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Dragon-Age--Preliminary Thoughts

10 Nov 2009 11:00 am

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Someone asked, last week, about my favorites computer role-playing games, ones which I thought did a solid job of narrative.  Like all old people, I think everything great that ever happened in the world, happened when I was young. Thus I have a romantic attachment to the era of Might and Might II, the Bard's Tale series, and Ultima.  The Gold Box games are the pinnacle for me--I think Pool of Radiance might be the most incredible gaming experience I've ever had. It wasn't just the game, it was seeing actual D&D played out on screen. Before that, Ultima/Bard's Tale/M&M all felt like knock-offs of what we all knew we wanted--an elven Fighter-Magic User, a halfling thief, and dwarf fighter. Of course we're all knock-offs of Lord Of The Rings, so there.  A few other mentions of role-playing games from the 80s--Below The Root, Mobius and Legacy of the Ancients. Legacy was particularly well done.

The mid-late 90s crop are almost certainly better games--Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale are just stellar. I really wish they had made BG a trilogy. Might and Magic 6 and 7 are both  really underrated games--the sheer sprawl of the world, the number of options, are all overwhelming in a good way.  But the sad thing is that after I went to MMOs, I stopped playing single-player games, so there's a gap in my RPG experience. I'm actually deeply tempted to go back and play The Longest Journey, which is supposed to be just incredible.

All of this is a long way of saying I just started Dragon Age: Origins, and frankly, it's a miracle I'm here blogging right now and not hacking my way through Darkspawn. Oh who am I kidding, by the time you read this I will almost certainly be hacking my way through Darkspawn.  Seriously though, I haven't really had much time for WoW lately--work has been rather insane, so I've had to go back to the single-player joints. I find it easier to jump in, get my fix for 30 minutes, and then get back to work.


As a fan of Bioware, I've been waiting on Dragon's Age for a long-time now, and it really doesn't disappoint. It reminds me a lot of Oblivion, but better. I think Oblivion offers more options, in terms of customizing, but the game was just too big for me. It felt really lonely, and combat felt non-intuitive. The thing about Dragon's Age is you can actually see people doing cool shit--like ripostes etc.

My one beef with the game is the gore--it's way too much. Bioware was attempting to make a "mature" game. But mature can mean much more than guts and fucking, and you can tell the developers know this because DAO is actually mature in some of its themes. But the gore actually makes the game look less mature. It makes it feel like it was built for twelve year olds who want to feel like their doing something forbidden. In other words, the gore in DAO is mature in the way that Hustler is mature. I'm not arguing for no gore, and no blood. I love the realism. But in DAO it feels like the gore goes beyond what would actually happen. It feels cartoonish.

Back on story, It felt right to play the descendants of slaves (What can I say? Even when I'm role-playing, I'm hood.), so I picked an elf. I don't want to say too much about the game, but the sequence where you have to storm the castle and save your betrothed is really intense. I'll have more to say as I get further in. But for right now, color me impressed.

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Comments (74)

Which version you playing TNC? PC right?

I'm wondering if I should get for 360. I'm wavering, I'm not sure I'll like the controls for a game like DBO.

Erik Vanderhoff (Replying to: Geoff in DFW)

Hell yes you should get it for the 360. I forego sleep to play this game once the wife and baby crash for the night. It dominates my thoughts. Must... kill... darkspawn...

You micromanage your team a hell of a lot less on console, but Origins has some good battle planning systems so you can program teammates to not be total imbeciles

TNC, did you miss Fallout 1 and 2? Highly recommended if you don't mind them being a little slow at times. Good old games.com has a package of the two of them updated to run on modern hardware with no disc for $10--it's an absolute steal

Speaking of fond memories of older games, how much would you pay if someone had the ability to erase your memories so you could enjoy them for the first time again? I'd give my (nonexistant) firstborn to be able to play through my personal golden age (90's SNES: Final Fantasy 2 & 3, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound) again

Geoff in DFW (Replying to: Jack G)

God I loved Earthbound and Chrono Trigger. I still play Earthbound.

Some friends and I just started up Secret of Mana. Crappy storyline, but really a shame there haven't been more coop RPGs made, especially considering how popular that game was.

Shawn (Replying to: Jack G)

Fallout 1 & 2 were some of the most insanely fun RPGs ever made. I'd recommend that someone go find them today! Same with BG II. Solid stories and great atmosphere made all three of them standouts and I think that holds up even as technology advances.

From everything I have heard if you like Dragon Age you'll love Mass Effect which is very similar, but sci-fi instead of fantasy.

AMT (Replying to: JD)

Mass Effect is awesome. I've played through 2.5 times. The sequel is out in January.

I'm picking up DAO very soon.

Uncular1 (Replying to: JD)

I'll third that Mass Effect call, good story. But, honestly, it doesn't sound like you'll have any time (or need) for another RPG for some time.

However, I'll admit I was hoping your inner comic geek would've prodded you to try Champions Online for a bit.

Darkrose (Replying to: Uncular1)

How is CO? I'm invested enough in City of Heroes that I'm not likely to play it, but I am curious.

My first indication that it was going to be good, and that they had gotten certain things right, was when, as a city-elf, I spoke to a quartermaster who assumed that because I was an elf, I was the servant who had been sent to fetch him something. And when he realized that I wasn't, he was embarrassed and conciliatory rather than compounding his racism. More true to life than most games, where racism always signifies profound evil.

Yeah, I'm trying to convince my wife that I need to buy this game. It's by b-day today so maybe I'll have some luck or get some cash to do it. I stopped playing MMOs because of the time commitment, so I typically play single player role playing games. This is the first in a while to get me extremely excited. The Penny-Arcade comics on the game were really well done, and made the world seem a lot more complicated than a lot of in game worlds. At least from the comics it seems like the moral choices are going to have some nuance to them instead of "Kill a box of kittens" "Save a box of kittens and raise them as your own" type choices most games offer.

Strongly recommended - go back and find Wizardry 8.

Yes, Longest Journey is just simply incredible. Its sequel, Dreamfall, not so much. I imagine that with your penchant for narrative, Longest Journey's an easy fit. Few games are that immersive. Maybe the old Blade Runner PC game was in that mold. Oh Ultima, oh how long it's been *nostalgia*

I noticed you hadn't mentioned Planescape:Torment on your list of role-playing games. Granted, it never got big but it was the most complete RPG gaming experience I've ever had. You should check it out if you haven't already.

I highly recommend The Witcher as well. Similar themes to Dragon Age (a lot of it focused on racism), with a fantastic main character and a really strong narrative.

Lola (Replying to: W)

Hey, W, I tried The Witcher recently, and I didn't care for it. The characters fell flat and the story didn't grab me at all.

Part of the reason I've been avoiding Dragon Age is that no one can seem to mention it without the mentioning the Witcher in the same breath. I want to play DA, but I'm not sure I'll like it.

Loved Mass Effect, though, highly recommend.

Should I take a chance on DA?

You want old? I still play _MUDs_.

So you want to be a hero huh?

Like all old people, I think everything great that ever happened in the world, happened when I was young.

So does david brooks.

Seriously, I understand I still think the Games of the early to mid 90's were great all around, Quest For Glory, Betrayel at Krondor, Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy IV, (so much better when translated but good in the edition released here too) VII. So many awesome games. Moreover the 90's were a great time for High Fantasy. Tad Williams, J.V. Jones, Robert Jordan (may he rest in peace), Raymond E. Fiest. I stopped reading it after I discovered history but all around the decade was great for all forms of fantasy.

caleb (Replying to: Sorn)

Absence makes the heart go yonder.

into the past, as it were. Question: Lori Ann Cole or Roberta Williams? Who would you take to a desert island? :p

AMT (Replying to: Sorn)

The Riftwar Saga and the Serpentwar Saga were awesome. Feist has declined a bit lately.

Pick up Gardens of the Moon, A Game of Thrones and/or The Name of the Wind. You'll either thank me or track me down as your GPA plummets. Either way, you'll like the books.

Erik Vanderhoff (Replying to: AMT)

I totally second Steven Erikson's Gardens of the Moon. But more importantly, stick with it and pick up the second Malazan Book of the Fallen, Deadhouse Gates, and prepare to have your socks rocked right off. This series is the high water mark of epic fantasy to date.

And eff George R.R. Martin and the gaily caparisoned horse he rode in on.

Erik Vanderhoff (Replying to: Erik Vanderhoff)

Doh, italics fail.

So this Malazan series is worth it eh? A friend who knows how much I love Steve Erickson (the surrealist author that keeps getting blurbed by Pynchon without ever breaking through) gave me Memories of Ice. She didn't think it had anything to do with Thomas Jefferson or San Francisco like the other Erickson. Neither did I judging from the cover. Then I realized it said Steven Erikson, not Steve Erickson, and then we both felt awkward. I suppose I should read it instead of letting it languish in my pile.

Erik Vanderhoff (Replying to: Erik Vanderhoff)

@caleb:

Memories of Ice is the third book in the series and a superb example of epic fantasy. While you could read it as a standalone, the series makes way more sense if you read it in order. Steven Erikson is a former archaeologist and it shows in his work, which is rich and complex. It helps that it's the fruit of over 20 years of geeking out on Dungeons and Dragons to a level that even the Forgotten Realms folks never imagined. But Erikson has a true gift for not being buried in his own minutiae -- he built a world, and is sharing it with you, but he doesn't let the world get in the way of the story he wants to tell.

Odoacer (Replying to: Sorn)

Sierra! I really enjoyed those Quest games. Those along with the Phantasy Star series and the two Shining Force games for Sega Genesis took up way too many hours of my youth.

You need to check out Torchlight

http://www.torchlightgame.com/

The pet thing is pretty cool and the randomized dungeon tiles make for nearly limitless play.

Byrk (Replying to: KevDog)

I've been playing Torchlight as well, but it's an action RPG game and pretty light on the RPG. If you like Diablo then you'll like it and the game is only $20 right now for PC. I really like how the game looks though (same art style as Warcraft III) and that an older computer can easily run it. You don't necessarily need hyper realistic graphics with a good art team.

I also like how every class gets a pet, and you can send your pet back with bags full of loot to sell while you continue hacking away in the dungeon.

KevDog (Replying to: Byrk)

What I like about it is that you can have a quick little rampage or something more involved and lengthy. Nice, fluent, game design and a lot of bang for the $20.

Loved Baldur's Gate and BGII, not too wild about Neverwinter Nights. I preferred the 6-character party to the pair or gang of 4 setup. When this comes out on Mac, I'll definitely get it.

BTW, when your main character dies in a fight, do they really die, or do they just lie down, stunned, until the battle is over?

This game is soooo good. They took all the really great parts of the Baldur's Gate series, and married it to a more modern combat system, with health regen after battles, and a cooldown system for using special abilities and magic. The combat system is just great, and I'm appreciating the high level of difficulty.

TNC, you can turn off the persistent gore in the options menu. Cutscenes are much less distracting if your character isn't always covered in blood.

DarthAlbert III

Persistent gore can be turned off from the Options menu. FYI, your line about not wanting to spoil the game contains what I consider a major spoiler :P Good article though.

Re: good storylines:

I think a difference can be drawn between a game that is immersive and gives you plenty of side quests, and a game with a truly great story arc that carries you throughout the entire game. I think often we confuse the two.

A good example's Oblivion. I thought the overall story arc was anemic, and I was inundated with side-quests that, while intriguing, really hampered things for me. It seemed the developers spent more time filling up the world with middling shit to do than really work on the story.

Fallout 3 fixed that a bit, but even then the main story arc seemed ill-formed compared to the world around it. It seems as though developers trade for expansive and immersive worlds over detailed and interrelated storylines that weave about the world they've created.

I'm not sure if that's DBO, but detailed arcs are something I'd like to see. Part of the problem (I would guess) with weaving an intricate storyline is it requires you put the game on rails , and a large part of the appeal of games like Fallout and Oblivion were their sandbox styles.

Dragon Age has what you are looking for. Strong overarching narrative, but the different main sidequests are long and have well-defined narratives, and the choices you make in these sidequests drastically changes the main narrative. It's really well done.

Darth Thulhu (Replying to: W)

Yeah that's a signature of quality from Bioware. Never mind needing to do good party and evil party, you also need to try out each romance and main-char sidequest. I'm still replaying Shadows of Amn and throne of Bhaal to this day, and itching to redo Mass Effect.

I'm playing on a PS3 and the interface works very well. The first thing I did was turn off the "Persistent Gore" in the options menu. It was much better after that.

So far I'm enjoying the game a lot ... I'm surprised how well relationships are done ... its much more than getting someone in the sack and there are plenty of repercussions for your actions.

There can be no discussion of GOAT narrative-driven RPGs without discussing Chronotrigger, and more importantly, Final Fantasy III. FF 3's plot and character development have been and will continue to be better and more interesting than 9 out of every 10 movies released by Hollywood, SNES graphics be damned.

GregSanders (Replying to: Jim)

Do you mean Final Fantasy VI, which was released in North America as Final Fantasy III initially?

Not trying to nitpick, I just don't remember the Japanese FF3 being that amazing plot and character-wise and was wondering if I missed something. If you mean FF6, I quite agree.

Yep, I definitely meant FF6, as it was originally titled. I still throw that up on the ol' emulator every now and again.

GregSanders (Replying to: Jim)

I actually was late to that game. I never had a console as a kid. Sadly I haven't finished yet because I lost my frigging DS. That said, I enjoyed it enough that I plan to go through it again, assuming my wife is willing to trust me with the cartridge. :P

trefingers (Replying to: Jim)

Second. I turned plenty of non-RPG friends onto RPGs back in day just by giving them FF3 and telling them to have at it.

Anybody besides me playing Demon's Souls? Not much story, but boy do I love the challenge. I haven't been so careful and focused playing a game since the NES days.

I'm going to have to differ on the folks giving it up to Bethesda though. I loved Morrowind, but Oblivion and Fallout 3 are without souls. You feel like you're skating over the game world, rather than a living, breathing part of it. They sacraficed quality for quantity. If you liked Oblivion, try Morrowind; you won't be disappointed, and I think you'll see where I'm coming from.

trefingers (Replying to: trefingers)

Haha, addendum: FF3 in US, FF6 in Japan.

GregSanders (Replying to: trefingers)

I think there are definitely locations and characters in Fallout that have real souls, although being a DC-metro area native is part of that. That said, I can see where you're coming from if you're talking about the whole game world at once.

My fondest gaming memory of the last year is mowing down slavers around the Lincoln Memorial with the Battle Hymn of the Republic playing on Enclave radio. I actually normally try to take relatively non-violent paths through most RPG game worlds, I made an exception for that one. :P

trefingers (Replying to: GregSanders)

Wouldn't you know it? I used to live in the District myself. I live in western MD now. I won't deny the chills I got popping out of the metro stop at Chevy Chase and seeing all in ruin, or the Mall with trenches but that's more of what I bring to the experience than the experience itself. Fallout just didn't feel like a complete world to me; 1 and 2 sure did. But 3 felt like it traded more in surrealism than in any engrossing experience. Just one man's opinion; I still played it through to its conclusion, but I was non-violent. The slavers still got it their's though, I couldn't let them slide ;-)

GregSanders (Replying to: GregSanders)

trefingers:

I won't deny the chills I got popping out of the metro stop at Chevy Chase and seeing all in ruin, or the Mall with trenches but that's more of what I bring to the experience than the experience itself. Fallout just didn't feel like a complete world to me; 1 and 2 sure did. But 3 felt like it traded more in surrealism than in any engrossing experience.

I respect that. I tend to appreciate it when games give me the opportunity to bring things to the experience. As another example, I think that many of my favorite levels in Mirror's Edge were those that actually let me play around in familiar settings rather than rooftops, sewers, or construction sites. (Last level took me forever to beat, but I loved it for itself). However, familiarity isn't the same as successful world building, the two can be a bit askance.

In any event, the most disappointing level for me was the Museum of Technology which quite failed to grasp the appeal of air and space. I think the problem was that they needed much bigger rooms and instead used the standard template for two level big rooms. By comparison, I think the Natural History museum knock-off did a good job. There may have been some sort of technical limitation on the museum of technology, but it just didn't work for me.

Oblivion, Fallout 3 & Mass Effect are some of the most sprawling, enthralling RPG --heck Life-- experiences you can have period. The size and scope of stories coupled with the thrill of taking part in the dynamics of realms that were previously restricted to the mediums of novels, movies and TV, make gaming the premier way I entertain myself.
I can't wait to play Dragon Age, I just have to vanquish the dreaded beast of Canada Post-Parcel-Delays first : )

I'm really torn about this game. I have to admit that the visuals I've seen really turn me off - they look dated and like there's just a bunch of gore for gore's sake.

Still, I downloaded the character creator and messed with it a bit, and it was moderately intriguing. I'm thinking when it hits $30-40ish I'll check it out. Gotta save up for a 360 now - I'm so behind the times.

Second on MM6 and MM7. Those games still rank among my all-time faves.

Yeah, the gore is so omnipresent as to be comical. I've spent basically the entire game covered in blood splatters, which, while probably some what accurate as to how you'd look after spending your day hacking through Darkspawn, is pretty distracting and silly. I don't mind the fountains of blood when you kill somebody, but I would definitely appreciate an option to turn off the "covered in blood" effect.

Otherwise the game is completely awesome. Love it.

EddieC (Replying to: J.W. Hamner)

There IS an option to turn it off, in the option menu. Which I did. Really distracting to do lovey dovey romance conversations while both you and the person you're flirting with are covered in blood spatters.

J.W. Hamner (Replying to: EddieC)

Oh, that's cool. I'll have to see if I like that better. Score another one for the power of the internets.

26 hours in 5 days on this. Home from work. Couch. Game. Sleep. Man its addictive.

My PC won't run it, so I'm playing on Xbox 360, and the combat is a wee bit hectic. I'm told on PC you can zoom the camera out and make the combat more BG-ish? I'd like to be able to have more of a battlefield overview and a more tactical approach, which is lacking on the console.

Minor quibble though. Very, very good game. Has Bioware ever put out a bad RPG? I wasn't a huge fan of IWD, but it was a good dungeon hack, and the BG games, KOTOR, Jade empire, and Mass Effect are all great. Maybe NWN is their weakest, but even that was pretty good.

EddieC (Replying to: EddieC)

I should also say that, although their romance parts are not a core part of the gameplay, I appreciate that, given that most of their games have romances, Bioware usually puts at least one same-sex option. Its nice to be able to see people like yourself in a game.

Darkrose (Replying to: EddieC)

Is there a same-sex romance option in Dragon Age? My problem with Bioware has long been that they'll hint at girl/girl, but the only way to do male/male stuff in BG2 and NWN was via hacks. Someone called Dave Gaider on it on the NWN forums, and he said that they didn't do any gay male stuff because the male players wanted to see the hot bi babes, but the women weren't interested in the male equivalent. Apparently he'd never heard of slash, or yaoi.

EddieC (Replying to: Darkrose)

Yes, I've found one m/m, and I've seen various rumours that there might be another.

Not entirely unprecedented from Bioware, there was an m/m option in Jade Empire as well.

Hmmm. I may have to check this out. I've been a Bioware fan since Baldur's Gate, and while I like Aion, I'm not crazy about PvP aspect of it. A non-MMO really suits my antisocial nature best.

So is the Collector's Edition extra content worth the money?

You don't get a huge amount, but for the Xbox version at least its only like 5 bucks more. Semi-interesting making of docs, a few unique pieces of equipment (of varying usefulness), including one you can transfer to Mass Effect 2 when it comes out. I've heard the PC Collectors' Edition has more stuff than that, though.

Two things really sold me on this game as I was playing it.

BioWare's always been really good at character interaction, but this was the first game I've played in a long time in which I felt they realistically reacted to what I did. Try to talk to Morrigan about something private or personal while you're walking through the marketplace or dungeon or whatnot, and she'll actually get pissed at you and cut off the conversation because she doesn't think it's appropriate to talk about that sort of thing in public. Deviate from your main quest too many times to improve some barmaid's self-esteem, and Sten will call you out on it.

Second, though the combat is exceptional and very fun, it's nice to have some downtime once in a while -- you know, to take a break from the murder-or-be-murdered dynamic. Dragon Age actually gives you a camp where you can chill out and chat with your buds, and encourages you to step back every now and then and spend some significant time there.

I've never been into computer RPGs all that much; my tastes tend to run more toward adventure games. (Also, I've only in the last couple of weeks gotten a computer that's current enough to let me play anything new.) My childhood faves were the Infocom games, and Lode Runner-type puzzle-solving games. Lately I've played a bunch of Telltale Games stuff (descended from the old LucasArts adventure style) and some of the Travellers Tales Lego games (Indiana Jones and Batman).

The one major timesink game I let myself get into is on indefinite hiatus at the moment, and that's Myst Online: Uru Live. I was a big fan of Myst and Riven (not so much of the non-Cyan sequels).

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