The original Raekwon line is, of course, "All my Spanish niggers love us..." Man, The Atlantic is really mellowing my style. If I don't go on a
profanity-laced tirade in the next day or so, I might go into shock.
Anyway, it helps to live in New York to really get that Raekwon line. It really helps if you live in Harlem. It helps even more to read some Junot Diaz. I've talked about this before, but it bears repeating. Whenever I hear people talking that black vs. brown isht, I just roll my eyes, not because I believe in rainbows, but because I know that how the Jamaicans relate to the Dominicans, how the Senegalese relate to the Puerto-Ricans, and how my non-pedigree having black-ass (all I've got is slavery, and the Eastern Shore of Murlin') relates to is all can't really be understood via a CNN segment.
Furthermore that relationship is different than the relationship between the Mexican-Americans and the blacks in Texas, the Cubans and the Haitians in Florida, the Salvadoreans and the blacks in D.C. It's just different wherever you are--and it's kind of criminal to throw it all under the rubric of black vs. brown. That's a constant theme on this blog. When it's no longer happening, I think I'll retire to Vail, Colorado. Or maybe just Humboldt Park.
This rambling missive was prompted by long-time poster, and if I recall right, Dallas Cowboys fan, Keith, noting the lack of love for the brown. I was gonna just post this old Mellow Man Ace joint. It's so weird. This song came out when I was 14, in West Baltimore, where the Puerto-Rican population was, in those days, minimal. I remember thinking, "Why is this black guy speaking Spanish?"
Amazing to think about that now. The other day, Kenyatta and me took my son to one of his pre-season games (best defensive end on the field, Coach told him) and we gave a ride to one of the parents and an assistant coach. They're both dating, and both Puerto-Rican--though of different class background. Moreover, the Coach, who knows Harlem and was all hood (in a good way) could pass for white. The parent, who'd been raised around white people most of her life, was darker than many of my relatives.
But they both talked about race as black people. No, that doesn't quite get it--they talked about race the way a cousin may talk about your family, as opposed to an utter stranger. That still doesn't get it. I can't really explain how Puerto-Ricans and Dominicans here relate to blacks and blackness. It really is fascinating. Someone with deeper roots will have to break it down. I think it has to do with proximity. I can't think of another group that's lived so closely to African-Americans, for such a long time. Harlem is their's too. Hell it's their's more than mine.
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Copyright © 2009 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.
"Whenever I hear people talking that black vs. brown isht, I just roll my eyes, not because I believe in rainbows, but because I know that how the Jamaicans relate to the Dominicans, how the Senegalese relate to the Puerto-Ricans, and how my non-pedigree having black-ass (all I've got is slavery, and the Eastern Shore of Murlin') relates to is all can't really be understood via a CNN segment."
Back in my Army Reserve days, I remember one of the Puerto Ricans (a New York City cop in his day job, like many of the guys in the unit) pulling me into the bathroom to tell me a joke about Dominicans (if memory serves, this cop worked in Washington Heights) -- but not before checking to see if the bathroom was a Dominican-free zone at the time. It had never occurred to me before then that a Puerto Rican might have contempt for Dominicans.
Well...it's definitly out there...and this doesn't just pertain to inter-latino relations..this has implications all around the world. People, for the most part are racist on some level...i have friends from ethiopia who's parents deride people from gambia and such...this isn't new. It's just that it's not discussed...it's not "nice" to say that people who've endured shit for a long time are human enough to have these emotions. I don't care for them, and i've yet to see a person from my generation who actually adresses these issues the way that their parents do. Ok, i have, but that's not the point.
Totally, Puerto Ricans contend that Dominican migration to the US started with Dominicans sneaking into Puerto Rico and then pretending to Puerto Rican in order to gain access to the US and in turn given Ricans a bad name.
Dominicans on the other hand are a fiercely independent people since The Trinitaria freed the country from Haitian rule and so look down on Puerto Ricans for having sold their country to the United States. There is a slur aimed at PRs by Dominicans "vende patria" (sold your country)
That reminds me of this classic slam from The Onion.
and don't underestimate hating between haitians and dominicans...
Since you brought it up, a thought about Dominicans versus Haitians. Since they both share the same island, and Haiti is the absolute poorest and most miserable country in the hemisphere, while D.R. is (while poor by international standards) far better off, that affects perceptions. This reminds me of something a Dominican once told me.
At an old job, a client of mine was engaged to this really beautiful girl with black hair and olive skin. Turned out she was Dominican. He brought her with him on a corporate shindig I invited him to once, and over drinks at the Four Seasons or somewhere, his fiancee started talking about life in North Jersey versus in her home country. One of the things that amazed her were the huge geese we have walking around our parks, golf courses, etc. -- big 20-30 lb birds. She said that if there were a bird like that in D.R. a Haitian would eat it, and she mentioned how one of her pets was eaten by a Haitian.
"And don't underestimate hating between haitians and dominicans"
In my experience, I'd say that hatred runs deeper than the hate between Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. I remember my parents and relatives saying that my brother was getting 'dark as a Haitian' from being out too much in the sun. At the same time, both sides point to history in order to justify the hatred.
Dominicans point to the 19th century, when Haiti ruled over Dominican Republic. Haitians, for their part, point to a massacre in the 1930s authorized by Trujillo. It's said that around this time Trujillo asked people to say the word "perejil" (parsley) and those that had trouble with the "r" and "j" were ruled to be Haitian, and killed. For those interested, the NYT did a good piece a while back about the current migration of Haitians to Dominican Republic: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/27/world/americas/27migration.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1
Currently, the lack of stability in Haiti has forced many Haitians to migrate to the Dominican Republic in search of work, and on the Dominican there have been definite cases of abuses and exploitation, particularly in the areas of agriculture and construction. In addition, Haitians born in Dominican Republic have faced discrimination On the other hand, DR isn't a wealthy nation, and many feel that a lot has already been done to support Haitian migrants, and that the pressure that comes from the outside is aimed at (I kid you not) getting the island of Hispaniola to be united as one nation.
All of which is to say that there's a lot of history behind the hatred that doesn't include household pets.
this is hilarious. i have been reading this blog for a while, and while everything, except for the sports talks usually gets me off--this is the only thing that made me sign up, just so i can leave a comment on how hilarious i find it.
i love it. i am Jamaican, and i wasn't too aware of all the back and forth between black peoples, until i went to the Bahamas and heard Haitian jokes. funny stuff.
since then i've realized that my ignorance was due to the fact that Jamaicans are universally reviled by all west indians, or Caribbean peoples. oh yeah and i went to France one summer and i got so much play from the french boys (blacks) because i was Jamaica. apparently Jamaicans girls have sexpot reps around the world.
@lilypad
well...with the risk of sounding like an ass...dutty wine did change things...
"theirs", not "there's"
Are you new here? Ta-Nehisi said to e-mail him the grammar corrections, not to make them in the comment threads.
Sorry, yes, I'm new.
A great ethnography of Puerto Rican drug dealers in East Harlem, In Search of Respect by Phillipe Bourgeois contains an excellent moment. Phillipe, the anthropologist, is talking to Primo and Caesar, the Puerto Rican drug dealers.
Caesar: This whole block is getting to be fuckin’ full of a lotta different types of races. And they be like a whole bunch of them living all crazy-line in one crib. Especially the Africans—those people look dirty to me.
Primo: They treat you like shit, and they live better than us.
Caesar: They look like unclean people for some reason.
Phillipe: Aw, come on!
Caesar: They really black. Like real dark black. They look dirty to me. They not the same kind of blacks as the Americans that be around here. They’re like a real hard-core suntan black.
Primo: And then there’s the Dominicans.
Phillipe: Man! You guys should read my book about how stupid it is for poor people to be racist against each other. Let me go get it and read out loud—It’s about a plantation in Costa Rica where blacks and Latinos be riffin’ at each other. The companies love it; they just laugh all the way to the bank.
Caesar:[Ignoring my comment] It’s like Dominicans who are most fucked up. They come in and they either sell drugs or buy a store. I hate Dominicans the most man.
This is such a great moment of the kind of dynamics that TNC is talking about playing themselves out, while a man who is dedicating his life to understanding such things just can't get what is going on. What a gem.
"When it's no longer happening, I think I'll retire to Vale, Colorado. Or maybe just Humboldt Park."
Thankfully you'll never have to consider a move to Vail, since this will never stop happening.
Fixt. And you never know.
Your West Coast readers are feeling left out. Black versus Brown, as you say, takes on a whole different meaning in LA than in NYC. I live in Harlem now but grew up in Northern California and lived and worked in Long Beach. I don't even think about Dominicans and Puerto Ricans when I think about "Brown."
It's all stupid, really. But my reaction is just that this really does mean a whole different thing on the West Coast.
Right. That was the point:
I mentioned Houston, Chicago, Miami, NYC and Baltimore. Doesn't it follow that the same would hold for L.A.?
Well, being from NorCal, when I think of brown, I actually think of Filipinos.
Of course. Who said a reader's comments had to be original? I just wanted a direct shout. Black v. brown makes me think of Mexican pride rallies as well as race riots in LA. I see from the thread all the other things people think of.
You know, on second thought, my last two posts were lazy. Here's the thing. Yes, many Americans lump Latinos in a way that makes no sense. But I don't hear a lot of them talking about "black versus brown" in a general sense. I heard, during the election, that Latinos/Hispanics wouldn't vote for a black man. And like you've pointed out, that's stupid talk. But to me that's different than "black v. brown," and my thinking is that it conjures up a different meaning out West. Like I said, that makes me think of race riots in LA. If you're hearing something else about "black versus brown," but if so, it's helpful to have a link. At the same time, this is mucha do about nothing. Semantics, and maybe semantics in a way that doesn't matter. I think I get the point.
I think your point about Dominicans and Puerto Ricans talking about blackness has a lot to do with where they live, but it also has to do with African ancestry. It's the one drop rule, no matter where you're from. They're all black in the eyes of those who don't care to distinguish. And so in that sense it's not surprising that they, unlike Mexicans and Central Americans, tend to quickly begin identifying as black once they immigrate. It's not just that they've lived around African-Americans for so long. It's that they are. Even, in the case of your son's coach, if they don't appear so.
I see that The Mind Frame started a thread on that topic below.
Getting back to brown...it makes me think of August 29, 1970. Or "Lighter Shade of Brown," from back in the day. Or the Brown Berets.
I agree, the farther west you go, the different the meaning becomes. Even among hispanics the divide can be parsed even further. Whether you are talking about chicanos, atzlans, tejanos, etc...it's all derived from region.
A personal anecdote. My wife and I celebrated our wedding night at a Texas Ranger game. We rented a hotel room right by the stadium, where the visiting teams roomed and where some of the Rangers lived during the season. We go to the bar, and a Dominican pitcher from the Rangers was there, and me being a homer I started up a converstaion with the dude. He was pretty cool, and he asked if I was mexican, and I responded with, "I'm Tejano". He had a puzzled look on his face, and I felt weird having never refered to myself that way. I guess subconsciously I wanted him to know that I was from Texas, and my roots go back to when Texas was Mexico and not just Mexican-American.I have never felt the need to do that, and wonder if it was because I was talking to someone from the Dominican Republic who looked like Masta Ace that I felt the need to disinguish myself. Society considers us both hispanic. Then again we were at the bar, and it could have been the E&J talking...
Wow...if I could summon my inner Yoda, humbled am I.
I could not agree more, when all the browns won't vote for black talk was humming around during the election, I was throwing things at the tube. Hispanic is such a broad term, encompassing such diverse cultures from so many regions of this country it is impossible to simplify them in a monolithic voting block. Being from Dallas, I have always been fascinated by the black-brown relationship. I remember growing up, resenting the fact that my choices for identification were white, black, or other in a country where my ancestory can be traced to the region I lived in since the ice melted...yet I was an other...really? I remember my dad telling stories of how when he grew up in Dallas, "no colored allowed" meant him too. Yet, there was tension between these two groups, black-brown, that I never quite understood. It seemed to hit its tipping point in the early 90's, and I think the rise of gang violence had tons to do with it, but I could never understand why two races who had different experiences but similiar struggles could never get on the same page.
Anyway, I am glad to say that it appears the relationship back home seems to be getting better. I don't know if its a generational thing, or the media's demonization of a race of people causing a little sympathy from this country's previous scapegoat for our ill's. What ever the case, thanks for the love.
And now, a little LSOB:
http://new.music.yahoo.com/videos/ALighterShadeOfBrown/On-A-Sunday-Afternoon--2143950
Maybe that's where Kinski got the title for their track "Hot Stenographer" from. 'Cause, damn...
Nice post. CNN can't possible get it, its not neat and tidy enough to run a focus group or survey of 50 people against. I grew up in NYC all my life and it's hard to explain. Forget about black vs. brown that's way to big a subset. Try Dominican's from the Heights vs. El Barrio P.R.s versus Cubans from High Bridge vs. Blacks from the Bridge Apartments. Check that, try Domincan's from El Capital vs. El Cibao or Flatbush Hatian and Harlem Black Americans.
It's insane--and so beautiful.
First time poster, long time reader with two cents to add:
I was born in the Dominican Republic and moved to NYC when I was 12. I think one of the things that was key for me was getting into Hip-Hop even when I didn't know any English. Two songs, "Ego Trip" by De La and "Scenario" by ATCQ hooked me in. I never really got any grief about being a Platano (not knowing English was another matter) but one thing I think it's important is the fact that a lot of times, we look alike. I can pass for high yella until I open my mouth and my accent comes out. My brother is darker than me and if it wasn't for our names, folks would mark us as black** I think that's one of the difference between NY and other places in the Northeast and the West Coast is that here, I fit the phenotype. I thought about moving out west and lived there for a bit to make the choice but I couldn't pull the trigger. Folks didn't know what to do with me; blacks were confused because I was Latino but I wasn't Mexican or Central American, Latinos were confused because I kinda sorta looked Latino but I wasn't black either. That was one of the biggest reasons for me to stay out East. Besides, who wants to buy plantains by the pound?
I think it might be a caribbean thing, an island thing but there's a sense of kinship there that I don't see in other places. Seeing a black guy dance bachata is not surprising anymore. My Trini friends can appreciate a good sancocho.
**One point of contention that I do get into sometimes is the definition of the word "black". Some folks claim that it only applies to African Americans because their special history and culture. I claim that it applies to anyone from the diaspora if they so choose.
Interesting how the word "black" doesn't always have the same baggage elsewhere that it does here. A few years ago, a friend and I were at an Internet cafe in Rio de Janeiro. The place was owned by a white or whitish woman, and she had a black waitress. My friend was asking for a plate of something in his mangled Portuguese, and accidentally used the word preto ("black") instead of prato ("plate"). The waitress corrected him gently, pointing to her own skin, by way of example, while saying preto. There was no anger or defensiveness, it was just matter of fact: that's a plate and I'm black.
I think the baggage is different, but the color consciousness remains about the same. I'd say Brazilians and Caribbeans (both Spanish and English speaking) have a lot of words to describe a person's skin tone that in the US, would just be lumped as black. (Interestingly enough, I think Junot Díaz opens his book 'The Brief Wonderous Life of Oscar Wao' with a poem by Derek Walcott that showcases this.) When I was living in Brazil, a friend of mine put it this way: "In the United States you have the 'one drop' rule: one drop of black blood makes you black. In Brazil, we have a 'one drop' rule, too: one drop of white blood makes you not black."
I think your Brazilian friend oversimplified his country's racial tableau a little bit there. Brazilians have word for what used to be called mulattoes here, pardos -- people of mixed black-white ancestry -- but they also have people who are unambiguously white and black, respectively, plus the largest ethnic Japanese population outside of Japan, to boot. I'm not sure exactly where Brazilians draw the line between black and pardo though -- the waitress I mentioned looked like an average African American, which is to say she looked like she had at least some white ancestry, and yet she call herself black.
It's a simple way of describing something rather complex. "Not black" opens up a whole can of worms, or rather terms: pardo, mulatta, quase branco, cafusa, caboclo. I also think the lack of defensiveness or bitterness in self-identifying as black may have to do with the black consciousness movement in Brazil. The line between pardo and preto and everything in between is generously drawn, I think, and every Brazilian you talk to will have a different idea of where that line is.
"One point of contention that I do get into sometimes is the definition of the word "black". Some folks claim that it only applies to African Americans because their special history and culture. I claim that it applies to anyone from the diaspora if they so choose."
That's interesting, and my former housemate agreed with you. She was Haitian, raised in Palo Alto, and did not like to be referred to as "African American" because for her, it wasn't an accurate description. She liked "black."
Remember that drama over Jennifer Lopez saying "nigga" in some song? I remember thinking, "dude, she's a PR from the Bronx," as if that was all that needed to be said. But I can see how that wouldn't be enough for those outside of NYC.
Well, I am a native born NYer and I recall being offended by J-lo's use of the term...also recall quite a few of my fellow NYC black brothers and sistas feeling the same offense. Frankly, the use of the term even by AF-Americans offend me, but I am doubly offended by a person outside of that group using the term -- Yes,and that would include PRicans, Dominicans, Mexicans, etc., etc.
I can't speak for Puerto Ricans in NYC--or all PRicans for that matter. I'm half-white, half-white Puerto Rican and lived there for six years. The racism is very real on La Isla as well. My grandparents are lifelong Democrats and still don't really like Obama explicitly because he's black. They talk up their Spanish heritage constantly (even though my great-great-grandfather was black) and rag on their Dominican housekeepers. My understanding of the roots of it is that before the 1950s, Puerto Rico was poor as shit and the Dominican Republic was somewhat less poor. Puerto Ricans would go to the DR to work as migrant works and housekeepers and nannies and whatnot. It was embarrassing. Then came Eisenhower's Operation Boot Strap and Puerto Ricans’ quality of living pulled way ahead of the DR, and the flow of migration reversed. Now, they take every opportunity to mock the Dominicans because they want to separate themselves from them as much as possible since they were once in that situation themselves. And Dominicans are “black.” It’s social climbing. Obviously this is an oversimplification and not all Puerto Ricans are anti-Dominican-and-black racists, but that’s how it’s always been how the phenomenon was explained to me. I have no idea what additional dimensions have arisen in New York—I’m from the Chi town myself (souf siiide, not Humboldt Park).
Last place I ever thought I would read an amazing essay on racism in the Spanish Caribbean was the NY Post:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/02152007/tempo/black_pride_tempo_tego_calderon.htm
Excerpt:
Tego Calderon was probably my fav. reggaeton rapper before this, but he cemented that rank after it.
Next up: Asians: not all the clone-like Democratic mathematicians!
You want a thread on the underachieving Asian groups (Hmongs, Cambodians, etc.?). Maybe the geniuses in Congress who set up our current immigration system just brought them in to make the rest of us feel better about getting lapped in math by the Koreans, Japanese, and Chinese.
Sure, let's hear it.
I'm sure you being in tongue-in-cheek, and likewise, I honestly think we Southeast Asians were allowed in [mind you, as long as we could make it to a refugee camp] out of the United States' guilt for losing the Vietnam War.
I guess all I have to say about this topic is this: how ridiculous is the thought that Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders could possibly be painted with the same broad brush? We are talking about a population that encompasses fourth and fifth generation Japanese and Chinese Americans to first generation Burmese to the Tongan families of Southern Cal.
I'm glad you mentioned this. I would roll out some stats but I don't have the time. I guess folks could do some reading on the Angry Asian Man blog?
Junot. It's not grammar, it's someone's name.
I loved this post and this kind of dynamic goes on everywhere. Here in Europe, Muslims play an equivalent role to Hispanics in the us, (although there is perhaps more islamophobia than anti-Hispanic sentiment). Anyway, one group that's often considered problematic and does particularly poorly on many indicators for a variety of reasons is Somalis.
Anyway, I remember reading an article about Somali immigrants and one in particular was complaining about how Somalis are unfairly stereotyped. After a long rant, he finished off with "It's the Kurds you have to look out for all, they're all rapists."
It's just one of those things that make you go hmmmm.
Sorry, but im laughin my ass of...that's just hilarious. what country are we talking about?
This was in Norway, although I'm sure you could find similar stories elsewhere
Speaking of Somalis, did you see the recent South Park episode where Cartman, with visions of treasure chests and Caribbean lagoons in mind, goes to Somalia to become a pirate? He gets there and says something like, "Where are the pirates? All I see is a bunch of black people".
Hah, South Park can be incredibly intelligent at times
haha...ok...swede here...the kurdish anectode was fucking hilarious...can't come to think of anything off the top of my head though...
Back when I was a kid in Brooklyn(Flatbush/early 80's) it seemed everybody Hispanic was Puerto Rican, but that was probably just my ignorant ass being stupid. There were the West Indians(Jamaicans, Trinis, Bajans) that everybody thought was cool because they were foreign but not really since they spoke English. Now my people, the Haitians, folks (talking about the native born blacks in the neighborhood) thought were weird b/c they spoke a foreign language. The knock against Dominicans were that no matter how dark he was a Dominican wouldn't say that he was black. Because in the DR black meant Haitian.
Really don't remember any beefs b/n Haitian and Dominican kids in NYC. Probably b/c back then most Dominicans were way the fuck up in the Heights while we were in Flatbush and Canarsie. Any blood feud that you've got to take two trains to get to isn't worth having. I'm not even sure I knew Dominicans existed here. Thought the Dominican/Haitian beef was an old country thing. When we moved to Miami(yes, I am typical Haitian Am.) things were more tribal but my mom's favorite people on the block were the Dominicans. Shit why shouldn't they, they eat the same type of food and listen to similar music.
I remember one time when I was in law school my school was having some festival that I helped sneak in some students from another school. Found out halfway through the night that he was Dominican, so I told him that I was Haitian. We'd spent half the night hanging out and partying. So I something like "Hey were cousins" or something to that affect. This was in middle of the south and I hadn't seen another Islanders in years, so I thought it was cool that a Dominican and Haitian could be having a good time in Dixie. Dude gave me a weird look and a "this Haitian has crossed the line" vibe.
total threadjack here, but you mention your son playing football. Are you concerned about injuries? I have read about all the concussions suffered by children playing football. Wasn't an issue with my son as he was way too small for f-ball, but it doesn't seem like it's worth it to chance injury.
Late to the conversation, but here's my $0.02. The whole topic of black and brown is really interesting (and frankly confusing) to me because I grew up in a mid-sized Midwestern city that was pretty much 87% white, 10% black, and 3% everything else. Seriously, it wasn't until I moved to the East Coast for college that I realized that not all black people are born and bred black American. As far as distinctions among Latino people, my early understanding amounted to: "what?". Living in MA and later in NY has definitely opened my eyes to the variety of black and brown. Just something to keep in mind, there are a lot of people (particularly in the Midwest and outside of large metro areas) for whom black vs. Jamaican, Dominican vs. Hatian, Puerto Rican vs. black doesn't mean anything to them because they don't have direct experience with most of the groups.
@ lilypad
a compliment i will cherish till the rest of my days
"him kinda cute, but in bed i'd crush him between me legs" dancehall off bayform road, Kingston 1993
and she wasn't lying either
I grew up in Washington Heights, still live there. It was pretty confusing getting a handle on the vast diversity of where all my schoolmates came from and what that meant and all. But most bewildering was the animosity between the Puerto Ricans and the Dominicans, when a lot of the the time I couldn't even make out whether someone was talking about their home in "PR" or "DR".
Also, somewhat relatedly, it has always been amusing to me that the writer/director/former star of In The Heights, Lin-Manuel, is Puerto Rican, plays a Dominican bodega owner, and in real life the store at that location is run by Middle-Easterners.
I'm a little surprised I seem to be the first to point out that while such interactions illuminate the beauty of diversity perhaps just as importantly it showcases just how virulent prejudice is in the global community.
Charting the complex interplay of our collective madness on issues of race can be amusing but counting the costs can certainly give one pause.
I don't think you are. It's actually all through this thread. See Dave's point about PR vs. Dominican, or the Hatian vs. Dominican comments, or Katie's comments about how race plays out in Puerto Rico.
As for the costs, people are human, and humans are prejudice and murderous. We kill each over differing interpretations of rocks. I'm not sure why it'd be any different when it comes to ethnicity and race.
If you scroll through the comments, I think you see a pretty complete discussions. Some of it's cool. Some of it, not so much.
True, it appears I overlooked some comments.
I suppose I was focused on what struck me as the complacency of some of the comments though of course I could simply be off base here.
It seems to me though that we need to at least attempt a clear distinction between the friendly ribbing between different factions, which always goes on in any community and the more divisive prejudices that often get lumped in.
Fair enough. I don't mean to brush it aside.
I do have to say that, having grown up in L.A., when I visited New York for the first time ten years ago and heard black people speaking Spanish, there was some cognitive dissonance there. I mean, I'm a baseball fan and so I'd seen plenty of Spanish-speaking blacks on TV, but I'd never seen one in person before. And I didn't grow up in lily-white suburb or anything; I grew up reasonably close to Central Long Beach and was in high school with Snoop Dogg.
I'm a young Dominican writer (both parents Dominican) who is of African descent. I've lived in Wash Heights all my life and my moms side if European descent and Dad African. Trust, even I have identity issues to this day on this whole subject.
www.liveabovemediocrity.com
(Just skimmed the comments so forgive my redundancy.) Straight co-sign this one.
There is also the nationalist effect across race. I was born and spent my childhood in East Flatbush, Brooklyn. I never met an black person not decended from immigrants from the West Indies. My father is Trini and mother is Vincie. I used to hear smack talk about Jamaicans, Haitians, etc., but never seemed to stop the personal one-on-one friendships.
Even more complex is the fact that my Mom can pass for white with her straight black hair, and she would list herself as black on employment forms. Funny (or not) anecdote: a black woman once caught that and told her to mark white so that she could get a better shot at jobs, etc.
So keep those eyes-rollin'.
Oh, one other thing. In NY, I never thought twice about the n-bomb being dropped by a spanish cat mostly because I saw them as "us." In fact the lines were often blurred. I remember one funny ass cat who would be "That nigga...." this and " That nigga..." that about Boriquas AND black folk with no hesitation. Now, if he called himself a brother THAT would have felt weird.