that neither team is a great rushing team. The Steelers are 23rd in the league and the Cardinals are dead last.
The coaching matchups are also intriguing. Dick LeBeau may be the best defensive mind in the history of the league, but Whisenhunt knows his tendencies. Arizona beat the Steelers 21-14 last year.
Arizona 24-20
I have a hard time rooting for a team that went 9-7 during the regular season. I just can't see a 9-7 team as the best of the NFL. Yes, they earned repesct after beating the Falcons, Panthers, and Eagles but they're not worthy of the Lombardi Trophy.
I think this is just absurd. If you march through the playoffs and end up beating two of the top 3 defenses in the NFL (Eagles & Steelers), and demolish one of the top two seeds in their own house (where they were previously unbeaten), I don't see how the case that can be made that you're not worthy.
This game will be interesting to watch for the simple fact it will demonstrate that tackling is an important skill for a free safety. Warner throws a lot of short passes, and the Cards get their yards after the catch. So watch the whole game and not just the highlights, and see why the Steelers are lucky they have Ryan Clark and not "the best safety in the league" who can't tackle.
A team that gives up as many big plays as the Ravens and Ed Reed would not beat the Cardinals.
Steelers v. Cardinals
Fact 1: Fitz will always catch the ball. If Warner gets it off, Fitz will bring it down. The 'lers, god love 'em, don't have a corner that can keep up with him, or match the height advantage.
Edge: Cards
Fact 2: Warner is no spring chicken. If he gets hit hard, early, and often he will be worthless by half time. It happened all season. Sack Warner and he makes mistakes and throws picks.
Edge: Steelers
Fact 3: Ben gets nervous. This is his second time at the big show, but he still gets happy feet and throws picks, or gets sacked, when he's not focused. Warner is a true vet - he won't get nervous no matter what.
Edge: Cards
Fact 4: Willie Parker is mighty mouse. He's fast when there's a hole but is just not big enough to make one himself. Expect little from the run game.
Edge: Cards
Fact 5: The Cards are daisies. They haven't faced off against a single team this year that hits or hustles like the Steelers. By contrast, the Steelers played the Ravens three times, and the Ravens are evil, monstrous, barbarians compared to... well... anyone except the Steelers. The Cards have no concept of the amount of pain heading their way.
Edge: Steelers
Fact 6: Steelers are at their healthiest in months. Hines has had two good weeks to get that knee in shape. Troy looked good against the Ravens and has had a nice rest. Ben seems to be able to remember his name and what team he's on for a change. The Cards are healthy too; but they should worry about the Steelers playing with a full aresenal. They beat the Ravens without Ward. Imagine what they can do with him.
Edge: Steelers
Overall: I think its much closer than people are saying. I give it to the Steelers only on the assumption that the D is going to grind up Warner's offense early, giving the Steelers lack-luster O a good long time to wrack up enough points to pull out the win. I'm pretty confident in this prediction because that's how the Steelers have been successful all season, and there's little reason to think the Cards are tough enough to be the team that breaks the streak. If the Ravens weren't able to do it, I just can't imagine the Cards pulling it out.
Randall --
You must have watched the Steelers all year because you are on point. I mostly agree. I will say that I think Parker can have a good game, even near 100 yards on the ground. I think the Panthers would have ran more, and ran well, if they weren't down so early. If he can't get it down they need to be willing to throw to Moore for five yards or Heath Miller. Get those key yards on first if you are only going to run for 1 or 2 with Willie. The Cards run defense doesn't seem daunting but if they have to, use the pass to set up the run instead of always vice versa.
Hines is very very important. I get nervous thinking about how he will only be maybe 75 percent at best. He will play, but I'm not sure how effective he can be.
Ben is shaky at times. If he is throwing the ball away early instead of tossing it up or taking sacks I will feel much better.
As for bringing the pain...the Cards may have thought the Eagles were tough. Ha. Ha.
I think if the Steelers go into the half with a lead, or only down by 7 or less, they should be able to pull it out. They are a great second half team. They get stronger as it goes on.
Dammit Morzer! Why'd u pick Pittsburgh!!!!!!!
Seriously though, my prediction is Steelers by 13.
The Bert Emanuel "bullshit" referee call sucked, but the referee was correct to rule it incomplete. Heck, it's the reason they changed the rule.
As for the Philly fan complaining about having kevin Curtis as a #1 or 2 receiver, did u watch ur team in the playoffs? Typical Philly fan, always whining about his team!
Good seeing everyone. Go Steelers!!!
The Cardinals are going to win 50-20. By half-time the score is going to be 28-3 and the Steelers are going to play catch up. This will be over by half-time. But you guys can dream.
Hmmm, sounds like you got the dreaming covered big guy!