The point was made yesterday that there are white people on TV, every day, who make a living speaking in a manner that's twice as insane as anything you hear on the corner. Indeed. If you're a nut and you happen to be black, you're Cynthia McKinney. If you're a nut and happen to be white, well...
I know white people aren't embarrassed by Glenn Beck. But seriously, you guys really should be. Come on white folks, where's that sense of solidarity you've showed for centuries? You guys are a sorry bunch. Keep this up and the nigras will be marrying yer daughters!!
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Copyright © 2009 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
Paranoia is now America's largest export.
Oh don't worry, he's getting his Whitey Card revoked at the next meeting.
TNC- I am white, and embrassed everytime this guys shows his face, and even more embrassed that he draws a crowd, but we've learned fear does that...but colbert rakes him over the coals often, so there is some balance to the world...
That last paragraph kills me. But it's even funnier when you imagine a first time reader coming to the site, and seeing that.
We'll trade you Glenn Beck and Steve Doocy's expiring contract for Michael Steele. What do ya say?
Naaa! We keep Michael Steele, he a crazy rapper, that happens to be chairman of the GOP! I don't know how he did it! Glenn Beck is just loony!I am gonna give a hug to every white people i know and meet, they must be terribly embarassed and ashamed about what's happening right now.
Sometimes I wonder if the attention people are giving him is hurting, not helping. I remember seeing him on Headline News when he used to say this crap all of the time, calling FDR an "evil son of a bitch" and what not. I wonder how many people really take him seriously considering the low approval ratings of the GOP--and if these theatrics aren't simply for ratings.
I do believe that giving him attention only gives him ratings, which keeps this stuff on the air. At the same, its hard not to confront such insanity.
We need to elevate the dialogue in this country. It should be clear to everyone that this is not a joke anymore. This blog is a great example of how that can happen. I just wonder what is the best way to keep this nonsense out.
I've always thought Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannigan were clowns. A clown makes a living by acting stupid in front of people (usually, children) who don't know any better.
A recent New York Times story revealed that Beck was a rodeo clown in the past. A professional clown. He's now making big money pushing the Fox circus to levels of absurdity.
Problem is, his fans don't seem to understand that he's a clown. Nor do many of his enemies.
A couple of weeks ago, Keith Olbermann revealed something very telling on Real Time. Apparently, he ran into Hannity at some cocktail party. Hannity's conversation piece, "Hey, don't you think its crazy how everyone thinks we hate each other?"
Yeah, I saw that too. If it's true, it's pretty awesome. Although I think there's about a 40% chance it went the way KO said it did. It's just a little TOO perfect.
I can only process Glenn Beck by assuuming it's performance art, or an on-the-air drawn-out nervous breakdown. That level of... just, whatever it is, I don't even know what to call it, cannot be sustainable over a long-term period of time.
But what really entertained me was looking at the link URL, I immediately thought of Beck-the-musician, and was really interested to hear why Beck-the-musician thought we were marching towards fascism. Glenn Beck was just disappointing, after that.
Also I guess I should specify I was looking at this post through an RSS feed that cut off the video embedded here, so I didn't get that as context. I mean, if I'd seen the image, I probably wouldn't have thought of Beck-the-musician. Unless he really let himself go...
Keep this up and the nigras will be marrying yer daughters!!
Would that speed up the descent to fascism? Slow it down? Which am I rooting for here?
I don't see the relationship...
But, sniff, I love my country. Wipes tear.
We all know the only reason he's on the air is ratings. If he didn't make money for Fox, he would have been bounced long ago. Maybe I'm just ridiculously optimistic but I say let him talk because somewhere, at sometime, somebody is going to get tired of it and start hitting back. Hopefully that will spark a "fed up" movement of folks who want to elevate the cultural dialog to a grown up level.
TNC wants you to pull his "white" card. That's a good idea, but I say when you get the next email from a relative/friend saying that Obama is a Muslim operative hellbent on destroying America, send them back a Colbert clip or something else equally sensible. Sign them up for a subscription to a real newspaper (who could use your business right about now). Tell them you're going to pray for gullible people like them who are easily led by demagogues. The W years have given the idiots a false sense of security. It is time to let them know that they really are outnumbered by smart people.
"It is time to let them know that they really are outnumbered by smart people."
They are? I like your confidence!
Well, Obama did win. That's a start for believing the grown ups are in charge again.
". If he didn't make money for Fox, he would have been bounced long ago."
He hasn't been on Fox that long. Fox recruited him from CNN.
OK, then they wouldn't have hired him in the first place. Feel better?
He obviously wasn't making money for them before they hired him, but yes, they hired him because they thought he would make money for them. Which of course is the same reason CNN had hired him. And I feel fine, thanks for asking.
McKinney was elected to Congress, where she had real power and responsibility. Beck's just a guy on TV (as is Mos Def, in addition to his other media roles, e.g., as a rapper, actor, etc.).
Well, Beck is just the example used here, but there are plenty of white whackadoos in Congress. Michelle Bachmann springs immediately to mind.
We also have John Shimkus telling the subcommittee on energy and the environment this week that global warming doesn't matter, since God decides when the earth will end and capping CO2 emissions will eliminate plant food. We have more than our share of crackpots, nutcases and cuckoo bananas.
Beck confuses me; I'm not sure if I should be embarrassed, awed by or scared of the guy. He's either a Times Square soabox crazy who fell into a primetime show, America's most talented character actor or another gram of yay away from shooting up a suburban shopping mall.
Freeman Dyson, one of the world's most brilliant scientists, made a similar point about the effect of CO2 on plant life in the New York Times Magazine last weekend:
In re: DaveinJackensack on Freeman Dyson. That would be the physicist who was interviewed recently by a baseball writer? Right. Here's a response by climate scientists. Also see here.
I don't have a good smartass comment on Glen Beck, though I feel that I should. Regrettably, I do have a thumbsucker-y pseudo deep comment: I think the bigger dynamic is that in as much as the average white person feels some group identity, it's not to whiteness but to ethnicity or sometimes region. Like, it may be that peeps in Charleston groaned when they saw the Ms. Teen South Carolina video, perhaps even Southerners elsewhere. But white people qua white people? Nah. (Not even blonds, I think.) I remember, when I first learned of it, feeling some shame about the Civil War Draft riots in NYC, when my ethic ancestors burned a black orphanage. But Glen Beck is just some dude. The only way I'd possibly feel ashamed of him is if someone from another country brought him up, like, WTF, America? And I'd have to be like, I don't fucking know, man. There has to be a Venn diagram of overlap, and whites rarely feel their whiteness the way Americans don't tend to feel their Americaness, until they leave the country....
I don't want to get in too deep, but I disagree with the "embarrassing me because we are the same race" meme.
I was thrilled with your "American Girl" article on First Lady Obama because I was hopeful you were helping to play down the habit we (Americans) have of dividing ourselves by race.
I'm embarrassed by Glenn Beck as an American. I'm embarrassed as an American that our broadcast media provides him with a platform.
I didn't post a comment on your Mos Def post yesterday. By the time I got here, the video was no longer available. But from what I read, Mos Def didn't embarrass anyone but himself. He embarrassed himself by not being prepared; was allegedly intoxicated; and, allowed himself to become agitated (and subsequently began babbling) because the other guests and the host made it clear that it didn't matter what Al Queda and the Taliban wanted, they're BAD people and that should be enough for anyone.
OK. I realize this post is meant to be humorous, so I'll end now.
I agree that the whole group embarrassment thing is a little troubling. I get the joke, too, but the whole concept that black people or white people or whoever are on "teams" of some kind and one member of the "team" is somehow representative of everybody does not sit well with me.
I'm more OK with the idea of one democrat being embarrassed by the conduct of another person who identifies themselves as a democrat, or a southern baptist being embarrassed by another self-identified southern baptist. Those things are group identities that people have chosen to assume. I graduated from the same college as Pat Robertson, for example, and I'm not super keen on having people think of me as the product of the same proud educational tradition that produces goons like him. But I CHOSE that school, and arguably that choice could be read to say something about me. But the concept that I should be embarrassed by say, Paris Hilton, with whom I have absolutely nothing in common other than skin and hair color, because she's somehow a stand-in for us interchangeable, generic blond white chicks everywhere, or that TNC should be embarrassed by some ignorant rapper because he's representing "the race" on TV, smacks of some seriously crazy, early 20th century, Lothrop Stoddard crap racism to me.
I think TNC is making a tongue-in-cheek point. The fact is, black people are asked to answer for other black people all the time, in a way that white people aren't. Think of Obama being asked to "renounce and reject" Farrakhan or to answer for something Harry Belafonte said.
I know it's a joke, but in the context of the post yesterday where TNC seemed somewhat personally embarrassed by Mos Def, it's not ALL a joke. I'd say the correct response to the people who think Obama should have to answer for Louis Farrakhan is to point out that that makes no sense whatsoever, NOT asking Farrakhan to shape up and stop embarrassing all black people. The latter just buys into a racist fallacy. I know TNC doesn't really think all white people are responsible for Glen Beck's BS. In the same vein, I don't think all black people are responsible for Mos Def's BS, so I think TNC's reaction (some personal embarrassment/ blaming Cornell West for not setting Mos Def straight) ought to be explained a little, at a minimum.
First I would like to point out that TNC felt embarrassed for Mos Def for the hip-hop generation. I believe he pointed that out in one of the thread's responses.
Second, TNC may have been joking, but I think on some level his feelings might have been real. As Daughter pointed out Blacks are constantly made to answer for each other, not just by society, but also by ourselves as well.
It's a confusing country that we live in. Everyone wants America to be this huge melting pot- yet as soon as something goes wrong its: "Why can't blacks do this. Why can't blacks do that. The Chinese are this way..why can't Hispanics and Blacks be the same?"
And at the same time there is this inner battle within the African American community: "We have to help each other..we can't be seen as ignorant in front of whites..don't air the dirty laundry..etc."
The melting pot question should be: "Why can't American's help each other?"
.. it should be, but that's not reality, now is it? Maybe some day.
We are on teams. We always have been on teams. No amount of well-meaning, "things shouldn't be that way," is going to change it. Just accept it, tend to your people, and move forward in solidarity. That goes for white folks, as well as black folks and any other community. When my fellow Dominican-Americans step out of line, I want to be the first at the discussion table with them hashing out our issues.
Check out the work of Tim Wise, an anti-racist activist. His work isn't about saying "white people did bad things, let's pretend race doesn't exist." It's about engaging his community on issues of race. It's about white people talking to white people about how and why specific American racial ideology came about historically (hint: $$$), and thinking about how to move forward and improve as a community. Pretending you're not responsible for what your co-ethnics or members of your race do doesn't help anybody but yourself. See something, say something. Move forward together.
The thing that makes hip-hop fans upset when Mos does something like this is that he isn't "some ignorant rapper." In fact that dismissal is pretty lame and ignores that there are plenty of rappers who engage in thoughtful discussion. Mos is, most of the time, one of them. In fact, in the 90s he seemed like a shining example of an intelligent activist MC. In the last decade, he's slipped into these reactionary and nihilistic, as TNC puts it, positions that make it harder to look up to him and undermines the cause of responsible and conscious hip-hop. Yes, Mos is only one man, and there are guys out there I'd rather have speaking for hip-hop (Jay Smooth), but Mos has the highest profile in the "conscious" community. So when TNC says he would rather see him chastised by Cornel West, he's saying that he would like to elevate the discourse internally in the hip-hop community, and internally in the black community (vis-a-vis West), before releasing Mos out to debate Hitchens, who doesn't really come to the table with a respect for either.
LA Times
embarrassed?
more like "How many american citizens are certifiably batshit insane and is their number rising?"
I'm just embarrassed to be from the same species as Glenn Beck. Hell, he gives trillobytes a bad name.
Seriously I hope this is an act. If not we should be fearing for his family. No joke.
I think "group embarrassment", over the actions of a member of that group, is more profound among members of groups that somehow are considered or consider themselves "minorities".
If some cannibal serial killer is on the loose somewhere I don't think white folks say "please don't let him be white". However, I'm sure lots of blacks and hispanics would think that.
Of course as an unmarried white male well into middle age I might be offended by the stereotype that white males make up the overwhelming majority of serial killers. Hey, I'm getting kind of hungry.
I'm sure Catholic Priests hate it when some Priest gets arrested for diddling underage boys. Catholic Priests being a small and readily identifiable minority.
It must be difficult being a young female schoolteacher now. Since seemingly daily there are stories out there about such teachers getting horizontal with male or female students.
I know some Jewish folks wring their hands and kvetch in the hopes that the next financial scandal doesn't involve any other Jewish folks. Just like I hope the town drunk isn't of Irish descent. Damn, I'm thirsty.
By the way if blacks are marrying white daughters that means whites can marry black daughters. Rikyrah? You around? I need to lighten and brighten your family gatherings. "Goddammit, LaQueesah, that's the palest white boy I ever seen. He's practically translucent. Turn up the lights and you wouldn't even see him."
White males do make up the majority of serial killers. BTK, Gacy, Son of Sam, Manson ....
Just so ya know .... :)
White people embarrass me every day, including myself.
Ta-Nehisi,
Your mention of Cynthia McKinney just reminded me of another black Congresswoman who has been called crazy, Maxine Waters (see, for example, your colleague Megan McCardle's recent post, "Maxine Waters brings the crazy"). As I mentioned in a comment on that thread, I don't think Maxine Waters is crazy (although I think she is crooked, which is a different issue).
This is also relevant to the previous discussion about Mos Def, in that a few commenters here seemed to feel that he was making legitimate points but was being dismissed as crazy. I happen to disagree with their view with respect to Mos Def's appearance on Maher, but I do think that Maxine Waters raised some legitimate questions in the clip Megan posted. Maybe because of some other stuff she's said in the past, or her minor flubbing of terminology in that clip (e.g., referring to one of Geithner's deputies as his "CEO") Megan and some of her commenters dismissed Waters's questions, but I think that was a mistake. Check out the clip at Megan's post, read the comments, and see what you think.
I'm not even white and I'm embarrassed by Glenn Beck! Shit!
Speaking of anti-semitism, do you think Glenn Beck would be railing against Bernanke if he was Ben Bernard?
Its not often publicized, but Glenn Beck is a Mormon--he normally just refers to his abstinence as a result of addiction. I wonder if the people who revel in his bigotry would feel the same way if they knew his religion.
I don't watch Beck, but this is the first I've heard him accused of bigotry. Are you basing this on something other than Joel's insinuation that Beck's criticism of Bernanke is based on Bernanke being a Jew?
I don't think its open--its subtle. Is he the worst? Not at all, I don't even think its worse than O'Reilly. But I do think its there
Yes, I absolutely think that Glenn Beck would be saying the same things if is name was Ben Benard. Beck is a lot of things, but he's never really struck me as a bigot.
I just laughed my juice out through my nose. Thanks, Glenn Beck!
Given: White folks have an uncle who loves Glenn Beck.
Theory: The difference between Glenn Beck and Mos Def is that "white uncle" is a demographic that advertisers want to reach to sell products like prostate shrinkers and erection pills. So Glenn Beck gets his own special on Fox News and Mos Def gets obliterated on Politically Incorrect.
Conclusion: What we need is black uncles with more money, so they too can be the demographic that Viagra and Gold Bond seek. Mos Def would get his own prime time special and Chocolate News would take over for Colbert.
Maybe it's just that "black uncles" don't need "male enhancement" pills.
please read the previous post by TNC and note the irony haha
I think this is related to the issues of whether whites or blacks have a monolithic culture, and if blacks and whites percieve their own cultures to be monolithic.
But putting that larger issue aside for a moment, there isn't anything that Glen Beck says or does that I feel represents me or that I should be embarrassed for. I can't think of any situation where I would feel somehow responsible for someone's idiocy simply because they were white. That's why I was sort of puzzled by TNC's feeling about Mos-Definite. Lots of white people dismiss Beck (or Palin or Hannity) as the quack that he is, and don't feel like their betraying their race or otherwise doing something wrong by doing so. So why feel embarrassed by Mos Def or Cynthia McKinney or Flava Flav? Why not feel free to criticize or dismiss without feeling guilty? Is it because you think non-blacks consider these people to be representative?
Maybe all of these questions were answered in yesterday's discussion, and if so I apologize. But I've been crazy busy and didn't have the time to read through the battle (I only even registered for comments today. Talk about out of the mix!).
And one more thing. White folks only have solidarity when we are dealing with black people, otherwise we're busy killing, subjugating and maiming eachother (See History of Western Civilization, Prehistory to Present).
There has been wide diversity in white opinion through the media forever, because whites represent the dominant social, cultural and economic power. Minorities have long been denied access to major media, and when they've received it, it's been on terms set by whites. That's changing, thank God. But historically, the few blacks or Hispanics that gained access to the media were naturally seen by the white masses as "representatives" of the race. The more color and the more voices we get on the airwaves, the less pressure there will be for anybody to represent his or her race.
There is something about Glen Beck's face. Doesn't he look just like the guy that was always picked on in elementary school? The guy that bullies pantsed in front of the girls? I think there is something psychological that goes back to his childhood about this guy. How is this guy not embarrasing, even to people of like minds?
Ye Gods, that's insane.
It also is strikingly reminiscent of this fantastically lunatic scene in the Talking Heads' obscure "True Stories" film, from all the way back in 1986. Re-watching that just now, the parallels gave me chills.
cheers nkoren
downloading it now
I love this...im sorry...im bad i know...but i just love this! Not to demonize americans or anything. But he plays in to the "americans are so ignorant of the world" meme that's going on. He's practically a satirization of himself. He's bat-to-the-shit-to-the-crazy. For all the conspiracy theories i've listened to through the years. The JBS, trilateral commission, the illuminati, and now this?! This is golden. Fox for all their disgusting polemics and racialist bullshit really hit the jackpot on this one. It's canned crazy, and their selling it by the gallon. Alot of people belive this, otherwise he wouldn't be signed by fox, and he wouldn't have the numbers he has. But i think, for the last 8-9 years, there has been a sense of unease in the US, and FOX is tapping into that. the distance between the people and the elected is always bigger in times of danger and despair. Fortunately, i think that this will go over as soon as there is some stability in the country. Beck won't go away, but i presume that his numbers aren't going to be as good as they are now...
"I know white people aren't embarrassed by Glenn Beck. But seriously, you guys really should be"
How do you define "you guys"? Am I, as a Jew, included in this group? Jews are usually considered white, yet why should I feel embarrassed by what some Anglo-American guy does?
This points to the whole problem with white/black parallels. "White" is usually defined in a negative way, as whatever is left over after excluding other groups. Though I may be considering too much of the Jewish angle, my impression is that white people as a whole (apart from white supremacists) do not think of themselves as a single cohesive group. They think of themselves as Irish-Americans, German-Americans, Polish-Americans, Italian-Americans, and so on.
I can be embarrassed by other Jews. Certainly, Italian-Americans can be embarrassed by other Italians. But you wouldn't expect Italians to be embarrassed by Swedes.
Of course, this is all a huge double standard. African Americans--which can include Americans with black ancestry from anywhere in Africa--are considered one group, even though their ancestry may be as diverse as Europeans. This thinking reflects the history of slavery but is still deeply ingrained in our culture.
I think you see those same types sub-groupings in the Black community. Often if someone is in their first few generations as Americans, originally from the Carib, or from Africa, there is a much stronger affiliation with the subgroup, say Nigerian, or Trini, or whatever, than their is with the larger "black."
But for those of us who are the progeny of slaves, we've been here for the past half-millennium so really, unless we've had some of that newfangled mitochondrial DNA mapping to find out who our great, great, great x 10 grandmother is, their is nothing more specific. Not racially anyway.
I'm pretty sure there plenty of white people out their who are similarly, "just white."
I would be embarassed by Glen Beck and acts of tomfoolery by other white dudes, but that might mean I have to officially relinquishing my White Privilege.
As a fellow Mormon I am incredibly embarrassed by 'Brother' Beck. If we didn't have three Democratic Senators (the Udalls and Reid) I don't think I could show my face in public.
You're proud of Reid?
Not proud, just not embarrassed. That being said, As much as I would love a senate majority leader that would make senators wear diapers to filibuster or just do away with it all together, that is not really an option. To become senate majority leader you must nurse 99 egos to the point of absurdity. There is a reason Coates and Yglesias are not politicians. Sorry, off topic.
Got it: you're not proud of him because he's not far enough to the left for you. I was coming at it from a different angle, because I think he's a hack.
Speaking for whitey, we don't want him. Which reminds me, this is another occasion to link to Chapelle's Racial Draft skit:
http://comedy.videosift.com/video/Chappelles-Show-The-Racial-Draft
"I know white people aren't embarrassed by Glenn Beck."
If that read "I know white people who aren't embarrassed by Glenn Beck" I could believe it. But...seriously, TNC? You honestly think there isn't a single white person who doesn't cringe when he opens his mouth?
Or...is it that you feel we aren't embarrassed by his actual whiteness, but rather merely the insanity of his rhetoric? That we don't feel he makes our entire race look bad? There, you might be on to something. I feel more embarrassed by Glenn Beck as a human being than as a white person.
I think that rather than the question of whites being generically embarrassed by Glenn Beck, the more legitimate question is are conservatives embarrassed by him? To their credit, a few conservatives I happen to loathe or find excruciatingly annoying, most notably David Frum, are in fact embarrassed by him and have made a point of that in public. But a conservative movement and conservative media that appears to have a place for the likes of Glenn Beck as one of their chief Grievance Mongers are in deep, deep crisis. (I have to admit I'm not unhappy with this development.)
I just love when Beck throws in his perfunctory "we need to read and educate ourselves" line in order to provide some sort of flimsy cover, something his audience who watches in earnest can fall back on ("He's not crazy, he tells us to read and educate ourselves"). Sorta like the defense about Fox being balanced because they had Alan Colmes.
Am I the only one who sees the parallels between Glenn Beck and Jimmy Swaggart? I'm fully expecting him to start asking for donations to the 9.12 project, if he isn't already. He's the best con man I've seen in a long while; I don't buy for a second that he believes one word of what he's saying. He sees an economic opportunity (to exploit white fears) and he's out to exploit it while the getting is good.
My fear is really around the people he's inciting. I think it's probably safe to say that a goodly number of the 2.2 million that watched last month take this stuff at face value and REALLY believe it. He's basically providing justification for any crazy Michigan Militia-types to re-organize and start blowing up federal buildings. In fact, I'm more worried about that than I am about another Al-Qaeda attack. Does that make me as crazy as Mos Def?
Yeah, Beck definitely had a televangelist vibe going, I caught it too.
I watched "Elmer Gantry" for the first time the other night and indeed saw some parallels. As dated as it is in terms of acting and set pieces and musical score, it's a great and relevant story. I couldn't help thinking that a re-make is in order, perhaps centered around a character named Glenn Gantry.
Yep. do check out the video I linked to above - it beautifully brings the Glenn Beck paranoid ranting televangelist thing full circle.
(And TNC -- sorry to keep promoting an old Talking Heads movie so much, but it's really not off-topic -- the parallels are just too cool and spooky to pass up. I'll stop now, I promise.)
Swaggert is a master and multi-talented showman compared to Beck. Springsteen used to watch Swaggert for the stagecraft - as suggested by a video someone linked to here the other day, Beck is more like a Muppet run amok. Give Swaggert a little more credit....
I'm with metricpenny and the others -- Beck doesn't embarrass me just because we share an approximate skin color. He doesn't represent me or speak for me any more than any of the other nutjobs do, whether the nutjob in question in Rush or Hannity or Olbermann or that screechy insane Nancy woman on CNN.
TNC argued yesterday that blacks have some duty to slap down Mos Def. I don't get that argument at all. Mos Def embarrasses only himself, not all black people everywhere.
On the other hand -- I do think non-nutjob Christian leaders have a duty to disavow the Christian nutjobs, and that mainstream Muslim leaders should condemn the jihadists, and so on. Not sure why race is different than religion. Maybe because you get to pick your religion, but not your race. I dunno. But I see it differently.
Not slap down, but maybe challenge him to step his game up. And not Blacks in general, but an erudite elder like a Cornell West, who is friendly enough with the hip-hop generation to do records with them.
Why should I be embarrassed by this ignorant twat? I'm not the one spewing foolish nonsense, he is.
Oh my gosh, I just actually watched this. The dime iconography is HILARIOUS. Yes, that bundle of sticks on the dime is the Roman fasces, which was used as a symbol of unity, and was the official staff of the lictors, a kind of civil servant charged with looking out for the safety of the Roman magistrates.
The TERM "fasces" is the etymological source of the WORD "fascism"--both because Mussolini's Fascists were constantly looking backward to evoke ancient Rome and because that notion of strength through conformity is a keynote of small-f fascism--but it is not "the symbol of fascism." What's more, you can see fasces as an architectural element in turn-of-the-century buildings all over this country (there are probably hundreds of them right here in NYC, usually framing doorways), because they looked nice and classical. What's even MORE, the argument could be made that the fasces are equivalent to that bundle of unbroken sticks that every schoolchild is taught was the metaphor for the unity of the original Thirteen States.
So the notion that the image of the fasces on the Mercury dime is some sort of indicator of incipient fascism is ludicrous. That we continually produce demagogues like Glenn Beck is a far more convincing argument for a fascist tendency in the American spirit.
Insightful! Reminds me of the nutcases discussing the Freemason symbolism on the dollar bill....hilariously funny to watch.
Just to add one minor point. The Mercury Dime was created in 1916, which was a few years BEFORE Mussolini's Fascist Party in Italy (which was created in the aftermath of WWI).
I think Beck is rapidly catapaulting himself into the category of "low hanging fruit." Along with most of the GOP. Right now I'm actually more concerned about getting Obama's budget passed without getting sandbagged by Evan Bayh & Friends...
First time poster, but I've been reading your blog for a few months.
I have watched the full segment with Mos Def on Bill Maher and I have read the comments here and in the previous post, yet I still do not understand these allegations of paranoia on Mos Def's part. Nor do I understand the glee with which you lot continue to bash him.
Perhaps his delivery could have been a bit more eloquent (take the bass out?), but I found the content to be of considerable merit as a Black American who was born and reared in the South, later educated in the United Kingdom, married to an Egyptian and exceedingly well-traveled. I started out rooted in the typical southern black experience, was transplanted to a culture of class warfare in the UK where my experience as an African American paled in comparison to what it meant as a black foreigner living in Oxford, to a Christian married to an Arab Muslim in the post-9/11 world.
Re: Bin Laden. Over the years, there have been several credible reports that he is in fact dead. And if he is not dead, then one would need to consider his waning influence in the Middle East. Bin Laden has never had a more influential position than that of the neo-conservative's puppet. It is without question that he has very little influence in the Arab world (due in no small part to the fact that most Arabs are convinced that he is dead). I am not suggesting that there aren't any rogue factions out there (who just happen to be Islamists) who pose a danger to America, but they are hardly lurking around the corner.
I support Mos Def's overall message, America needs to look inward and sort itself, thus leaving the Arab world in peace.
Hummmmmmmm,
Bin Laden may or may not be dead but that doesn't change much; at this point he is personally besides the point. The larger Salafist movement he belongs (or belonged) to and the various imams around the world who adhere to and preach this virulent stream of "Koran based religion" (to call it Islam is practically an insult to Islam itself) is very real, has millions of adherents world wide and a large body of people who take a neutral position towards their social, political and military objectives and activities.
Mos came off as ignorant because under the street wisdom of not trusting "the man" he automatically gave the Salafists a moral free pass. That's why Rushdie and Hitchen's had a fit. Mos wasn't even aware of his own moral blindness. It was cringe worthy.
I find it fascinating given your wife's background that you don't have a more complicated take on this. Mos' view was ok? Really?
Northern,
I find it fascinating how rude you just sounded. But I guess people who judge people on their 'ignorance' can't afford to give any body a free pass.
..I apologize...that was rude too.
Anyway..I am in no way thinking that I think FanoftheRadio's opinion as ignorant. Hardly. I am of the opinion that Americans for some reason are really apt to believe our news as gospel instead of being open to all of the information that is out there as well. For someone who is so bent on criticizing Mos for not trusting all info given to him, why is it so hard to be open-minded about getting information from someone who might have better knowledge than we do due to first hand experience?
Fan..I admit, I don't know enough about this subject to agree or disagree with what you say, but I appreciate you taking the time to post and sharing your opinion with us.
I didn't think of FOTRD comment as being "ignorant".
I thought he might be holding back and wanted to give him a chance to expand his idea.
I'm sorry but it does amaze me that someone with familial links through marriage to Egypt, the country that gave birth to the Ikhwanul Muslimeen, Hassan el Bana, and Sayyed Qutb doesn't have more to say on this topic either as a M brotherhood supporter, neutral bystander or opponent.
Once you know they exist and what they believe you tend to have an opinion about them.
I had never seen Glen Beck before but now that I have I am not impressed. Except with his usage of props, of course.
What gets lost in this, as with the MSNBC rantings of Olberman and Mathews, is that this is how people expect to get their news. Props, shouting, bias disguised as fairness(Beck trying to co-opt liberals in his hysteria is a howler even by Fox News standards). Meanwhile, CNN--sans Lou Dobbs--is easily the fairest of the cable news stations. But it's boring. I live in Chicago, where both major newspapers are in bankruptcy, and however we feel about print medias myriad mistakes, we are going to be in a scary place if they end up gone simply because of the alternatives.
As an african i was insulted to see that the new face of Fascism in America is Ben Bernake! Ben Bernake?? WTF?? I would never goosestep behimng him. I want Barack Hussein Obama as the face and leader of the new fascism, that would be someone i would gladly pimp-walk-goosesetp behind, and i won't use a brown shirt, but a leopard print shirt with the green,black and red!
In TNC's original post he mentioned Cornel West's reluctance to correct Mos Def's assertions on about 9/11, and that people are generally hesitant to challenge the conspiracies that are often present in the conscious community.
TNC then follows up with this post highlighting the fact that there are also whites that say crazy things too. Which is true. However, there is no reluctance on the part of people like Stewart, Colbert, and Letterman to thoroughly mock people like Beck, Hannity, O'reilly, and Rep. Bachmann. Contrast this West's handling of Mos Def's statements. He refused to challenge his beliefs.
I think that many black academics, and some members of the black middle class are reluctant to criticise and confront the "conscious community" and "ghetto philosophers" for fear of coming off as Buppies who are out of touch, and condescending towards poorer blacks who are less educated.
I didnt read "bashing" in Coates' comments. Seems like he was pretty conflicted about Mos and about the JR Rogers / Dr. Ben school of Afrocentric, alt-academic school of Af. Am scholarship: recognizing their importance in his own growth, but their own limits re: rigorous scholarship and debate.
Sorry this is in response to FanOfTheRadio, dunno why I replied here.
Mos Def was correct to note that the federal govt has ignored and neglected its responsibilty towards New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina.
Def was correct to point out that many times law enforcement has abused its authority by harrassing and persecuting African American activists.
Def is dead wrong and incredibly irresponsible to dismiss the genuine threat posed by Al Qaeda.
Glenn Beck is a malignant media carnogen and a raging maniac who should be placed in a straitjacket and given electro-shock therapy.
I condemn Mos Def's ignorance about Al Qaeda and I condemn Glenn Beck's ignorance about everything.
I condemn Glenn Beck not as a white person, but as a human being.
I also condemn the ignorance, insanity, and hate-mongering of Michelle Bachman, Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Joe the Pumber Wurtzelbacher, Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter, Laura Ingraham, Glenn Reynolds, Joe Scarborough, and Greta Van Susteren.
"Hate-mongering"? Do you have examples of, say, Greta Van Susteren's hate-mongering? Or are you pulling this out of your hat, like Dan W's claim above that Glenn Beck was a bigot.
All of the people I listed make statements reflecting various combinations of ignorance, insanity, and hate-mongering.
I didn't mean to imply that Beck, Van Susteren, etc use rhetoric reflecting all 3 things all of the time.
Greta Van Susteren isn't a hate monger, she's just a garden variety horse's rear-end.
Van Susteren is incredibly dishonest and unprofessional for not disclosing the fact that her husband has been advising Sarah Palin while she has conducted countless suck-up interviews with the prom queen governor.
Wow, at least you're not consistently dragging the atlantic through your racial, mud-stained lenses.
I think his appearance should be put into more context before jumping all over him.
Mos Def was the only man at the table that was willing to admit the hypocrisy involved in our nuclear policy. That the US can have nukes and other nations cannot impedes our ability to conduct diplomatic relations honestly and productively. He called for voluntary disarmament. Of the four at the table, he was the only one that was even capable of suggesting ways in which we might be able to develop a productive relationship with the Islamic world.
That he was quickly dismissed as a loon is not surprising, but it is important to understand what kind of loon. If he was playing the fool, it was the fool that speaks truths others refuse to admit.
Dear people.
The T.V., and producers are in the business of making money. They provide what people want, ENTERTAINMENT. Keith Olbermann is just as, if not more retarded than Hannity or O'Reilly who honestly should be stricken from the air...but people watch them and they make money.
1) Please stop buying into glorified telepoliticigists.
2) Please stop taking this seriously.
3) Please stop trying to defend people by virtue of anything.