The Corner, following Juan Williams's lead, takes up the case with all the subtlety and nuance you'd expect. I've dealt with this silly, silly argument before. The only thing new I have to add is this: It seems foolish to listen and read pundits in a way that suggests they're talking about actual human beings. I know they claim they are, but they're lying--to themselves, mostly. In reality, the pundit is arguing about two-dimensional caricatures that exist in his head.
Only a two-dimensional caricature listens to Tupac, and then decides to be a bad father. Only a two-dimensional caricature sees the election of Obama and then says, "Hmmm, guess this means I can't listen to Jeezy anymore." Only two-dimensional caricatures say, "Hmm, got a black president, better pull my pants up."
In the real world, where real people live, and breath real air, a multitude of forces--cultural, social, economic, etc.--weigh on people. Barack Obama will certainly change something about black culture. But anyone who's spent any time around actual people should know better then to act like they know what that is, or how it will play out. These guys are Skip Bayless, telling you who's going to the Super Bowl next year.
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Kinda hurts their argument when you had rappers who held concerts for Obama during the campaign season and helped to raise money. And then there is the new Jeezy video thats quickly becoming a hood anthem "My President"
I agree 100% TNC.
But seriously, pull your pants up.
Ah come on TNC...i like perpetual punditry! Encourage them, make them do a promo for this! I want more...I expect Jigga to start a country-music record company, Nas becoming a Fox contributor. And if i'm really lucky, i hope Nelly crawls out of whatever hole he's in and runs for RNC-chair!
Everybody together-- the plural of anecdote is not data.
I'm not a fan of those super saggy pants, but my wife points out that Barack's jeans are kind of nerdy and uncool. In the spirit of reconciliation, I'm looking toward America finding some middle ground.
These people - and they represent a LOT of people - get most of their exposure to black culture from television. I know and work with many people who have never had a real conversation with a black person, so they really do rely on two-dimensional caricatures to fill the mental void.
So no one told these guys Obama is on record as being a hip-hop fan, and hip-hop has come out in full support of Obama on everything from fund raising to releasing mix-tapes dedicated to him? And then there's the whole, "Hip-hop is more then the stuff you see on MTV," but I guess their heads would explode if someone explained that to them.
I for one, think Williams has a point. Since George Washington took the oath of office, we have never seen white boys misbehave. Not once, ever. Nope.
Well, at least not in the last two minutes? No? Oh, well nevermind.
Now now, Alexander. There is no room for your earth logic.
When I tell you--as a member of the hip hop generation--that I'm tired of having this conversation? PLEASE believe it. And this pseudointellectual dribble will NOT harsh my mellow.
JM -- You can't say that about Williams though. How then to explain his caricature, if that's indeed what it is? Is it a generational thing?
And pull up your pants.
and in three years, when hip-hop is still around, they'll say that Obama has failed us.
My problem with this specific type of BS is that, they're not even using they own supposed ideology. Hip-hop, besides being a culture, is an industry. As long as there is money to be made there will be music/art/movies to sell and therefore the culture lives on. How is obama going to counteract this?! Besides inspiring young artists to make pro-obama music, how far up your own ass do you have to be to actually think that it will just "go away"...
I agree that the folks at the Corner need to be set straight (once again, regrettably), but Skip Bayless? That's cold.
brucds,
Watch what shows up in the stores this spring. I predict that 1962, complete with sleeveless shifts and nerdy jeans, is coming our way. The Obamas have set the silhouette, and the world will follow with three-dimensional delight.
I am still suprised that people dont follow, when you aint got shit to say shut the fuck up
People love writing obituaries, if what they are talking about dies, they are genius, if not, then it is never brought up again. I have seen God, Rock n Roll, baseball, irony, both political parties and the whole nation all declared dead before their time.
I have to say it is foolish and naive to say that somehow because Obama isn't all bling'd out that hip hop will die, or that his ascension puts some sort of lie on hip hop culture.
And on the flip side, I have to say that it's foolish to say the misogyny, bigotry, violence and idiocy of alot of hip hop doesn't make a strong impression on a child's mind. And this is across the board - white, black, hispanic etc.
It's all about who's consuming the media, not the media itself. So, TNC, I agree that you won't change your life to reflect the lyrics of Tupac. But a 6 year old, with no better influences in their life, could very well just go with it. I'm just sayin'.
damn...not Skip Bayliss. That's standing on a airplane wing in the middle of the Hudson in January cold. According to some, hip-hop has been dead/dying since 1985...if Vanilla Ice nor Karl Rove rapping couldn't kill it, Obama can't stop it.
AJ: Juan Williams is in the Fox tank...and the tank is starved of oxygen.
the basic reason that this is nonsense, is because hip hop's audience isn't Black kids - that's just a by-product. The true audience for hip hop are kids that live on their blocks. Black kids make up MAYBE 30% of the hip hop records bought.
Allow me to translate:
"President Obama is now directly responsible for any action committed by any African-American that I dislike."
It's better than typing the N word hundreds of times a la Jack Torrance in The Shining. But not by much.
Really, we need to develop a new form of mathematics to quantify their stupidity.
"In reality, the pundit is arguing about two-dimensional caricatures that exist in his head."
Best description of a (bad) pundit that I've read in a long time.
I like to think of Juan Williams as an overpaid concern troll.
There is a kernel of truth to these arguments- that a driving force in hiphop was the disfranchisement of black youth, and thus now that black youth have a president whom they can relate to that impetus is removed... that's facile but kind of true. I kind of agree with that argument when applied to certain flavors of hiphop, namely the 50 cent flavor. That kind of poser thug "I got the biggest balls" hiphop might indeed be made irrelevant by a black president. Good riddance. But hiphop as an art form, good hiphop, isn't going anywhere any more than jazz or rock or classical music are. Like all good art, it expresses the essence and emotions of life's circumstances: be it urban violence and racism or the trials of everyday life. Those who try to pigeon hole hiphop as dumb gangsta rap only demonstrate their ignorance of the medium.
This is a touchy issue because it sounds queasily like white people wishing black people would be more like themselves. Believe me, as a white son of white parents I've been watching football or basketball games more than a few times and have cringed to hear, "Why don't they just speak proper English!?".
The trick is to make a distinction between all black culture (all hiphop) and the components of that culture which you dislike (I-got=the-biggest-balls hiphop). If you understand and respect hiphop as art form then it is possible to make judgments about particular artists an styles without emitting the stink of racial tone deafness.
These people - and they represent a LOT of people - get most of their exposure to black culture from television.
I agree that there is a high degree of ignorance about black culture, even and sometimes especially in white liberal America. You also saw this type of thing flowing the opposite way during the campaign whenever a Republican said something stupid. Liberals saw their opposition as so two dimensional that they thought things like "palling around with terrorists" was going to cause Jethro to load up a U Haul full of fertilizer and drive it to Hyde Park.
We've had White Preznit after White Preznit and they still produced Britney Spears. I'm just sayin.
...don't forget about Jamie Lynn and Bristol. But Fox had the nerve to call Michelle someone's baby mama?
There is just as much misogny, violence and killing in Punk, Metal, Death Metal, Rock. And actually, also in Blues, Epic Poetry...
A whole generation grew up biting their teeth on Ozzy. He of course bit his teeth on chicken necks.
I think that it is entirely possible that Obama will have a sartorial effect on the kids. Mainly, by having an effect on other rich folks who have an effect on kids. Hell, even before Obama became famous, Puffy was getting bespoke suits, and Jay-Z seems to wear pinstripes every time I see him photographed.
The thing is that if indeed there is an effect, Williams and his ilk will only realize that they weren't really all that concerned about baggy pants to begin with. It's who wore them pants that they find . . . distasteful. And you just know they'll just end up writing post after post comparing the legions of newly-suited young folks to Malcolm's followers from back when. Which will, in turn, feed their favorite myth of Obama-as-dangerous-charismatic-leader.
Grist for the mill.
A more optimistic possibility is that what's changing isn't black people but the frame through which these pundits evaluate black Americans. That black people will be seen as people who make choices, and have a wide variety of backgrounds and loyalties. Maybe hip-hop will no longer be the lens through which all young black males are viewed.
What can I say, it's a hopeful week.
Actually the guy at The Corner was quoting an African American woman's reaction to a poster that they both saw. She wasn't with him and he didn't know her he was simply passing on an anecdote. So everyone should take a deep breath and say their Obama's a few times.
I think you've completely over-reacted to the offending article.
Ta-Nehisi,
You're acting in bad faith. That's not cool. We get it, you don't like conservatives, and will mine everything any one of them says to find a reason for righteous indignation. You should have a cable news talk show.
-J