Cole: I heard that the gold tooth was Michael Bay's idea, but do you have any response to those who found The Twins offensive?
Orci: Number one, we sympathize. Yes, the gold tooth was not in the script, that's true.
Kurtzman: It's really hard for us to sit here and try to justify it.I think that would be very foolish, and if someone wants to be offended by it, it's their right. We were very surprised when we saw it, too, and it's a choice that was made. If anything, it just shows you that we don't control every aspect of the movie.
Cole: Were you offended by them?
Kurtzman: I wasn't thrilled. I certainly wasn't thrilled.
Orci: Yeah, same reaction. I'm not easily offended, but when I saw it, I thought, 'Someone's gonna write about that.'"
The Beautiful Struggle: A Father, Two Sons, and an Unlikely Road to Manhood 
Lots of passive voice in there, no doubt because they want to keep working and know if they toss blame where it goes, they'll have a hard time finding it.
But they still stand by the rest of that garbage-fest? The lack of cohesive thought in that movie is infinitely more offensive than some sophomoric stab at cheap laughs.
Ok, calming down.
You can make that claim about at least 70% of what gets released in any given year (and 99% of what gets on SyFy). And the driving force behind this movie was Michael Bay, who has never made a movie worth watching so far as I can tell. Side note: I love this bit that Cracked did on him--they hate Bay even more than I do.
That link made my day! Thank you.
Ditto. Really wasn't expecting to laugh, had trouble not alerting others.
I can't remember the last time I read something that made me laugh so hard that I had to shut my door so I didn't have to keep it to just a chuckle. That link was awesome.
As if it isn't bad enough to have "writer for a Michael Bay movie" on your resume, now they want to become "disgruntled writer for a Michael Bay movie"?
You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.....
You need to understand something basic to writers in Hollywood. You don't get meetings with execs or writing jobs based on any sort of integrity or artistic merit. You get meetings and jobs based on how much money your movies have made, particularly your last movie (and other factors that have nothing to do with writing talent).
"if someone wants to be offended by it, it's their right."
I'm so sick of people saying this.
If they wrote it, and didn't like how it turned out, then apologize, if not for being offensive, then for not editing. Explicitly apologize. If they wrote it, and saw it, and liked it, then don't apologize to anyone. If they didn't write it, then they should say they are offended by it; although they are probably worried about their careers. Whatever, stand up for what you believe in.
But this weird, half-assed, we sorta wrote it, we're sorta offended, we sorta apologize stuff is just a waste of time.
There's usually a lot of editing done in major Hollywood movies that is not done by the original writers. I suspect that's especially true of Michael Bay movies and their ilk. I don't know how much the original writers put in there, but it's possible most of the racism was post-their original draft.
Having said that, there's no reason not to say "We didn't realize the finished product would be offensive, and we're sorry." Except of course that that's what grown-ups do.
I understand that a lot of editing is done by people other than the writer, but, if the original characters were not very minstrel-like, they didnt already have the "ghetto flava" who thought it was a good to inject that? If these writers really cared about whether people thought their content was racist or not, they would say A. The Studio B. The Actors or C. Bay decided these characters needed to have racial overtones pumped up for maximum humor. They cant even seem to communicate what exactly they "werent thrilled" about or why it is hurtful or how that differs from their true intent.
They could've brought in someone to 'punch up' the dialogue who brought in much, if not all, of the minstrel stuff. Happens all the time. And if they want to get hired again, they're probably not in a place where they can speak out about it.
I'm not suggesting they're innocent. The whole business is rotten, and they could well have put it into the original treatment. But they didn't necessarily do it. (This American Life recently had an interview with the host of "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" about how his first screenplay had somehow become Dirty Dancing: Havana Nights. Check it out sometime, it's funny as hell.)
How writing credits get assigned is a complex topic all on its own.
John Rogers (Kung Fu Monkey Blogger) Once noted that he is credited as a screenwriter on Catwoman, all that was left of his original script in the final film was 1 line of dialogue
The whole business is rotten . . .
The one saving grace of the movie biz, the one thing that keeps it from being the deepest of cesspools is that at least it's not the music biz.
Marcos, the difference between the movie biz and the music biz is that in the movie industry, people make crap knowing it's crap, but knowing that there's money to be made in crap. A lot of people in the industry are creating works that they themselves wouldn't consume.
But in the music industry, they really seem to believe that their crap isn't crap. I'm not sure which is worse.
There's a reason there's a joke that goes, "did you hear about the starlet who was so dumb, she slept with the writer?" Writers are in a horrible position in Hollywood. If they got a reputation as people who condemned the films they had just worked for, they'd never work again (unless they were among the few with "f-u" power, and they aren't.) They had to be guarded, even in their mea culpa.
The people who are most responsible for this crap are the producer and the director, and, to a lesser extent, the voice talent. The writers come in after them. Then, society and 500 years of history. Plus, the Transformers always sucked and I never got this nostalgia for them, anyway. (There! I said it!)
One of my favorite jokes about the powerlessness of the writer goes like this:
A writer arrives home one day to find that his house is on fire. The fire department is already there, but it's pretty much already been burned to the ground. As he gets out of his car, he is intercepted by a neighbor, who prevents him from running onto the scene.
Writer: What happened? My God, what happened? Where's my family?
Neighbor: Please, you need to sit down. About an hour ago, your agent showed up. Apparently he murdered your wife and children with a butcher knife. He murdered your dog, too. Then he dragged their corpses out on to the lawn and began having sex with them. Afterwards, he doused everything with gasoline, lit it on fire, and drove of laughing.
Writer: What? My agent came to my house? I don't believe it!
Dan:
The Player remains the best documentary about the power dynamics in Hollywood. Basically, "we sorta wrote it" is an honest assessment of what they probably contributed. Stand up for what you believe in is impossible for most working screenwriters to acheive or even imagine -- they are the poster children for "Learned Helplessness".
True and furthermore they dont wanna speak out against it in too strong of terms at the risk of being blackballed all over Hollywood.
Guys, I know we're all pretty cynical here, but I'm a little bothered by how easily we're dismissing this. Especially considering Megan Fox famously had no problem dissing Michael Bay.
Just to be clear, I understand everyone's argument for why not to speak out, and I understand that the characters may not have been portrayed as they were written. But just to clarify, my main problem with the answers they gave is the qualification of "if anyone was offended." It's probably my biggest pet peeve, so maybe it just hit me at a personal level. I just think it's weak.
Guy said he's not easily offended, but could see how some people might be. Said, "sorry if you were." I don't think that's quite the same as the usual passive-aggressive bit.
They'll continue to make movies, big ones. Including the upcoming Viewmaster movie, based on the toy. I shit you not.
As for Michael Bay, I can hardly tolerate his stuff. The Rock has its moments, although it indulges in gay minstrelsy with the hairdresser, and the first Bad Boys was an OK diversion. I'm fascinated by Armageddon, however. It is by no means a good movie. It doesn't even approach good in any sense. Bay's movies are "visual," in the sense that they're all about exploiting effects and tricks, but they're not "visually stunning." And yet I'm riveted when I watch it. It's like made the movie I always joked about making in my cynical, know-it-all high school days: one constructed completely of filmic cliches. It's all climax, all cheesy dialogue, all absurd. I think Michael Bay hates his audience.
The best comment on the minstrelbots was given by MightyGodKing:
http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2009/06/29/it-could-have-been-worse/
Thanks for that. I put it on my Facebook page, after I finished laughing.
The fact is, any writer of a script has no control over what actually ends up on the screen. That's just how the process works. In addition, for a big production like Transformers, there are many hands that work on the script, more than are credited. These two guys probably shouldn't be held accountable for the racism and it's unusual that they would speak up.
By the way, if you haven't seen it, this montage gives you a flavor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F694uhu72WY
Generally speaking, directors and producers are more responsible for the final product in feature films, whereas writers tend to hold more sway on television.
Not that these guys don't suck, but the onus falls on Michael Bay.
Close. In TV, show creators and show runners tend to have more power than writers. Writers tend to be staff positions, although the head writer might also be a producer. But even the show creators and runners are under the thumb of the networks and the execs.
These guys have shown more aptitude for tap dancing than writing.
Linoleum beat me to what I was going to say. Feature films belong to the director much more than to the screenwriters; when the "actors" are CGI robots, all the more so. This should all be on Michael Bay.
Except that I don't think that Orci and Kurtzmann; they're pretty thoughtful guys, and good craftsmen.
http://johnaugust.com/archives/2009/trek-writer
Let's have a pool: Out of the many hundreds of studio employees, actors, technicians, producers, writers, actors, photographers, flacks etc., how many Black people were involved in the making of this movie? Craft services and extras not included.
Perhaps Tyler Perry's people were involved.
Good for them if they were, but I doubt it. Say what you will about Tyler Perry's productions (which btw are no better or worse than Hollywood "B" and "C" movies or tv shows through the ages) but at least Black actors, technicians, producers etc. are getting work.
Well one of the voiceover actors was a Black man; what a shame.
Im thinking Hollywood Shuffle needs a remake.
Yes, and he said he improvised much of the content.
Thus giving Michael Bay the tired "he's Black and he was comfortable saying the lines, why is it a problem?"
Keep in mind that these guys also wrote the new Star Trek movie, which was a smart, solid action picture. Hollywood credit is a very strange thing.
This is a fight I've been waging over at DC Comics for decades.
They wrote a history of (...wait for it) "gang activity" into my story so that joining the Teen Titans could my second chance, my Philly to Bel Air moment.
It's part of why I'm running for mayor of DC. No more Transformer Twins. No more Jar Jar Binks. Not on my watch.
Forward,
Cyborg
www.cyborgformayor.com
I'm a writer in Hollywood, not successful yet, and certainly not anything like Kurtzman and Orci, who, racist or not, are having an incredible year. And who, Transformers or not, are actually really good writers. They also wrote the new 'Star Trek', which was awesome, probably because JJ Abrahms directed it instead of Michael Bay. I cut these guys some slack because I've actually met them, and they are quite nice, and they work their asses off. I really don't think it's their fault that Transformers sucked or was racist.
There are a ton of people here who are calling them out for being wishy-washy in their apology, but try to remember one thing: For all intents and purposes, Michael Bay was standing in that room while they were speaking. That's what happens in the movie business, is that Michael Bay and his army of agents and managers and lawyers really do track everything that is said about his movie, especially by people who worked on the movie. And it really is true that if they had flat-out called the movie racist, their ability to get future work would be seriously hampered, and they would lose millions of dollars in future income. So what people are really saying, is that Kurtzman and Orci should have thrown their livelihoods away to make a point about something it was too late to change anyway. I don't think anybody on this thread would do the same. I know I wouldn't. Besides, read the quotes again, and what they really think is pretty obvious. They didn't like the changes, they think people are right to be offended, and they weren't thrilled, which in Hollywood-speak means "I nearly vomited when I saw it". Maybe I'm just jaded and cynical, but frankly I was surprised they were willing to comment at all when asked that directly. They must have felt REALLY strongly about it to be willing to do that.
OGwiseman, as a former direct report to Micheal Ovitz during his pinnacle of influence in showbiz at CAA, I think you are exactly right. Big ($) Hollywood movies possibly have more corporate oversight than ever. Even the "studio system" of the 30's, and 40's was run by relatively few folks. Today, first weekend gross is paramount (excuse the pun) and taking a "risk" as it is defined by the numbers crunchers, on any level, is a deal breaker. The entertainment business model is way different. "Show biz" has to support a way more expensive business. Folks still want to make pots of cash but there are fewer folks who need (or want) to make good movies while doing so.
That said, many of the best movies ever made ("Casablanca"} and the worst (can't remember 'em) were written (at least in part) by many uncredited writers. "The Player" is a great example of where the movie biz still is today, but i go back to "Sunset Blvd" as one of the best writer's laments (How do i love thee, Billy Wilder, let me count the ways. ) Today, except for a very few writers, most can and should take the money and run. I do not slam the "Transformers 2" writers, first because I am going to wait until I can see the flick on my sunk cost big tv and paid tv but mostly because I hope they remember this experience if and when they get big enough to go "Homey the Clown" on these MF's and say "I don't think so."
Well put, both of you.
One nit, though anna. You weren't putting down crafty in your previous comment (about how the number of black people employed by the show), were you? As an under-the-line guy (retired), I always felt that crafty was the most underrated of departments, even more than sound. On one show (many years ago), a very smart UPM stopped us from organizing by upgrading crafty. I've seen unhappy talent mollified by crafty. Don't underestimate the power of food. It's one of the cheaper ways that producers can show that they at least pretend to care.
Marcos, I never underestimate the power of food and I've eaten a few craft services meals in my time. It's just that the few times I've visited film sets, often the only people of color I saw were "craftys." Now, that's a good thing, mind you. I just wish other jobs were available as well.
So I know this is tangential to the immediate topic, but someone brought up the question two days ago about how a white writer could write characters of color convincingly (I'm behind on my TNC reading). I just wanted to point out two books (both sci fi) that had black main characters that I thought were written very well: Forever Peace by Joe Haldeman and Beggars and Choosers by Nancy Kress. In both of these books, I think the writers were able to show the characters as black but also multi-dimensional, neither whitewashed or reduced to stereotype.
Particularly in Forever Peace, the main character's race and his relationship with a white woman were part of the story, and I thought Haldeman was really able to show the black character's awareness of race in little, everyday interactions without it being overplayed. In most books I've read where a white writer writes a black character there is usually a moment(s) where I'll read something (usually about race or race relations) and think: "uhm, that's not how most any black person would see the situation". I really didn't have that moment in Forever Peace. It was eerie.
Anyway, the comment is "kinda" related to Transformers and the minstrelbots...