But who knows, really - again, the permissive attitude of cops to Tasers, is an educational issue. All cops seem to be being taught - "go the Taser way - it works in controlling the situation, and no harm is done". So it ends up being the easy, default choice.

Then the protests (totally valid) turn to busting up locally-owned businesses, burning cars, and attacking Oakland PD officers, who had nothing to do with the case. Destroying a poor school teacher's car. Well done - good way to honor Oscar's memory.

More here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/07/MN2N155CN1.DTL

Last night's events were no March on Washington.

bless up,
richard
http://fem-men-ist.blogspot.com

This is totally unfounded rank speculation but I can't help but wonder if the officer might have been drunk given that this occurred at 2am on New Year's Eve. Being a BART police officer is usually a pretty low impact job, I can imagine them deciding to knock a few back. If the officer had a few too many, maybe is a bit of an aggressive personality to start with, and then, say, gets kicked or hit (intentionally or otherwise) while cuffing this guy, I could see him just losing his mind for a second and doing this. That's definitely not an excuse (for what would be murder, of course), just a potentially explanation for how something so seemingly inexplicable takes place. There are a bunch of others too, I imagine. Based on what you can see, though, there's basically no version of events that shouldn't end with this guy doing some serious time, if not life.

' Resisting arrest'.

thanks for blogging on this, Coates.

Did they even get the right dudes handcuffed, the ones who supposedly were in a fight? a friend in SF tells me there were many recent incidents on the BART metro trains out there, involving gangs/fights, some involving guns. but they interviewed one of those handcuffed fellows and he hardly seemed like a gangster. I don't know.

To add to some of the other comments, the cop at first stayed on the job, but then resigned when he faced an administrative tribunal, almost certainly because he could not refuse to answer questions and remain a cop--now he can assert his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination.

Sad, sad, all around.

That's a plausible piece of speculation there, actually. I hadn't heard it before. Certainly, there's no obvious motive or sequence of events that makes sense here.

Does anyone believe even for one moment, that the police will do anything about it and prosecute the guy for - at a minimum - negligent homicide, or do you think they'll close ranks and assign the guy to a desk job with pretty much a slap on the wrist?

I'm guessing the latter.

He'll this cop can probably move to Prince George's country Maryland and get a promotion! Just ask the family of Prince Jones, or the countless other people murdered by the cops out here.

And cops wonder why people like me (and I'm white so I don't usually end up on the receiving end of their bullshit like others do) distrust and/or hate cops?

Yeah, yeah...I'm getting ahead of myself and assuming that the police do nothing to prosecute one of their own, but I'd say it's a damn good bet they don't.

Asshats...

Of course, that's absolutely no excuse for what transpired.

I, as a White woman, am looking forward to BART's explanation of how a man lying on his stomach, with his hands behind his back, being restrained by 3 officers, was a direct threat to anyone's life.

are you gonna blog on the ballplayer in Houston's son who was shot in the driveway of his home?

That having been said I also am pretty sure that, judging by the SF Gate article if I were anywhere around these racist rioters, despite my own similar feelings on this atrocity, I or my property would be attacked. Maybe I shouldn't even say racist, since they're even attacking their own. It's irrational, in fact it's almost just an excuse to let out pent-up frustration.

My guess would be some possible combination of being a dumbass, alcohol, or thinking the handgun was a taser played a role.

I'm pro police, but this officer needlessly took a life.

On top of that you have selfish thugs smashing black-owned businesses, turning racist rage against anyone who doesn't look like them (like Asians or anyone who happens to have anything halfway nice, like the black guy with the Lexus), and gleefully dodging any semblance of responsibility, the opposite of self-determination.

Well I'm glad I'm not in the middle of it and I pray for all involved. BART, Oakland & SF govts and PD's, get your act together and deliver some justice!

If you can't blame the protesters for turning violent, then you can't blame the BART police for not doing anything.

In reality, the BART police failed in their responsibilities and should expect protest, and the anarchists in the protest committed numerous crimes. Each has a responsibility here, and the shits that wear masks on their faces and look for an opportunity to fuck things up do not deserve any cover. This was not civil disobedience.

As for the so called rioters, a group of predominately white anarchist youth start lighting things on fire, instigate more violence, and the whole thing is portrayed by the media as black youth gone wild.

What are the requirements to become a police?

Little. Almost nothing.

Cops are ex-jocks.

This cop was either angry (steroids) dumb or just hapless.

Second, every country on Earth HATES cops.

What boggles my mind is that everyone here is ready to give this piece of @#)$ the benefit of the doubt.

Are we reading the same blog?

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nb/bellaire/news/6195571.html

1) The cop who shot Grant should be in custody while various authorities investigate the incident, and the DA should be preparing a charge of murder or manslaughter against him for his day in court. Whatever his mistake was, if it was a mistake, he clearly killed an unarmed and restrained man.

2) The public would be remiss if it did not massively protest this travesty in the streets.

3) Those rioters who turned peaceful protests violent are working against the community's interests (both the black community and the public in general) and have no excuse, despite the authorities' lack of action with regard to #1. These rioters are criminals who deserve to be arrested and charged as such.

We on the same page?

And what the hell, rioters? Go back to being protesters, not rioters. I love Oakland and I know those streets and I hate seeing them look like that. What the hell, assholes.

Just because I had made comments that might or might not give some context to the situation doesn't mean I think the officer did nothing wrong.

That's what this blog is all about--trying to understand other people, not just automatically convicting the cop of Murder 1 before he gets his day in court. But yeah, I think the cop should be arrested, like now.

Justin- to say they are *subject to* the same standards and training is not to say they *meet* the same standards. Inner city public school teachers are subject to the same standards as their peers at, say, Sidwell Friends, but that's not saying much.

The cops will find a reason to close ranks and say it was a justifiable use of force. I can already hear the "I saw him reaching into his pants" excuse and that handcuffs don't prevent somebody from yielding a weapon.

When is cop murder going to stop??

Justin, a question - do you know what the mood is among the Bay area police in general? They must be on edge but if I was one of them, I'd be super pissed at this one cop. Your point about the BART PD is taken - they're basically cops whose jurisdiction is the metro and surrounding areas. But is it true that it's considered an undesirable position among California people who want to get into or already are in law enforcement?

There is a recruiting and training issue, though, for all of these sorts of service-level professional jobs in the Bay Area. Low and mid-income families are leaving the region, so it can be harder to find qualified teachers, fire fighters, civil servants, and law enforcement officers. Education is my field, and clearly standards and minimum training can't overcome recruitment issues.

Again, dude needs to go on trial and spend time in jail, but I'm more concerned about the next underqualified officer who makes the same mistake. Who did this cop beat out for the job?

I might buy the Taser explanation -- again, without excusing this killing -- but why the hell did the cop need to Taser Grant anyway? He's got Grant down on the ground, has other cops around him -- if he handcuffs Grant, he'll be totally incapacitated. Pam Spaulding over at Pandagon and Pam's House Blend has been compiling dozens of instances when cops ended up killing people with Tasers. Even if he'd just Tasered Grant, it still would have been excessive use of force, IMHO. With the gun, it was manslaughter at least.

Now as to the comment about this not being the first black man killed in Oakland by Police recently I believe that. I also wonder what the ratio is of police shooting black men in Oakland to black men shooting black men in Oakland.

My guess it's fewer than 1 police shooting to 100 other shootings. Assuming Oakland is anything like Chicago.

It always amazes me how much anger there is in the black community regarding police involved shootings. You can get a dozen reverends and "community leaders" to show up to protest ANY police involved shooting. Whether it is justified or clearly unjustified as this Oakland shooting is.

Yet hold a protest for some dead innocent kid killed by a gangbanger and few show up. Partly it's because other types of shootings are so common I guess. Partly it's because it's easier to focus on the police as being the main problem in the black community and not the fucked up standards that exist among elements in the black community.

I recall Michelle Obama being asked if she feared for Barack's safety. She said something to the effect of "he's a black man, he might get shot at the gas station".

Now there was a comment that everyone hates police worldwide. I agree. There's a reason for that. Human nature. Yet who do folks call when they are in trouble? Who runs to the sound of gunfire while others flee?

There was a black police chief in Chicago named Terry Hilliard who was shot early in his career. Decent guy. Came from a large extended family. One of his nephews ended up as a gangbanger doing time courtesy of Illinois taxpayers. When asked about him Hilliard basically said he was a no good scumbag.

Hilliard was also one of the few police leaders I ever heard say that about 20 percent of police have no business being cops. Normally you hear the "one rotten apple" defense. I tend to agree that around 20 percent of police have no business being cops because of laziness, brutality, stupidity, or some other personal defect.

Of course you could probably apply that 20 percent rule to many other professions. Teachers come to mind as do Ministers, and perhaps even politicians.

You can learn nearly everything you need to know about life from the movies. A great old film noir, "On Dangerous Ground", had the following exchange between cop and boss:

Jim Wilson: Cops have no friends. Nobody likes a cop. On either side of the law. Nobody.
Captain Brawley: Is that what you want? People to like you? Then you're in the wrong business and you ought to get out.
Jim Wilson: It's the only job I know. Has been for eleven years now.
Captain Brawley: Then make up
your mind to be a cop. Not a gangster with a badge.

These were bonafide police officers with excellent training and they still shot a man 12 times in the back for existing while black.

In all of these circumstances, the cops suffered absolutely no consequences.

I know there are good cops out there, but there are far, far too many shitty ones.

Like I said, I'm white so I'm not on the receiving end of nearly as much cop bullshit as others, but my limited experience tells me not to trust them one damn bit.

This isn't any type of defense whatsoever for the rioters, they're just a bunch of trash looking for an excuse.

This is more of a rant than a post, so I hope it makes at least a little sense and I feel better for having gotten it out.

There was guy here who died after being Tasered by police while restrained and the discussion in the press following that was that Tasers might not be so benign.

Anyway, sv has the right summary. I haven't seen the video. I heard about this yesterday, but have been kind of sticking my fingers in my ears going, "la-la-la-la" because I'm dead tired of hearing these stories.

Not to mention that Minyard said so eloquently "he was shot up pretty good" and that he wasn't "an expert" on the bullets used.

Between Danziger, Algiers Pt death squads, Gretna police preventing not just intrastate travel but intracity travel (people always forget the foot of the CCC is in Orleans Parish, so why were the Gretna cops there?)... yeah, I give up, too.

I know I shouldn't even read the NOLA.com comments but I'm always stunned at how no one thinks to put themselves in this kid's shoes. You're sitting there on New Years in a town that you don't live in anymore, and a car full of folks in plain clothes pulls up real slowlike next to you... I'd be scared out of my mind and wouldn't have ruled out firing first. If that's even what this kid did. With his licensed gun and no criminal record.

Depressing days in the NOLA.

That's the best response I've seen to this question in a while. Thanks for summing it up so succinctly.

Having un-bunched my panties with that last rant, I'm not ready to talk about this topic reasonably again.

But yeah, a lot of North Shore/Jeff Parish racist trash.

I'm kind of with you there XJ. I looked at the photos of the people they arrested and a lot of them looked white to me. Not sure if that quite qualifies as "racist rage."

If you are going to get busted by the cops you better have several reliable witnesses carrying video recorders that have not be confiscated by the cops.

jack_snyder25@yahoo.com

With the deliberation with which he seems to draw the weapon and fire it, I'm inclined to view the "hands to the face" action not as an expression of shock, but an instinctive reaction to the fact that he just got a bunch of Oscar Grant all over his face. The bullet passed through Grant, bounced off the floor and back through Grant. Either way, that close you're getting a faceful.

Justin already responded to your musing about the difference in response to police shootings vs. other shootings. I'd just add that in addition to the fact that the police need the public's trust, it's also clear that whenever these incidents occur, the default response of the police department is to close ranks, defend the officer, and give the officer special treatment, rather than arresting the officer and prosecuting him or her like any other person when there is sufficient evidence that they broke the law.

The outrage comes from the expressed message that the police are by default above the law, rather than subject to it like everyone else. As the people responsible for enforcing the law, one could argue that the power the police are entrusted with should come with greater scrutiny and being held to a higher standard for following the law, rather than always being given the benefit of the doubt and given special treatment when they are accused of violating the law.

My guess would be that protests from the people are one of the few levers citizens have to ensue that the police officers involved in shootings are actually investigated properly rather than having their possible crimes swept under the rug. I don't think there's any impression that the police will protect gang-bangers from the law when they commit murder, but there certainly is the impression that the police will protect their own regardless of their innocence or guilt.

I can guarantee this scenario would not have happened to a bunch of white kids. At the same time, I have to say I think the killing itself was more an outcome of horrible, inexcusable incompetence than racial malevolence. Of course, it hardly matters. The family has John Burris acting as their lawyer - a very tough attorney who lives for cases like this and will extract whatever justice is possible in the wake of such an outrage.

Meanwhile, the protestors - a small core, really - who pushed the demonstrations over into random violence are opportunistic scum preying on raw emotions. They should have their asses kicked. They're mostly the kind of jerks who stand on streetcorners selling crank newspapers and have no prospects for intervention into the politics of the community except for shit like this, when their brilliant plan is to foment hysteria that victimizes people who have nothing to do with the situation. Sick.

The point I was trying to make, badly perhaps, is that the outrage over ANY police shooting is greater than the overall outrage at the ridiculous rate of violence in some parts of American society.

I'm not trying to say unnecessary police violence should be ignored. Chicago had 500 murders last year. I don't know the exact number of people killed by cops during the same time frame, but it was less than 10. Police involved shootings are generally less than 30 a year here.

I think cops need better training, recruitment, and leadership. Many cops also suffer from some form of PTSD because of the nature of their jobs. They need help to cope with that.

Now as to the comment Justin made about the cop involved in this shooting getting another police job down the road.............be real. That ain't gonna happen. Now I can't guarantee he will be convicted of anything, but my guess is that he will be spending a few years or more in the California Prison System.

Using only(!) this video as evidence, it it hard to see how a manslaughter charge (at least) is not justified in this case.

One small point of correction: channel 2 did a careful review of the tapes and it appears to them the the suspect was not handcuffed, as they had previously reported. I've seen the frame by frame and, at best, it's unclear. Never the less, I don't think that there's any question that Grant was, in fact, subdued.

That said, one of the things that really gets me about this is that, apparently, he was initially allowed to delay his interview because it was his birthday and then because his wife was delivering a baby the next day.

I'm pretty damned sure that if I killed someone, no matter what the circumstances, the police wouldn't politely wait while I ordered by calendar.

I grow very tired of the double-standard that police get when they do something that would get anyone else quickly escorted to a nice holding cell.

But you could say the same thing about violence perpetrated against the police, as well. It's a very big deal when a cop is killed in the line of duty -- shouldn't it be a very big deal when a cop kills someone in the line of duty?

Let me add on to Justin's answer to the question of gang banger vs cop

1. It is rare that you actually see a gang banger murder anybody on video. And when you do its just some blurry static filled shot of a random black dude with random clothes on. When a video like this one emerges you not only know who did it but what their name rank and serial number is. Its a lot easier to protest when you know who you are protesting against

2. How many gang bangers get away with murder on video. See number 1 for part of the answer because its rare to catch them on video. But when you do his/her ass is pretty much fried. Contrast that with how many cops get away not just with murder on tape but many serious assaults as well. Not only does that cry out for demonstrations, it practically demands it.

3. I have personally have seen many MANY demonstrations against black on black crime. That they don't get publicity may be a problem but that doesn't mean they don't happen. We had one here not too long ago in tampa when a rising football star was gunned down. And every black man who gets shot by a cop does not inspire a march. If it did maybe we would see fewer instances like this but we don't. So your 1/100th number is probably wildly off. I only say probably because neither one of us have any data to support our case.

It would actually be a service - over the long run - to development of a truly professional police force and to the community if cops had some kind of mini-video device as part of their person - literally built into part of their uniform - that recorded all incidents they were involved in. Not infallible, but it would up the ante in their training and their conduct on the street.

Hey was that the kid who had just gotten home from Vanderbilt and got shot in Ybor City by some kid jealous of his car? This was back in 04 I think...I remember being home for that one, broke my heart--and yes there was a public outcry.

Again, as someone pointed out in the sister thread to this one--what some Whites confuse for a lack of outrage in the Black community is really a lack of outrage IN THE MEDIA because the message the media constantly reinforces about Black life is how cheap it is.

A hot blonde socialite disappears in Aruba, its a national story but you have Black children being kidnapped and "disappeared" every day in this country and no one cares. I guess this could extend to poor white trash and immigrant children of little means too, but its an old and worn phenomenon with Black folk.

a very good point.

All tapes were confiscated by the police. They even tried to confiscate all the amateur recordings. The ones that we are able to see were apparently not confiscated because the camera people were on the train and the cops couldn't get to them after the incident.

Unfortunately no, trajedy struck here again. This time it was a high school kid who was the truth on the football field. It happened maybe 6 months ago and its still unsolved although a lot of people think they know who did it.

Here's a first hand account of what happened last night, with pictures, in case anyone is interested. It seems like it started as a peaceful rally and another contingent took it out of control.

http://oaklandliving.wordpress.com/

Just to clarify some legal mumbo jumbo, all shootings are homicides. That doesn't necessarily mean it is a criminal homicide. The mental state referred to in the article is whether he had a "criminal intent," such as malice aforethought (murder), unreasonable belief in the need to defend himself (involuntary manslaughter), or reasonable belief in the need to defend himself (self-defense; not a crime).

I point this out only to clarify the DA's statement, not to suggest that this is anything other than a murder or manslaughter. It clearly looked criminal to me.

I shoot somebody in the hand and they don't die = assault w/deadly weapon

Sorry just being an asshole for a minute.

Nothing to see here, keep it moving.

Police officers are entrusted with protecting people's security. This is an egregious violation of that trust. This guy is obviously no better than a common sociopath, and he should be imprisoned - for life - like any other who'd commit this crime.

At the very least this guy ought to be tried for negligent homicide (though it looks more like murder from the video). I don't see how there was any excuse for him to go for his holster, whether taser or gun.

Riots are obviously an unproductive response, but it's pretty easy to see how they happened in response to something as egregious as this.

I even find myself feeling a little sorry for the cop. I really don't think he meant to kill Grant. But he most certainly did. The only just result is a manslaughter charge for this cop and prison time---hard time.

But there is a lesson in this for those kids as well. The rules just aren't the same for black kids as white kids when it comes to cops. Cops aren't going to give a black kids the same benefit of the doubt. They should, but this country isn't there yet. When things turn dicey, they're going to respond full force if you're black. The advice my father gave me---to say 'yes sir' or 'no sir' to cops, don't raise your voice, and keep your hands where their eyes can see---might have saved this man's life. In the street, they have the power. All you can do is get through it alive---and then fight them in court if they were wrong.

And props to those heads-up people who took these videos. Without this evidence, the dept. would have closed ranks by now and the killer would probably have been back out on the beat the next day. Now if there is any justice he'll be in the slammer for a minute.

From the video that looks like what he was doing. Before he was taken to the ground, he had his hands up above his head and was shaking his head. It seemed like he was telling the cops "I'm cooperating, please don't hurt me." He was then taken to the ground. The cop was right behind the guy with the Grant's behind his back, with another cop that had a knee on his neck and a third cop standing there watching. It's ridiculous to think that the cop had any reason to fear harm to his person at that point.

And yes, there are no released surveillance videos because the police were in full scale cover up mode. More than likely they'll "disallow" the amateur video evidence in court because it didn't follow a "proper chain of custody." The police will do everything to keep them out of court. The witnesses who come forward will be thoroughly discredited and the police will close ranks. The officers will testify that it looked like Grant was "reaching for his waistband" and the officer had every right to shoot him. It's a dangerous job and we should never second guess our police in a dangerous line of work. If you do, you hate the police and aren't an American.

I'm a defense attorney in a rural area. I'm not from here. I make an effort to introduce myself to all of the officers. I've heard the stories. You wouldn't believe how many of them have crossed the line out of fear. Not that the suspect had done anything wrong, but they were Navajo, hispanic, or the rare black person walking around town. I can't wait to get out of here, but where can I go where I'm safe from a police officer? Now how sad is that question?

On many handguns, safeties are a complete joke. People watch movies and think its some switch that has to dramatically flipped before a gun is active. Many safeties are nothing more than increased pressure on the trigger for the first shot. Some handguns have a hair-trigger firing, in which the slightest movement will cause it to fire (once safety is off). If the officer switched off the safety on a hair-trigger prior to pulling it out (i.e. before the melee), its very easy to fire it accidentally. Police officers accidentally discharge their weapons all the time, which just goes to show how good safeties work in general.

Go to a gun range sometime and try out a few handguns - there's a wide range of safeties out there.

Also the 'thought the handgun was a taser' doesn't seem convincing. I haven't held that many tasers, but the ones I have held don't feel a whole lot like a handgun.

Not that he deserves anything less than manslaughter.

The police should simply not be able to get away with execution of anyone. That officer should be in jail, pending review of the case and trial. That he isn't is an absolute outrage, and makes a mockery of police accountability. Unless the videos from the station CCTV cameras and all the videos from the phones which were confiscated show up as evidence in court, the officers who took them should be subject to discipline for attempting to cover up a crime.

Over the last 20 years (co-incident with the war on drugs) police forces (particularly urban ones) have become dangerously militarized. Witness the no-knock, wrong house drug raids that get people killed.

It wasn't that long ago that a SWAT team kicked in the door of the mayor (who is clearly white--which I only note to point out that this isn't just a problem in the black community, just more of one) of a city in Maryland.

This sort of shit has got to stop.

The police should simply not be able to get away with execution of anyone. That officer should be in jail, pending review of the case and trial. That he isn't is an absolute outrage, and makes a mockery of police accountability. Unless the videos from the station CCTV cameras and all the videos from the phones which were confiscated show up as evidence in court, the officers who took them should be subject to discipline for attempting to cover up a crime.

Over the last 20 years (co-incident with the war on drugs) police forces (particularly urban ones) have become dangerously militarized. Witness the no-knock, wrong house drug raids that get people killed.

It wasn't that long ago that a SWAT team kicked in the door of the mayor (who is clearly white--which I only note to point out that this isn't just a problem in the black community, just more of one) of a city in Maryland.

This sort of shit has got to stop.

Go to: http://justiceforoscar.blogspot.com/

http://www.newsreel.org/nav/title.asp?tc=CN0203

this was a demonic ritual murder just like biggie

and tupac yusuf hawkins and so many others

Sean Bell

just like the 1,452 Black Afrikan children are KILLED !!!! each day!!!!!!! by the heinous act of
ABORTION!!!
visit http://www.blackgenocide.org
in amerikkka alone!!

peace to those worthy of it

this was a premeditated murder

like the rest of OUR KILLINGS BY POLICE!!

I support reparations repatriation

to stop these GENOCIDAL killings

we are still en BONDAGE benot fooled

Black man/woman/child you are GODS

THE whites are DEVILS and the rest are your enemy!\\f

fire burn

mark
babayaw