My mother hated Billie Jean. I was seven when this joint came out, and whenever it came on the radio she'd look at me really hard and say, "If you did it with her boy, it is your son." One of the reasons I'm so blunt and open here is because that's really how I came up. Moms did not play. Plus Mike had a nose-job and a curl.
But this joint was hot. I've been banging this album a lot lately, and have concluded that it is, arguably, the greatest pop culture achievement in history. Just my humble opinion. The album is so great that joints that would be highlights on other albums, are just seen as filler on Thriller. "Baby Be Mine" is incredible.
I remember when this came out, and all the kids who'd been lucky enough to stay up and see Friday Night Videos came to school bragging about it. You couldn't get cable in Baltimore back then. Fools were like, "Yo, every time he took a step the stones would glow! And then when he went invisible the stones kept glowing!!" We thought Mike could save us all. We hadn't heard BDP yet.
I chose this instead of the old joint because it makes me sad. Mike used to be beautiful. My sister Kelly just knew she was marrying him. And he danced so smooth and easy. I hate to think that what gave him that ability, was the same thing that ruined him. I remember watching this a few years back and thinking, "Goddamn, he's still got it. Amazing." Watch the end when he murders em b-boy style.
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
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You know, I always thought Prince was the better dancer. The Little Red Corvette video just kills.
You know, Thriller is clearly unassailably awesome, but good Lord "The Girl is Mine" is embarrassing on about a million different levels.
I always much preferred another McCartney/Jackson duo, "Say Say Say."
You can keep them both, and also "Ebony and Ivory". Macca just kind of never stopped embarrassing himself in the 80's, I guess.
I agree, the video was one of the more non-synsical acid trippy videos of the 80's
I always wondered if that and "Karma Chameleon" were set in the same old-time, mysteriously black- and gay-friendly universe.
Especially if you had the vinyl, with the MJ-drawn image of Paul and MJ doing, IIRC, a tug-of-war over the girl.
Aww damn, I remember when he introduced the world to the moonwalk on that Motown show. I did not see it live, past my bedtime. But the next day, a friend of my grandpa, who was a country as all get out, was trying to explain the move. He was beside himself, and did not do it justice in his attempts to mimic it. I think I saw it for the first time on the Making of Thriller tape I must have watched some 300 times. Classic. But with all things Michael these days, now I'm sad...
I gotta say though, I wore out the needle on Wanna Be Startin Something, and Human Nature back then.
Have to agree with Judson - same artist, different album. Brilliant as 1999 is, Purple Rain kicks Thriller's ass without breaking a sweat. If Purple Rain isn't the best pop/rock album of the 80s, it's certainly in the top 5.
I agree from a quality standpoint, but if we're talking impact I think TNC is right. If I'm not mistaken Thriller is the first R&B album to achieve the kind of mega sales normally associated with Dark Side of the Moon, Rumours, Frampton Comes Alive and Hotel California
I think its sold more albums than anything but The Eagles Greatest Hits if I'm not mistaken. Although, I've never met anyone who admits they own the Eagles Greatest Hits.
It's also important to note that MTV didn't really play black artists before Michael because they didn't think "white kids in Iowa" (their words) would be into it. That's a big racial "whoops"
I think I own the Eagles Greatest Hits but I would have to go through my CDs to know for sure. I definitely own Hotel California.
I own the Eagles Greatest Hits and I'll proudly admit it. Hell I own Frampton Comes Alive, ABBA Gold and Neil Diamond's greatest hits too. Sure I like Hendrix, Neil Young or the Who better, and like any refined music lover I like The Faces better than Rod Stewart solo or Humble Pie better than Frampton and Gram Parson's better than the Eagles.
I'll put my musical taste up against anyone's, I own dozens of Miles Davis albums (even the complete multi disk Jack Johnson set) I have Big Star, Nick Drake, Terry Reid, and all kinds of obscure stuff few have heard of
I think part of growing up is being willing to admit you like some stuff that isn't hip or cool and some of that pop stuff is just plain enjoyable to listen to sometimes.
no worries Erika and Liza, I was just saying I'd never met anyone that admitted it. Personally I'm really struggling with the concept of "taste" right now, so I think it's good to like whatever you want and screw anyone who makes fun of you.
Personally, I'm a diehard Pearl Jam and Smashing Pumpkins fan who has become intrigued by Lady Gaga. Hence, the struggle haha
I'm pretty sure Off The Wall, his first solo, sold about as many as those other albums did. In terms of quality, to me, Off The Wall is my favorite album of his. But I gotta say, Prince vs Michael is a debate I just don't have the energy for, I lived it in the 80's...I don't have the fight in me no more...
I really feel you on both posts, man. I was too young to see the Motown special. And yeah, I'm so tired of debating Michael vs. Prince. What is this. 86? It's so much worse than Big v. Pac.
I don't think so, Off the Wall was a hit and all but in a more conventional way, comes out and sells a ton for a year or two, but when you talk about Thriller, Dark Side of the Moon, Rumours and so on your talking about a stratosphere that very few albums have reached. In the last 25 years your talking Thriller a Madonna album or two, Born in the USA and a few others, it is a very rare thing
TNC,
Yeah it is like the Stones vs The Beatles arguments that people had in the 60s.
Why can't I like them both?
eric K-
I did a quick wiki search out of curiosity, and Off The Wall has sold 20 million albums worldwide as of '05, and is 7 x's platinum here in the states. Your right, not quite Rumors or The Eagles, but 20 million worldwide and still counting is pretty snazzy.
Wow that surprises me, I knew it was a hit, so yeah it belongs in the mix of albums that perennially sell as well.
I wonder how much of it was Thriller causing people to go back and give it a listen?
Yeah, I like 'em both. I don't care if they want me to choose! ::waves arm with a zillion neon plastic bracelets in the air::
My mom has the Eagles' Greatest Hits, and I like it. I own Off the Wall and Thriller on vinyl. I should dust 'em off.
I thought he claimed in Billy Jean not to have done it with her?
I remember an interview with Quincy Jones where he described meeting Jackson when Jackson wanted to go solo, and how much talent he had in his little finger, so young....and then he became this sad sad man, all-too-scarily spoofed in the Men in Black movies.
I also remember my bio teacher describing going into the record store at the height of Thriller and asking the clerk "My son wants this album by...um...Michael Jackson? Is that something you have?"
I think I can see where TNC's mom is coming from, especially given the circumstances of his family that he has described so often. Her POV is if you are involved with a woman then you are taking responsibility for her whole situation. Basically the same as Cuba Gooding telling Jerry McGuire that you don't play around with a single mom, everything to her has more consequence.
He claims the kid is not her son, but it's unclear in the lyrics if he slept with her (it sounds like he did, though). In the video there are two distinct shapes in the bed. Maybe he used a condom?
It's really tragic. Probably mental illness + years of child abuse.
I was born in 86 and there's a video of me somewhere in my parents house, I`m a toddler, in a tub, and my Dad asks, who is my favorite rock star, and I say "Michael Jackson! I`m bad I`m bad!" Little did I know how bad Michael really was.
Agree with Deborah. Isn't the refrain "Billie Jean is not my lover." Wasn't that repeated like 9 times?
Ugh. This is like going to the club and pointing at some girl and shouting "You're dancing wrong!"
It was a young mother making her point to her seven year old son. If you consider the context of the times (80s. Baltimore. Lot's of dudes claiming not to be fathers) than it makes sense. This isn't math. We're not debating 1 plus 1 equals two.
I get it Ta-Nehisi, and wasn't trying to insult your mom or second guess her parenting methods. Not sure where my sarcastic tone came from. Time to head home from work, I guess.
Lawl. You talking about my momma!!!
Seriously, though. It's the end of the day and I'm crabby. Been dealing with god damn commenters all day! So it's as much me as you.
I saw an ad for a Britney Spears tour in the NY Times last week, and there she is decked out Michael Jackson style in one of those drum major jackets of his, kind of like something out of the Nutcracker Suite Ballet--with cleavage. Of course the Beatles did it with the Sgt. Pepper lp, but they were joking.
But insofar as Michael Jackson's dancing goes, of course he owes something to James Brown, but also one of the greatest pop stars from the soul music era, Jackie Wilson, and whatever talent MJ brought to the table, he never created one "Higher and Higher," or one "Lonely Teardrops."
"whatever talent MJ brought to the table, he never created one "Higher and Higher," or one "Lonely Teardrops."
I tried my damndest to not take this bait, alas I couldn't. Jackie Wilson was greatness, no doubt, but What?!?!?!? MJ never created What?!?!?!?!? Whether it was the many hits that were created by his talent in The Jackson 5 in the 60's, any number of #1 hits from his multi-platinum Off The Wall, The 80's have been covered in this post and don't forget Bad which had a few number 1's on it. Hell even Black and White was as big a hit chart wise as Billie Jean in the 90's. I think there is a little revisionist history going here, with a touch of "good ole day syndrome".
Let's take this up tomorrow. I'm actually interested in a debate about where Mike stands on the soul/R&B continuum.
Ok, but to clarify, I'm not saying MJ didn't have bigger hits, just that he didn't have better songs (nor voice even in the category).
Ok I will refrain until tomorrow, I will not make a snarky comment about Jackie's voice, and its resemblance to Kermit the Frog. Nor will I snidely point out how and 8 year old Mike voice was unlike any the world had seen up to that point...tomorrow it is.
I will say that there is no doubt that Jackie could kick Mike's ass(and mine for that matter).
I saw the Motown Moondance on tv and it changed everything. High school became so much better as a result of MJ and his two albums Off the Wall and Thriller. Everyone loved Billie Jean.
God could he move, but to me it also shows how he became showtime Mike, going down the slippery path to entertainment rather than...I don't know. He's not singing the song for the most part on this clip...he's dancing. Basically lip-synching to playback. Like a drag queen even though it's his music, his singing. A musical drama, with the singing falling to the wayside.
I don't much appreciate his later albums. I saw him on tv performing live somewhere well after Thriller: his singing became a pathetic series of growling and grunting. The dancing had more crotch grabbery, and less other moves. He was becoming his own caricature in front of our very eyes.
Saddening now, but for a while - electrifying!
TNC: "I've been banging this album a lot lately, and have concluded that it is, arguably, the greatest pop culture achievement in history."
It really holds up more than 25 years later; I've always loved the production on it. Put on your favorite track while focusing on one instrument or instrument group (e.g. the guitar in "P.Y.T." or the horns in "Thriller") -- and listen with headphones. You'll always catch things that you'd never previously noticed. The craftsmanship is as good as it gets.
Quincy Jones is just so damn awesome. The guy knew all the right people to hire in L.A. (and, of course, they all wanted to play on any of his projects), and he had the genius to not only call Eddie Van Halen but really make the most of him by giving him the perfect vehicle and getting out of the way. Eddie said that when he went to play the session, all Quincy told him to do was "just be yourself."
Q is a guy who knows how to get the most out of the people working for him, which makes him such a great producer. None of this is to take away from MJ's songwriting or performance on the album -- I just think that the subtlety and the layers of complexity within each song aren't talked about enough.
I think producers make such a difference. Music is so collaborative at its heart, and I think in recorded music having a maestro put it together can just make gold.
Same as live music, even stuffy old classical concerts. Yeah, the notes were written down a couple centuries ago, but just playing the right notes isn't music. Too many performances of 'the classics' are kind of paint-by-numbers, which is a shame, because it drains the life out of the music
[Not sure if anyone's still reading, but here goes:]
I agree in principle that "playing the right notes isn't music," and that classical concerts can suffer from a "paint-by-numbers" syndrome.
But I have to say that the best concert I've ever attended in my life--of any musical genre--was a performance of Mahler's Ninth Symphony by the Cleveland Orchestra, conducted by Christoph von Dohnanyi. This was 10 years ago. From the first note to the last it was awesome. And I mean that literally: awe-inspiring.
This concert was a result of the same type of top-notch collaboration we hear on Thriller. Von Dohnanyi was absolutely adored by that orchestra, then as now made of some of the best musicians in the world. Those players would have jumped off a cliff for him.
*That* is what made the music so strong that night in 1999 -- the musicians' energy, their mutual trust, their shared commitment to the work of art. Good music, whether Mahler or MJ, has that strong human connection at its foundation.
The bass line made you wanna listen to "Billie Jean" but the video made all the difference.
Man, does this take me back. I remember a bunch of us walking home from sixth grade in the spring of '83 and oooh-ing and ahhh-ing about "Beat It" hitting #1 on the charts and talking about the general awesomeness of the song but Eddie Van Halen's guitar solo in particular.
And then the album got played.to.death. and ruined it for a lot of us until, oh, about 2000. Still, it is a pop masterpiece. Ah, happy memories!
Wow I was a huge Michael Jackson and Prince fan fan! I would always avoid the "whose better" arguments cause I couldn't choose. I can listen to Off the Wall and Thriller and still get chills to this day! Such an amazing talent. The words gifted and innovative are thrown around so much these days when describing artist but Michael Jackson, and Prince embodied that spirit. Thriller was a fantastic album and it is such a shame to see what has happened to him over the years; just tragic.
and I don't know if you take requests but I just wanna throw this out there. Could you possibly do an all girl group such as En Vogue in Echoes of a Bubblegum age? The impact that those ladies had on the R&B scene was major at the time. I remember when I first saw the "Hold On" video.....they were so classy they had style, and they could truly sang! Girl groups are not what they used to be....
I just can't do it. I can't bring myself to listen to a single Michael song anymore. His jams come on, I change the channel. I loved him, I was a #1 fan, I came up on the Jackson 5, wanted to be the 6th. But that was then. Chris Rock said it all best and so I won't repeat.
Me too, and it is so very sad. I had the Off the Wall poster on my bedroom wall and worshiped him for years. Now I can not separate freak from song.
Off the Wall and The Jackson 5 were MJ at his best. I was glued to their sat am cartoon show. Thriller brought the pop in and I thought Prince kept it more soulful. My opinion. Though MJ is more iconic in an Elvis way.
Yeah for me it was Fat Albert, The Jackson 5, and Soul Train.I think in my neck of the woods it came on on Sundays, leading up to gametime. Man what a two hr block of greatness that was...
You know what I'd love to see? Not gonna lie - Justin Timberlake dancing with Mike on Billie Jean, especially since JLake's said that he copped so many of his moves from him.
As for Thriller - I'm with you, TNC; monumental pop achievement
THanks for posting this. It's also good to know the full impact the song had around the world. My favorite cover of the song, perhaps one of my favorite covers of any song is the great Brazilian singer genius Caetano Veloso's take of it when he merged it with the Brazilian tune Nega Maluca. There's a great youtube video of him performing it and the track is a total joy piece. Just transforms what's already a great song into another level. No dancing tho.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7-Dw2Mw9Pc
TNC, you made me a little weepy with your "I chose this one instead of the original because it's so sad. Michael used to be beautiful."
Indeed he was. The video of his that gets me sharpest is actually "Rock With You." It's so simple, you know: just Michael dancing in the middle of a tinselly mandala, smiling happily as he sings, with his beautiful skin and his beautiful news and his beautiful hair. For the life of me I will never understand why that face wasn't good enough for him.
I'm just a couple of months younger than he is (than Madonna, too), and when I see what he's become--what he MADE OF HIMSELF--I find my own decline from '80s sexiness a lot easier to bear.
I'll be staying tuned for that Where-is-Michael-on-the-soul-continuum discussion, too--that should be fun.
He seems so happy and relaxed, doesn't he?
And-- as I said to Deborah above-- honestly, I'm not sure how much of it he did to himself, and how much abuse and mental illness did to him. I mean, I know he was rich enough to afford a team of therapists, but if you don't realize you need them and no one around you can point it out...I don't know.
Good points, Persia--indeed, I can't know how much his circumstances drove his decisions. It's so painful to imagine--looking at that happy and relaxed young man--that so much unhappiness was under the surface.
I also can't believe I wrote "beautiful news" for "beautiful nose." I must have been hella tireder than I thought!
If it's any consolation, I didn't notice!
Check out this link and you will never think of Michael Jackson the same way again. OK. Probably an exaggeration, but it kind of blew my mind when I first saw it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUlEBhGgEe0
Ah, Bob Fosse as the Snake in "The Little Prince." Nice!
A few years ago a work colleague told me he'd seen this film, and that Fosse's snake moves seemed a clear precedent for Michael Jackson's style. So I watched for the movie on TCM and finally saw it, and I have to agree.
Fosse had something of a signature with hat manipulation, too--not just in this routine.
I find it easy to believe that MJ would have had a jones for a film called "The Little Prince."
Watching this video, re-reminded me just how excellent and smooth a dancer MJ was (and probably still is) -- his body flowed like liquip. Incredicle.
It also gave me the chance to see who most of the younger R&B so-called singers and dancers -- Usher and Chris Brown, to name only two-- very obviously stole their dance acts from.
Regarding the MJ vs. Prince debate, both, IMO, are awesome, awesome talents, each bringing something different to the musical arena: Michael: his electrifying performances (you often can't take your eyes off of him when he's performancing). Prince: his diverse musical talents -- he plays practically every instrument -- and creative songwriting ability. Also, his vocal range is stellar -- he can go from alto to baritone in a second flat. Admittedly, Prince has always been my favorite, especially after MJ started getting so weird, but I give both them their due.
And they hit different parts of the psyche, or at least they did in the 80s. Michael felt like the guy you'd take home to your mom; Prince was the guy you'd sneak around with and hope your mom didn't find out.
For me MJ was always oddly asexual. So, while I enjoyed him as a performer, I never had a crush on him, or wanted to bring him home to Mom. Price, however, always excuded this overtly sexual engery -- an energy that both women and men (even straight) were attracted to -- and he was the one that I always fantazied about dating. As Jamie Fox joked, I would have turned "straight" for Prince -- still would.
Love it! Thriller was the first album I owned.
I wasn't trying to start a debate or argument. If you like both, cool enough. And I would agree that from a sales and impact POV, Thriller certainly wins over Purple Rain (or 1999). IMNSHO, though, the Prince albums have aged better and simply are better than Jackson's work.
MJ and Prince are hugely talented individuals. We know. But I think Prince wins the debate based on the fact that Jamie Foxx said that when he saw Prince at a party he turned "gay for like 2 seconds." Prince has that kind of effect on people.
Flipside, MJ is the Fred Astaire of Pop. Nobody beats those moves, not even Usher.
Prince exists in a kind of universe of his own making that I think most people would like to visit if just for a short amount of time. (unlike Jackson, did anyone else see the Bashir interview in full?) I think he has a kind of divine pervert thing going on that is very different from other artists. I think if Prince had emerged earlier as an artist and was not black, he would be more regarded by rock critics on the same level as the Beatles, Bob Dylan, and the Stones.
My opinion is that Billie Jean might be the greatest single mega-pop song ever. I can never get over how great a tune it is, nor can I get over how great both Off The Wall and Thriller are. When you talk about talent, Michael and Prince are in that same rarefied air as James Brown, Stevie Wonder, Marvin Gaye. The dancing especially has always been just unbelievable, and hugely influential. It's tragic what has happened to him, not just because we have lost his talent as an audience but also for how much he and those close to him have suffered.
Billie Jean was a kick-ass song because it had the hook, the beat and MJ sang it with intensity and vocal range. Mom may have over-analyzed the lyrics, but that's cool because some lyrics just do get under one's skin. Music and art are subjective like that. I understand Picasso but I'm not moved and I've no idea why.
Erik--ABBA? Please--you probably like vanilla syrup in your white milk, man.
Citizen E is spot on about Jackie Wilson. Even a watered-down Jackie Wilson on The Ed Sullivan Show danced rings around MJ. The true measure of a performer to me always was and always will be his/her live performances. I saw Michael at dodger Stadium and despite the pyrotechnics, was disappointed in the overall show, which was about 80 minutes at the most. That is why Bruce Springsteen smokes all of rockdom. Nobody else gives you 3 1/2 hours of well-produced sweat, and a band that is the musical equivalent of the Lakers' bench: each could be a solo act.
The Eagles? Great lyrics, ("Another Tequila Sunrise", "Peaceful, Easy Feeling," "Hotel California")good band, and they've improved over the years like most bands do, but in the 70s I saw them in concert twice, and I guantee you The Marshall Tucker Band, who opened for them, were far better. Same with Frampton. Yech! Robin Trower opened for him and he blew the roof open. One of the most underrated guitar players ever.Pink Floyd was amazing live, and I wasn't even a fan of theirs! I was probably one of only 100 people in the audience not luded out, either.
I mean, if you talk about rock, Erik, then mention rockers, not saccharine pop stars. REO, Bowie, The Stones, (still the best) Hendrix, (you ever play guitar with your teeth?) Stevie Ray Vaughn, Janis Joplin, The Allman Brothers, J Geils Band,Eric Clapton, Blind Faith, Cream, Fleetwood Mac, Edgar and Johnny Winter, Leslie West and Mountain--THAT is rock! Abba is residue. My mother and my mother-in-law both liked Neil Diamond. Don't tell me you have musical taste and then throw that us! It was Muzak, not music!
I left out Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers,and Dylan plugged in. Put that next to ABBA and neil Diamond. Uh Huh. Thought so.
Billie Jean was a kick-ass song because it had the hook, the beat and MJ sang it with intensity and vocal range. Mom may have over-analyzed the lyrics, but that's cool because some lyrics just do get under one's skin. Music and art are subjective like that. I understand Picasso but I'm not moved and I've no idea why.
Erik--ABBA? Please--you probably like vanilla syrup in your white milk, man.
Citizen E is spot on about Jackie Wilson. Even a watered-down Jackie Wilson on The Ed Sullivan Show danced rings around MJ. The true measure of a performer to me always was and always will be his/her live performances. I saw Michael at dodger Stadium and despite the pyrotechnics, was disappointed in the overall show, which was about 80 minutes at the most. That is why Bruce Springsteen smokes all of rockdom. Nobody else gives you 3 1/2 hours of well-produced sweat, and a band that is the musical equivalent of the Lakers' bench: each could be a solo act.
The Eagles? Great lyrics, ("Another Tequila Sunrise", "Peaceful, Easy Feeling," "Hotel California")good band, and they've improved over the years like most bands do, but in the 70s I saw them in concert twice, and I guarantee you The Marshall Tucker Band, who opened for them, were far better. Same with Frampton. Yech! Robin Trower opened for him and he blew the roof open. One of the most underrated guitar players ever. Pink Floyd was amazing live, and I wasn't even a fan of theirs! I was probably one of only 100 people in the audience not luded out, either.
I mean, if you talk about rock, Erik, then mention rockers, not saccharine pop stars. REO, Bowie, The Stones, (still the best) Hendrix, (you ever play guitar with your teeth?) Stevie Ray Vaughn, Janis Joplin, The Allman Brothers, J Geils Band, Eric Clapton, Blind Faith, Cream, CSNY,("Southern Man") Fleetwood Mac, Edgar and Johnny Winter, Leslie West and Mountain--THAT is rock! Abba is residue. My mother and my mother-in-law both liked Neil Diamond. Don't tell me you have musical taste and then throw that us! It was Muzak, not music!