Headed to Cali today guys to do some reporting. Posting will be light. Entertain yourselves. Jay Culter is a Bear. Chicago must be having a party right about now. I actually think he was worth the two first rounders.
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It's a huge gamble to be sure: Denver gets two first rounders and a member of the Doobie Brothers for quarterback, but if played right, Denver could make out big.
I don't know about that. He was the only thing going for them last season...the only thing that's remotely positive about the trade for denver is that they get 2 first round picks. I'm guessing they'll use one on a qb...
Bears fans like myself have spent a lifetime rationalizing and berating quarterbacks ranging from mediocre (The Kyle Ortons and Erik Kramers and Jim Millers) to truly horrible (anyone remember Cade McNown or Shane Matthews or P.T. Willis or Steve Stenstrom or Johnathon Quinn or...) Anyway, we are living in a strange state of ecstasy and confusion today.
It seems like everyone in the national media is throwing Cutler under the bus for being a crybaby, but if I remember right they were all praising him for his maturity and courage last year at this time when he announced he had played the whole 2007 season with untreated diabetes... Either way, these aren't my grandfather's bears anymore. The acquisition of Orlando Pace and Kevin Schaffer completely changes the look of the O-line. Here's hoping Cutler and an improved line can make Hester an actual NFL WR, rekindle the
Vanderbilt chemistry with Earl Bennett, and turn Matt Forte and Greg Olsen into pro bowlers. Chicago fans are full of high hopes in April...
im actually scared for the rest of the NFC now...i was hoping cutler would stay in the AFC, now he's looking like the best qb in the NFC for real. The Bears were a good QB from going to the playoffs last year, and i think cutler is the the thing that changes that team for real. I may be jumping the gun, but i think alot of teams were hoping to stack the line against the bears and bet on Orton to throw against them. It's going to be a very different ballgame going against the bears. Depending on how Denver draft, this may be the most lopsided trade in years. It may eventually cost McDaniels his job...
I like Cutler but I am not ready to say he is the best QB in the NFC just yet. He is going to need a few more weapons around him before that can be said.
all good...all hood...but forrreeelthough, Cutler was a beast last year. I would like him to have a few more weapons...i 'll give you brees...but cutler is on par with the rest of them...at least during the season...don't know what he's going to look like in the post-seasoon...
I'll give you Drew Brees and Matt Ryan (assuming he continues to go the direction he started in last year). I think Cutler's got far more upside potential than Eli Manning. And McNabb? Maybe a healthy McNabb four years ago. No matter what your take on McNabb is, he is well past his halfway point in his career. I'd be more willing to buy Kurt Warner in that argument than McNabb.
Cutler is absolutely the cream of the NFC north QBs. And I'm telling you, don't overlook Earl Bennett for this year's Bears. He's the SEC's all time leader in receptions, and he's Cutler's buddy.
I think you're overstating things by calling Cutler "the absolute cream of the NFC North QBs." Aaron Rodgers had better numbers than Cutler last year. It may have been a fluke one-year thing, but that's yet to be determined.
Speaking as a Giants fan, I agree about the rest of the NFC. The Giants D will be sick, but I'm worried about not having the luxury of a playmaking wideout in a playoff matchup (provided the G-Men take the division) vs. the Bears. As for the Broncos, this may be one of those step back seasons to set up a leap forward in two years. They could really build a defense with these picks and they may be able to afford taking a shot at Sanchez with the 12 this year, provided they go out and get a veteran (who's out there) who can hold down the fort for a year as Sanchez develops. I mean, you can't assume that McDaniels' has inherited that Patriots' personnel acumen, but I'd be willing to give him a couple years if I were a Broncos fan.
im sure he's gone to the belichick personnel handling school...problem is, he's now in denver and will have to deal with the denver front office...and they just fired one of their most winningest coaches of all time...for o a guy who's never been a head coach...now, i don't think he's gonna be fired this year...but if the draft goes wrong, and they don't make the playoffs...he's looking for a new job in 2 years.
Depending on how Denver draft, this may be the most lopsided trade in years. It may eventually cost McDaniels his job...
I bloody well hope so. I think if you're a 32 year-old coach who's never won a game, it might be wise to start your first season with a little humility, rather than trying to remake the entire team (the offense of which was young and very promising).
Sir are you british?? Btw excellent point on the humility, scary how much hubris one person can have... and might i add that they didn't need a new QB, they needed a rb?!!
Stacy, agreed...it was Belichick...but let's not compare apple's and oranges...Belichick has a very good argument for having that type of hubris....McDaniels not so much. Riding Belichicks coat-tails doesn't buy you much..specially not outside of NE...
This was a huge move for the Bears and I LOVE it. First the thing a lot of people aren't also noting is that the Bears also went out and picked up Orlando Pace who even after some injuries is a BEAST at left tackle. Now you have Forte coming back with a better line, Jay Cutler who can sling the rock with precision and TEs Olson and Clark along with WR Hester they have a solid foundation of a good offense. If they can get a free agent wideout or pick up a guy in the Second round since the wideout position is pretty deep in this draft they will be cooking with fish grease. I believe that their DLine Coach Marinelli is going to have Tommy Harris off the meat rack this year which will make their whole defense better. Right now I look for the Bears to win the NFC North should they pick up another reciever.
The Broncos got a pretty good deal with the draft picks but I think this move sets them back for at least 2 years. I don't see Chris Simms nor Kyle Orton is going to be their answer at QB and if LT comes back healthy there is no way they contend with the Chargers for the AFC west. Hell they might fuck around and end up behind the Raiders if JaMarcus Russell balls like he did at the end of last year. But the draft picks will help them change the face of their franchise. Now here is where there might be a problem though. For years people lauded their ex coach Shanahan for making wise moves in the draft and finding gems in the later rounds. Of course he made some recent mistakes when drafting DLinemen but still McDaniels is going to have to show that he knows how to pick players in the draft in order to get the Broncos back to elite status.
The Pace deal was great for the Bears, and it's hard to see how the big guy won't be fired up for this year. I think they need help at wideout, though, because while Hester's a gamebreaker, he's not a number one, or even a number two. How much money do they have under the cap? I wonder if Torry Holt would go play for them.
I was thinking Tory Holt too because of his connections to Lovie Smith but with his bad knees he might not want to play outside in a cold weather city. I wonder if anybody has picked up Amani Toomer though. He would be a decent pickup to me.
Yeah, I hate seeing him go, even if Big Blue still has Steve Smith. Toomer would fit in well with the Bears. Maybe both Holt and Toomer can be got. Or would that be investing too much in the short term, although I would think that the Bears are definitely in a win-now mode, with an investment on the future (Cutler, Forte).
In the spirit of poetic thread hijacking, I am proposing a poetry contest in the comments here, to be judged by our illustrious blogmaster. Contestants should enter either a limerick or a haiku, on one of the three following topics:
*Michael Steele
*The social value of urban environments
*The nature of human identity
My entry:
Asphalt 'neath my feet
my pace quickens with the minds
around me thriving
I honestly can't believe how much this story, what with baseball being a week away and NHL and NBA playoff races coming down to the wire, is dominating all sports TV and apparently chat. What the flip do I care about either of these teams outside of a decent late 80s Tecmo Bowl matchup?
well...that would be easily fixed if you ajusted the schedules...it doesn't actually say anything about the sport itself...i love me some march madness and the NBA playoffs in the spring, some soccer and some MMA/K1 all year long...but yeah, when the season starts in september...NFL is no 1.
Eli Manning's upside potential looks like Peyton Manning? Surely you jest. Eli Manning has not had one season where he's been one of the top five QB's in the league. Cutler's season last year was better than any season Eli has had yet. Eli's ceiling might be a bit higher than he's at right now. Good enough to be a starting QB, obviously, but his potential is not Peyton Manning.
I am not talking about potential because potential just means you haven't done it yet. I am talking about the skills they have today. I would take Donavan today for this season over Cutler all other things being equal hands down. The same with Brees or Manning. I will give you that I didn't put Warner on the list but I have worries about his age and being injury prone but skill wise he is above Cutler too. Now that doesn't mean that Cutler won't be better than them in the years to come. But it does remain to be seen if that will be so.
I don't know, Cutler's pretty good, but that's about it, IMO. He has yet to lead a team to the playoffs (playing for the same Broncos team that made regular playoff appearances under his predecessor, Jake Plummer), and his passer rating has been pretty much in the middle of the pack.
I think he is undoubtedly -- undoubtedly -- an upgrade for Chicago, but I don't think he belongs in the top tier of NFL QBs.
Yeah, but the reasons the Broncos didn't make the playoffs last year had nothing to do with Jay Cutler. That defense was absolutely terrible. So I guess I disagree a bit about him not making the playoffs with the same team that Jake Plummer did.
If he's not top tier, he's certainly in the tier directly below. And to me, the top tier belongs to Manning, Brady, and Brees. Would anyone else deserve to be in it? Maybe a healthy Warner?
Cutler played well last year but lets be real here, he had some hellafied weapons on offense. Both Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal are ballers and Brandon Stokely was money on third downs. Do you realize their leading rusher last year had less than 400 yards? Thats a big reason for all those passing yards, hell they couldn't run the ball. Cutler threw the ball 616 for second most in the league, in contrast Eli only threw 479 times. Now I like Cutler but right now I put Eli above him because he has won it all and he played his ass off last year too even without Plaxico. Eli had a slightly higher rating and 8 fewer INTs with just 4 less TDS. I am not saying Eli is head and shoulders above but I would say he is better right now.
Those are all fair points. Marshall and Royal were absolutely awesome last year. Although with their running game being so terrible, it also puts a lot more pressure on the QB, which could be partly responsible for the fairly high amounts of INT's. I guess we'll see. This is Cutler's 4th year, so he really should be starting to hit his prime.
I would have worries about McNabb's age and being injury prone. As far as Manning...I'm a lifelong, dyed in the wool Bears fan that grew up in the Indianapolis media market. Therefore, I admit I am outrageously biased against the Mannings and probably have difficulty making a reasoned argument that stands up outside of my Bears fan circle.
This might turn out alright for the Broncos if they can draft well. It should leave the team well positioned two years from now when McDaniels is run out of town on a rail.
Cutler is a bit emo, but he's a good QB, and the offense was good last year. It would have been even better if they hadn't needed a TD every offensive possession to give the team a chance to win.
Firing Shannahan was probably a mistake. He just needed to have the GM control pulled back away from him.
I heard on the radio today that the Bears have only had five seasons where their QB threw over 3,000 yards, 5! That's incredible. To put it in perspective, the next fewest seasons of 3,000 yards passing for a team is 6. And that's the Panthers and Jags. That was a mind-blowing stat to me.
Stacy, sorry to thread jack, but given the weak sauce of this year's free agency land for 49ers fans, I am wondering about Marvel Smith. Is he anything other than a journeyman? I mean it's hard to be optimistic from here about an oline guy released by the Steelers.
This is a good deal for both sides, with contingencies:
The Bears get a franchise quarterback with cap-friendly numbers going forward. Cutler isn't one of the elite quarterbacks in the league (Brady, Manning, Brees and Rivers) but he's right there in the class below them. They've also beefed up their offensive line, so they're going all in. That said, the offense was terrible last year and might only be mediocre this year.
The Broncos get two first rounders, a caretaker, and a second rounder for a guy that didn't want to stick around anyways. Not a bad haul.
Dunno if it was worth it, honestly. But given the Bears' history with QBs...maybe so. We'll see this year, won't we?
Question--who thinks Lovie's conservatism, the lack of playmakers at WR, Forte's skills, the shaky o-line and the weather will bring Cutler's numbers down?
I don't think the coaches' conservatism will hurt his numbers. Ron Turner has been dying to open up the offense but hasnt had the personnel to do it. Cutler, and a developing Forte and Olsen, will allow Ron Turner to try out the offense that he wants. I think his yardage will drop because they will still try to run the ball a lot, especially late in the season.
Great, great pick-up for Chicago, despite what they gave up, which was substantial (I'm talking the picks, not that crappy quarterback they threw in).
Chicago is sort of Baltimore-lite, always with the good defense and always with no quarterback at all, typically a guy with negative influence on the team. For that, Cutler should be a huge upgrade.
Of course, Cutler isn't the class of the NFC as a QB, not even close, not even in the Top 5 (see Warner, McNabb, Manning, Brees, Romo and Ryan...). Yes, Cutler has a gun of an arm, but dude has never shown he's a winner. Instead, he's shown he's a whiny little bitch who is more intent on bitching at Philip Rivers (another whiny bitch) than winning football games. Plus, the Broncos record was inflated last year by the debacle of the Hoculi game, when Cutler fumbled the game away in a horrible horrible play...but got bailed out by the refs.
And the way Cutler handled the McDaniels situation was embarrassing. McDaniels did exactly what he should have, outside of kissing Cutler's butt. And Cutler just lied and lied about it. I mean, saying you didn't want to be traded when you are the one who asked for a trade? Dude has a great arm, but seems like an entry in Dickipedia is forthcoming...
Congrats to Chicago fans though, and to Broncos fans too, since they probably made out fine with those picks...McDaniels is a smart dude, he'll be all right...
I'll repeat what I said earlier. Cutler's year last year was better than any year Eli Manning has had yet. And Eli has been in the league two years longer. I'm definitely not convinced that Romo is better than him, either. Is Romo a winner?
I would rather have Cutler than Romo. Romo puts on good numbers on a stacked team but so far has shown to be quite the choker in the clutch.
Was McNabb better than Cutler? Maybe 5 years ago, but if you were choosing a QB for the next 8 years there isn't a team in the league that would take McNabb over Cutler.
Warner had a phenomenal year but he also had the best WR core in the NFL and played in a dome. He's got 1 more year left in him, maybe, and that's only if he stays in Arizona. You couldn't put him on a cold weather team.
Cutler is arguably one of the top 5-8 QBs in the league and at 25 could be the Bears QB for the next 10 years. If he keeps progressing, he could be one of the top 3 QBs in the league.
Also, it's unfair to say he isn't a winner. In his 20 losses as a starter the defense gave up 33 points a game and he's 13-1 when the defense held opposing teams to under 21 points.
Sorry Stacy, but in my book, Eli Manning doing a little thing called winning the Super Bowl (not to mention beating a team that was 18-0 and doing it in spectacular fashion) sort of trumps Cutler putting up big numbers on a pretty awful team. Jeff George used to put up big numbers, too. So do a lot of other guys.
Plus, Eli did have a better passer rating than Cutler last year, while Cutler probably had better receivers. Cutler's big interception numbers made that possible.
Cutler might turn out to be great, and he's certainly better than any other guy Chicago has had for the last 10 years at least, but Eli's got a ring and Cutler hasn't even sniffed the playoffs. Only by the most limited of standards (passing yards) is anyone gonna say Cutler has been better than Eli.
Eli won the super bowl because of the defense and they had very good RBs.
Eli did have a better passer rating than Cutler last year, while Cutler probably had better receivers.
Eli had an 86.4 rating, Cutler had 86.0. I mean, really? And I'd say the receivers are about the same. Plax and Smith are really good and Hixon played really well, too.
Cutler had a lot of interceptions because he had the 2nd most attempts in the league last year. And you know why he had so many attempts? Because his team was down all the time due to the crappy defense not to mention every RB they had got hurt. If you were playing Denver you didn't have to worry about a RB hurting you so you just sat in a nickel package all game. Of course a guy is going to throw a lot of interceptions in that scenario! Context is everything.
Well, I think that claiming that Eli won the Super Bowl kind of misses the point of this conversation. If we're going off Super Bowl wins, does that mean that Eli is better than Phillip Rivers? Is he better than Drew Brees? Is he better than Matt Ryan? You might think so, but I don't.
Cutler's team was much, much, much worse than Eli's last year. His high INT probably had something to do with the fact that they had ZERO running game. When you're forced into a lot of 3rd and longs, you are certainly going to have more INT's. I'm not saying Cutler is a HOF, I'm just saying he's better than Eli.
It seems like you're trying to have it both ways, though. You're saying not to hold his INT numbers against him because he had to throw all the time. Earlier in the thread you said he was legit because he broke the Denver record for most passing yards. But both numbers were a function of him throwing all the time. Gotta take the bad with the good.
No doubt. I'm not excusing his INT's, but he's naturally going to have higher yards and INT's. I'm not saying his TD/INT ratio is acceptable for an elite QB, and he's going to have to work on making better decisions. But throwing for 4,500 yards is very, very impressive. Let's not forget that it was only his 2nd year starting, right?
I think Cutler is a pretty good young QB that has the potential to become a really good QB. But I don't think he's there yet. Either way, it's a huge upgrade for the Bears.
I'm a born and bred Broncos fan. Some of my earliest memories involve John Elway. Regrettably, I've been living overseas for the past few years and haven't been able to follow the NFL as closely as I'd like, but here's my take on this from my biased-as-hell perspective.
The consensus view among my friends and pundits whose judgment I trust in Denver at the end of last season was, "a really disappointing season, a terrible defense, but Cutler's the silver lining. We're lucky to have him and he's the future." Nobody really doubts he's got the gifts to be a great NFL QB.
As I followed this whole drama from afar, my first reaction was to be pissed at the organization. He's the franchise, so treat him that way! Why not just categorically rule out the possibility of a trade?
But even if we acknowledge that the initial fault here lies with the Broncos, it's hard to deny that Cutler behaved like an entitled little whiny bitch as the whole thing played out. He burned bridges and he had to go.
There were rumors about a trade with Detroit, which would have sent 3 of the first 33 picks (including #1) to Denver. This is the one I was hoping for, both for the draft picks and because trading Cutler to Detroit would ensure that he'd never have any future success. But I'm satisfied with the Bears deal.
If I were a Bears fan I'd be psyched about getting a talent like Cutler, but at least a little bit worried that we haven't just witnessed the first episode of a career head case.
Addendum: Bears fans, if you need a little anecdotal evidence of what kind of a brat you may (or may not) have landed in this deal, know that Cutler sent his daddy to Broncos HQ to turn in his playbook because he wouldn't do it himself. Good riddance.
Here's a piece no one cared about. Meh, whatever, probably the most enjoyable article I did during my stint at TIME. Premiered a month before I got laid-off. The nail in the coffin? Ya think?
Here's me going after Al. I didn't so much have a problem with him, as I had a problem with media acting like this dude was the go-to guy for everything black.
This was my first real story at time. I was writing for the Business section, a real change of direction for me. At any rate, it's about Wal-Mart's attempts to colonize the inner-city. As much as I enjoyed this piece, I mostly enjoyed going out to Chicago, which is a beautiful, beautiful city.
This a piece I did about the cops just outside our nation capitol, in Prince George's County, a few years back. I wanted to offer a counter to the dumb, conventional wisdom that if you paint your police force black, you could eradicate police brutality. In fact, Prince George's--one of the richest, blackest counties in the country--also had one of the most brutal police force's in the country.
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Jay Cutler makes me embarrassed to be a white person. (NB visitors: Some jokes here have a history).
It's a huge gamble to be sure: Denver gets two first rounders and a member of the Doobie Brothers for quarterback, but if played right, Denver could make out big.
I don't know about that. He was the only thing going for them last season...the only thing that's remotely positive about the trade for denver is that they get 2 first round picks. I'm guessing they'll use one on a qb...
It was really only one first rounder. The other pick was compensation for having to take Grossman.
Grossman is not in football anymore. They got Orton.
Bears fans like myself have spent a lifetime rationalizing and berating quarterbacks ranging from mediocre (The Kyle Ortons and Erik Kramers and Jim Millers) to truly horrible (anyone remember Cade McNown or Shane Matthews or P.T. Willis or Steve Stenstrom or Johnathon Quinn or...) Anyway, we are living in a strange state of ecstasy and confusion today.
It seems like everyone in the national media is throwing Cutler under the bus for being a crybaby, but if I remember right they were all praising him for his maturity and courage last year at this time when he announced he had played the whole 2007 season with untreated diabetes... Either way, these aren't my grandfather's bears anymore. The acquisition of Orlando Pace and Kevin Schaffer completely changes the look of the O-line. Here's hoping Cutler and an improved line can make Hester an actual NFL WR, rekindle the
Vanderbilt chemistry with Earl Bennett, and turn Matt Forte and Greg Olsen into pro bowlers. Chicago fans are full of high hopes in April...
im actually scared for the rest of the NFC now...i was hoping cutler would stay in the AFC, now he's looking like the best qb in the NFC for real. The Bears were a good QB from going to the playoffs last year, and i think cutler is the the thing that changes that team for real. I may be jumping the gun, but i think alot of teams were hoping to stack the line against the bears and bet on Orton to throw against them. It's going to be a very different ballgame going against the bears. Depending on how Denver draft, this may be the most lopsided trade in years. It may eventually cost McDaniels his job...
Uhmmm
Drew Brees
Donovan McNabb
Matthew Stafford
Eli Manning
Aaron Rodgers
I like Cutler but I am not ready to say he is the best QB in the NFC just yet. He is going to need a few more weapons around him before that can be said.
Errr not Matthew Stafford, I meant Matt Ryan. Draft on my mind evidently.
all good...all hood...but forrreeelthough, Cutler was a beast last year. I would like him to have a few more weapons...i 'll give you brees...but cutler is on par with the rest of them...at least during the season...don't know what he's going to look like in the post-seasoon...
I'll give you Drew Brees and Matt Ryan (assuming he continues to go the direction he started in last year). I think Cutler's got far more upside potential than Eli Manning. And McNabb? Maybe a healthy McNabb four years ago. No matter what your take on McNabb is, he is well past his halfway point in his career. I'd be more willing to buy Kurt Warner in that argument than McNabb.
Cutler is absolutely the cream of the NFC north QBs. And I'm telling you, don't overlook Earl Bennett for this year's Bears. He's the SEC's all time leader in receptions, and he's Cutler's buddy.
Jay A,
I think you're overstating things by calling Cutler "the absolute cream of the NFC North QBs." Aaron Rodgers had better numbers than Cutler last year. It may have been a fluke one-year thing, but that's yet to be determined.
We're going to throw Kurt Warner under the bus already?
Speaking as a Giants fan, I agree about the rest of the NFC. The Giants D will be sick, but I'm worried about not having the luxury of a playmaking wideout in a playoff matchup (provided the G-Men take the division) vs. the Bears. As for the Broncos, this may be one of those step back seasons to set up a leap forward in two years. They could really build a defense with these picks and they may be able to afford taking a shot at Sanchez with the 12 this year, provided they go out and get a veteran (who's out there) who can hold down the fort for a year as Sanchez develops. I mean, you can't assume that McDaniels' has inherited that Patriots' personnel acumen, but I'd be willing to give him a couple years if I were a Broncos fan.
im sure he's gone to the belichick personnel handling school...problem is, he's now in denver and will have to deal with the denver front office...and they just fired one of their most winningest coaches of all time...for o a guy who's never been a head coach...now, i don't think he's gonna be fired this year...but if the draft goes wrong, and they don't make the playoffs...he's looking for a new job in 2 years.
Depending on how Denver draft, this may be the most lopsided trade in years. It may eventually cost McDaniels his job...
I bloody well hope so. I think if you're a 32 year-old coach who's never won a game, it might be wise to start your first season with a little humility, rather than trying to remake the entire team (the offense of which was young and very promising).
Fuck McDaniels.
Sir are you british?? Btw excellent point on the humility, scary how much hubris one person can have... and might i add that they didn't need a new QB, they needed a rb?!!
Hmmm, I wonder where McDaniels inherited that hubris from?
Stacy, agreed...it was Belichick...but let's not compare apple's and oranges...Belichick has a very good argument for having that type of hubris....McDaniels not so much. Riding Belichicks coat-tails doesn't buy you much..specially not outside of NE...
No, trust me, I think it's ridiculous. I'd be pissed if I were a Broncos fan.
No argument there...i agree with you...it is ridiculous...and they should be mad...for now...
Gah, it was Orton, not Grossman. I guess that makes it even less funny.
This was a huge move for the Bears and I LOVE it. First the thing a lot of people aren't also noting is that the Bears also went out and picked up Orlando Pace who even after some injuries is a BEAST at left tackle. Now you have Forte coming back with a better line, Jay Cutler who can sling the rock with precision and TEs Olson and Clark along with WR Hester they have a solid foundation of a good offense. If they can get a free agent wideout or pick up a guy in the Second round since the wideout position is pretty deep in this draft they will be cooking with fish grease. I believe that their DLine Coach Marinelli is going to have Tommy Harris off the meat rack this year which will make their whole defense better. Right now I look for the Bears to win the NFC North should they pick up another reciever.
The Broncos got a pretty good deal with the draft picks but I think this move sets them back for at least 2 years. I don't see Chris Simms nor Kyle Orton is going to be their answer at QB and if LT comes back healthy there is no way they contend with the Chargers for the AFC west. Hell they might fuck around and end up behind the Raiders if JaMarcus Russell balls like he did at the end of last year. But the draft picks will help them change the face of their franchise. Now here is where there might be a problem though. For years people lauded their ex coach Shanahan for making wise moves in the draft and finding gems in the later rounds. Of course he made some recent mistakes when drafting DLinemen but still McDaniels is going to have to show that he knows how to pick players in the draft in order to get the Broncos back to elite status.
The Pace deal was great for the Bears, and it's hard to see how the big guy won't be fired up for this year. I think they need help at wideout, though, because while Hester's a gamebreaker, he's not a number one, or even a number two. How much money do they have under the cap? I wonder if Torry Holt would go play for them.
I was thinking Tory Holt too because of his connections to Lovie Smith but with his bad knees he might not want to play outside in a cold weather city. I wonder if anybody has picked up Amani Toomer though. He would be a decent pickup to me.
Yeah, I hate seeing him go, even if Big Blue still has Steve Smith. Toomer would fit in well with the Bears. Maybe both Holt and Toomer can be got. Or would that be investing too much in the short term, although I would think that the Bears are definitely in a win-now mode, with an investment on the future (Cutler, Forte).
In the spirit of poetic thread hijacking, I am proposing a poetry contest in the comments here, to be judged by our illustrious blogmaster. Contestants should enter either a limerick or a haiku, on one of the three following topics:
*Michael Steele
*The social value of urban environments
*The nature of human identity
My entry:
Asphalt 'neath my feet
my pace quickens with the minds
around me thriving
When Micheal was picked by the GOP
He began to relentlessly DROP
White boy ebonics without the ironics
No wonder he's been such a FLOP.
No one's beating Tim. But I have to do SOMETHING to get my mind off this Cutler trade, so, here it goes:
Smoke corkscrews through street
lamp light. Laughter; "Barack is
half white. Steele? All crazy."
Tried to get all three topics in there; might suffer as a poem because of that.
I honestly can't believe how much this story, what with baseball being a week away and NHL and NBA playoff races coming down to the wire, is dominating all sports TV and apparently chat. What the flip do I care about either of these teams outside of a decent late 80s Tecmo Bowl matchup?
Football is the most popular sport. It leaves you wanting more, unlike the NHL and the NBA where the seasons drag on forever.
well...that would be easily fixed if you ajusted the schedules...it doesn't actually say anything about the sport itself...i love me some march madness and the NBA playoffs in the spring, some soccer and some MMA/K1 all year long...but yeah, when the season starts in september...NFL is no 1.
Jay A,
"I think Cutler's got far more upside potential than Eli Manning."
I think we have an idea of what Eli Manning's upside potential looks like. It looks like Peyton Manning. I'll take that.
Eli Manning's upside potential looks like Peyton Manning? Surely you jest. Eli Manning has not had one season where he's been one of the top five QB's in the league. Cutler's season last year was better than any season Eli has had yet. Eli's ceiling might be a bit higher than he's at right now. Good enough to be a starting QB, obviously, but his potential is not Peyton Manning.
Jay A
I am not talking about potential because potential just means you haven't done it yet. I am talking about the skills they have today. I would take Donavan today for this season over Cutler all other things being equal hands down. The same with Brees or Manning. I will give you that I didn't put Warner on the list but I have worries about his age and being injury prone but skill wise he is above Cutler too. Now that doesn't mean that Cutler won't be better than them in the years to come. But it does remain to be seen if that will be so.
I agree with you about Brees. Not sure about McNabb because he's really getting up there. Absolutely disagree about Manning.
Cutler broke the record last season for most yards by a Denver QB. The dude is legit. Right now.
I don't know, Cutler's pretty good, but that's about it, IMO. He has yet to lead a team to the playoffs (playing for the same Broncos team that made regular playoff appearances under his predecessor, Jake Plummer), and his passer rating has been pretty much in the middle of the pack.
I think he is undoubtedly -- undoubtedly -- an upgrade for Chicago, but I don't think he belongs in the top tier of NFL QBs.
Yeah, but the reasons the Broncos didn't make the playoffs last year had nothing to do with Jay Cutler. That defense was absolutely terrible. So I guess I disagree a bit about him not making the playoffs with the same team that Jake Plummer did.
If he's not top tier, he's certainly in the tier directly below. And to me, the top tier belongs to Manning, Brady, and Brees. Would anyone else deserve to be in it? Maybe a healthy Warner?
Stacy, my top tier would be Manning, Brady, Brees, Warner, Roethlisberger, and Rivers, with Eli and McNabb on the borderline.
My next tier would probably be Cutler, Ryan, Flacco, Palmer, Pennington, Romo, and Rodgers.
I dunno, maybe I'm biased against Denver QBs. I thought Jake Plummer was overrated as well.
Cutler played well last year but lets be real here, he had some hellafied weapons on offense. Both Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal are ballers and Brandon Stokely was money on third downs. Do you realize their leading rusher last year had less than 400 yards? Thats a big reason for all those passing yards, hell they couldn't run the ball. Cutler threw the ball 616 for second most in the league, in contrast Eli only threw 479 times. Now I like Cutler but right now I put Eli above him because he has won it all and he played his ass off last year too even without Plaxico. Eli had a slightly higher rating and 8 fewer INTs with just 4 less TDS. I am not saying Eli is head and shoulders above but I would say he is better right now.
Those are all fair points. Marshall and Royal were absolutely awesome last year. Although with their running game being so terrible, it also puts a lot more pressure on the QB, which could be partly responsible for the fairly high amounts of INT's. I guess we'll see. This is Cutler's 4th year, so he really should be starting to hit his prime.
I would have worries about McNabb's age and being injury prone. As far as Manning...I'm a lifelong, dyed in the wool Bears fan that grew up in the Indianapolis media market. Therefore, I admit I am outrageously biased against the Mannings and probably have difficulty making a reasoned argument that stands up outside of my Bears fan circle.
This might turn out alright for the Broncos if they can draft well. It should leave the team well positioned two years from now when McDaniels is run out of town on a rail.
Cutler is a bit emo, but he's a good QB, and the offense was good last year. It would have been even better if they hadn't needed a TD every offensive possession to give the team a chance to win.
Firing Shannahan was probably a mistake. He just needed to have the GM control pulled back away from him.
I heard on the radio today that the Bears have only had five seasons where their QB threw over 3,000 yards, 5! That's incredible. To put it in perspective, the next fewest seasons of 3,000 yards passing for a team is 6. And that's the Panthers and Jags. That was a mind-blowing stat to me.
Stacy, sorry to thread jack, but given the weak sauce of this year's free agency land for 49ers fans, I am wondering about Marvel Smith. Is he anything other than a journeyman? I mean it's hard to be optimistic from here about an oline guy released by the Steelers.
This is a good deal for both sides, with contingencies:
The Bears get a franchise quarterback with cap-friendly numbers going forward. Cutler isn't one of the elite quarterbacks in the league (Brady, Manning, Brees and Rivers) but he's right there in the class below them. They've also beefed up their offensive line, so they're going all in. That said, the offense was terrible last year and might only be mediocre this year.
The Broncos get two first rounders, a caretaker, and a second rounder for a guy that didn't want to stick around anyways. Not a bad haul.
Two number ones AND a 3rd AND Kyle Orton?
Dunno if it was worth it, honestly. But given the Bears' history with QBs...maybe so. We'll see this year, won't we?
Question--who thinks Lovie's conservatism, the lack of playmakers at WR, Forte's skills, the shaky o-line and the weather will bring Cutler's numbers down?
I don't think the coaches' conservatism will hurt his numbers. Ron Turner has been dying to open up the offense but hasnt had the personnel to do it. Cutler, and a developing Forte and Olsen, will allow Ron Turner to try out the offense that he wants. I think his yardage will drop because they will still try to run the ball a lot, especially late in the season.
Great, great pick-up for Chicago, despite what they gave up, which was substantial (I'm talking the picks, not that crappy quarterback they threw in).
Chicago is sort of Baltimore-lite, always with the good defense and always with no quarterback at all, typically a guy with negative influence on the team. For that, Cutler should be a huge upgrade.
Of course, Cutler isn't the class of the NFC as a QB, not even close, not even in the Top 5 (see Warner, McNabb, Manning, Brees, Romo and Ryan...). Yes, Cutler has a gun of an arm, but dude has never shown he's a winner. Instead, he's shown he's a whiny little bitch who is more intent on bitching at Philip Rivers (another whiny bitch) than winning football games. Plus, the Broncos record was inflated last year by the debacle of the Hoculi game, when Cutler fumbled the game away in a horrible horrible play...but got bailed out by the refs.
And the way Cutler handled the McDaniels situation was embarrassing. McDaniels did exactly what he should have, outside of kissing Cutler's butt. And Cutler just lied and lied about it. I mean, saying you didn't want to be traded when you are the one who asked for a trade? Dude has a great arm, but seems like an entry in Dickipedia is forthcoming...
Congrats to Chicago fans though, and to Broncos fans too, since they probably made out fine with those picks...McDaniels is a smart dude, he'll be all right...
I'll repeat what I said earlier. Cutler's year last year was better than any year Eli Manning has had yet. And Eli has been in the league two years longer. I'm definitely not convinced that Romo is better than him, either. Is Romo a winner?
I would rather have Cutler than Romo. Romo puts on good numbers on a stacked team but so far has shown to be quite the choker in the clutch.
Was McNabb better than Cutler? Maybe 5 years ago, but if you were choosing a QB for the next 8 years there isn't a team in the league that would take McNabb over Cutler.
Warner had a phenomenal year but he also had the best WR core in the NFL and played in a dome. He's got 1 more year left in him, maybe, and that's only if he stays in Arizona. You couldn't put him on a cold weather team.
Cutler is arguably one of the top 5-8 QBs in the league and at 25 could be the Bears QB for the next 10 years. If he keeps progressing, he could be one of the top 3 QBs in the league.
Also, it's unfair to say he isn't a winner. In his 20 losses as a starter the defense gave up 33 points a game and he's 13-1 when the defense held opposing teams to under 21 points.
I think Brees and Warner are the only QB's in the NFC that you can definitely say are better than Cutler.
Sorry Stacy, but in my book, Eli Manning doing a little thing called winning the Super Bowl (not to mention beating a team that was 18-0 and doing it in spectacular fashion) sort of trumps Cutler putting up big numbers on a pretty awful team. Jeff George used to put up big numbers, too. So do a lot of other guys.
Plus, Eli did have a better passer rating than Cutler last year, while Cutler probably had better receivers. Cutler's big interception numbers made that possible.
Cutler might turn out to be great, and he's certainly better than any other guy Chicago has had for the last 10 years at least, but Eli's got a ring and Cutler hasn't even sniffed the playoffs. Only by the most limited of standards (passing yards) is anyone gonna say Cutler has been better than Eli.
Eli won the super bowl because of the defense and they had very good RBs.
Eli did have a better passer rating than Cutler last year, while Cutler probably had better receivers.
Eli had an 86.4 rating, Cutler had 86.0. I mean, really? And I'd say the receivers are about the same. Plax and Smith are really good and Hixon played really well, too.
Cutler had a lot of interceptions because he had the 2nd most attempts in the league last year. And you know why he had so many attempts? Because his team was down all the time due to the crappy defense not to mention every RB they had got hurt. If you were playing Denver you didn't have to worry about a RB hurting you so you just sat in a nickel package all game. Of course a guy is going to throw a lot of interceptions in that scenario! Context is everything.
Well, I think that claiming that Eli won the Super Bowl kind of misses the point of this conversation. If we're going off Super Bowl wins, does that mean that Eli is better than Phillip Rivers? Is he better than Drew Brees? Is he better than Matt Ryan? You might think so, but I don't.
Cutler's team was much, much, much worse than Eli's last year. His high INT probably had something to do with the fact that they had ZERO running game. When you're forced into a lot of 3rd and longs, you are certainly going to have more INT's. I'm not saying Cutler is a HOF, I'm just saying he's better than Eli.
It seems like you're trying to have it both ways, though. You're saying not to hold his INT numbers against him because he had to throw all the time. Earlier in the thread you said he was legit because he broke the Denver record for most passing yards. But both numbers were a function of him throwing all the time. Gotta take the bad with the good.
No doubt. I'm not excusing his INT's, but he's naturally going to have higher yards and INT's. I'm not saying his TD/INT ratio is acceptable for an elite QB, and he's going to have to work on making better decisions. But throwing for 4,500 yards is very, very impressive. Let's not forget that it was only his 2nd year starting, right?
Yeah, two and a half seasons, Stacy.
I think Cutler is a pretty good young QB that has the potential to become a really good QB. But I don't think he's there yet. Either way, it's a huge upgrade for the Bears.
I'm a born and bred Broncos fan. Some of my earliest memories involve John Elway. Regrettably, I've been living overseas for the past few years and haven't been able to follow the NFL as closely as I'd like, but here's my take on this from my biased-as-hell perspective.
The consensus view among my friends and pundits whose judgment I trust in Denver at the end of last season was, "a really disappointing season, a terrible defense, but Cutler's the silver lining. We're lucky to have him and he's the future." Nobody really doubts he's got the gifts to be a great NFL QB.
As I followed this whole drama from afar, my first reaction was to be pissed at the organization. He's the franchise, so treat him that way! Why not just categorically rule out the possibility of a trade?
But even if we acknowledge that the initial fault here lies with the Broncos, it's hard to deny that Cutler behaved like an entitled little whiny bitch as the whole thing played out. He burned bridges and he had to go.
There were rumors about a trade with Detroit, which would have sent 3 of the first 33 picks (including #1) to Denver. This is the one I was hoping for, both for the draft picks and because trading Cutler to Detroit would ensure that he'd never have any future success. But I'm satisfied with the Bears deal.
If I were a Bears fan I'd be psyched about getting a talent like Cutler, but at least a little bit worried that we haven't just witnessed the first episode of a career head case.
Addendum: Bears fans, if you need a little anecdotal evidence of what kind of a brat you may (or may not) have landed in this deal, know that Cutler sent his daddy to Broncos HQ to turn in his playbook because he wouldn't do it himself. Good riddance.