« From the annals of post-racialism | Main | Sam Cooke does it better than you » They aren't who we thought they were19 Jan 2009 11:00 am
Sorry Donovan didn't get it. I can't see the Cards doing in the Steelers. Here's something fascinating. Tomlin is now the third black head coach to get in the Super Bowl--and owes his job to the Rooney Rule, a particularly effective Affirmative Action program. I like the Rooney Rule--it requires clubs to interview minorities, but not hire them. Still the interview puts you in the mix, while not closing out competition. In other words it combats the "old boys club" mentality, but still allows for merit. In terms of coaching, the NFL is really approaching the NBA, which deaded this issue long ago. Props to them
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The Superbowl is going to be closer than a lot of people think. Blitzing a lot means Fitzgerald will get a lot of single coverage. That hasn't worked out so well for most teams. And the Cardinals have the ability to pressure without blitzing so they can play their Cover 2 more. I am not saying they will win, but I wouldn't count Warner out.
Now if only we could get a Rooney Rule for College football.
I don't know if you caught this but Doug Williams was on ESPN yesterday and he made a point I honestly hadn't thought about. No matter who won yesterday we would have had either a black GM, a black head coach, or a black qb in the Superbowl. As it stands we have a black GM and a black head coach. Thats a lot of progress man. More than people really know.
I'm just bummed that the Ravens didn't make it - and on the 200th birthday of the man from whom we get the name "Ravens" (that'd be Edgar Allen Poe, of course)! But at least our Birds made it this far. Not like the O's, who seem to find new and exciting ways to end up in or near last place every single season (curse you, Peter Angelos).
The Steelers don't blitz nearly as often as their reputation, and they almost never use those "all-out, send everybody" type of blitzes.
I am rooting for Arizona now, bot because I like them or any NFC solidarity, but just because it will nullify the "Change the Playoff Selection process!" chants.
I'm really happy for Cardinal fans, but man do I feel bad for McNabb and Reid. I went over to the Philadelphia Inquirer this morning and the writers and fan comments are already starting the blame/defend McNabb and Reid squabble. Poor bastards.
I'm with sg, I think Arizona has a good shot. Fitzgerald's freaking on fire, Boldin will be 100%, the running game looks great, and the defense is playing well. With the way they're rushing the passer right now, Arizona's gotta love the match-up with the matadors playing on Pittsburgh's O-line.
Here's what I don't get about the Reid\Mcnabb bashing--save that maybe that one year with TO, they have never, ever had a great team during McNabb's tenure. Not ever. He's never had great receivers (excepting T.O.) and he's never had that pound it out back. Donovan McNabb is, and has been, the Eagles. The parallels with Cunningham are eerie--except I think McNabb is better. Cunningham was more thrilling, but I think McNabb is much more mature.
Coates
You have to go back and remember how they booed McNabb's selection in the first place. Philly doesn't have fans, they have assholes who cheer when you are doing well. And when you aren't or aren't winning it all then they label you a bum because of what's called projection in psychological terms. The truth is they aren't treating Donovan much worse if at all than they always treat the team's QBs since probably the 80s. I remember them cheering on Bobby Hoying at first because he backed up Rodney Peete. Then when he finally got a chance to start they booed him out of the stadium when he wasn't an instant winner. Same for Koy Detmer who was a folk hero for a time. The funny thing is most of them think that booing their team shows that they are "true fans", when it really just shows that they are in fact assholes.
The Cardinals are getting 6.5 points right now. That seems about right, but I think I'll take the Cardinals and the points.
I'd just like to brag a bit, and let you all know that I'm 6/6 betting over the past two weekends. Thanks to Polamalu TD last night.
Also, that was a terrible call last night when they overruled Holmes' catch. He caught the ball and was reaching for the goal line.
McNabb needs to move on. He'll never get the love and respect he deserves from Philly fans.
What's with Boldin's freakout at the end of the game. Supposedly he stormed off the field at the end rather than celebrate the victory with his teammates. If true, that's pretty damn bush league.
Oh, and Limas Sweed's monster block on Ivie does not make up for that dropped TD. If they would have lost, he should have been beaten.
Stacy
That was actually the right call but its because the NFL tweaked the rules as it pertains to catches a couple of years ago. Now you in order to have a catch you have to have two feet down AND make a football move when in the open field and if you are making a diving/falling catch you have to have two feet down AND keep control after you hit the ground.
Now in all reality, and I understand why it wasn't challenged, McGahee's fumble really wasn't a fumble because he got two feet down but didn't make a football move before he got trucked. With him getting hurt I am sure Harbaugh didn't think about reviewing it but the call should have been overturned.
I don't think it's racial--I only cited Cunningham because he was the last great QB they had. The whole "booing at the slightest error" shows you're a "true fan" logic is beguiling. More likely, you need to get a life. It's all projection.
Stacy, just as bad on that Sweed drop was him rolling around like he was injured, forcing the Steelers to burn a timeout, which they really needed there at the end of the half.
sg, I agree that was the right call, but I think that rule needs some tweaking.
sgwhite,
With him getting hurt I am sure Harbaugh didn't think about reviewing it but the call should have been overturned.
Harbaugh used both challenges in the first half anyway so he couldn't have challenged it if he wanted to... but yeah, that McGahee injury really just ended the Ravens' desire to even try to put on a show. They were done.
Donovan and Minnesota would be a great match.
sg,
Reaching for the goal line WAS the football move. You're not always going to be able to make a cut if you are wrapped up. You can't reach out with a ball unless you have control over it. He could have tucked the ball away, but he wanted that TD. That was a catch. But I understand your point.
I will concede that, by NFL rules, I suppose that isn't a catch. But something is seriously wrong if that is not a catch.
How bad did Phil Simms suck last night? He's terrible. On that pass interference in the endzone, he initally said it was the right call because the corner was face guarding the WR. This dude gets paid to announce football games? I agree that it was PI due to the contact, but face guarding is not illegal. Announcers get that wrong all the time.
dwhite
They showed Bolden and the OC almost coming to blows on the sideline and after that Boldin wasn't in for anymore plays. I think he left so he didn't say the wrong thing especially in light of the moment. He gave an interview later and said all the right things so I don't think it was bush league, it was probably the right thing to do in light of the circumstances.
br
You get two challenges a half. Harbaugh still had at least one left at that point.
dwhite again
Actually Donovan in Chi town is what I am betting the house on if he were to end up leaving. But then again imagine him going to the Lions and being able to play with Calvin Johnson. Don't laugh, the Lions might have a grip of money to spend and he would get to play in Chicago every year. Not only that he could play inside in a dome where I think he would be a lot better than outside. He was like superman when he was at Syracuse.
Stacy
Aikman was MUCH worse. So much so I had to dedicate a blog post to one of the dumbest comments I have ever heard made during a sports event.
"No matter what the outcome we are going to look back on that play as the critical turning point in the game"
Thats what he said after the Cardinals guy intercepted the ball and then was stripped from behind. I wonder if anybody is calling that "the critical turning point of the game" today.
sgwhite,
It's two challenges per game. With the caveat that you get a third if you win the first two challenges. Harbaugh had two challenges in the first half, went 1-1, and thus was left with none at the end of the game.
But it's all good...
You do not get two challenges a half. You get two challenges. If you get both correct, you get a third challenge.
Yeah, sg, I heard Aikman say that. I don't know why color guys feel the need to do that. Because, exactly like you said, he was proven wrong.
br
You are right I was wrong. I really thought they had two a half so I don't have any excuse but I should have known better.
sg,
Could they make the replay rules any more arbitrary and convoluted? Did you see that kickoff in the Arizona-Philly game where the ball was wrongly ruled out of bounds? What a stupid thing to not be able to challenge! It's the easiest thing to check on instant replay.
Several things,
Stacy (or anyone living in the St. Louis area, Arkansas, or Illinois [south of Urbana-Champaign - which is apparently the line of demarcation between St. Louis sports fans and Chicago sports fans]),
What do you guys think of the Cardinals (football team)? I mean, they were in St. Louis for 27 years. Do you guys still like them? Have fond memories of the Dan Dierdorf/Neil Lomax era? I am just curious.
Pittsburgh Steeler fans (if there are any),
Last night, during the presentation of the LaMar Hunt trophy, Rod Woodson presented the trophy. I was a bit surprised at this. Didn't he leave the Steelers on a bad note? Didn't he make disparaging remarks about Steeler fans? I don't know, it just seemed odd that of all the former Steelers to present the trophy, it was Rod Woodson.
Amen on Simms. I hate when they get rules wrong and Simms is the worst. How the hell can you enjoy the sport enough to play in the league and then enjoy it enough to devote half a year to covering it in retirement, but not enjoy it enough to learn the damn rules? Pretty bad night for announcing in both games.
I thought it was two challenges a half as well for some strange reason. Don't have a clue how I got mixed up on that.
br
What it comes down to is that you are always going to have human error which can affect the play. The problem with that play was the dumb ass ref blew his whistle with out being sure. At that point the play is dead and of course its drilled into your head not to do anything after the whistle.
So lets say one team says fuck it we are still going to try to get the ball (usually the team that didn't fumble in the first place) but the other team (usually the one who did the fumbling)actually stops with the whistle. Then the contention is that even if replay shows it was a fumble one of the teams (usually the fumblers) weren't afforded the opportunity to try to get it because they stopped with the whistle.
I know we forget now but remember that replay was a very contentious issue when it first came into being. So those kinds of rules were put in so the NFL could cover its ass.
With the NFL you don't normally see nuance unless its on the side of increasing scoring and making things easier for offensive players.
SG,
The reason Aikman made the comment regarding the strip being the "most important play of the game" when it was only (I think) the second quarter was because the person who did the stripping, DeSean Jackson, is one of the up-and coming stars in the NFL. As Dr. Z (from Sports Illustrated) would say, in order to call the "first-tier" games, you need to hype the stars.
Having said that, although what Aikman said seemed odd at the time, I didn't think it was much of a big deal. It was a good play by DeSean Jackson, who did show a lot of hustle sprinting from the opposite end of the field to catch the guy. And, the Cardinals would have good field position, and the way they were playing in the first half, probably would have added another touchdown. Also, I have a soft spot for DeSean Jackson because he played for Cal.
Fighting Words
I like Jackson too and it was in fact a big play. The point wasn't that he said it was a great play. The point is that he ASSumed quite obviously that the Eagles would win the game. Otherwise what would lead anyone to believe that the play was the "critical turning point" in the game. And he didn't say "if the Eagles win". He expressly said "no matter what the outcome". That's a sign of being a clown. And while I love Aikman for what he did when he was a Cowboy, he is one of the dumbest commentators in history.
Not only that at least 4 times during the game he praised the Eagles offensive line for "great pass protection" when the Cardinals were only rushing 3 people.
Here's what I don't get about the Reid\Mcnabb bashing--save that maybe that one year with TO, they have never, ever had a great team during McNabb's tenure. Not ever. He's never had great receivers (excepting T.O.) and he's never had that pound it out back. Donovan McNabb is, and has been, the Eagles.
Didn't the Eagles have the #3 defense in the league this year? Haven't they been pretty consistently a top 10 defense during this run with McNabb? I think the point you are trying to make is that Philly has never had a great offense around McNabb. McNabb has never had that pound it out back because they would rather throw the ball to Westbrook than pound it out.
Seriously, is anybody surprised that the Eagles lost again?
Fighting Words, I don't remember any bad blood between the Steelers and Woodson. I still own my Woodson jersey from '94, and I still loved him even when he went to play for the Ravens. Other fans may remember differently, though.
Fighting Words,
The Cardinals moved in '87, I believe, so I was only five years old. I don't really hold any affection for them. I know people like my Father, and others his age still hold players like Hart, Deirdorf, Metcalf, Lomax in high esteem, but I don't know of any Cardinals fans in the St. Louis area. The hatred for Bill Bidwell kind of spilled over to the entire franchise. Dierdorf is still kind of a big deal in town. He and Hart own a Steakhouse downtown that still does really well.
I will be rooting for the Cardinals, however, because I still really like Kurt Warner. Most of Rams fans feel the same way. Most of St. Louis will be rooting for their division foes in two weeks.
The Eagles have had good defenses, so that comment earlier was slightly over stated. It's been McNabb & the D. McNabb is the leader though.
I would be surprised if AZ wins the SB. I just think the Steelers' D is playing too well right now.
I'd love to see McNabb in a Jets uni. For all that he's done in his career with mostly 2nd rate receivers he is way underrated.
I thought it was two challenges a half as well for some strange reason
Because, during the game, Jim Nantz said that you get 2 per half. All of the announcers were in rare form.
I can't see the Cards doing in the Steelers
I didn't see them doing in the Panthers or the Eagles either. I think it's anyone's game. Warner is going to respond to pressure a lot better than Falco did, and Falco didn't do terribly.
save that maybe that one year with TO, they have never, ever had a great team during McNabb's tenure. Not ever. He's never had great receivers (excepting T.O.) and he's never had that pound it out back. Donovan McNabb is, and has been, the Eagles.
This is similar to how the Broncos were under Dan Reeves (and his tubby successor who Dallas fans are now acquainted with). There were some talented receivers over the years, but there was never any sort of run game to compliment the passing game. Until Terrell Davis made the run a real threat, the Broncos were Elway's arm and that was ultimately never sufficient to win the big one.
I'd like to see McNabb get a ring, but I'll be pleased for Arizona if they get one too.
Setting aside my total Steeler homerism, I always take a great defense over a great offense.
Until Terrell Davis made the run a real threat, the Broncos were Elway's arm and that was ultimately never sufficient to win the big one.
Um...was TD there for the "the Drive"? Elway is the king of the 4th quarter comeback (47). How many 4th quarter comebacks do McNabb and Reid have? I'd guess somewhere around 15.
I pretty much agree with this
Fighting Words,
Woodson left the Steelers in a salary dispute - they would not pay what he thought he was worth. My memory is that his contracts with SF and Baltimore bore him out. I'm not sure what he expected - the Steelers let Franco Harris walk under similar circumstances (before the salary cap). The Rooneys are a penurious bunch, but it seems to work for them.
There were some hard feelings with the fans, but I think that most everyone is over it now.
Steelers were just a better team yesterday-I was hoping the Ravens might be able to steal another one, but whatever idiot special teamer it was who got that presonal foul call ruined their chance of that. The big difference was at QB--Roethlisberger made a couple of great plays avoiding the rush and finding guys downfield, while Flacco looked off the whole game. (Credit to the Steelers secondary on that, too.)
The Ravens badly need another good WR and an upgrade on the offensive line for the running game. They were killed in the playoffs by their poor corner play, too, but they had several guys there out injured. Their big challenge is going to be on the free agent market--Ray Lewis and Suggs are both FAs this year, and maybe Bart Scott as well. If they lose Rex Ryan and tow of those guys, their defense could become mediocre very, very quickly. Ed Reed is great, but free safety is probably the least important position on the defense. And Haloti Ngata is their only impact d-lineman. Their whole defense is a matter of scheming and great LBs.
I will be rooting for the Cardinals, however, because I still really like Kurt Warner. Most of Rams fans feel the same way.
See, whereas I like McNabb personally and just think he has a fatal flaw that makes him merely a really good QB instead of a HOFer, I have a visceral hatred of Kurt Warner. He has no humility or sense of humor about himself. Throw in the fact that his wife is a loon and I see very little to like about him. I grudgingly admit, however, that this win probably puts him the Hall of Fame.
Just Karl,
Tell me the year, the Eagles had a great team. Pointing out that they had the Number 3 Defense doesn't mean they had a great team, this year. Also, Elway didn't win the Super Bowl that year. He didn't win a Super Bowl--in fact he wasn't even competitive in one--until they got TD. Facts are hard things.
"He has no humility or sense of humor about himself."
The only thing I don't like about Kurt Warner is the fact that he's a Jesus freak. But I've learned to deal with it. I'm not sure where you get the idea that he has no humility. He's competitive, and he didn't like being benched in St. Louis. But who would? The dude is a winner, and I think most people can't get past his preaching. I know nothing about him personally.
But yeah, his wife is crazy and looks like the Mom from Webster
That Balt-Pit game was one of the hardest hitting games I've watched in a long time. There are not a whole lot of wrinkles when you play the same team for the third time. I think there were 4 or 5 jump off the couch big hits. That Limas Sweed crackback block was incredible. I'm not a Steelers fan but it made up for the drop. He'll catch that ball 9 out of 10 times, but the willingness to block like that is rare and shows heart.
McGahee got crushed. It was a totally legal hit, I thought. At what point is the QB hanging these guys out to dry? Does he know he's going to take that hit before the ball is snapped or was Flacco getting his guys killed?
I've never understood the Philly fans' dislike of McNabb. He wins a lot of games, including all of those big games that at least get them to the conference championships. It's a little like the Braves' fans complainging about not enough World Series wins. Better to be a fan of the Eagles than cheer for the Lions.
As for this year, the Cardinals scored 32 points on that great Philly defence. You can hold Reid responsible for some of the defensive deficiencies, but McNabb wasn't the one getting beat by Fitzgerald all day long.
Also, Elway didn't win the Super Bowl that year. He didn't win a Super Bowl--in fact he wasn't even competitive in one--until they got TD.
In contrast to Eagles fans, however, Denver fans (and media) never got down on Elway--who is, and probably always will be, first among Denver sports figures.
Reeves was another story, it's probably correct that he was culpable, in much the same way that Reid hasn't managed to build a team worth of McNabb. It wouldn't take that much. Add a beefy, every-down back and use Westbrook as a Reggie Bush type double threat and the team would already be much improved. Trade for someone like T.J. Houshmandzadeh and they'd be amazing.
Steelers should be able to actually run the ball against the Cardinals. Best way to contain Boldin and Fitzgerald is to keep them off the field.
Prediction: Steelers 23 - Cardinals 11
Steelers should be able to actually run the ball against the Cardinals.
You'd think so, but I thought that Michael Turner, DeAngelo Williams and Westbrook would be able to run the ball on the Cardinals. Don't know that I'd take Willie Parker running all over them for granted when none of the above have been able to.
I think it's pretty much anybody's game. I think that Pittsburgh has the edge, but with the line at 6 points, my money would be on the Cards.
Anyone think Lurie might can Reid and hire Gruden?
Him and McNabb together would be fearsome.
@Pittsburgh Staash:
Amen! Ball control offense is our best hope. If they can get a lot blocking for Parker and screens to Miller they'll be in good shape for most of the night.
Having said that, as a Pitt alum, I will be rooting for Fitzgerald to have at least one highlight moment. Yeah, I wanna have my cake and eat it too. Can you blame me?
Statistically, this is the greatest defense that McNabb has ever had. In 2004 with TO, the defense ranked 10th in the league. Obviously, you don't consider Westbrook a "great" RB like TD, but the guy is an all-pro. I would never make the claim that the Eagles have ever been great.
And in the Drive scenario, the Eagles equal the Browns. McNabb is Brian Sipe. Elway won, what, three straight AFC Championships over the Browns?
Woodson left the Steelers in a contract dispute. I don't know anyone here who begrudged him that money other than the Rooneys. Which they do to everyone, ask Franco Harris. I still have a Woodson jersey and fond memories of meeting him and partying at his restaurant in Station Square.
Much as I would dearly have loved a Turnpike Bowl, I'm just as happy to take on Whiz and my alma mater's Fitz. I have a soft spot for both of them. Until they play my Steelers, that is. Then I hope they get crushed (but only after Fitz shows once again how he was robbed of the Heisman).
They sure weren't last night. I don't see how anyone can expect McNabb should have won it for them when the Eagles D gave up 32 points. I looked it up and the Patriots, Steelers, 49ers, and Cowboys combined have only won 2 playoff games when they gave up 30+ points. Ever.
Montana, Young, Aikman, and Brady never overcame a 30+ point deficit to win a playoff game, but the McNabb haters won't even pause to think about that. Not his fault the Eagles D didn't show up to play.
Juba, I wish for the day Lurie cans Reid.
The Steelers are a great team but I got a little frustrated by the play-calling yesterday once Pittsburg had a small lead. It became really predictable. Run on 1st and 2nd, get nowhere, get into a third-and-long, pass, and, usually, punt. Up until the Polamalu interception, the Ravens were right in it.
Steelers win.
Teams very rarely win on their first trip to the Super Bowl.
"Teams very rarely win on their first trip to the Super Bowl."
You mean franchises very rarely win on their first trip to a Super Bowl? That seems to make some sense. But if the Steelers were the team that hadn't made the Super Bowl in their history, and the Cardinals had 6 rings, would you pick the Cardinals?
TC,
Didn't the Steelers pass over Ken Wisenhunt to hire Tomlin? Everyone thought K'dub was the heir apparent to Bill Cowher until Tomlin blew them away in the interview (which might not have happened w/o the Rooney rule right?). I wonder how long before the sports media idiots make this about those two and the "who got the better deal" type drama they will use to hype a game that doesn't need much to hype it in the first place.
IDTT,
I think you're exactly right. I think the other cordinator from Pittsburgh was also in the running until the hired Tomlin. Seemed to work out for everybody...
A lot of excuses for McNabb here, but he left a lot of big plays on the field yesterday because he missed open receivers. He reads defenses well, has presence in the pocket, can take a hit, does almost everything well but sometimes he's just not accurate. He's a good QB who takes too much shit from cro magnons in Philly but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve shit sometimes. Yesterday he didn't play well.
Ed Reed is directly responsible for the first field goal - the go-ahead points, can't stop Santonio from reaching the endzone, and the only comment on here is "Ed Reed is great"?! He makes big plays, but he gives up big plays too. Doesn't sound like the best free safety ever to me.
I actually learned a few things from sports talk radio today. The NFL wasn't originally segregated, but in 1934, the Redskins' owner persuaded the other owners, including Art Rooney, to institute a color ban, which persisted until after WWII. I like the Rooney Rule too, but I didn't know until today that it was a sort of atonement for past sins.
Wow, who would have thought that the owner of the most racist mascot in sports was in favor of segregation of the NFL?
Reed made some big mistakes against the Steelers, but most players will do that from time to time. If you're in the secondary, it's inevitable that you're going to get beat sometimes. He's also single-handedly won a number of games for the Ravens over his career with INTs and runbacks. I'm not ready to annoint him the best of all time, but it's absurd to say he isn't a great player because of one bad game.
In fact, despite a couple of high profile miscues, I'm not ready to say he had a terrible game against the Steelers. Playing against a team that like to throw deep, with (IIRC) 3 of t heir top 4 CBs hurt and another one injured during the game, the Steelers still only had one play where a receiver got open deep. Since that's Reed's primary job on most plays, I think he was probably doing a pretty good job. (Not that you can really tell on this from watching TV.)
Wow, didn't take too many comments to get to the Ole Ironsides of arguments, 'Philly fans are ungrateful.' Piss off - the way I've heard y'all 'Boys fans throw Romo under the bus for his late-season foibles, and to witness the transcendent fickleness of NY fans, well, it makes Philly's criticism read like Stuart Smalley.
After the Iggles loss, I can honestly say this is the one NFCCG I wouldn't blame McNabb; only a handful of passes thrown at his receiver's knees, and one of the few times he managed to carry over his excellent TO rate into the postseason.
Also, moar clevar on you for brining up the booing of McNabb's selection - Saint Nick's battered dome feel slighted at his exclusion from your cliched diatribe.
Led
The problem is if McNabb is a little off on a throw even if its a completion you have jack asses like Aikman ragging on him about it. But how many times did he point out Kurt Warner missing wide open recievers like the one to Boldin right down the seam that was a sure TD that he over threw? Hell half of his throws to Fitzgerald are terrible but LF just goes up and makes plays. McNabb had 375 yds passing Sunday and 3 TDs. Don't forget that he led the Eagles back to the point where they were leading the game in the 4th quarter.
Bobby Toledo
First off name a great player who never got burned. Brian Dawkins who is a great player got got pwned by Fitzgerald on that first TD where he ran through Dawkin's tackle. Does that make BD a shitty player? Does it take away from all of his other bone jarring hits? Besides that he still made plenty of plays on a day when the Ravens' offense totally abandoned them. Now if you don't think Ed Reed is great, name a better safety. If you can't then realize you are a hater.
"But how many times did he point out Kurt Warner missing wide open recievers like the one to Boldin right down the seam that was a sure TD that he over threw?"
He did point that out. And let's not kid ourselves. I like McNabb, but he had A LOT of balls that were overthrown or thrown behind the receiver. A lot more than Warner.
"Hell half of his throws to Fitzgerald are terrible but LF just goes up and makes plays."
Um...no. That's not true.
The only reason Warner has two MVP's, and is still in the league is BECAUSE of his accuracy.
Wow, who would have thought that the owner of the most racist mascot in sports was in favor of segregation of the NFL?
Well, yeah, but I have to quibble: the Cleveland Indians mascot is way worse.