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Battlestar Blogging: Endgame
23 Feb 2009 08:00 am
I can't keep going guys. I'm sorry. I did the best I could. I know the show has a lot of fans here. There isn't much point in ripping the show, and disrespecting you guys and what you love. I simply didn't find the story compelling enough to continue.
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The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
what was the final nail in the coffin?
I'm right there with you Ta-Nehisi... I watched the first season, and never got into it. I also have no desire to rip it... it just didn't do anything for me. I'm also in the minority of people who finds nothing compelling about Joss Whedon's work, so maybe I need to turn in my nerd badge.
No! I'm sad to hear it, but I understand. I often say I got introduced to the show in the best way because I slept through or missed two-thirds of season one and two. This left me having followed the story just enough to become obsessed in season three. I am now a nearly rabid fan, but it took a long time for the show to find its pace and I wouldn't want to go back and trudge through the first two seasons either. Maybe you should've tried watching every other episode until it got interesting.
I don't think any apology is necessary. I've said before that, despite how I feel about the show, if it wasn't your cup of tea there was no point in wasting your time with it. Life's too short.
I also don't agree that there is no point in "ripping" the show. I think its interesting to hear a critic's perspective and it generally sparks discussion that reveals a lot about the different ways that people consume culture. Reading all the discussion on the various opinions of Slumdog Millionaire for instance, has been pretty enlightening and I haven't even seen that movie.
Now you have time for The Venture Brothers. Good for you.
I don't know how I feel about this. I'm ok with you not liking the show, but the apology makes it sound like you couldn't even WATCH TV for us.
I almost feel like I should be slighted, but I can't quite conjure up the energy to do so.
In each post on this show, commenters have given you reassurances and strategies for how to get through until you finally got into the show, which is interesting.
I feel like life is too short to wait for the good stuff when it comes to television. It's not worth it, although slogging through the exposition of a great game or a slow chapter of a great book definitely are.
P.S. Venture Brothers YES
That’s okay. I’ve never seen the show as being flawless. I think you and I see different flaws: while the actress playing Sharon/Boomer grew as an actress as the show went on, I found her performance nearly unbearable for the first couple of seasons, so her arc took a while to work for me—even if I liked Helo; oh and the fact that so many of the actors are Canadian—yuck—takes me out of it all of the time. ; )
Anyway, I’ve been sort of a frustrated fan of the show because there are moments where I think it works better than most anything on commercial television, but there’s a fair amount of filler in between those moments. It’s the same way with Lost. In the end, I totally understand why the show doesn’t work for some folks. It’s not like it’s Mad Men.
Let's also point out that, with the exception of very long books, TV probably requires more time than most media to 'get to the good stuff.'
And dude, yes. Watch the Venture Brothers, if you haven't already. Then we can clutter up your comments section with dumb jokes about absorbed twins and Blackula references.
Coates is it really that bad? I took the challenge on your strength and kinda liked it. Hopefully our views diverge on Season 2.
k1
ryanculver.blogspot.com
No problem. There's nothing to be done if that is how you feel.
Please return your *Geek Card* in the attached self-addressed stamped envelope.
Regards,
-The Geek Community.
I'm with you. The Baltar/cylon in my head subplot drove me crazy. I gave up early in Season 2.
Weeds. solid family entertainment
Btw, I wonder if there's a split in interest among people who watch the show weekly on tv vs people who watch a whole season in a few weeks via DVD. I think compressed viewing can affect how people look at a whole show. Maybe the Baltar/Cylon in the head thing is less annoying in small weekly doses.
There's no need for an apology. If you don't like it, you don't like it. Screw majority opinion. And more than one season is way more than enough. I only gave The Wire one season.
And that's fine. I could never get into Six Feet Under, which I'm assured was brilliant. But you have to like something both after the first couple of episodes, and after a season. (I almost gave up on Lost in S3 and would have had I not known we would go from the nadir of Jack's tattoos to Hurley, Sayid, and Claire. And now it's good again. But you don't need to keep watching if it's not gripping you.)
That said, I shall always defend Gaius and Chip Six as one of the funniest things ever. Especially when Chip Gaius shows up and Gaius demands to know if he's Chip Six in disguise. (I assume we may now spoil with impunity, tell you the final five, share our theories about just what a Chip Gaius is, and you'll skip over that part of the comments?)
@ Alex: Hee.
Aww. Well thanks for trying. I'm glad you did like Helo as he's one of my favorites. In DnD terms he manages to be lawful good without being lawful stupid.
I'm actually running a little behind on Venture Borthers, but I would also recommend it. One caveat, I think the pilot show is quite skippable. The first episode on the DVDs works fine as a starting point.
I have to say I'm disappointed. I really was looking forward to the discussion between you and the fans here about the nature of bigotry, subjugation, love, betrayal, what distinguishes humanity and do we deserve to be masters of the realm. In solidarity, and because I apparently have absolutely no life, this past week, I watched Season 1, 2 and am halfway through Season 3 and the stuff there has me pausing, backing up, watching again, stopping and thinking.
Sharon and Helo were particularly compelling for me and not just because it fulfilled all my girly fantasy romance mind movies (yeah, you got something to say about it?), but in one episode he told Sharon the machine "You were a person before Caprica, you don't have to prove it" and she says "I have to prove it every day." I know what that feels like and it got me. Plus Helo's mind-bendingly hot. But I digress.
Ah well. I would say "C'mon...Watch for us, TNC," but I'm sure you would retort "Three words. Watch. For. Yourself."
Hmmm...I'm trying to decide if this gives me the push I need to admit the same is true of me. Like you I found it a hard slog to start. I then did get into it for a while, but petered out before I got to the third season. I've been swearing I'd get back to it, but haven't actually made a serious move to do so. Maybe I should take that as a hint and just let people tell me what happens.
I'm sorry that you didn't like it, but I'm glad that you didn't try to force your way to the end.
We live in a wide world with lots of different tastes and that includes the kingdom of geekdom.
I hope that you'll get more out of Watchmen.
Yep, I watched through Season one and have never even brought myself to watch Season Two, which I have in my house. So it can't be all that compelling.
It's ok, just frees up more time for Flight of the Conchords (much cooler).
Oh, and re-watching back seasons while knowing what was to come was a trip.
Also, the blind hatred angle always affected me. Cylons are eeeevil, they tried to wipe out humanity, they all deserve to die... It was interesting because once I discovered Boomer was a Cylon, that changed. It made me think of my guilty pleasure Starship Troopers where the eeeevil bugs were trying to wipe out humanity. Both the bugs and the Cylon were trying to achieve the same thing, but because the Cylon looked human and the bugs were (ugh) bugs, I could cut the Cylon a break. The bugs? Kill 'em. Kill 'em all.
Deborah, I concur. Baltar alone, Baltar/Six or Baltar/anyone else is frakkin' hilarious. His self-regard is stupefying. Hybrid: "Intelligence. Burning access genius." Baltar: "I'm here." or something like that.
Don't feel bad--I disagree with the people who say that BSG took time to get into. I think that if the show didn't grab you in the first couple of episodes, it wasn't going to, simple as that. For the life of me, I can't understand why some BSG fans loved seasons 3 and the beginning of 4, but some obviously did.
But if you want to give it an old school try sometime, there's always the chance that the original could be resurrected.
Honestly TNC, I had given up on the show too, at the end of the 3rd season. But then my brother ended up getting into the show, so I started watching Season 4 with him. The first half of four is just as aimless as the third season, and I almost didn't come back for the last half-season that's currently airing.
The last four episodes to air have been some of the best that Battlestar has to offer. "The Oath" stands with any of the best episodes in Season 1. It's not unsurprising that the writers have stepped their game up with a firm end in sight, but it's also likely that this is a case of too little, too late. So I'm not telling you to plow through in the hopes of some awesome payoff at the end. Just that the last 4 episodes have contained some of the most compelling and entertaining drama and action I've ever seen on TV.
Screw majority opinion.
Indeed. That's why I don't watch American Idol.
Okay, there are other reasons why I don't watch American Idol. But what majority are we talking about here? The majority of Sci-Fi channel watchers? The majority of the geek community? I like the show, and at one point, thought it was the best show on tv not named The Wire (which means we obviously have opposite tastes--no biggie), but in tv terms, there are probably more people who don't know the show exists than who watch it.
@HIcks: Maybe it's that I'm a science geek, married to and friends with same, but Baltar's role as some sort of uber-human, the greatest brilliance married to the greatest self-regard, his automatic "not my fault!" reaction to everything that was his fault, which is very human....I kept finding myself in little "What does it mean that Gaius Baltar represents me? Gaius Baltar!" fugues.
And then season 4.0 that became explicit, with Chip Elosha pointing out to Laura that you can't justify saving humanity using only your favorite exemplars--if humanity is worth saving, it has to include Gaius and Caine and Callie and the other very human humans.
Laura and Gaius attempting to negotiate with the hybrid was The. Funniest. Thing. Ever. And so very human, trying to get their heads around something not human.
I love Battlestar, but I get why people wouldn't keep watching. I was like that with Heroes, falling in and out of love with it during the first season, being one of the few who actually enjoyed the second and now am completely tuned out. Same thing almost happened with me and Lost during season 3 (I am not alone).
Ahh well.
Personally I hate 2 & ½ Men; but supposedly 99% of the Amrican audience loves that dreck.
To each his own…
Once you said how much Six was bothering you I was on a death watch for this post. Sure she was blah... but I didn't find her actually irritating. Knew it was just a matter of time.
But there is still Mad Men.
"But what majority are we talking about here? The majority of Sci-Fi channel watchers? The majority of the geek community? I like the show, and at one point, thought it was the best show on tv not named The Wire (which means we obviously have opposite tastes--no biggie), but in tv terms, there are probably more people who don't know the show exists than who watch it." - Incertus
The majority of people who are willing to give purportedly intelligent television at least one season before coming to their own conclusions? Point taken, though.
Oddly, I really like BSG partly for dealing with Big Philosophical Questions, but when I watched The Wire I felt like I was in a sociology lecture by a particularly partisan lecturer. I think there's something alienating about sci-fi as a genre that allows that sort of issues-based abstraction, whereas I was much less forgiving of The Wire.
The Shield, on the other hand, was a true masterpiece.
Word. If it weren't for the wife I'd have tuned out on both BSG and Lost quite a while ago. Personally, I kind of like them, but I'm also glad the two of them are nearly over.
In a month and a half The Tudors will be back on and along with the two sci-fi shows I have Life to watch in the meantime so I'm pretty happy with the quality of TV lately.
BSG can be a tough show to love. There's tons of stuff that I find almost unbearable (most of the Baltar stuff, Sharon, etc).
But at the same time, it has some absolutely brilliant stuff. Adama and the President. Starbuck and Apollo. Hell, just how Apollo has changed throughout the series.
And the Battlestar's freefall into the atmosphere, jumping away before it hit the ground, stands as one of the all-time-great sci-fi moments.
Too bad... but I understand..
Personally.. I find it especially dangerous to start watching shows where everyone else has said "this is SO TOTALLY AWESOME, YOU'LL LOVE IT!".. because often, I don't then..
Reverse expectations problem.. perhaps.. which is why I'm kinda leery of netflixing The Wire.. which all have assured me is super duper awesome..
Well.. maybe I'll do it anyway.. and then I can see.. (not that I have all that much time to watch anything right now..)
BSG opened great. A great first act: The first season or so was great for the tone of doom and catastrophe and desperation. Very well done. It was always best when Starbuck and Bill Adama --the best actors with the best parts-- were front and center. All the "mythology" stuff always seemed half-baked in the mode of X-FILES. Yeah I couldn't stand Gaius or the platinum Six: characters for the 13-year old boy demographic. The episodes with the badass female Admiral were terrific though. The "political" stuff was always heavy-handed, even while provocative. When I rewatched the entirety of THE WIRE recently, I realized these shows were on entirely different levels in terms of acting, writing, and social content.
"Man, I only hunt black vampires, I don't know what the PC term for that is." -Jefferson Twilight, The Venture Bros. (see under 'Crippling Overspecialization')
Agreed with the Venture Bros. But honestly, you should probably check out Frisky Dingo first.
I love Baltar, if only in the love-to-hate sense. And I hate the cylon-in-the-head stuff, in a hate-to-hate sense. It could have been good, but it drags.
It's one of my favorite shows overall, but only when I am in certain moods. When I'm in those moods, I get a stack of disks from Netflix and watch them straight through. The rest of the time, I can't imagine doing that.
There are books like that too. Whether they sit right or not depends on what else is happening in life.
Pffftttt! As the Official Spokesperson for Federation of Sci-Fi,I hearby revoke your Sci-Fi Nerd Credentials. Of course you remain a member in good standing with full privileges in the Nerdom of Fantasy and Magic. And your special Comic Book Expertise pip for Sci-Fi remains in effect (not sure how that works with the badge revoked but I only speak for the powers, I dont have to understand)
Now you can watch Firefly!!! You can watch the whole thing in a few nights. Its even on hulu.com.
http://www.hulu.com/firefly?c=Science-Fiction
Scott
Where did you get to?
There are science fiction authors and editors who don't like the show. Granted that's a different world than "Sci-Fi", but I think there's Sci-Fiers who dislike it too.
I'm in a weird place on it, weirder than any other show before. That being I'm fascinated by it, and will watch it to the end, but I don't exactly like it. I don't really find any of the human characters likeable and a good chunk of the Cylons are also unlikeable. For me I have to have a character to "root for" if I'm going to like a show.
The only experience like this I've had is the movie "The Great White Hype." I hated all the characters, to varying degrees, but found the movie kind of fun. Although it's not a movie I'm very interested in seeing again.
My opinion is dragged down by the fact I could never get into Mad Men or The Wire and obviously by my weird political views.
Well at least you got to find out that you have bad taste. That's probably useful knowledge.
I'm glad to find out that I'm not the only nerd who found BSG non-compelling. Ultimately, I found the central "what does it mean to be human" theme uninteresting, simply because the novels of Greg Egan (specifically Diaspora) had already blown my head wide apart on that score.
And regarding Venture Bros. - Yes, yes, a thousand times yes!
I'm a Sci-Fi fan who never liked BSG. Too ponderous, too heavy, too self-serious and congratulatory, and with some very skeevy race and gender issues. Then again, I was raised on TOS and classic British Sci-Fi (Old Who, Blake's 7, Sapphire and Steel, etc), so I'm constitutionally unable to tolerate SF shows that aren't a bit camp.
Anyways, no need to take back the membership card from TNC just because he doesn't like a single (overrated) show.
For me, as a fifty year SF fan ,(still can bring my self to accept "Sci Fi"), it worked as drama but not as SF. The heart of the SF writer is "What if...." and the requirement of the reader is suspension of disbelief. To follow most SF you have to know enough science to take the speed of light as a limit and the writer has to help you say "ok, now that we are past light speed ..." BSG did good characterizations but little to aid me in accepting their wide "What if..."
At least watch until the atmospheric raptor launch. It's way more epic than the trench run in Star Wars.
Well if you're done with BSG, any chance you want to tell us what you think of Terminator: the Sarah Connor Chronicles?
My main issue with it is that has few, if any, likeable characters. (Pretty much the same problem BSG has, actually. Though I do like Helo and Athena, aka the only functional couple in the show.)
On the other hand, I find Agent Ellison fascinating, along with Cameron. And the show's had a number of very strong non-white supporting characters. (Ellison's still a supporting character, though I'd rather watch him than John Connor any day of the week.)