You don't say. Obama was the next Kennedy. Then he became the next McGovern. Or was that the next Stevenson? Now he's the next FDR. And Jindal is the next him--because he's, you know, swarthy. The thing about Obama that people, apparently, still don't get is that thus far he has proved himself a damn good politician. He is not simply the eloquent black dude who won--although he's that too. He's the dude who reinvented campaign fundraising, who pioneered the use of social networking, who won Virginia and North Carolina, who ended 50 plus 1.Put simply: Hazy appeals to precedent are teh lamesauce. Jindal may well recover, and may well ultimately be the man. But it won't be because he was the next anything. It'll be because he's found what works for Bobby.
« That Exe File | Main | Red Eyed » A journey back in time25 Feb 2009 03:00 pm
With great respect for Megan, and much love, I think it's worth revisiting our debate from a few months back. You can read our banter, here, here and here. I stand by this essential argument:
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With great respect for Megan
You're just about the last blogger I expected to see go the TNR contrarian-for-its-own-sake route, Ta-Nehisi...
There was a rock star that once said "Nobody's the next anything." It's true. It's intellectual laziness to refuse to really see what's in front of you, and describe it in new words. Hacks choose to rely on reductivist snips and simplistic comparisons.
Of course, it's fair game to draw comparisons between quotes, or strategies, or even style. But Obama's not the next Kennedy. He's Obama.
There was a rock star that once said "Nobody's the next anything." It's true. It's intellectual laziness to refuse to really see what's in front of you, and describe it in new words. Hacks choose to rely on reductivist snips and simplistic comparisons.
Doesn't the book jacket say that "Ta-Nehisi Coates is the young James Joyce of the hip-hop generation"?
Bobby's problem was the message. The messenger didn't help but Santa Claus couldn't have made the same old GOP sludge appealing. You've got to wonder about Teh Bobby's political instincts in the first place if he's dumb enough to accept the job of following Obama. Brave or stupid?
TNC, I basically agree with you in your argument with Megan, but I am not quite convinced that Jindal's poor performance shows that he isn't the next Obama. Had he done an excellent job, would it have confirmed that he is the next Obama?
Jindal is not the next Obama, no matter what. Isn't that your --in my opinion, correct-- position?
peep: but it's true, he put the Dub back in Dubliners.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
But Harold Miner really is the next Jordan.
Jindal is to Obama, what Palin was to Clinton...
I don't think that anyone should expect Jindal to necessarily be as successful as Obama, but I don't think the comparison is that crazy. I took it just to mean that he is a young, rising star in the Republican party who is able to connect with people. He's a young guy with a great education who's had a lot of success at a young age. But that's where the comparisons should stop. And after last night, people probably are a bit embarrassed they ever made them.
If any volcanoes erupt in the next three years Jindal will look like a damn fool.
If any volcanoes erupt in the next three years Jindal will look like a damn fool.
On the other hand, if there are no volcano eruptions in the next 3 years will Jindal seem like a wise prophet?
No, it's not like that. He looks like a damn fool now.
Oh, a volcano IS about to erupt. And I heard Palin can see it from her backyard!!
http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/01/29/alaska.volcano/
Bobby blew it.
He's not even the next Bobby Jindal anymore. I have never felt so much embarrasment for someone before in my life. He's over. The Republican party in it's current incarnation is finished.
Sorry but the bench just ain't that deep.
TNC r teh pwnz mcardlez.
Ross Douthat, the Palin/Jindal fanboy extraordinaire! I mean, wasn't GNP touting Jindalin as like the prototypical leaders of the new republican party? Ouch!
Although Ross has a nice post up today about how lame Jindal is.
The problem with Jindal and Palin is they have no patience. The one thing I learned about being a trader is that you have to be both a person of patience and person of action.
I thought both jumped the gun, Palin with McCain and Jindal overplaying his stimulus hand. That's the beauty with Obama that guy is an opportunist and as such only increase chances for success while decreasing his risk. He's brilliant.
k1
ryanculver.blogspot.com
Louisiana native and resident here to tell you that Bobby (Piyush) is no national candidate. Unless the Republican Party is determined to run a brown person in 2012, Piyush has no shot. He has no national profile to speak of. His resume here in the state is anemic at best. People complained that Obama was a celebrity who was wet behind the ears. If that was the knock on Barack, can you imagine how the cable news will react to Piyush?
His claim to fame is healthcare reform, but he's fallen short of the goal consistently. He used to be the secretary for HHS in LA, and his tenure was noteworthy only for the fact that the LSU assumed control over the state's Charity Hospital system. Now, LSU is obstructing the rebuilding of Charity in New Orleans with Bobby on their side.
Bobby = republican weaksauce
They should rename the Microsoft Zune the Jindal.
Gramsci wins teh post.
Jindal is a damn fool. There has almost certainly never been a single instant in the 4.5 billions years since earth formed when a volcano wasn't erupting somewhere. There are more than a dozen volcanoes that have been erupting continuously for Jindal's entire lifetime and Mt. Etna's been erupting since 1500BC.
Of all the incredibly stupid things said by a Republican lately his bits about Katrina and the complaining about spending on volcano monitoring take the cake. How is it even possible that nobody involved realized how stupid the governor of f***ing Louisiana would look complaining about government spending on natural disaster prevention?
They should rename the Microsoft Zune the Jindal.
Ding!Ding!Ding!!!!!
We have a winner!!
I have never felt so much embarrasment for someone before in my life. He's over.
Don't be so quick to dismiss him. 2011 is a long way away, and 2015 even longer should Obama look unbeatable in 2012. Nixon made a comeback from far worse, as did Reagan. Jindal believes some pretty ludicrous things, but that doesn't mean he can't win elections. I think Bush proved that one.
I made similar points a few weeks ago:
http://kylopod.blogspot.com/2009/01/failure-of-imagination.html
The problem with Jindal and Palin is they have no patience.
You are so correct on this. The thing with Obama is that he's a "I don't eat my rice while it's hot type of person" as a Caribbean friend of mine explained to me once. The phrase means that I don't have to respond to, or get you now after you've attacked me, but I will later, after you've forgotten you even attacked me before. He is a big picture type of person. He lets everyone say what they want to say and basically uses the information he has culled from you against you. He must have been a very formidable lawyer. And that was the beauty of the stimulus fight. He let the Repubs talk and talk and talk about fiscal responsibility and the dangers of big government--the first they failed at, the second they ushered in--thus appearing as rank hypocrites and then last night pops out with an executive who willfully and silently shared $60 million of his money with his employees and a young woman in a SC school who wrote to him and her senators and Congresspeople about fixing her crumbling 100 yr old school, which was an OBVIOUS dig at his SC critics Lesley Graham and Gov Sanford. Obama reminds me of the only boxing match I ever saw all the way through. This Hispanic guy was the champ and the challenger was beating him mercilessly and everyone was basically saying "Oh my God, the champ is going to lose, he isn't getting in much punches. Then all of a sudden in the 8th round the Hispanic guy wallops the challenger 2 times and wins the fight by knockout. I was speechless at this guy's win b/c he really was getting bloody. Obama lets you hit him and wear yourself out--he'll even take a couple of bruises and then he punches you at the end and you're surprised he won.
Another blog called Obama's approach Ghandian hardball. You have to be patient to do make that your political strategy b/c you basically learn all the enemies' moves and strategies that way so as to better neutralize them, while they really get to know nothing about you. And unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your view of the Republican Party, their vanguard don't seem to be capable of watching and waiting and thinking so as to formulate strategy.
"But Harold Miner really is the next Jordan."
If this is true, does that make Steve Smith the next Jordan or the next Minor?
The three people that enjoyed Jindal's speech the most were Huckabee, Palin, and Romney.
Republicans think they've won the day if Rush agrees with them or if Hannity is cheering them on.
Obama knows that he's won after the votes are cast.
Also, what would happen if you gave Jindal a Kindle?
KevDog-
The Kindle is pretty sweet, I saw Bezos on CNBC the other day and while it won't be the next iPod, I must admit it is the logical evolution of print media.
I'll do the same thing I did with the iPod wait for color and a few more upgrades and a price reduction and then I'll grab one.
Nuada, et al-
I'm with you. I never liked that "next Jordan" thing because it was always being applied to guys who obviously weren't. Miner, Smith, Carter, Stackhouse. It was pretty clear even at their highs that they lacked the confluence of skills that made Jordan Jordan. Surprisingly, I don't remember Kobe or Lebron getting that lable much and those two from a competitive, skill level, confidence, collectedness, leadership and talent level most rival Jordan.
k1
ryanculver.blogspto.com
There was a rock star that once said "Nobody's the next anything." It's true. It's intellectual laziness to refuse to really see what's in front of you, and describe it in new words.
Whatever. Harold Minor is so the next Michael Jordan.
I think Jindal is going to be there in 2012. Underestimate him at your peril. his problem is not style , which was OK. His speech was pretty much reheated Reaganism,which simply won't do now. Everyone (even conservative economists) understand that the government has to do SOMETHING now, or else we'll see Great Depression, take 2.
He has three years to retool the content, and polish up the style, and he is smart enough to do it. Three years from now, everyone will have forgotten this speech.
On the Minor comment above^ - Sorry, for repeating Curtis. Apparently I need to read all of the comments before posting. I hate when that happens! OK, I'll try again.
If any volcanoes erupt in the next three years Jindal will look like a damn fool.
Or it will all be Obama's fault. I do believe that W kept us volcano eruption-free for the last eaight years. Eat it libruls!
Actually, Howard Dean was "the dude who reinvented campaign fundraising, who pioneered the use of social networking …"
The Obama campaigned simply perfected those two campaign tools in a far more favorable political environment (basically after the country had turned against the Iraq War, not before that had happened).
It really annoys me that the Obama campaign gets credit for pioneering two things that were actually pioneered by Dean just four years earlier.
Surly, it is all good. The joke was funny enough to be made twice.
As for the volcano issue, Jindal is enough of a dorky wonk to know that there is a volcano about to blow in Alaska. So his plan is to try to shut down the monitoring now and hope for a Mt. St. Helens style eruption to destroy much of the state, thereby making Palin and Obama look bad, greasing the skids for his triumphant campaign in 2012.
Because if there is one thing we know about Republicans, it is that they do not put the welfare of millions of citizens ahead of their quest for power.
I agree Jindal's main problem was reheated Reaganism (if the GOP gets in an emotional struggle over who can truly lay claim to the Reagan mantle, they may find--as they did with Ayers--that there's a big flop awaiting, a disconnect with younger voters).
I do not agree that his style was ok. He reminded me totally of Al Gore droning on and on about lockboxes. If you're potentially facing a Democrat Reagan, you dont wanna counter with a Republican Gore--esp since like Gore, he may not do well in the South regardless of his conservative bonafides. The South (Florida and VA aside) was not yet ready to elect a Black man with huge AA turnout, what makes them think Jindal is gonna get a pass in three years?
Nothing at all against Dean, but that's because Obama successfully pioneered them. I don't think anyone shorts Dean on credit for vision, but Obama deserves the credit for the very difficult accomplishment of pulling them off successfully.
The Wright brothers sure weren't the first dudes to try building an airplane, but they deserve the lion's share of the credit for being the first to build one that worked.
50 plus 1 ended at least partly b/c the greatest economic crisis a generation has ever seen struck in the middle of the general election, dooming the incumbent party.
Yes, Obama/Axelrod/Plouffe transformed politics (or at least harnessed the internet), but credit where credit is due: circumstances were highly favorable. The real battle, the primaries, Obama barely eeked out. And that was truly 50 plus 1, a very new phenomenon for the primaries.
SeanH
How was Dean not successful, all things considered? He started the race in 2004 an unknown, former governor of the second smallest state in the union. He was supposed to be what Bill Richardson was in 2008, someone who got in the debates, got a little recognition, and got about 5% in a couple of primaries before dropping out as Gephardt and Kerry ran in the real contest.
Instead his run for the nomination and subsequent win as DNC Chair began the the ascent of the Democratic Party from minority to majority status.
And no, the Wright brothers were not the only pioneers of aviation (and may not even have been the first to get off the ground, but that's another historical debate).