I don't have much to say about this Palin-Letterman silliness. That said, it's striking to see someone who would have been a step away from being leader of the free world, feuding with a talk-show host. Sarah Palin is in tenacious possession of a small mind. Whatever you think of John McCain, remember that he was willing to countenance her as leader of the free world. I don't think we have to worry about that now. I can't see her getting out of a GOP primary.
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I'm no fan of Palin, but wasn't the President's press secretary "feuding with a talk show host" a few weeks ago in the White House briefing room? I would also not underestimate the ability of the non-D.C. Republican base to shock and amaze by nominating her. The love her act.
Yes, over the President's mortgage plan, not jokes about Eliot Spitzer and Alex Rodriguez. And whatshisface (Santelli?) is not supposed to be a comedian.
I was thinking about Limbaugh.
Her act is fast becoming the Governor's version of some dysfunctional family reality show you'd expect to see on E! Her oldest daughter (unwed, teen mom) is making the talk show "tour of shame", the "mother-in-law" is facing felony drug charges - this kind of crap is entertaining if we're watching the usual panty-free celebutard, not a prospective Presidential candidate.
Key word: Press Secretary, not POTUS himself.
Thats the kind of lightwork a sensible politician would delegate.
Then again, Palin is playing to a non-sensible base, so diff. rules?
She charged women for their own rape kits, and Letterman's the misogynist? Yeah, ok.
Sarah, if you're reading this (yeah, right) the rest of us are more concerned with a possible revolution in a powerful Middle-Eastern country. Talk about "pretty pathetic."
The sentence "Sarah Palin is in tenacious possession of a small mind" is the rhetorical equivalent of a banana. Tastes good at first but the aftertaste is much bitter.
Lol. I assume in context that you mean much "better" and that that was one of the rare typos that completely reverses the meaning of a sentence. For whatever reason, I always find it tremendously amusing when that happens.
I hope that was a typo! Bananas are delicious.
Banana peels are bitter. Maybe theguy11 meant the peels.
If Palin makes it out of the GOP primary, then (1) it will confirm the GOP's demise; (2) may pave the way for a new, more moderate third party; and (3) we might as well give Obama a crown and call it a day.
We need at least ONE competent opposition party to make our system of governance work. Right now, the GOP is about 1/5th of a competent party. It's a shame really, I don't really want the Democratic party running rampant and being able to do whatever the heck they want, but at the rate the GOP is going, I can't help but see that down the line.
I think Palin has taken a page out of Obama's playbook....nurturing a fight with a entertainer figure in order to insinuate powerful forces are attacking. In Barack's case, it's been Limbaugh.
That said, it's interesting to see people downplay a statutory rape joke just because the target was the daughter of a Republican. I expect sometime in the next four years some outrage over a joke about Malia Obama getting pregnant and being a crack ho. When that comes, remember David Letterman set the precedent.
I think Palin has taken a page out of Obama's playbook....nurturing a fight with a entertainer figure in order to insinuate powerful forces are attacking. In Barack's case, it's been Limbaugh.
But that is the precise opposite of what Obama was doing. He pointed to Limbaugh to diminish the seriousness of his opposition. The point, a pretty accurate one IMO, was that this is what the GOP had been reduced to, not that Limbaugh needed to be seriously engaged.
I expect sometime in the next four years some outrage over a joke about Malia Obama getting pregnant and being a crack ho.
When that happens, and given the proclivities of RW talk radio I would be surprised if it hadn't already, I feel confident that Obama will not lower himself to engage with such commentary directly. That is because people who are serious about governing anything don't engage in public feuds with provocateurs.
When that comes, remember David Letterman set the precedent.
Not sure what precedent you mean but if it involves unkind commentary about Presidential family, then one would have to go back to before Amy Carter to break any new ground there. For certain, one would have to go back further then Limbaugh's reference to Chelsea as the "family dog" or McCain's joke about why Chelsea was so ugly.
You make a very good point. Letterman's joke, IMO, does cross the line of good taste...Though not on the same level of offensive as Imus's nappy-headed ho's skit, this joke should not just be swept under the rug because it is directed at a a somewhat unpopular former Republican Presidential candidate. Sexual jokes about minors should always be off-limits.
Speaking of offensive jokes, Rusty Depass, a promient South Carolina Republican, compared the First Lady to an escaped gorilla. Commenting on a report about a gorilla escape at a zoo in Columbia, S.C., Frdiay, Depass wrote, "I'm sure it's just one of Michelle's ancestors -- probably harmless." Yes, this is very amusing.
It crosses the line of good taste, but it was not a statutory rape joke--it was a joke in poor taste, aimed at Bristol Palin (if you're paid to appear on the cover of People, you're a public figure) and Rodriguez. The joke doesn't make sense if it's about a daughter who didn't get pregnant. I don't think the joke is funny, but it's not aimed at the 14 year old or the 8 year old or the baby.
Trying to put myself in Palin's shoes--if Dave told a joke referencing my daughter, who is 13, when he meant my niece, who is 20--I experience extreme squickiness. Enough that I would issue a statement along the lines of "I am very disappointed that Mr. Letterman would reference my 13-year old daughter in this way. She is not a public figure." Even variations on "and didn't deserve to have Dave rif on his ideas about her in regards to anyone's sex life" etc that I originally appended to that just don't work with the quiet dignity, I won't be discussing her, tone that needs to be conveyed.
It's engaging in an ongoing fued, reminiscent of this weekend's "I ain't no punk" post, that makes my sympathy for Palin run out. The governor of any state should have more important things to do than fuss about insults hurled by comedians. The mother of any child ought to defend that child's privacy by showing some class and not trying to invent statutory rape jokes where abstinence only jokes are meant.
So condemn Dave, sure. I gather his apology was not what it could have been. But don't keep ginning up the outrage as though you'll take any headlines you can get.
a statutory rape joke
Sleight of hand. Letterman was NOT talking about a minor. He was clearly was talking about the 18-year-old, who chose to make her sex life a topic of public discussion by getting paid to go on tour and talk about her own experiences as an unwed mother.
Limbaugh=Letterman is a false equivalency. One is a self-effacing, crude, silly comedian, the other is a political demagogue hell-bent on creating actual unrest. Entertainer my ass.
"it's interesting" to see you use the same hackneyed 'what-could-this-possibly-mean' phrase "it's interesting" as every hack on Fox News. I'm not really saying anything by it, but yunno, 'it's interesting'. Or at least 'curious'. Maybe there's some talking points to follow? I'd be curious to find out.
"it's interesting to see people downplay a statutory rape joke"
It would be interesting to know when you stopped beating your wife.
"just because the target was the daughter of a Republican." Oh is that the reason 'why'? It's amazing how you set up a strawman, and then just knock that fucker down. Amazing. And interesting.
"I expect sometime in the next four years some outrage over a joke about Malia Obama"
And by 'expect' I'd bet you mean 'tally'. Because after all, it's going to be more important to bring this incident up as a notch on a balance sheet, than to decry it on the principles that you supposedly uphold.
"... being a crack ho."
Oh, I'm not going to call you a racist, I'm just saying that it's interesting that you'd choose this term in particular.
I can see her getting out of the GOP primary, given the metamorphosis of the GOP into the Know-Nothing Party (literally and historically).
The only thing that might keep Palin from being the next GOP nominee is if Willow gets pregnant. Otherwise, she's in. They love her.
Palin is a shining example of the Republican party's confusion between the "real America" and the real voting America. To this group of strategists middle class America is a two sided affair: On one side is the urban and the academic elite, and on the other side is rural, honest and hardworking. This view draws no distinction between the carpenter and the 7-11 clerk, the salesman and the mechanic. The problem is that all these people see themselves as quite different. A skilled laborer really does not want to lumped with a wal mart clerk. Palin is tailor made for the lowest rungs of the white underclass, all tarted up and ready for the cover of
US magazine--problem is, these people tend not to vote. The elite of the Republican party has really made it pretty clear what it thinks of the working class by putting Palin into the conversation. Working class people just have different jobs, they are not stupid. When you get your oil changed on your BMW and salt in the occassional double negative or "ain't" into your speach, you just come accross as a bigger snob.
Working class people just have different jobs, they are not stupid.
This. The lack of respect on the right for the people they fetishize really amazes me at times.
I'm not sure that even what Gibbs was doing with Limbaugh didnt go a little too far but even still there's a few distinctions. Rightfully or not Limbaugh is hugely influential to the Rep party, and at least pretends to take his foolishness seriously. Letterman is none of those things. Not to mention having your press secretary make a few wise cracks is a far cry from this faux indignation tour she's on. She spent like 10 minutes on this on the Today show last week and I'm sitting there thinking don't you have state to run?
This episode has been like one of her sentences: running on and on without coming to a point.
And can we please not forget that their current leader (Limbaugh) once made some absolutely horrible jokes about Chelsea Clinton and no one in the GOP called him out on it. And Hillary did not hit the talk show circuit to defend her.
Palin is a reality show contestant, not a serious political candidate.
That she's even talked about is ridiculous.
The climate her and her ilk create, well, those words don't matter.
But, David Letterman makes a poor joke about one of the kids that SHE pimps better than Tyrone does his best $10 HO, and suddenly, the world's about to end.
G-M-A-F-B.
Some political genius made this point earlier this year:
http://ta-nehisicoates.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/01/sarah_palin_1.php
"Sarah Palin is represents a certain type of Republican that is proudly ignorant. I don't believe she is stupid. I don't believe George W Bush is stupid.
I do believe that they believe that "belief" is enough. Why let any facts get in the way of all those thoughts you are having.
She's a dumbed down version of Richard Nixon with his sense of class resentment and deceit, yet none of the brains. As Kissinger said about Nixon, and I hope Hitchens doesn't read this thread, "Can you imagine what he could have accomplished if he had been loved."
I think of her as Nixon with tits, a ridiculous accent, and 30 fewer IQ points."
You forgot to mention one other similarity, that she is married to G. Gordon Liddy. TP sits in her office and plots against her enemies.
Letterman excels at the "Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, look at those people over there", as a way to play to underground cultural stereotypes. Hence the references to Palin and the stewardess wardrobe as well as a star f*cker daughter...white trash, get it?
But that sword can cut both ways and give license to other humor like "Malia and Sasha turning tricks in the Lincoln bedroom ... you know how those people are". Can't have one without the other.
BTW, I ultimately believe Letterman did this to boost ratings. After 10 years of getting hammered by Leno, Dave must know Conan has a better demographic and will beat the ratings cr@p out of him.
Sure, it can cut both ways but you seem to have some juvenile equivalence insinuated in your argument, i.e. "If YOU guys can go after Palin's kid, then OUR side can go after the Obama kids."
One, Letterman isnt a credentialed member of the Democratic leadership, he's a talk show host. So you're not cutting both ways with the sword there.
Two, I find it interesting the retort isnt going after Letterman's kids; the argument leap-frogs Letterman and goes right after Malia and Sasha. Which to me is the ultimate punk move--why not address the original offender?
Three, you CAN have one without the other. GOP folks went after Chelsea as the love-child of two lesbians, and there wasnt some movement to bash the Bush girls as slutty drunk party girls from 'the other side' to speak in a poor generality. The fact that there is a one-upmanship at work where ANY target from "the other side" is considered satisfactory payback...that's a gang mentality, and we need to stop accepting gang behavior from the two political parties we are stuck with in this country.
Four, if you find one bit of 'humor' objectionable, you shouldn't be passive-aggressively wishing for a counterbalancing example: "Just wait till people call Malia a crack ho, we'll see if you find it funny then! Remember: Letterman got this started, so dont complain..."
You assume I'm on Palin's 'side'. Didn't vote for her, glad she's not VP.
However I find child rape jokes almost as disturbing as seemingly otherwise liberal minded people dismissing such jokes due to hatred of the target.
But that sword can cut both ways and give license to other humor like "Malia and Sasha turning tricks in the Lincoln bedroom ... you know how those people are". Can't have one without the other.
Except that Bristol Palin is a teenage single mother whose pregnancy was for whatever reasons a matter of national interest for a couple months. The whole reason the joke works is because she actually did get knocked up. There is no other here because neither of Obama's kids had a baby during the god damned election. And quite honestly, the dumb shit that Bristol has to put up with is nothing compared to what would have been slung at an Obama daughter in the same position. Now I don't envy Bristol's situation and I think it's kind of a dick move to keep making her the butt of these jokes, but come on--there is no equivalency here.
How can the sword cut both ways? Palin's daughter actually opened her legs and did the deed and ended up pregnant. What have BO's daughters done? Where is the license for humor when they haven't done anything? Sarah and her daughter both got knocked up out of wedlock by athletes, so Letterman's comments were bang on. If BO's daughters do the same, then game on. Until then, be quiet ...
It is well established that one can go after one's own, in regard to stereotypes. Dave's from Indiana, loves NASCAR, considers himself a lowbrow with few talents other than being a smartass. He makes his living off of the ridiculous. Nobody ever complained about his associations with Teri Garr, Harvey Pekar, Larry Bud Melman, etc in regard to 'advancing negative stereotypes'. "Stupid Human Tricks" is a popular segment; doesn't advance any positive human qualities. His most popular interviews tend to be the ones that go very badly, such as the one with Joaquin Phoenix. None of this, in the end, speaks ill for a man who is a satirist by trade. It's what he does. The Palin jokes were a standard swipe at an American celebrity - BRISTOL - with a lamentable but wholly satirical social demerit. Which is why she was paired up with other de-merited celebrities in the jokes. That is all. White trash? try just another ridiculous citizen in an endless parade of ridiculous citizens.
To turn this into advocacy of 'child rape' is grievously disingenuous. You won't get me to believe that anyone genuinely believes that Letterman was talking about Willow. And I don't think you're dealing straight with us.
First, you think lowly of McCain for nominating her. But what do you think of the 60 million people who voted for McCain-Palin?
Second, she attacked Letterman for being 62 years old, as if this is a terrible thing. Wasn't her running mate older? Is she an ageist or merely a selective ageist?
Also, she said that Letterman joked about an athlete having sex with her 14 year old daughter, but in fact it was her 17 year old daughter who got "knocked up" by an athlete (Mr. Sex-on-Skates). Oh, and also herself, getting pregnant from Todd the snow machine racer before her wedding. So Letterman's joke was hardly removed from reality.
Her only retort is to dig at Letterman's age. She can't fault him for his comments about the reproduction strategies of her and her daughter, so she attacks his age. This is funny since most of her base is comprised of older white Americans like Letterman. Populist backwoodswomen like Sarah and her supporters give democracy a really bad name.
... tenacious possession of a small mind.
That's golden.