TNC,
Didn't you make us a promise last week that you weren't going to get all riled up by the noise on the network hooplah?
C'mon, man. This is beneath you, right? Well, I don't know. But more importantly, this Juan Williams stuff is boring. Neither does any of this help me understand anything.
Yup, I sure did. I don't have a logical defense here. I violated my own standard. So, since I 't don't have a decent rebuttal, I can only give you my thinking. Emotionally, it's a lot easier for me to tune out Hannity, Limbaugh etc. A part of it is that those guys are, let's just say it, nuts. Another part of it is that Williams--unlike Limbaugh and Hannity--is a man who has actually helped this country better understand itself, and helped black people better understand themselves. In other words, I have a respect for Juan Williams, as a thinker, that I simply don't have for most of the clucking heads on cable.
There's more. Williams has, of late, been obsessed with gangsta rap and the cultural failings of young black men. Chief among his complaints is how we talk about women. It simply boggles the mind that Williams would then invoke the most ancient of stereotypes about black women. Moreover, it boggles the mind that Williams would actually buy into this idea that Obama is actually some sort of closet radical. As a reporter and as writer--which neither Limbaugh, nor Hannity, nor O'Reilly, nor Scarborough are--I just expect a little more.
And then there's one final thing. Look--none of us are clean. But for the past few years we've been treated to older black men holding young black men to a standard, which they themselves have failed to uphold. I get skeptical when I see lazy thinking (be careful about the Cosby/Obama comparisons). I get even more skeptical when I hear people moralizing a little too hard. And I get downright suspicious, when I see people airing everyone else's dirty laundy--except their own. Like I said, nobody's clean. But your past mistakes should chasten--not embolden.
I go back and forth between wanting to challenge this stuff, and feeling like it's a waste of time. Blogging is so emotional. Unlike print, there is no screen between us. I try to keep the temperature down around these parts. But the more I blog, the more I find that while that's an important goal, it's impossible to make it an absolute.
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
At times like this, the only thing you can do is get out "Man of La Mancha" que it up, an turn up the volume.
I think your own standard is faulty. Perhaps you should seek to limit rather than eliminate. Blogging is indeed emotional and you need to express yourself. You wouldn't be honest if you didn't and quite frankly I'd tire of you and peace out.
Juan Williams is also more than a Fox News shill; he appears regularly as a commentator/expert/Wise Old Guy on NPR. So calling him out is about more than what shows up on the cable shows, IMO. Plus, it's Michelle, dammit.
I'd agree, the standard is faulty. I've had to remind myself of the subject quote ("A wise man said don't argue with fools/'cause people from a distance can't tell who is who") many, many times... this morning even. But as picking your battles goes, Williams deserved a smackdown of righteous fury and the post was in every way appropriate.
Just because I can school myself that a grown man should not throw joints when someone merely talks a little greasy doesn't mean that there isn't a time and place to break fool (and break rules).
It's only human that certain people push our buttons more than others, but all these jokers should be held to the same basic standards. Decent, thoughtful conservative commentary should be part of cable news, but thinly-veiled racial or sexist remarks should be out of bounds.
I'd like to think that (as I said in another thread) that it's just the Fox News environment Juan Williams is in that turned him into a blathering fool, but that simply lets him off way too easily.
Dude we pay you for your EMOTION and your thought. Or we pay Netflix who pays Atlantic who pays you or whatever.
Either way, I don't mind the emotionalism from time to time.
k1
ryanculver.blogspot.com
Well I would definitely not agree that the Juan Williams stuff is boring but whatever. It is certainly no less appropriate than a discussion about say World of Warcraft.
I think the problem with cats like Williams, which is to say the reason they deserve some commentary, is that they are positioned to have some credibility because they are criticizing "one of their own." Williams is black, and he identifies himself, however fraudulently, as a liberal. It is worth a bit more work, in my opinion, to discredit putative allies who make the sort of commentary that he makes quite typically.
There is also the issue of a larger set of social attitudes and perceptions towards black women which could very easily be ignored here. Certainly no one on say, MSNBC, is likely to raise it as a topic. If it isn't the purpose of the blogosphere to raise these types of issues and foster discussion around them, not sure how useful it is after all.
That's why you always have to have exceptions to the rule. There will be times when ignorant stuff is said on Tee Vee that is easy to let go. There are other times when bringing it up would probably be counter productive. But then there are situations such as this one that hit you in such a way that you MUST respond no matter what. Thats called being true to yourself. I don't think you have to apologize to anyone for that. Just like when you gave me the explanation of why you were on a mission on that other issue. When you start limiting what you will put on your own blog, you put yourself in a box and make your own universe smaller. And I for one don't think that would be a good thing.
TNC...i definitly think you should challange this stuff. There should be some limits to it, i agree, and your readers are probably the ones to enforce that. But i think that, because of the fact that you have something very valuable to say, i think you should say it. It might seem kind of selfish, but i rather have you put in 5 minutes of extra time to adress the issue, than me having to fumble with my own thoughts for 2 hours trying to come up with something half-assed to say! You have a stage for a reason!
I'd like to think that (as I said in another thread) that it's just the Fox News environment Juan Williams is in that turned him into a blathering fool, but that simply lets him off way too easily.
Alas, gaucho, Fox News went on the air in 1996.
--Begin Ducking
This is a parallel to why what Rev. Lowery said bothered me and what Rick Warren said didn't.
--End Ducking
And on another side note, how long until Juan starts yelling at those kids to get off his lawn?
Well, you've done a good job here of further defining the standard you intially laid out.
Sometimes "the noise" fades as quickly as it's produced because it lacks any heft, like "Scarborough asking Andrea Mitchell if Obama was more likely to listen to career CIA professional or a 'left-wing law professor from Berkeley.'" That shit is worth ignoring.
But sometimes "the noise" has a reverberating effect: Michelle makes a comment to the effect "this is the first time in her life she's really proud of her country," and "the noise" begins with a question of patriotism, and then reverberates into chatter about "black anger," "victimhood," etc., and now you've got a narrative.
When Williams plays into the narrative---no, furthers that narrative---with the ridiculous notion that Michelle Obama tends to use "militant anger" to express her views, well then "the noise" has become a bit too loud to ignore. It needs to be shutdown lest our heads blowup.
"There's more. Williams has, of late, been obsessed with gangsta rap and the cultural failings of young black men. Chief among his complaints is how we talk about women. It simply boggles the mind that Williams would then invoke the most ancient of stereotypes about black women. Moreover, it boggles the mind that Williams would actually buy into this idea that Obama is actually some sort of closet radical. "
What did everyone think was going to happen to the right-of-center balck commentators who have made a living saying things white people would never get away with to white conservatives once Obama won? I mean, Shelby Steele's subtitle to his book about Obama was "Why He Can't Win" ferchrissakes. Williams thinks black people won't get taken seriously until they give up on hip-hop. And now you've got a guy brushing his shoulder off and invoking Lil Wayne on the stump, and he not only won in a landslide, his intial favorability ratings are the 2nd highest in history, behind only Eisenhower.
If it's not just Fox News hackery, then it's a crisis of identity for guys like Williams. The quasi-racist stuff doesn't really work anymore, so they've either got to turn it up or give up the cash cow.
@Persia
Yes, he's done things before he was a part of Fox News that he should be ashamed of. But my general sense is that he was part of the "reality-based community" before he joined Fox News, and now his commentary is concern trolling at best, really offensive at worst.
Bottom line, he's a tool, and he deserved to get called out on this.
Call a spade a spade. I come here for the honesty, the emotion, nuance, and Poetry Fridays.
Kuros, if you did not learn something then perhaps you did not read the post and the comments that followed. I'm a relatively young buck, so I googled Mr. Ture (formerly Stokeley Carmichael). Not only is comparing the First Lady to Mr. Ture way off base, but even if there were similarities - so what?
None of us are clean and those who are wise learn from their past failings and do not seek to repeat them. Instead, Juan Williams has decided to continue his history of harassment of women by making baseless comparisons and attacking the FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES. Who has done NOTHING to merit such attacks, except...i don't know...put herself through law school, have a successful professional career, give back to her community, be supportive and loving to her husband and children, be appreaciative of the sacrifice of her parents, and champion military families....who needs trash like that in the White House???
Unfuckingbelievable.
Juan knows better, I'm sure his mother would not appreciate such disrespect shown on national fucking television. He should be ashamed, but like most of the pundits on Fox, he has none.
Blog on Coates.
When stuff like that comes out of nowhere (where even O'reilly is trying to drown out your nonsense), it makes you wonder if it's genuine or if he's just shilling for the audience. This guy used to be respectable but now he walks around with a tin cup and sand in his pocket.
from a 1992--that's 1992--American Journalism Review article:
"For many journalists, the crystallizing moment was the revelation that Washington Post writer Juan Williams, one of Thomas' most ardent defenders, was himself an alleged harasser. The Post had printed a Williams column minimizing the gravity of the charges against Thomas without disclosing that Williams had been accused of verbally abusing female staff members over a period of at least four years. Post management also initially held back the paper's media writer, Howard Kurtz, from reporting on the angry reaction among Post staff members. It wasn't until WRC-TV, a local NBC affiliate, broke the story that the Post mentioned the controversy in its pages. And only after a protest by 116 newsroom employees did the paper concede that the charges against Williams were founded. Unlike most incidents of sexual harassment in newsrooms, the Williams case was widely reported, largely because of its intersection with the Thomas hearings and the conflict-of-interest question it raised."
That's Williams ardently defending Clarence Thomas by the way. Where is the evidence this guy has ever been any kind of liberal or progressive?
Juan Williams trades off - in the consciousness of a lot of well-meaning folk - his association with "Eyes On the Prize." But he wasn't the creator of that project, he didn't do the original interviews or archival research that were the core of the show's greatness - he was a writer who got hired for a very, very good gig that, ultimately, he's proven he didn't deserve. Writers on those projects - even granted he was tasked with pulling to gether the print version of the documentary - are hired hands who, more often than not, provide re-writes, intros and seques for work the director has already sketched out. ( I will bet money that he had major assistance on his Marshall biography that he barely credits. Williams is not a scholar or original thinker - he proves that every time he opens his mouth.)
The guy is a tool and his stock in trade is dispensing the worst sort of "conventional wisdom." He's not Taylor Branch and never was. He deserved to be kicked for this shit about Michelle, but let's face it - Williams has been dishing out dogshit for decades, going at least as far back as his defense of Clarence Thomas.
Apparently three posts on this topic point to the idea more people are hooked into the implications of Williams' commentary than a vidblog debate about the legalization of drugs. The Arizona Cardinals are in the Super Bowl, and they got there with D.
The Williams nonsense is not just about the mediacracy, but hooks into a range of cultural and political considerations that have everything to do with the pseudo "postracial" concept with which what is happening is constantly being undercut with trivialization.
One size fits all doesn't cut it. However, I'm not very interested, TN, in Bill O'Reilly, no matter how reasonable he wishes to appear or haughtily he might interview the then next President of the United States.
I thought the best mission statement I saw posted here was something to the effect that Ta Nehisi has an attitude, but that isn't why he has(n't) got it together.
Argh! TNC, please don't be apologetic. Posts like the one on Juan Williams are among those I like the best at this excellent blog. I could whine about the World of Warcraft posts that I don't read, but why? Instead I just don't click on them, but I'm sure lots of your readers do. You should go ahead and write/type what you bloody well feel like, emotion and all.
Coates,
Williams needs to be checked. If his White Overloards want to attack Michelle, then they should have to do it themselves. Kneegrows like Williams need to be put on blast: we're not having it. We're not having these attacks on The First Lady. Period.
I'm white so I'm not keen on the White Overlord tosh, but Rikyrah is completely right in the attack.
These things are test cases; If there is a consistent and organized reaction to this sort of nonsense, it will stay at level and/or recede.
If they can get away with it, then they will push further and further and further.
The election was won by taking things seriously. Though this stuff is a joke in some respects, it's very serious in others. You take this nonsense out of the hands of the clowns, you weaken them hugely.
Someone needs to imagine what the reaction would have been if Laura Bush had been spoken about in such a manner, and apply it now.
@rikyrah
What the hell is a kneegrow? I bet it's not something that goes on cucumber sandwiches.
rikyrah...LOLz! I had to reread that line about 3 times before i got it! Other than that, i agree to the fullest!
I'm white so I'm not keen on the White Overlord tosh, but Rikyrah is completely right in the attack.
It's one of the oldest hustles out there:
Want to attack a Black person....find another Black person to do it. Find the Blackface- literally- for your attack.
When you get the scent of ' Rent-A-Kneegrow' on you, as Williams has, it's hard to wash it off. Your words are never seen as your own, and skeptics (like me) are always wondering who pushed him out in Blackface to do their bidding.
Juan's a harasser too,
Go on brush your coke can off.
...
You gotta get...that...pube off your Coke can.
Everyone,
I enjoy the blog. But I was very impressed when TNC made his initial vow to not engage the jabbering class.
I think TNC makes a meaningful distinction between say, Juan Williams and his recent comment, and O'Reilly or O'Hannity and their usual nonsense. But he still violated his rule, did he not?
My vote is that he sticks to his vow. Others obviously feel differently, and that's fine. But its my blog, too!
@Rikyrah,
No fair making pedantic nitwits like me read phonetic spelling.
You should see the dent in my head where I slapped it.
Nah, don't second guess yourself. That post was tight, not to mention dead on. Juan was being a tool and a hypocrite. He deserved his calling out.