Exactly--and that is what is so scary.

I don't know. Sean Hannity is about as sick and delusional as they come, and this crazier than anything I've heard him mutter. And who cares if it is similar to what others has said? Like TNC said, Keyes is held up as some sort of intellectual on the right. He's clearly just as crazy as the rest of them.

Nope, Keyes is really a full functioning raving lunatic. The only thing that separates him from the rambling guy on the street corner with the megaphone is... well, nothing. They're both crazy!

Remember, this is a guy who disowned his teenage daughter when she told him she was gay. Straight kicked her out of the house! Even Dick Cheney didn't do that. Now that's something when you can make Cheney look reasonable.

I had a coworker who fancied himself a conservative intellectual who absolutely considered Keyes a leading light and maybe one of the most sound politicians in the GOP. This was several years ago so it's possible he's wised up, but I can tell you he has had serious admirers over the years.

"One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane."

Alan Keyes' rhetorical abilities are on display here, as others have noted, and I'm not saying that he's necessarily crazy, but his premises are deeply paranoid, overly paranoid. Even his stance on the irresponsibility of the government bailouts, the most reasonable point he makes in this clip, is only effective rhetorically and doesn't hold up under inspection ("it WILL fail and we WILL collapse"), and is inconsistent with his past silence on the GOP-led government profligacy - even though they're of the same party, how could he tolerate statements of intent like "deficits don't matter" from those in power like Dick Cheney?

I don't even need to address his credulity on crackpot "born in Kenya" theories or the idea that thousands of American soldiers are clamoring to commit treason based upon it. This guy just gets caught up in his own outrage; outrage for its own sake and an argumentation feedback loop. And when you begin with demonstrably false premises, you get what we in engineering call garbage-in, garbage-out. Luckily for us although tragic for one so clearly bright as Keyes, no one takes him seriously anymore.

If the right wing would cut the hyperbole and begin by acknowledging its own dereliction over the past decade or four (fiscal and otherwise) with respect to its own stated principles, we could begin to have a conversation about where we want our government and our country to go from here, on what progress is going to look like. I had hoped this would happen in the center-stage Obama-McCain race, but I was sorely disappointed. When Ron Paul is the only voice of reason in the Republican Party, that party is in decline and there's no serious opposition in America. I'm partial to Paul's philosophies, but even to Liberals, this situation - little serious political or even intellectual opposition, hence little serious public discussion - cannot sit well if it persists over the long run. Serious public discourse can't ALL come out of President Obama, thoughtful as the man obviously is.

Family values?
From him?

The man who disowned his daughter for being a lesbian. Not even The Evil One did that.

But, what can you expect from a BLACK man that DEFENDED apartheid in South Africa.

Straight up, without a doubt Sambo.

And he got the vote of 27% of the Illinois electorate in 2004. Sure, a lot of them were probably "anyone with an 'R'" voters. But that crazy man got 1 out of every 4 voters.

I know it's nitpicking, but Keyes has never been elected to any office. He worked in the Reagan State Department, but he hasn't even been elected dogcatcher. For the last 20 years he's basically been a professional candidate.

No one takes him seriously but I hope the media continues to make him out to be some sort of symbol for the right wing. That party is doomed and anything that speeds up their demise is fine by me.

I don't pay any attention to this guy because lunatics make me itch. But I did google the story about his daughter and it makes me sick to my stomach that he (and his equally deranged wife) could treat her like that. No info yet on where she is now or how sane folks can reach out to her.

Do you think that Mr. Baldwin, who serves on the board of People For the American Way, is a goon?

Yes, the comments you attribute to Alec Baldwin are pretty horrible and I won't say what I think of People for the American way on a public blog. Because we don't even need to go there.

Just because a liberal says some stupid crap doesn't mean that Keyes'lunatic rantings are okay. No one is saying that liberals never make ignorant comments. That's not the point here. The post is about Alan Keyes. Period.

Is this really the right lesson, though? I would have thought that the conclusion is that spoken and written verbal acuity are different things, and excelling in one medium doesn't actually predict success in the other.

(None of which has anything to do with Keyes, who I don't care about.)

There are demented assholes of both the left and the right.

Turn Alan inside out and add some weight and you have Michael Moore.

Convinced that only they are "right".

Convinced in conspiracies.

Mostly just assholes.

The ability to speak "well" does not mean one has the ability to form legitimate opinions.

Sanity has been defined as the ability to hold two conflicting opinions at the same time.

Life is full of questions and nuance.

To assholes like Keyes life is full only of answers and he has those answers.

Now can't we just get a post out of our beloved and conflicted TNC about Congressman Jackson and snitching. I really want to see Rikyrah post some comments on that.

http://www.southtownstar.com/news/mcqueary/1441655,022209mcqueary.article

Is pairing a several times Republican Senate nominee with the guy from 30 rock your best tactic?

Very poor.

I don't know about Keyes' points, but not a single MSM reporter is willing to tell the truth about what we actually know about where BHO was born. See this fact-based discussion with what you've been told about the issue by every MSM reporter who discusses it. Every single MSM reporter who's discussed this takes a blatantly false statements from FactCheck on faith, despite it taking about five minutes at the most to see that FactCheck is lying.

Based on virtually every other post of yours, esp on Yglesias's blog.

It was very nice recently when you questioned his Latin origin. Because he was Jewish probably. Oh, how I laughed.

He stopped by our table and introduced himself, whereupon we explained to him that we both lived in Virginia and could not vote for him. And anyway we didn't vote in Republican primaries. It was a perfectly pleasant exchange on both sides. The weird thing was that, completely ignoring what we told him, he hung around for five or so minutes talking non-stop about why he should be elected. He was a wound-up motor mouth, just like in this video, but not as crazy. Upon finishing, he wished us a good day and moved along to another table. We wondered whether he just didn't listen or had a hearing problem. Of course, I've since learned that he has a brain problem.

I cannot laugh, however, at the things he said in the video. It frightens me when he says that President Obama must be "stopped" or else America will be destroyed. I don't suppose Keyes himself is so delusional that he would try anything, but there are too many yahoos out there who agree with him and own lots of guns. We can hope that
they're as inept as assassins as Alan Keys is as a candidate.

The reason Alan Keyes and others who claim Obama isn't a citizen don't have any credibility is that, although some of the things they say have some validity, every one of them I've seen (including your link) quickly slide off into ridiculously erroneous premises. No amount of arguing from those premises will make the conclusions valid. For example, Keyes says that Obama's mother was too young to transfer citizenship when he was born. When presented with nonsensical rambling like that, why should I dig further? It's clear that nothing- *nothing* will cause him to change his mind. And that's what makes him an insane, narrowly focussed, ineffectual thug. He doesn't allow evidence (that is, reality) to intrude.

He's just stringing some Ivy-level multisyllabic words together, echoing the same GOP talking points and sandwiched them around the same sort of garbage that the "American militia movement" was spewing in the mid-90s.

Keyes is really an "Angry White Male" in blackface. Problem is, his status as a professional candidate or some Republican pundit sort of gives him some legitimacy in the Village. Otherwise, why would the LA Times bother turning the camera on him?

I say that we start to treat him like that crazy guy on the corner with a megaphone. From this point forward, it's really hard to take what he says seriously after this. Assuming we ever did take him seriously.

Spot on. This reminds me of that KRS-One post and his ranting, rambling mess. At times there are moments of lucidity( I agree about all the bailouts) but its surrounded by such utter craziness you feel like your eyes are crossing listening to the guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZxiVnuFFoI

gay marriage => incest.

No sh*t! Check out from 4:50 through the end. At 7:18, Obama looks like he is about to laugh his a$$ off. I have no idea who Obama kept a straight face through all this. I know I would have said "N*gga, please" at some point!

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/02/first-keyes-now.html

But you're wrong...he doesn't sound like my dear Kermit--more like Marvin the Martian!!

OMG...best laugh of the day...!!

Alan Keyes haiku: goon,
goonie, or bull goose loony,
y'all make the call.

The last few minutes of that debate beween Keyes and Obama are priceless, solely because of the Help. Me. JESUS! look on Obama's face.

We now know why he stayed so calm when debating McCain. Its because he had already had to sit across the table from true crazy. McCain's grumpiness doesn't even hold a candle.

Oh, don't throw logic into the mix, it will confuse the children.

Us: "Cheney said A, DeLay said B, Frist said C."
Them: "But Clooney said X, Baldwin said Y and Penn said Z!"

Granted, using actual human beings, albeit those with no elected or appointed political power, is a step up from the good old days of pointing to fictional characters (cf. Murphy Brown).

In short, this motivation does not seem plausible to me.

Snitch..snitch...snitch...

Amen.

Though these are the same people who accused Bill Clinton of complicity in the murder of teenagers in Mena, Arkansas. Accusing Obama of forging his birth certificate is flat-out dainty by comparison. They must really like him!

I would say Keyes is bonkers but really he's just responding to stimulus. He says something normal and nobody cares. He says something crazy and he gets on TV. It turns out he's always been a troll; we just didn't know what to call him before the Internet.

I just wanted to get a post on here about JJJ because I know you sorta secretly desire to be Mrs Senator JJJ.

I'll continue to tell you this...I'm not that kind of gal. JJJ is a married man WITH children...and rikyrah doesn't roll like that.

Here, let me try the short course.

1. Keep this law in your mind:

peekURL.com/zxldm5a

2. Then, take a look at the 10/31 statement:

hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf

3. Then, note this claim (factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html)

The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.

If you're intellectually honest, you should immediately note the problem. If you don't, go back to step 1 and repeat until you see the problem.

Laura Bush killed a guy. Right, I forgot. Laura Bush killed a guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whpbRR7Dzms

Actually, being born abroad to an American citizen is enough to be president too. The constitution says that the president must be a "natural born citizen"; it doesn't say that he must be born in the United States. I think any reasonable interpretation of "natural born citizen" would understand it to mean "born with citizenship", that the citizenship was acquired automatically at birth. The distinction is between "natural born citizen" and a naturalized citizen, someone who applied for and acquired his citizenshp.

As I understand citizenship law, citizenship is automatic if I child is born to two US citizens abroad (and the child woudl then be considered a "natural born citizen," as he automatically acquired citizenship at birth and was never naturalized). If only one parent is an American citizen--as in Obama's case--and the child is born abroad, then citizenship is automatic as long as the American parent has lived in the U.S. for at least 14 years. (I live abroad and the consulate here told me to bring high school and college transcripts as proof of this to transfer citizenship to my children, as my partner is not a US citizen).

So, even if Obama were born abroad, which he clearly and definitely was not, he'd have automatic citizenshp and be a "natural born citizen," satisfying the constitution's requirement. This whole controversy is not only about nothing, but even if this stupid conspiracy theory were true, it wouldn't change anything.

item one is an interesting law, but does not indicate anything other than 'what if'. You could form a similar character assassination by picking a random unsolved murder in Chicago in the '90s, and demanding Obama account for his whereabouts on the date of the murder.

I submit Obama's birth announcement, published in two local papers, as prima facie evidence that he was born in Hawaii. Therefore this law had nothing to do with his situation.

item two/three goes somewhere. There are three possibilities here as to what you might be getting at. The statement listed does not explicitly state "The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu" Yes, this is true. It says "have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures." The former can easily be inferred from the latter, as one can assume that veracity is a state policy and procedure. In other words, what is on this certificate is true. The 'record' is what is in accordance, not the 'has'.

The second is the June 2007 mark on the back, certifying the certificate as genuine. Yes, this is a year earlier than the Oct 2008 statement, but it is four months after Obama declared his candidacy, which gave wingnuts plenty of time to start delving into conspiracy theories, and trying to knock a contender off the roster. In response, a Hawaiian registrar verified and stamped the certificate as genuine. The fact that there was a second official action, the aforementioned Statement, a year later only indicates to me that the Director of Health was succumbing to the feeding of the trolls a second time.

The third possibility is that the statement prohibit persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record. But then they let FactCheck look at and handle the certificate. An exception was made for them? Perhaps because their mission statement declares "We are a nonpartisan, nonprofit "consumer advocate" for voters that aims to reduce the level of deception and confusion in U.S. politics." Again, an exception was made to placate the trolls, but no good deed goes unpunished.

Occam's Razor, my friend. Conspiracy theories can be woven around any circumstance, and anything is possible. The question is, what is probable? When did the coverup happen? Some of the theorizing I've read makes Obama's real birth in 1963. Which would put him into college at age 16. And on the Varsity Basketball Team at 14. In my original post, I asked what the motivation would have been for a doctoring of the certificate by his mom back in the 60's. This is the only plausible time that a forging of records would have taken place. He was already an American citizen, though not natural-born. So again, I need some sort of plausible story, with a thruline and character development and motivation.

Otherwise, the more likely story for me is that biased individuals are desperate to have an excuse to de-legitimize this man, for less than noble and objective purposes. That is also a point of intellectual honesty.

To everyone else, terribly sorry that I fed the trolls.

Again, I think that the standard interpretation of "natural born" (as distinct from naturalized) would mean that even if Obama had been born abroad, he would have been a natural-born citizen. This is why there is even less motivation for his mother to have forged anything---he'd already have been a citizen and a natural-born one--ie he was born automatically a citizen under citizenship law--rather than one who applied for citizenship and became a citizen.

This is why this particular conspiracy theory is so frustrating---even if the theorists were correct, he'd still be a natural born citizen and still be eligible.

Again, apologies. It was the call to 'intellectual honesty' that made me dignify the theory in the first place.

Abolition of slavery, WWII armistice could be at risk

[satire]

http://wineandexcrement.com/bombshell-lincoln-reagan-clinton-15-other-us-presidents-held-office-illegally/667/

Come on. This is straw man city. Show me some examples of that.

I don't know if that part of the conversation went on much longer. I've read the Audacity of Hope. The only other related thing that Obama has Bush saying is, "Boy, is he a piece of work or what"?

However, since most of the "he's not a natural born American" crazies are provincial simpletons who've never left North America, it makes sense they would have no idea about official travel documents, citizenship requirements and the like.

This made me choke coffee onto my keyboard.

He is the flipside of some ex-con philosophizing about Yacub and the Illuminati.

Dismissing Keys is not going to make the very large number of americans who think just like him including a significant number of Republican Senators and more Republican Representatives e.g Cornyn, Richard Shelby, etc lose their significance to influence election politics and outcomes.